Am I about to get ripped off and what, if anything, should I do?

[Fido Chuckwagon]

So he called me last night and left a voicemail (I missed the call), that indicated I should just go forward, and they would go forward with he deal. I’m still not sure what I’m going to do.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I'm kinda curious how the owner knew who the buyer was. Usually these companies obtain a POA and just do everything without the owner knowing what is going on.

I think this resale “company” (which I don’t think is the same outfit that actually scammed him, but it’s hard to telll) doesn’t know what the hell it’s doing. I’m pretty sure they sent him the same contract they sent me which has my and my wife’s name and address. I tested a quick google search using that information and my cell phone number popped right up.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

The buyer only signs a deed if there is an assumption.

And now this part is really making my alarm bells go off.

 

[5finny]

At the end of the day you are still probably ok.
I just bought a Hawaii property and was asked to sign the deed
Today I probably would have pushed back-then I just signed
Given this thread I checked the Hawaii land records and verified to my satisfaction that there was no mortgage

Online Services

Subscription Services Transition The Bureau of Conveyances launched its new data subscription services. If you are a current subscriber of Online Bulk Image, Online Indexed Document Search and Download System […]

dlnr.hawaii.gov

Probably sellers just using a form

That said life is to short
This is causing you more concern than it is worth
I would just walk

Good luck

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

So I have an update, and there is a plot twist, and now I’m not sure what to do:

Last week this eBay reseller finally sent me a “Vacation Plan Ownership Deed” with a page that I as the buyer need to have signed and notarized. I’ve never needed to do this before as the buyer and think it is strange (and I’ve purchased Bali Hai before) but don’t think much of it and was going to have it notarized this week.

Today, I get a phone call from an unknown number and answer it. The person on the other end asks me if I just purchased a timeshare and I’m about to hang up on them thinking it’s spam, but don’t. The person identifies himself as the seller of the contract (Bali Hai 64k). He wanted to know how much I paid for it because the outfit selling it (apparently working for a timeshare exit scam company) charged him $10,000 upfront and told him they would pay him back out of the proceeds of the eventual sale. I told him I was so sorry, that I had paid approximately $200 for it on eBay, and that if he went on eBay he would find that most Wyndham contracts of that size sold in that general range, maybe plus or minus a few hundred dollars. I told him I was so sorry he was taken for $10,000, and of course if he wanted to back out of the deal I understood (I figured I’m only in for $200 and maybe I can make an eBay claim against the seller and if not, it’s $200). I mentioned both TUG and Certified Exit as additional resources he might want to check out.

He starts asking me questions about how he gets it transferred to me and how he can finally stop paying maintenance fees, and I explain the transfer timeline, how best case scenario is probably that the transfer goes through sometime in November and he stops paying maintenance fees then. He then asks (and this is where I’m getting spooked) “Well what if I just stop paying maintenance fees now?” I explain that if he stops paying maintenance fees after the deed is recorded but before Wyndham process the transfer then we are both going to end up stuck, with me having title and Wyndham refusing to transfer it out of his name until he gets current. I again offer to just cancel the deal and possibly eat the $200 and he indicates he needs to talk to his wife and get back to me, but asks me not to send in the notarized contract and that he will get back to me in a week.

I am now thinking that this is not worth this aggravation. I’m thinking of either calling him back and just strongly suggesting that he contact Wyndham Certified Exit and we both back out of this deal. I do not trust this reseller at all not to **** this up with his weird paperwork and delays, and I don’t fully trust this seller not to just stop paying the maintenance fees, and I wish I had never bid on this auction. I have plenty of other contracts at this point. I don’t know if this guy will get out of this any faster with certified exit than he will with consummating this sale, but this whole thing has me nervous.

Thoughts?

So I have an update. This ended up working out and the contract ended up in my account last month. Title was clear, no other issues. Still feel bad that this guy got taken by an exit company for $10k, but I guess he did end up getting out from under it by them selling it to me for $200, so at least he doesn’t have to pay maintenance fees on something he wasn’t using anymore. Too bad he didn’t call Wyndham first since he could have been directed to certified exit.

 

[5finny]

Glad it worked out.
Unfortunately you wound up having far more than $200 invested in this

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Glad it worked out.
Unfortunately you wound up having far more than $200 invested in this

What do you mean? I still only paid $200.

 

[5finny]

$200 in money
$??? in time and effort
Real owner should be pleased you were willing to put yourself through what had to an ordeal --certainly doesn't mean real owner should be pleased with the exit company

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

$200 in money
$??? in time and effort
Real owner should be pleased you were willing to put yourself through what had to an ordeal --certainly doesn't mean real owner should be pleased with the exit company

Ah, yes, I see what you mean, it was definitely stressful for me and tons of money for the real owner.

 

[chapjim]

Ah, yes, I see what you mean, it was definitely stressful for me and tons of money for the real owner.

I'm still a bit puzzled by the phone call from the previous owner. I don't recall ever seeing that happen here on TUG. My first reaction was that the previous owner was trying to put the touch on you for a portion of the $10,000 he paid. (I know how that would have gone!)

Glad it worked out!

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I'm still a bit puzzled by the phone call from the previous owner. I don't recall ever seeing that happen here on TUG. My first reaction was that the previous owner was trying to put the touch on you for a portion of the $10,000 he paid. (I know how that would have gone!)

Glad it worked out!

My sense in talking to him was that he was being honest. He legitimately wanted to know how much I paid because he expected a huge payday from the exit company and was shocked that it was $200 (I offered to cancel the deal and basically just eat the $200 if he wanted). The $10,000 he paid the exit company was with the promise of it being sold for more than $10,000 I think….

I recognize none of that makes a lot of sense as far as what he thought was going to happen or how exactly he got taken…

 

[chapjim]

My sense in talking to him was that he was being honest. He legitimately wanted to know how much I paid because he expected a huge payday from the exit company and was shocked that it was $200 (I offered to cancel the deal and basically just eat the $200 if he wanted). The $10,000 he paid the exit company was with the promise of it being sold for more than $10,000 I think….

I recognize none of that makes a lot of sense as far as what he thought was going to happen or how exactly he got taken…

Wow! The whoppers just keep on coming!

 

[Sandi Bo]

My sense in talking to him was that he was being honest. He legitimately wanted to know how much I paid because he expected a huge payday from the exit company and was shocked that it was $200 (I offered to cancel the deal and basically just eat the $200 if he wanted). The $10,000 he paid the exit company was with the promise of it being sold for more than $10,000 I think….

I recognize none of that makes a lot of sense as far as what he thought was going to happen or how exactly he got taken…

Well... that is the 'never pay an upfront fee' drum that TUG beats and beats and beats. I think this worked out exactly like many of us think it does with these 'post card' companies. The twist in your purchase is that the seller found a way to contact you directly and was able to discern what really happened to him. I imagine there is still a decent amount of people that are happy to be rid of their timeshare (at the $10K fee) never realizing the true ins and outs of the overall operation.

I am here because my Dad fell for a postcard companies pitch, my Dad had paid his fee on a credit card, I was able to have the transaction cancelled. It was at that time that I found TUG (and the rest is history ).

 

[vidx3m]

I think I read the requirements incorrectly. The buyer only signs a deed if there is an assumption. So in this case, as long as the timeshare is paid in full, then the buyer doesn't need to sign.

Hi there, I am very sorry to bother you. I was hoping you might be able to offer some help and clarity. I'm acquiring a Wyndham Bali Hai contract and the seller is suggesting that buyer's signature has to be notarized. I was under the impression that this is not the case. Others have mentioned that for Club Wyndham that the buyer needs to complete the docusign agreement.

However, I'm a bit confused as our seller is suggesting otherwise and saw your reply ' "The buyer only signs a deed if there is an assumption. So in this case, as long as the timeshare is paid in full, then the buyer doesn't need to sign."

I'm wondering if you can direct me to this information to confirm that the notarized signature is not required. The challenge for us is that we are Canadian buyers, and its not a simple case of getting a local notary, we would have to venture down the US Consulate office or cross the border in to the US and get a Notary there.

I really hope you could help me get clarity. Thank you.

 

[paxsarah]

Hi there, I am very sorry to bother you. I was hoping you might be able to offer some help and clarity. I'm acquiring a Wyndham Bali Hai contract and the seller is suggesting that buyer's signature has to be notarized. I was under the impression that this is not the case. Others have mentioned that for Club Wyndham that the buyer needs to complete the docusign agreement.

However, I'm a bit confused as our seller is suggesting otherwise and saw your reply ' "The buyer only signs a deed if there is an assumption. So in this case, as long as the timeshare is paid in full, then the buyer doesn't need to sign."

I'm wondering if you can direct me to this information to confirm that the notarized signature is not required. The challenge for us is that we are Canadian buyers, and its not a simple case of getting a local notary, we would have to venture down the US Consulate office or cross the border in to the US and get a Notary there.

I really hope you could help me get clarity. Thank you.

I don't know if there's anything written to point to, but I can say from personal experience that when I purchased a Bali Hai contract in 2023 I didn't have to have anything notarized. I'll also add that while there was a docusign, it was not with Club Wyndham but a purchase agreement with the company I purchased from. (As I understand it, there are docusigns directly with Club Wyndham when a Club Wyndham Access contract is transferred, which I've never done.) As a purchaser of resale deeds I don't think I've ever exchanged documents directly with Club Wyndham, nor had anything notarized. I have had deeds notarized when I was giving them away.

 

[vidx3m]

I don't know if there's anything written to point to, but I can say from personal experience that when I purchased a Bali Hai contract in 2023 I didn't have to have anything notarized. I'll also add that while there was a docusign, it was not with Club Wyndham but a purchase agreement with the company I purchased from. (As I understand it, there are docusigns directly with Club Wyndham when a Club Wyndham Access contract is transferred, which I've never done.) As a purchaser of resale deeds I don't think I've ever exchanged documents directly with Club Wyndham, nor had anything notarized. I have had deeds notarized when I was giving them away.

Thanks for the fast reply. This is interesting nuance. Why the difference when giving away and would the party receiving need to get their signatures notarized or just the party giving it away?

 

[rickandcindy23]

Thanks for the fast reply. This is interesting nuance. Why the difference when giving away and would the party receiving need to get their signatures notarized or just the party giving it away?

Yes, your signatures are required on the documentation for the Hawaii Bureau of Conveyances as a purchaser in Hawaii. I think this is my giveaway that he is referencing. I actually do know after a phone call to the Hawaii Bureau of Conveyances.

Why would you have a problem getting your signatures notarized?

We didn't have to get our signatures notarized originally, when we bought, but things changed @paxsarah in Hawaii. Of course, we haven't purchased anything since 2008. Hawaii requires this.

 

[paxsarah]

Thanks for the fast reply. This is interesting nuance. Why the difference when giving away and would the party receiving need to get their signatures notarized or just the party giving it away?

As the grantor, the jurisdiction recording the deed surely wants to see verification that the person who owns the real estate (which in most cases presumably has actual value, unlike a timeshare) is truly signing this over to someone else, hence the notarization. But in my experience, when I've been the grantee I've never had to (I can't say there aren't jurisdictions that might require it, but never when I've purchased a timeshare deed.)

 

[paxsarah]

Yes, your signatures are required on the documentation for the Hawaii Bureau of Conveyances as a purchaser in Hawaii. I think this is my giveaway that he is referencing. I actually do know after a phone call to the Hawaii Bureau of Conveyances.

Why would you have a problem getting your signatures notarized?

As Canadians they either need to go to the US consulate or cross to the US and use a US notary. They can't just go to the local UPS store.

We didn't have to get our signatures notarized originally, when we bought, but things changed @paxsarah in Hawaii. Of course, we haven't purchased anything since 2008. Hawaii requires this.

I guess they must have changed it in the last 18 months, because when we purchased Bali Hai in September 2023 I didn't have to sign a deed or have one notarized.

 

[vidx3m]

As Canadians they either need to go to the US consulate or cross to the US and use a US notary. They can't just go to the local UPS store.


I guess they must have changed it in the last 18 months, because when we purchased Bali Hai in September 2023 I didn't have to sign a deed or have one notarized.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I purchased two Bali Hai resale deeds. The first one I did not have to get notarized. The second one I did.

 

[jbman]

We purchased two Bali Hai deeds and were told both times they needed to be notarized and we're Canadian, but we were able to use a virtual notary, so it wasn't too difficult.