[ALL DEBATE CONTENT REMOVED FROM ORIGINAL THREAD PLACED HERE] All debate topics for the ongoing Wyndham resort closure actions...

[Double U]

I guess my point is I don't know exactly what you're trying to say. Would I like the opportunity to exchange in II with my Club Wyndham points? Sure! But was I aware when I first purchased 15 years ago that it was not and would probably not ever be an option for me? Also yes. Did I ever consider that I as an owner or even a group of owners could change Club Wyndham's chosen business partnerships? No. I know where my efforts would be wasted, and that's one place.

I'm quite familiar with the Second Amended and Restated Fairshare Vacation Plan Use Management Trust Agreement. I have it bookmarked and I refer to it often (usually when someone on Facebook talks about filing a class action so I can refer back to the parts where the governing documents allow Wyndham to do whatever the person is complaining about). I agree that every owner should be familiar with it, as well as the matter in the back of the directory under "Services" and "Program Disclosures," especially given the fact that the trust agreement specifically states (emphasis mine) "11.01 Directory. Set forth below in summary form are certain of the most important features of the Plan. The rules, regulations, guidelines, policies and procedures related to the allocation of Points to the Trust Properties and the use of Points by Members in connection with the Trust Properties and the Plan are fully described in the Directory. In the event of a conflict between the information described in this Article XI and the information set forth in the Directory, the information set forth in the Directory shall be controlling. Wyndham, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to amend the Directory and the provisions therein from time to time as may be necessary to implement the Plan."

You're right. You're not interested in it. So without a vested interest, it is absolutely wasting your time. Thank you for saying so and being clear!!!

I don't disagree you know the trust better than most of us. Thank you for sharing!

 

[comicbookman]

Not selfish - it makes sense - as I just edited my post - people often to looking and find forums like TUG because they're unhappy about something or seeking a better understanding of what's going on specific to their issue and trying to find others who have had similar experiences to help them out. Venting is often part of that remediation process IME. We all vent, but the repetitive venting is often a symptom of the timesharing power users - which are basically 1% of the ownership base, however, many folks on TUG don't really understand this well. They think TUG is emblematic of average timeshare ownership experiences, which is most cases couldn't be further from the truth. The waters get muddy, especially right now, when Wyndham, or any other timeshare company, enacts actions that impact a larger proportion of the ownership base outside of the 1%. This is what we're witnessing at present, which actually brings up an interesting question I need to ask Wyndham, what percentage of the overall personal ownership base is actually impacted by these actions? I'll see if I can get an answer - anyone want to hazard a guess? We know 10 resorts are exiting, but Wyndham held the majority of the intervals at all impacted resorts. 5%?

Given that some the resorts are very small or not all of the HOA's are involved, BB, Edisto, Pocono, I would be surprised if it exceeds 3 percent. It would be interesting to know the real percentage.

 

[jp10558]

I personally see signs the industry is floundering. And there is always going to be a level of protectionalism, rightfully so. But how much is healthy, and when can sharing more improve the experience industrywide? Just my 2 cents worth (they don't make pennies anymore, LOL)

IDK, the hardest part for me is always remembering that modern business (and IDK if it ever was the case TBH) doesn't really think they make money by making a compelling product that gets better with time, and so by increasing the value to consumers they naturally get more customers and everyone is happy about the situation. Modern business thinks that the best thing to do is squeeze as much value out of the existing customers as possible, and hope they can market people into becoming customers even though it barely is any value left to them for doing business with the company. All to try and juice the stock price in the current quarter.

Businesses feel more like financial engineering than providing a good or service that someone wants anymore. And so - contrary to our initial thoughts that making the product more appealing to existing and new customers would be a good business idea, especially if they're foundering, but instead they are looking for lock in and subscriptions and ever growing fees.

 

[paxsarah]

You're right. You're not interested in it. So without a vested interest, it is absolutely wasting your time. Thank you for saying so and being clear!!!

I don't disagree you know the trust better than most of us. Thank you for sharing!

Not interested in what, II? I have been, at least enough to have considered whether purchasing Worldmark for that access would work for me. I regularly exchanged into DVC when it was in RCI and miss that option, though the shift fortunately coincided with my kids’ teen years and their interest in more thrills than Disney has to offer. It just didn’t occur to me to blame Wyndham for that shift in business relationships, and even if I did, dwelling on it isn’t a productive use of my mental energy. I’ve known all along that if I wanted any control over my access to DVC, the answer is to buy DVC. Otherwise, it was a good run.

 

[seascapemvy]

As a DVC and Wyndham owner I am glad DVC switched to II. I now have ability to book extra vacations on both RCI and II. Also if I run out of DVC points I can always book at Bonnet Creek.

 

[Barnmedic]

As a fixed week owner at Patriots Place since 1992 I am very curious to see how this impacts our membership. We bank into and exchange through RCI, paying all of the extra fees, as we have very limited options since Wyndham purchased Patriots Place. We received our chapter 11 notice and I'm hoping that this may allow us to exit.

 

[Floridaman76]

As a fixed week owner at Patriots Place since 1992 I am very curious to see how this impacts our membership. We bank into and exchange through RCI, paying all of the extra fees, as we have very limited options since Wyndham purchased Patriots Place. We received our chapter 11 notice and I'm hoping that this may allow us to exit.

It will

 

[Barnmedic]

Has any Fixed Week owner filed a claim yet? I believe that we don't have the option to "swap", we did NOT receive the swap letter but instead received a form for filing a claim with no guidance as to what we are claiming. I've gone to the Omni website for Patriot's Place and created an account but couldn't find any helpful information as to what we are actually claiming. I have also called the help line and sent an email requesting more information as to how to continue. Does anyone have any additional information?

 

[Double U]

I have 7 to deal with. So far, anyway.

I am so confused and lost. I don't know what to do. I don't deserve to be serviced like this

 

[HitchHiker71]

Has any Fixed Week owner filed a claim yet? I believe that we don't have the option to "swap", we did NOT receive the swap letter but instead received a form for filing a claim with no guidance as to what we are claiming. I've gone to the Omni website for Patriot's Place and created an account but couldn't find any helpful information as to what we are actually claiming. I have also called the help line and sent an email requesting more information as to how to continue. Does anyone have any additional information?

Fixed week owners did have the option to swap. If you didn’t receive the email/letter then call the help line documented in our FAQ in the 1st post and ask about your swap option if interested.


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[Floridaman76]

I think they have a hotlne set up so you can call them for further instructions. Maybe someone who has gone through the process can say, but I thought I saw somewhere that if you did nothing, you would exit and be paid out "something", eventually and not owe anything more

 

[Barnmedic]

Fixed week owners did have the option to swap. If you didn’t receive the email/letter then call the help line documented in our FAQ in the 1st post and ask about your swap option if interested.


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Thank you! I called the hotline and left a message, and sent an email. I figured they arent "open" on the weekend. This is ridiculous but I am not surprised. The worst thing that happened to me was when Wyndham took over our property.

 

[shawnee83]

Did I see someone post that more resorts may be added to the Wyndham closure list this year? If so, could this signal a major restructuring/downsizing across the "timeshare" industry as we know it? Throwing it out for discussion.

Happy New Year!

 

[HitchHiker71]

Did I see someone post that more resorts may be added to the Wyndham closure list this year? If so, could this signal a major restructuring/downsizing across the "timeshare" industry as we know it? Throwing it out for discussion.

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year!

Anything is possible, however I think this is too preliminary. The current impacted resort exiting processes are really just getting started, and therefore the ultimate longer term outcomes are still very much TBD. IMHO until Wyndham actually realizes successful outcomes from these nascent processes from the first 10 resorts, I suspect they will not proceed forward with any additional exits. It would likely be deemed too much risk to absorb in 2026 with no actual proof of successful outcomes yet.


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[comicbookman]

Did I see someone post that more resorts may be added to the Wyndham closure list this year? If so, could this signal a major restructuring/downsizing across the "timeshare" industry as we know it? Throwing it out for discussion.

Happy New Year!

That comment may have been from a sales attempt, the way I read the post.

 

[paxsarah]

Happy New Year!

Anything is possible, however I think this is too preliminary. The current impacted resort exiting processes are really just getting started, and therefore the ultimate longer term outcomes are still very much TBD. IMHO until Wyndham actually realizes successful outcomes from these nascent processes from the first 10 resorts, I suspect they will not proceed forward with any additional exits. It would likely be deemed too much risk to absorb in 2026 with no actual proof of successful outcomes yet.


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And if I had to guess, now that Wyndham has “broken the seal” I wouldn’t be surprised if future closures come in ones and twos and not all at once. I think these were the lowest hanging fruit but it would probably be much more difficult to assemble a second similarly sized group of HOAs that are both low performing and majority Wyndham owned/controlled.

 

[Arimaas]

And if I had to guess, now that Wyndham has “broken the seal” I wouldn’t be surprised if future closures come in ones and twos and not all at once. I think these were the lowest hanging fruit but it would probably be much more difficult to assemble a second similarly sized group of HOAs that are both low performing and majority Wyndham owned.

It's too bad we have no way to tell what is safe and what isn't. After this FG closing, my portfolio is 236K Kingsgate and 126K CWA. If they do away with Kingsgate, I am kind of forced into a CWA swap, as it wouldn't make sense for me just to hold 126K CWA points, and I won't have enough in a bank to keep reservations safe and lose points in the same year anymore. And I wouldn't want 236K CWA points - not at higher MFs.

Or I guess I could let the Kingsgate go, and pick up another 126K CWA for free on ebay somewhere else and just downsize points all together. Either way, I am just thinking out loud, but the point is, we really have no idea what Wyndham is planning, and we are stuck being subject to their whims, when, the reason many of us are her on TUG and into timeshares, is we thought there was some longevity to the product value. That has proven not to be the case.

 

[Floridaman76]

And if I had to guess, now that Wyndham has “broken the seal” I wouldn’t be surprised if future closures come in ones and twos and not all at once. I think these were the lowest hanging fruit but it would probably be much more difficult to assemble a second similarly sized group of HOAs that are both low performing and majority Wyndham owned/controlled.

I'm at a resort right now that i'm guessing will be on a future list (Sapphire Valley). It's one I stay at, at minimum every other year, sometimes annually. And it will be a real dagger to the heart if it closes for me

 

[Floridaman76]

It's too bad we have no way to tell what is safe and what isn't. After this FG closing, my portfolio is 236K Kingsgate and 126K CWA. If they do away with Kingsgate, I am kind of forced into a CWA swap, as it wouldn't make sense for me just to hold 126K CWA points, and I won't have enough in a bank to keep reservations safe and lose points in the same year anymore. And I wouldn't want 236K CWA points - not at higher MFs.

Or I guess I could let the Kingsgate go, and pick up another 126K CWA for free on ebay somewhere else and just downsize points all together. Either way, I am just thinking out loud, but the point is, we really have no idea what Wyndham is planning, and we are stuck being subject to their whims, when, the reason many of us are her on TUG and into timeshares, is we thought there was some longevity to the product value. That has proven not to be the case.

I think ultimately most of us who bought retail were sold on the "big system with diverse locations" and if Wyndham thinks they can distill this down to "Bonnet Creek, Myrtle Beach and a couple other locations" they will have a huge lawsuit on their hands.

Especially when they are beyond financially solvent.

The optics of this are not in their favor, they would have been better off taking a smaller bite at the apple. Closing the true non-performers like Fairfield Bay, The Glade and Orlando International rather than taking such a huge bite at once.

Someone probably convinced them that it would be better to just rip off the band aid and let it bleed

 

[Arimaas]

I think ultimately most of us who bought retail were sold on the "big system with diverse locations" and if Wyndham thinks they can distill this down to "Bonnet Creek, Myrtle Beach and a couple other locations" they will have a huge lawsuit on their hands.

Especially when they are beyond financially solvent.

The optics of this are not in their favor, they would have been better off taking a smaller bite at the apple. Closing the true non-performers like Fairfield Bay, The Glade and Orlando International rather than taking such a huge bite at once.

Someone probably convinced them that it would be better to just rip off the band aid and let it bleed

Yes - I came into Wyndham from HGVC due to the locations. I will still make it work, and, since I have never owned a retail timeshare in my life, I will adapt and not have to worry about any real financial hit.

Wyndahm does not care about the optics. It's apparent. But also, who do the optics look bad for? The employees? Please, they don't care. The TUG crew? The owners at the closed resorts? Only a small subset of them probably knows what this means anyway. They have no idea how to use the product and what they are paying for anyway .The next group of people that they are going to try to sell inventory to at Myrtle or Bonnet Creek will have no idea this even occurred.

I don't think there is any cause of action based on change of usage due to losing locations. Even if someone did push forward a lawsuit, they'll blame that on the HOA anyway in any legal proceedings against Wyndham corproate. And the HOAs are now insolvant, so good luck there I think there are other causes of action (which we discussed ad nauseum), but I don't think lawyers are going to be lining up to take these cases.

 

[paxsarah]

I'm at a resort right now that i'm guessing will be on a future list (Sapphire Valley). It's one I stay at, at minimum every other year, sometimes annually. And it will be a real dagger to the heart if it closes for me

I’m going to have to try to get there soon. Until the Atlanta resort opened it was the closest resort to me and I’ve never been there.

 

[chapjim]

And if I had to guess, now that Wyndham has “broken the seal” I wouldn’t be surprised if future closures come in ones and twos and not all at once. I think these were the lowest hanging fruit but it would probably be much more difficult to assemble a second similarly sized group of HOAs that are both low performing and majority Wyndham owned/controlled.

One to watch is Lake Marion in Santee, SC. We stop there often but rarely for more than two or three nights. I don't know anything about their occupancy rate but they never seem to be overwhelmed when we're there. Not long ago, the website had a response to the effect that reservations could no longer be booked at Lake Marion. Also, the calendar ended in April 2026. Both of those seem to have been cleared, probably because the underlying cause was upgrades rather than closure.

 

[paxsarah]

It's too bad we have no way to tell what is safe and what isn't. After this FG closing, my portfolio is 236K Kingsgate and 126K CWA. If they do away with Kingsgate, I am kind of forced into a CWA swap, as it wouldn't make sense for me just to hold 126K CWA points, and I won't have enough in a bank to keep reservations safe and lose points in the same year anymore. And I wouldn't want 236K CWA points - not at higher MFs.

Or I guess I could let the Kingsgate go, and pick up another 126K CWA for free on ebay somewhere else and just downsize points all together. Either way, I am just thinking out loud, but the point is, we really have no idea what Wyndham is planning, and we are stuck being subject to their whims, when, the reason many of us are her on TUG and into timeshares, is we thought there was some longevity to the product value. That has proven not to be the case.

I also own a 238k contract at Kingsgate and if they decided to go the sales route with it, I’d pick up a low-MF resale deed (not CWA) as soon as the news broke to put me back at my desired points level and then let my Kingsgate be sold with the resort. I’d only take a CWA swap if the timeframe was really tight and I couldn’t expect a resale to transfer in time to support my next year’s reservations. But if someone bought a replacement resale in July in this round, they’d likely have received it by the end of the year.

 

[Arimaas]

I also own a 238k contract at Kingsgate and if they decided to go the sales route with it, I’d pick up a low-MF resale deed (not CWA) as soon as the news broke to put me back at my desired points level and then let my Kingsgate be sold with the resort. I’d only take a CWA swap if the timeframe was really tight and I couldn’t expect a resale to transfer in time to support my next year’s reservations. But if someone bought a replacement resale in July in this round, they’d likely have received it by the end of the year.

Amazing that this is how we have to think now, right?

 

[chapjim]

I think ultimately most of us who bought retail were sold on the "big system with diverse locations" and if Wyndham thinks they can distill this down to "Bonnet Creek, Myrtle Beach and a couple other locations" they will have a huge lawsuit on their hands.

Especially when they are beyond financially solvent.

The optics of this are not in their favor, they would have been better off taking a smaller bite at the apple. Closing the true non-performers like Fairfield Bay, The Glade and Orlando International rather than taking such a huge bite at once.

Someone probably convinced them that it would be better to just rip off the band aid and let it bleed

What will be the cause of action for the huge lawsuit? To be so emphatic, you must have an idea.

Who is beyond financially solvent?