[ALL DEBATE CONTENT REMOVED FROM ORIGINAL THREAD PLACED HERE] All debate topics for the ongoing Wyndham resort closure actions...

[CO skier]

Back of the napkin causes of action related to breach of contract: (there may be contractual language that allows for what Wyndham is doing, but we looked it up in one of the posts here, and I really don't think there is. That being said, since I am not billing hourly, I am not going to dive deeper than the back of the napkin).

• Knowingly taking reservations at the impacted resorts without giving people warning that this may occur (there may be issues with giving people notice due to the bankruptcy. I believe that's a question of law/fact for a courtroom to decide)
• Knowingly taking reservations with people's 2026 points when there is a possibility they won't honor those reservations because the points are going poof (there's value to those reservations plus non refundable costs people may have spent - airfare, other lodging, etc.)

There are posts that Wyndham is blocking out 2026 inventory at the appropriate time (following the HOA votes) and informing owners of the impending cancellations.

Wyndham put an announcement on its website within days of word getting out about these closures.
Wyndham has to shut off booking on the owner website.
Wyndham has put messages up on the home pages of the resorts who have voted to close.
Wyndham has called owners with reservations at those resorts to cancel them.
Wyndham will be the one to send the information about the swap offer to the owners at those resorts.

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• Knowingly allowing people to roll points over into 2026 and/or 2027 knowing those points may go poof (there's value to the points and cost to roll them)

The points will go poof only if the member chooses not to continue their ownership in Club Wyndham. A caveman (TV commercial reference) could argue and win that case.

They have an option, and that’s to accept a CWA swap. Yet another option would be to borrow those points back into this year and travel before 12/31.

Owners will have the option to swap for CWA (at no cost) and keep their account open and points active. The only difference is they would pay the 2026 CWA mf, which might be somewhat higher or lower than they would have paid had the resort not closed.

 

[Arimaas]

There are posts that Wyndham is blocking out 2026 inventory at the appropriate time (following the HOA votes) and informing owners of the impending cancellations.


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The points will go poof only if the member chooses not to continue their ownership in Club Wyndham. A caveman (TV commercial reference) could argue and win that case.

I disagree with your legal analysis. Plenty there to argue and for a jury to decide as is apparent by our circular discussions here. That being said, is it worth a lawyers time, since they work on contingency.

 

[seascapemvy]

I disagree with your legal analysis. Plenty there to argue and for a jury to decide as is apparent by our circular discussions here. That being said, is it worth a lawyers time, since they work on contingency.

Lawyers only take contingency cases that have a good chance of winning and are worth alot. Timeshares are worthless, so unless the lost of use if worth a great deal it will be hard to find a good lawyer to take this case on.

 

[Arimaas]

Lawyers only take contingency cases that have a good chance of winning and are worth alot. Timeshares are worthless, so unless the lost of use if worth a great deal it will be hard to find a good lawyer to take this case on.

You figure the loss of use for me for 2026 would be what $1500? Not sure how big the class is but I’d it’s hundreds that adds up quickly. Either way we can keep arguing the abstract until the cows come home.

 

[Rolltydr]

I disagree with your legal analysis. Plenty there to argue and for a jury to decide as is apparent by our circular discussions here. That being said, is it worth a lawyers time, since they work on contingency.

It would never get to a jury. They are notifying people when decisions are made. Several Wyndham properties are on the Florida coast. There is a really good chance that at some point in the near future some of those will have to cancel reservations due to hurricane activity, should they post a notice on their website that you are making reservations at your own risk? Of course not. They notify people when they KNOW what is going to happen, not when they think something may happen. You can continue making your proclamations that Wyndham and the HOAs are one and the same, they are not. But, keep making your so-called legal analysis for which your only supporting evidence is that on a social media website you state, “Plenty there to argue and for a jury to decide as is apparent by our circular discussions here.”

 

[CO skier]

You figure the loss of use for me for 2026 would be what $1500? Not sure how big the class is but I’d it’s hundreds that adds up quickly. Either way we can keep arguing the abstract until the cows come home.

110% chance this thread will be pointlessly arguing in circles well into 2026.

 

[Arimaas]

It would never get to a jury. They are notifying people when decisions are made. Several Wyndham properties are on the Florida coast. There is a really good chance that at some point in the near future some of those will have to cancel reservations due to hurricane activity, should they post a notice on their website that you are making reservations at your own risk? Of course not. They notify people when they KNOW what is going to happen, not when they think something may happen. You can continue making your proclamations that Wyndham and the HOAs are one and the same, they are not. But, keep making your so-called legal analysis for which your only supporting evidence is that on a social media website you state, “Plenty there to argue and for a jury to decide as is apparent by our circular discussions here.”

I don’t know if you intend to come off as nasty, or just do it, but I’ve been pretty civil this entire discussion and for my life on TUG.

I’m not sure where you are basing your legal analysis from, your 35 years as an IT coms guy? I’m not even going to dignify any of your points with a response other than your analogies consistently miss the mark.

 

[comicbookman]

Although most class actions have 1000s of plaintiffs (think the latest class action I got $20 from - Facebook), the class really doesn't have to be that big. 20 plaintiffs with similar claims is more than enough. Tbe question is is it profitable for a law firm to take it, as you point out.

Back of the napkin causes of action related to breach of contract: (there may be contractual language that allows for what Wyndham is doing, but we looked it up in one of the posts here, and I really don't think there is. That being said, since I am not billing hourly, I am not going to dive deeper than the back of the napkin).

• Knowingly taking reservations at the impacted resorts without giving people warning that this may occur (there may be issues with giving people notice due to the bankruptcy. I believe that's a question of law/fact for a courtroom to decide)
• Knowingly taking reservations with people's 2026 points when there is a possibility they won't honor those reservations because the points are going poof (there's value to those reservations plus non refundable costs people may have spent - airfare, other lodging, etc.)
• Knowingly allowing people to roll points over into 2026 and/or 2027 knowing those points may go poof (there's value to the points and cost to roll them)

This effort is too coordinated to show that Wyndham didn't have knowledge that it was going to happen, probably a year plus in advance. Also, what are the contingency plans for points (no pun) two and three above? Just going poof is not the answer - hence the class action. For point one, I get, what other choice do they have (other than the pop up notification which may have problems if its own).

I still contend the actually effected class and the total damages, would be far to small to be worth pursuing by a competent lawyer. Especially your points 2 and 3. Also the offer of the CWA swap also gets around points 2 and 3. As for your point 1, an action I agree sucks, I expect that Wyndham's defense would be based on their legal obligations under various contracts with the resorts and relevant laws about disclosure related to the overall actions. So we may have a case of dueling laws. Again given that many of the resorts in question are going away due to low occupancy,, and not all cancelled reservations will result in a monetary loss, a small class probably not worth the effort. Individuals who can show a large loss however probably can find a competent lawyer and may be able to get compensation.

 

[Arimaas]

I think we both are in agreement that , you’d have to find a lawyer willing to take this, and I’m sure k&l is taking that gamble as well.

As for the CWA swap, I say that isn’t an equitable offer. Let’s say I’m not a TUGer and only own 154k FG. I have reservations in 2026 with banked points and my 154k. All those reservations go poof unless I take the swap and pay more money and buy a product I don’t want. As of today, I can still make those reservations still for 2026 even though Wyndham knows they are going poof. There’s some liability there. What I think absolves them from that is the offer to not take the 2026 refund and use the points with in that year.

Agian, any good lawyer can argue Anything. Hell someone got a pay out because coffee was hot two decades ago.

 

[comicbookman]

Please note that all my words for which you state " You lost me" are questions (?) only. Folks were to answer them with their thoughts. Hope this helps you addresss these questions. So Wyndham doesn't either directly or indirectly have any influence on the HOAs/BODs except for their controlling votes? So there are no Wyndham employees, past or present, on the HOAs/BODs thus no conflicts existing whatsoever?

comicbookman "There has been no complaints that having Wyndham manage the resorts has resulted in enrichment of Wyndham at the expense of other owners. Indeed, Wyndham has in fact been credited with saving and extending some of the resorts."

Your above comment about Wyndham Management having no complaints is simply not true. What about the Georgia fiasco which made us lose our Founder's status? Also, I recall that there were quite a few problems with Fairfield Harbor and Kauai Beach Villas. I am sure there were more for which I was not directly affected by.

comicbookman "So as long as all owners are treated the same, including Wyndham, how much influence Wyndham has because of their majority ownership is irrelevant."
It certainly is relevant if it intentionally causes the problems cited by owners in this thread along withthe thousands of other Wyndham owners who don't read TUG and know little or nothing now.

I did not say Wyndham management has no complaints. I have had a few. I said there were no complaints that they are doing things to enrich Wyndham at the expense of other owners. Also those complaints would need to be at the specific resorts that are leaving to be relevant to your " conflict of interest" point. No shutdown is going to be problem free. As long as Wyndham's ownership interests are treated no different from individual owners, regardless of how problematic things may be, there is nothing illegal being done You are confusing Wyndham's role as a resort manager, with their role as another owner. They could use there ownership position to make things easier for individual owners, and in fact the CWA offer is one such move, but they don't have to ( and yes I am aware that the CWA move benefits Wyndham as well, but not as an owner at the affected resorts )

 

[comicbookman]

That's a good point. When realignment happens, someone is paying 15, 18, or 21 months of maintenance fees for the same amount of points. That doesn't simply go away or not happen just because the expiration date changes. That money is lost. Even if it is said that the money goes to the HOA, for Wyndham managed properties they are earning a management fee. You can also look at the Club Fee. That is also billed monthly and a portion of that goes to Wyndham as revenue.

Something is being stolen. We can say it's points or cash, but we can't ignore it and somehow think Wyndham is not part of it.

I agree, but this " theft " is irrelevant to this thread.

 

[comicbookman]

I think we both are in agreement that , you’d have to find a lawyer willing to take this, and I’m sure k&l is taking that gamble as well.

As for the CWA swap, I say that isn’t an equitable offer. Let’s say I’m not a TUGer and only own 154k FG. I have reservations in 2026 with banked points and my 154k. All those reservations go poof unless I take the swap and pay more money and buy a product I don’t want. As of today, I can still make those reservations still for 2026 even though Wyndham knows they are going poof. There’s some liability there. What I think absolves them from that is the offer to not take the 2026 refund and use the points with in that year.

Agian, any good lawyer can argue Anything. Hell someone got a pay out because coffee was hot two decades ago.

I agree, the CWA swap may not be equitable, but it is also not required, which was my point.

 

[dioxide45]

I agree, but this " theft " is irrelevant to this thread.

It was part of a sidebar conversation. Those things happen in long threads like this.

 

[comicbookman]

It was part of a sidebar conversation. Those things happen in long threads like this.

Don't I know it. Sorry, I was in the middle of an almost relevant discussion when I read that post.

 

[Rolltydr]

I don’t know if you intend to come off as nasty, or just do it, but I’ve been pretty civil this entire discussion and for my life on TUG.

I’m not sure where you are basing your legal analysis from, your 35 years as an IT coms guy? I’m not even going to dignify any of your points with a response other than your analogies consistently miss the mark.

Oh, I’m sorry. You prefer the passive-aggressive approach, I see. I’ll keep that in mind moving forward.

You made the assumption that my experience was limited to communications only as it relates to the IT field. I’m not going into details for everyone to see here but my experience was in the corporate office and I regularly met with VPs, crafted statements for them, and was knowledgeable of several lawsuits against the company. Would you care to tell us where your legal expertise comes from that enables you to be so certain this is ripe for a class action suit?

 

[dioxide45]

Don't I know it. Sorry, I was in the middle of an almost relevant discussion when I read that post.

That is why the quote feature works well. You can follow those side conversations back to see the context. This is something that Facebook Groups do well, they keep sidebar conversations in their own linear threads. That is about the only thing I like about how Facebook Groups work.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think we both are in agreement that , you’d have to find a lawyer willing to take this, and I’m sure k&l is taking that gamble as well.

As for the CWA swap, I say that isn’t an equitable offer. Let’s say I’m not a TUGer and only own 154k FG. I have reservations in 2026 with banked points and my 154k. All those reservations go poof unless I take the swap and pay more money and buy a product I don’t want. As of today, I can still make those reservations still for 2026 even though Wyndham knows they are going poof. There’s some liability there. What I think absolves them from that is the offer to not take the 2026 refund and use the points with in that year.

Agian, any good lawyer can argue Anything. Hell someone got a pay out because coffee was hot two decades ago.

Roughly 50% of the impacted resorts have all 2026 inventory blocked off already, which occurred within 24 hours of the HOA votes confirming 2026 operations ceasing. So your generalized statement about this issue is incorrect - including FG. There is also no cost for the CWA swap, which again means your assertion is incorrect. Yes the MFs are slightly higher in your specific case - which is really irrelevant - what would matter for any large case is if the average cost across the entirety of the class was or was not equitable, and I’ve been told that the average cost for CWA is equitable for the average owner across all impacted resorts. So, I’m fairly certain if challenged legally any court would decide that the swap offered is more than fair, especially given this same type of resort closure process historically at many timeshare resorts offered nothing in comparison - the impacted owners were simply out of luck.


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[Arimaas]

Roughly 50% of the impacted resorts have all 2026 inventory blocked off already, which occurred within 24 hours of the HOA votes confirming 2026 operations ceasing. So your generalized statement about this issue is incorrect - including FG. There is also no cost for the CWA swap, which again means your assertion is incorrect. Yes the MFs are slightly higher in your specific case - which is really irrelevant - what would matter for any large case is if the average cost across the entirety of the class was or was not equitable, and I’ve been told that the average cost for CWA is equitable for the average owner across all impacted resorts. So, I’m fairly certain if challenged legally any court would decide that the swap offered is more than fair, especially given this same report closure process historically ay many timeshare resorts offered nothing in comparison - the impacted owners were simply out of luck.


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I think you’re missing the Point I’m trying to make. Since this is all abstract and hypothetical let’s pretend I only own 154k points at FG where I pay $6.30/1000. I rolled all of 2025 points to 2026 because I want to go to Hawaii which I booked for say Easter break in April.

In October of 2025 I get notified that FG is closing up shop and I can swap points into CWA. Nothing else is being told, I’m just given some vague information and if I call anyone, no one knows what’s going on so I’m still in the dark. And I’m your average timeshare guy not a TUGer so I had no idea this is coming and I don’t know what my options are going forward. i vaguely
Have some idea that I can swap my points for CWA but have no idea what that means.
But all is good, I’m going to Hawaii in five months!

Now it’s November or so and some more info is coming out. I still don’t know much but I do know that my MFs go up $2/1000 or another $300 a year (on what was $900 or so dollars, so 133% increase once they explain to me what CWA is. I say to myself I’m not taking that deal, that’s awful AND I’ll have to pay it for ever and ever. Wyndham tells me “well if you don’t take it say goodbye to your 2025 rolled points and you can’t go away on April because your account goes poof and you don’t exist, even though you rolled your paid for 2025 points into 2026. Sorry. Even though it’s nothing you did that caused this (other than not accept our deal which would increased. your MFs by 133%, after we promised you the world in the sales meetings!).

So I’m not worried at this point about 2026 FG reservations, although that sucks too. This is beyond that.

And I do believe there is a cause of action here. The questions is, will anyone pursue it and will a lawyer bother with it on contingency. Probably not.

 

[Arimaas]

Oh, I’m sorry. You prefer the passive-aggressive approach, I see. I’ll keep that in mind moving forward.

You made the assumption that my experience was limited to communications only as it relates to the IT field. I’m not going into details for everyone to see here but my experience was in the corporate office and I regularly met with VPs, crafted statements for them, and was knowledgeable of several lawsuits against the company. Would you care to tell us where your legal expertise comes from that enables you to be so certain this is ripe for a class action suit?

And it doesn’t matter how you come off. My engagement with you will end here going further on any discussion board on TUG.

 

[comicbookman]

I think you’re missing the Point I’m trying to make. Since this is all abstract and hypothetical let’s pretend I only own 154k points at FG where I pay $6.30/1000. I rolled all of 2025 points to 2026 because I want to go to Hawaii which I booked for say Easter break in April.

In October of 2025 I get notified that FG is closing up shop and I can swap points into CWA. Nothing else is being told, I’m just given some vague information and if I call anyone, no one knows what’s going on so I’m still in the dark. And I’m your average timeshare guy not a TUGer so I had no idea this is coming and I don’t know what my options are going forward. i vaguely
Have some idea that I can swap my points for CWA but have no idea what that means.
But all is good, I’m going to Hawaii in five months!

Now it’s November or so and some more info is coming out. I still don’t know much but I do know that my MFs go up $2/1000 or another $300 a year (on what was $900 or so dollars, so 133% increase once they explain to me what CWA is. I say to myself I’m not taking that deal, that’s awful AND I’ll have to pay it for ever and ever. Wyndham tells me “well if you don’t take it say goodbye to your 2025 rolled points and you can’t go away on April because your account goes poof and you don’t exist, even though you rolled your paid for 2025 points into 2026. Sorry. Even though it’s nothing you did that caused this (other than not accept our deal which would increased. your MFs by 133%, after we promised you the world in the sales meetings!).

So I’m not worried at this point about 2026 FG reservations, although that sucks too. This is beyond that.

And I do believe there is a cause of action here. The questions is, will anyone pursue it and will a lawyer bother with it on contingency. Probably not.

What would That cause of action actually be? The HOA is taking away your deed, which is the basis of your points. Your ability to trade in the Wyndham system hinges on your being a member in good standing, which requires you to own something which is or can be converted to points. Wyndham, under no obligation that I am aware of offers you their CWA product which gives you an equivalent number of points. You, seeing that this is not financially to your advantage decline. You are no longer a member in good standing and so Wyndham cancels your reservation since you no longer meet the requirements to use the system. Maybe you have a cause of action against the HOA for causing you financial harm by messing up your relationship with Wyndham, but given the bankruptcy proceedings, probably not. I still fail to see any cause of action against Wyndham. The result sucks, but I don't see how you recover from Wyndham. You keep saying you "see a cause of action" but you never actually say specifically for what. Your description of events does not describe one. (other than the sales garbage, but we all know that those are never winners)

EDIT to add: This should not be taken to mean I endorse Wyndham's actions. They could, as has been pointed out, for the sake of goodwill create a special type of one year membership to avoid you losing your reservation. I do not see that they are obligated to do so however.

 

[Arimaas]

What would That cause of action actually be? The HOA is taking away your deed, which is the basis of your points. Your ability to trade in the Wyndham system hinges on your being a member in good standing, which requires you to own something which is or can be converted to points. Wyndham, under no obligation that I am aware of offers you their CWA product which gives you an equivalent number of points. You, seeing that this is not financially to your advantage decline. You are no longer a member in good standing and so Wyndham cancels your reservation since you no longer meet the requirements to use the system. Maybe you have a cause of action against the HOA for causing you financial harm by messing up your relationship with Wyndham, but given the bankruptcy proceedings, probably not. I still fail to see any cause of action against Wyndham. The result sucks, but I don't see how you recover from Wyndham. You keep saying you "see a cause of action" but you never actually say specifically for what. Your description of events does not describe one. (other than the sales garbage, but we all know that those are never winners)

It’s a breech of contract claim. I am no longer a memeber due to the actions of Wyndham (or the HOA - you’re right I use them interchangeably). In 2025 I rolled points for use in 2026. Through no fault of my own you are canceling my ability to use them unless I swap in your something not equivalent to what I have now. When I rolled them I was expected to use them.

Damages are the cost of the points plus fee to roll them, plus the cost of non refundable reservations made in order to use them.

Wyndham could solve this entire moot court exercise by allowing people in that situation to use their 2026 reservations. We will see what they end up doing.

 

[Rolltydr]

And it doesn’t matter how you come off. My engagement with you will end here going further on any discussion board on TUG.

That’s fine with me. However, I will continue to call you out when you make assertions that have no basis in fact and are outright incorrect.

Since this is all abstract and hypothetical let’s pretend…

Such as here, where you actually admit you’re making up this particular scenario, but then….

And I do believe there is a cause of action here. The questions is, will anyone pursue it and will a lawyer bother with it on contingency. Probably not.

Smdh! Make up a charge that Wyndham is stealing from you. Lay out the details of your false charge. State you believe there is a cause of action. Admit you probably couldn’t get an attorney to agree with you. What is the purpose of the post?

There are real issues here. People who know what is going on are trying to decide what to do. Many, many more people don’t know what is occurring and won’t find out until they get a call cancelling their reservations. They will be inconvenienced and, in some cases, lose money on nonrefundable travel reservations. There is no need to completely fabricate things out of thin air in hopes of getting some attorney somewhere to file a class action lawsuit that is only going to make money for the attorneys.

 

[Rolltydr]

It’s a breech of contract claim. I am no longer a memeber due to the actions of Wyndham (or the HOA - you’re right I use them interchangeably).

They are clearly NOT the same.

 

[comicbookman]

It’s a breech of contract claim. I am no longer a memeber due to the actions of Wyndham (or the HOA - you’re right I use them interchangeably). In 2025 I rolled points for use in 2026. Through no fault of my own you are canceling my ability to use them unless I swap in your something not equivalent to what I have now. When I rolled them I was expected to use them.

Damages are the cost of the points plus fee to roll them, plus the cost of non refundable reservations made in order to use them.

Wyndham could solve this entire moot court exercise by allowing people in that situation to use their 2026 reservations. We will see what they end up doing.

You have no claim. Just because it is not your actions that cause it, it is you who are actually in breach of the contract. You cannot solve this by using the HOA and Wyndham interchangeably. The HOA is a distinctly separate entity both legally and physically. This is a fact, not an opinion. You choosing to use them interchangeably does not change that fact. It is no different than if your auto insurance company drops you for failure to make payment because someone stole all your money. It's not your fault you can't pay, but it is you breaching the terms of your contract with them. In both instances your breach is caused by a 3rd party. Unless you can find examples of improper dealings between Wyndham and HOA, I don't see any court declaring that the HOA and Wyndham can be claimed to be interchangeable. As I said earlier, Wyndham's majority membership in the HOA is only an issue if they used it to cause the HOA to treat them different than other owners. We have no evidence of that so far.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think you’re missing the Point I’m trying to make. Since this is all abstract and hypothetical let’s pretend I only own 154k points at FG where I pay $6.30/1000. I rolled all of 2025 points to 2026 because I want to go to Hawaii which I booked for say Easter break in April.

In October of 2025 I get notified that FG is closing up shop and I can swap points into CWA. Nothing else is being told, I’m just given some vague information and if I call anyone, no one knows what’s going on so I’m still in the dark. And I’m your average timeshare guy not a TUGer so I had no idea this is coming and I don’t know what my options are going forward. i vaguely
Have some idea that I can swap my points for CWA but have no idea what that means.
But all is good, I’m going to Hawaii in five months!

Now it’s November or so and some more info is coming out. I still don’t know much but I do know that my MFs go up $2/1000 or another $300 a year (on what was $900 or so dollars, so 133% increase once they explain to me what CWA is. I say to myself I’m not taking that deal, that’s awful AND I’ll have to pay it for ever and ever. Wyndham tells me “well if you don’t take it say goodbye to your 2025 rolled points and you can’t go away on April because your account goes poof and you don’t exist, even though you rolled your paid for 2025 points into 2026. Sorry. Even though it’s nothing you did that caused this (other than not accept our deal which would increased. your MFs by 133%, after we promised you the world in the sales meetings!).

So I’m not worried at this point about 2026 FG reservations, although that sucks too. This is beyond that.

And I do believe there is a cause of action here. The questions is, will anyone pursue it and will a lawyer bother with it on contingency. Probably not.

Please show your math on the claimed 133% increase. IIRC you would be paying approximately $2/1000 more, or $8.13/1000 compared to $6.30/1000 - which is actually $1.83 more. My math calculates out to a 29% increase by the numbers, assuming your $6.30/1000 does not include PFs.


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