Alleged Service Dogs at Desert Springs Villas

[noreenkate]

Owner trained service dogs (those that haven't undergone training with an accredited organisation) are generally not considered service dogs and are treated as pets

The reason they allow for owner trained service dogs is the cost-
Curious how the cost of an accredited service dog there vs US….

 

[hcarman]

We were at Westin Mission Hills a couple of years ago and there was a yapper in one of the units. It was obvious that the dog was left on it's own while the owners were out. Several of the guests came out to check and called the front desk, including ourselves. Security came out and identified the unit. The following morning everyone in the unit was gone, presumably expelled.

Gee - can we do that when we have children above us screaming and banging?

 

[hcarman]

Through various articles and ADA rule readings over the years, I found the following interesting:

1. If a person needs a service animal, it needs to be with them continuously. That is, they can't go out to dinner and leave the dog on the deck or alone in the unit.
2. If a dog is causing a nuisance like barking (without reason/performing a service) or threatening people, the owner can be directed to remove it from the property - - even if it IS an actual service dog.

Last year at Marriott Newport Coast, when we were out on the lanai, the dog from the adjacent unit would bark at us continuously. It was really annoying. The owners weren't doing much, if anything, to quiet the dog. We called security and when they knocked on the neighbor's door, the dog started barking at the door ferociously. So, much for the ruse of pretending to have a service animal. They were gone within the hour and the next day Marriott did a deep cleaning of their unit. That has got to be an expensive lesson.

Not sure this is always true anymore. We have a neighbor that uses a service dog for night time PTSD and anxiety. He is ex-military. Obviously he would not need to have the dog at dinner with him for performance of this task.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Not sure this is always true anymore. We have a neighbor that uses a service dog for night time PTSD and anxiety. He is ex-military. Obviously he would not need to have the dog at dinner with him for performance of this task.

I looked at the ADA website (https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/) and saw the following Q&A

"Q29. Are hotel guests allowed to leave their service animals in their hotel room when they leave the hotel?
A. No, the dog must be under the handler’s control at all times."

 

[sponger76]

Not sure this is always true anymore. We have a neighbor that uses a service dog for night time PTSD and anxiety. He is ex-military. Obviously he would not need to have the dog at dinner with him for performance of this task.

As a service member myself with multiple deployments resulting in PTSD, and also knowing MANY fellow service member with PTSD,it is never just a night-time thing, so that makes no sense.

 

[Pompey Family]

The reason they allow for owner trained service dogs is the cost-
Curious how the cost of an accredited service dog there vs US….

There was absolutely no cost to me for my service dog, all costs were covered by the organisation. Once she was acredited then all costs were taken up by me. Most of the organisations I know of in the US operate similarly. Of course almost all such organisations require proof of your disability prior to joining the programme. That in itself speaks volumes.

 

[noreenkate]

There was absolutely no cost to me for my service dog, all costs were covered by the organisation. Once she was acredited then all costs were taken up by me. Most of the organisations I know of in the US operate similarly. Of course almost all such organisations require proof of your disability prior to joining the programme. That in itself speaks volumes.

At the grandkids school here in TN they were fundraising for 3 years to help one of the students to cover the cost of her service dog it was nearly 40k

 

[Pompey Family]

At the grandkids school here in TN they were fundraising for 3 years to help one of the students to cover the cost of her service dog it was nearly 40k

That figure doesn't surprise me. Most of the organisations providing service dogs are charities. The training programme I undertook was 12 months long and was funded solely by charitable donations. The majority of the staff are volunteers and without them the charity couldn't operate. It does mean that inevitably some people who are in need of a service dog are unable to make it onto the programme simply due to financial and staffing constraints however the issue with training your own dog is that there is no way of ensuring that the dog has been trained to a proper standard. Organisations that have been accredited by Assistance Dogs International for example have demonstrated that their training methods meet the required standard. Most countries in Europe require a service dog to be formally accredited by certain organisations and usually they will not certify owner trained dogs and this means that there isn't a problem with people passing off their pets as service dogs.

 

[vol_90]

Another service dog story https://news.yahoo.com/news/lifestyle/passenger-furious-over-being-forced-215800864.html

 

[Pompey Family]

I don't know about the US airlines as I haven't flown with any for a long time but certainly UK airlines and some European ones that I've flown require you notify them at the time of booking your flight that you will be travelling with a service dog. That way it isn't a surprise when you turn up at the airport. BA's rules stipulate that a service dog can fly for free if it is able to sit at you feet, if it is too large to do so then an extra seat will be required for which there will be a fee.

Of course none of us can say whether the dog in the picture is a genuine service dog but I suspect most of us, myself included, would have our suspicions that it's not. Seeing service dogs on aircraft in Europe is such a rarity that there isn't that sense of suspicion that there is in the US.

I'm just glad I'm not living in the US with my service dog as I don't think I could handle the constant niggling thoughts that people might think you're dog is a faux service dog.

 

[Superchief]

I was in a bulkhead seat on a flight and sat next to an officer with a German Shepherd. The dog was returning from a school where he had been trained to sniff explosives. He quietly sat on the floor between us and I wasn't required to move. I don't understand why the animal would require a whole first class seat.

 

[noreenkate]

I don't know about the US airlines as I haven't flown with any for a long time but certainly UK airlines and some European ones that I've flown require you notify them at the time of booking your flight that you will be travelling with a service dog.

Trained Service Animals | Delta Air Lines

When flying on Delta, we welcome service and support animals in the aircraft cabin. When traveling with a service or support animal, we’re here to work with you to make sure your travel day runs smoothly. Visit delta.com to learn more.

www.delta.com

Department of Transportation regulations requiring forms for service dog air travel…
Here is the thing if this is not a service dog signing those for is a federal offense.

I don't understand why the animal would require a whole first class seat.

We don’t know from the article that the dogs handler had not purchased a 1st class ticket- only that the disgruntled passenger was given a last minute upgrade than downgraded.

 

[bazzap]

I don't know about the US airlines as I haven't flown with any for a long time but certainly UK airlines and some European ones that I've flown require you notify them at the time of booking your flight that you will be travelling with a service dog. That way it isn't a surprise when you turn up at the airport. BA's rules stipulate that a service dog can fly for free if it is able to sit at you feet, if it is too large to do so then an extra seat will be required for which there will be a fee.

Of course none of us can say whether the dog in the picture is a genuine service dog but I suspect most of us, myself included, would have our suspicions that it's not. Seeing service dogs on aircraft in Europe is such a rarity that there isn't that sense of suspicion that there is in the US.

I'm just glad I'm not living in the US with my service dog as I don't think I could handle the constant niggling thoughts that people might think you're dog is a faux service dog.

It is definitely very rare outside of the US.
We fly at least 12 times a year and have done for many many years mostly in Europe, Asia, Caribbean… with Easyjet, BA, Lufthansa, SwissAir, Qatar, Emirates, Malaysian Airlines, Thai Airways, Singapore Airlines… and we have still never seen a single Service Dog on any of these planes.

 

[Superchief]

Trained Service Animals | Delta Air Lines

When flying on Delta, we welcome service and support animals in the aircraft cabin. When traveling with a service or support animal, we’re here to work with you to make sure your travel day runs smoothly. Visit delta.com to learn more.

www.delta.com

Department of Transportation regulations requiring forms for service dog air travel…
Here is the thing if this is not a service dog signing those for is a federal offense.

We don’t know from the article that the dogs handler had not purchased a 1st class ticket- only that the disgruntled passenger was given a last minute upgrade than downgraded.

I highly doubt that the handler purchased two first class seats. I've observed several dogs of similar size laying on the floor in front of and between seats, while another passenger sat in the adjacent seat. The airline should ask the other passenger if they were willing to sit near the dog and be allowed to keep their seat if acceptable. In coach bulkhead seats, the middle seat could be blocked for the floor space, but it makes no sense to block a first class seat so the dog could lay on the floor.

My 90 lb pit would prefer to sit on my lap, so she wouldn't even need floor space or an additional seat.

 

[noreenkate]

I highly doubt that the handler purchased two first class seats. I've observed several dogs of similar size laying on the floor in front of and between seats, while another passenger sat in the adjacent seat. The airline should ask the other passenger if they were willing to sit near the dog and be allowed to keep their seat if acceptable. In coach bulkhead seats, the middle seat could be blocked for the floor space, but it makes no sense to block a first class seat so the dog could lay on the floor.

My 90 lb pit would prefer to sit on my lap, so she wouldn't even need floor space or an additional seat.

Look I don’t know if they did or didn’t- is it possible yes is it probably who knows…Certain airlines/airplanes I will only fly in first, although I don’t have a service dog, I choose first as it’s more accommodating and I don’t have to deal with the disability pre-boarding process. The difference is people flying with a service dog have to get registration paperwork done about the service dog before the dog can fly. Someone at Delta made a decision about the dog and didn’t classify it as a “pet”
What I am saying is maybe a last minute upgrade shouldn’t have been assigned in the first place and Delta did what they could to rectify the situation immediately.
If Delta decides to look into it and finds it wasn’t a service dog than that person should deal with the DOT consequences. IMO either way the guy is wrong for starting a reddit post instead of addressing it with the airline immediately. That to me is plain old sour grapes.

 

[WorldT]

I was reading a review of another timeshare. One of the reviewers was very happy with the larger space because his TWO SERVICE dogs were with him. I have met many true service dogs having worked in retail for a while. But I am yet to meet someone who has two of them at the same time.