Am I the only one that thinks the States going broke is worse than losing less than 1% of the population?

[b2bailey]

As a practical manner which of your 100 friends and relatives are you willing to have die in order to "save the economy". That's what you are proposing. That's what 1% means. I've already given my 1 person but I'm not ready to give more.

JohnPaul, when I wrote my words of praise above, I almost added another sentence, which would have said:
Now...who is going to be the one to spoil it.

 

[JohnPaul]

It may spoil things by being accurate. It's all about "other people" dying.

 

[TravelTime]

There is a solution, kind of a compromise. Older people and those at risk could continue to quarantine while younger people and those at less risk and those who simply do not care about getting sick and possibly dying could resume life. It is not an either/or proposition. The countries that have been most successful have not had mass lockdowns. We can protect the vulnerable with a compromise. With the US approach, we have all lost.

 

[b2bailey]

JohnPaul, also to you, I add. Which part of 'this is meant to be a safe place' do you not understand? Perhaps your perception is that every conversation is an invitation to debate?

 

[Ken555]

JohnPaul, also to you, I add. Which part of 'this is meant to be a safe place' do you not understand? Perhaps your perception is that every conversation is an invitation to debate?

What gave you the impression that TUG is a “safe place” to promote extreme unethical actions such as advocating for Americans to die? I’m simply amazed that some of you actually believe that the economy is more valuable than human life. I wonder how many of you are pro-life, too... /smh


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[Panina]

** I am going to add that I am so concerned by what is happening in IL that my mind has been tossing all day about scrambling to move this summer so that my daughter can properly finish HS in a different state. This is so out of character for me to even think this way - so it's an indication of how despondent I feel right now.

I actually think that is a good idea if you can find a job. I look at you being practical and there is nothing wrong with that. My state is on phase 2 now, SC. I am almost certain schools will be open.

 

[JohnPaul]

JohnPaul, also to you, I add. Which part of 'this is meant to be a safe place' do you not understand? Perhaps your perception is that every conversation is an invitation to debate?

I think you miss the point. Its not a "safe place" to suggest one in every hundred people should die which was the premise of this post. To point that out is totally reasonable and not "unsafe".

 

[b2bailey]

I'm going to make one more comment. I appreciate hearing what others are thinking in our current situation. Lately it seems to require a certain amount of courage just to say: "This is what I am thinking, or this is how I feel." Some times I know exactly what I think about a certain situation -- some times I'm on the fence. Having input from a person sometimes helps me form an opinion. Just recently, I said to my daughter " I don't know what to think. " (about another topic)

When I hear an opinion, I can ponder different aspects of a topic. When I hear shaming it only tells me it may not be a safe place to express myself.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I would give up the last 10 year of my life for my family in a heart beat. The whole of having a family is to be your legacy. You live on through them. This virus mainly only kills people in their last 10 years of life. Isn't that the trade off of dying one day? Being able to have children and help them grow up?

 

[cbyrne1174]

I'm not worried about school reopening. It's the budget that will be an issue. Florida, for example, pays for education with sales tax. No tourism, no teachers.

 

[Miss Marty]

Am I the only one that thinks the States going broke is worse than losing less than 1% of the population? ( US Death Toll 76,513 +)

I really think shutting down for 2 months was the most amount of time that we could possibly give without have HUGE economical repercussions. I know the argument that we can get an economy back, but not a person. The thing that I feel that a lot of people aren't seeing is exactly what it means when the state doesn't have any more money. I'm a teacher so I see first hand where that money goes. I also see how much everyone sucks at math. I have maybe 15 parents out of 150 that can help their kid out with Algebra 1 with the schools closed and that's middle school!

Most of my salary comes from Florida's sales tax and tourism. Florida doesn't have a state income tax. I just got a letter from my union that even though the budget was approved for schools for next year, they are going to have to modify it in response to COVID meaning jobs will be cut. Kids struggle enough as it is when schools are fully open with a class size of 25. If they cut positions and raise the class sizes to 30-40 kids, these kids are going to learn maybe 60% of what they normally would with the level of distraction that having that many kids in 1 class would cause. I see maybe 30% of the population of kids being on grade level because of educated parents and the kids that don't have individual help at home will fall further behind. I don't mean to sound hateful towards older and at risk people, but kids and education take priority over grandma and if we stay closed much longer we won't be able to keep all of our teachers, firefighters and police officers, which are ESSENTIAL and employed by the state.

We need a balance!

Parents strive to make kid's lives better before they come in this world, however
some parents are unable to provide for their children by assisting with education.

Kids and Education should not take priority over grandma and grandpa!
Never.. Should the young or old be sacrificed for Kids and Education. .

 

[CO skier]

As a practical manner which of your 100 friends and relatives are you willing to have die in order to "save the economy". That's what you are proposing. That's what 1% means. I've already given my 1 person but I'm not ready to give more.

This is the false narrative that many politicians bought into -- and Sweden did not. Shutdowns and mask orders do not "save millions of lives"; it just delays the inevitable while creating additional deaths from other causes -- domestic abuse, suicide, others that do not make national news -- and other hardships such as unemployment, elderly dying alone from natural causes while the nursing home is "locked-out to visitors" to name a couple of examples.

 

[b2bailey]

I have Math 6-12, Biology, Chemistry and Elementary on my teaching certificate and for the first time ever, I'm somewhat worried about my employment. I might go take Physics just to be safe, but I'd have to memorize like 30 formulas and they all look like this:
View attachment 20333

Looks like Greek to me.

 

[Ken555]

I'm going to make one more comment. I appreciate hearing what others are thinking in our current situation. Lately it seems to require a certain amount of courage just to say: "This is what I am thinking, or this is how I feel." Some times I know exactly what I think about a certain situation -- some times I'm on the fence. Having input from a person sometimes helps me form an opinion. Just recently, I said to my daughter " I don't know what to think. " (about another topic)

When I hear an opinion, I can ponder different aspects of a topic. When I hear shaming it only tells me it may not be a safe place to express myself.

I absolutely agree. It is important to have an open mind and be receptive to new evidence and ideas. Sadly, two earlier posts were definitive in their statements that nothing that we write would impact their opinions. How does that fit with your thoughts on this thread and TUG?


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[Cornell]

@cbyrne1174 I wish you were one of my child’s teachers. And I mean that a high compliment ... bc her teachers have a big , important role in her life .

 

[TravelTime]

Am I the only one who would give up my own life to live and help other people live? I had a really horrific childhood. I will not go into it here. I learned from my childhood that some things are worse than death. I have always thought I would rather have a good life on earth and die young than live in misery. I used to think I would not live past 30. I am now 54 so I have overstayed my welcome on earth. Many people are living in misery now. I can‘t complain myself since my life is still okay but I read about all the human misery resulting from Covid.

 

[LannyPC]

...it just delays the inevitable while creating additional deaths from other causes -- domestic abuse, suicide, others that do not make national news -- and other hardships such as unemployment, elderly dying alone from natural causes while the nursing home is "locked-out to visitors" to name a couple of examples.

That's something I was kind of wondering about. Are there any stats or reports of deaths caused by the lock down and its aftereffects?

 

[LannyPC]

but I read about all the human misery resulting from Covid.

Is the misery the sicknesses and death or the many aftereffects of the lock down?

 

[TravelTime]

That's something I was kind of wondering about. Are there any stats or reports of deaths caused by the lock down and its aftereffects?

I have read about some new models that are starting to take into account how many lives are really saved by the lockdowns vs how many people will perish because of the lockdowns. This does not take into account that many people will simply live in misery.

 

[b2bailey]

I absolutely agree. It is important to have an open mind and be receptive to new evidence and ideas. Sadly, two earlier posts were definitive in their statements that nothing that we write would impact their opinions. How does that fit with your thoughts on this thread and TUG?


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I'm comfortable when a person states their opinion and is not open to discuss further. I'm not okay when somebody else tells that other person they are wrong to hold that opinion. There are several remarks on this thread that would be okay if the belief was stated independently and not as a rebuttal or challenge. When I earlier wrote my comment of praise, it was because I had been able to read through the remarks without having a sense of distress.

 

[TravelTime]

Is the misery the sicknesses and death or the many aftereffects of the lock down?

The sickness and death goes without saying that is it bad. I am also thinking of the millions of people living in misery (not me) due to the aftereffects of the lockdown. As this goes on, I am hearing more and more about the human misery from the aftereffects of the lockdowns. I suspect people will become even more vocal with time. I am having to deal with complaints from my employees that they do not like working from home, they are upset about the decline in income and how hard it is to work from home and take care of kids. They are lucky that they still have jobs and income and I am matching their income for the next 8 weeks. However, many people have it much worse off. If my healthy staff is complaining, imagine the people who are really suffering.

 

[VacationForever]

There is a solution, kind of a compromise. Older people and those at risk could continue to quarantine while younger people and those at less risk and those who simply do not care about getting sick and possibly dying could resume life. It is not an either/or proposition. The countries that have been most successful have not had mass lockdowns. We can protect the vulnerable with a compromise. With the US approach, we have all lost.

I agree. I will stay home until "Stage 5" as mentioned by Cornell. The lower risk folks should be able to resume life with some level of social distancing, maybe with a medical mask when in a crowded public place, like many countries in Asia had done after SARS.

 

[b2bailey]

8 years. I'm 30.

Just want to acknowledge your youth on this Board and welcome you.

 

[cbyrne1174]

Just want to acknowledge your youth on this Board and welcome you.

I bought a timeshare before a house ...resale of course!

 

[LannyPC]

...how many people will perish because of the lockdowns.

Those would be interesting statistics assuming they are accurate and unbiased. I just wonder how such reported deaths can honestly be attributed to the lock downs. For instance (and this is just for argument's sake) was there someone who, God forbid, committed suicide because (s)he couldn't pay his/her bills after losing his/her job or business due to the lock down (or something along those lines)? I guess we'll have to wait and see.