Afraid of me? Awkward Owner Update Dance...

[Bigrob]

as far as the resort itself is concerned, its all about MF's....one needs to remember that easily 50-60% of the retail price is all tied up in marketing.

now one could argue that this staggering amount of money goes a long way into furthering the product of timesharing itself (as after all, its no doubt what entices most new owners to buy a timeshare in the first place).

However as far as a resort is concerned, maint fees are a far larger % of the bottom line than retail sales. Once you cover the expenses (both marketing, and labor costs for the sales force)....you are only talking a few years worth of maint fees....and owners are all expected to remain owners for longer than a few years.

I guess the disconnect is how one interprets the question....are we talking about timesharing in terms of a resort....or of a developer.

That's correct, I am definitely talking about a resort SYSTEM rather than a single resort within that system. I agree that at the individual resort level it's about the maintenance fees, making sure there are owners paying those fees, and a well-managed HOA to ensure proper reserves, an appropriate refresh/upgrade schedule, etc.

 

[Ty1on]

That's correct, I am definitely talking about a resort SYSTEM rather than a single resort within that system. I agree that at the individual resort level it's about the maintenance fees, making sure there are owners paying those fees, and a well-managed HOA to ensure proper reserves, an appropriate refresh/upgrade schedule, etc.

Also consider that as long as the developer is growing and actively selling anywhere, it is in their best interest to ensure that facilities and service levels are as top-notch as feasible in each resort that bears the developer's name.

 

[ronparise]

as far as the resort itself is concerned, its all about MF's....one needs to remember that easily 50-60% of the retail price is all tied up in marketing.

now one could argue that this staggering amount of money goes a long way into furthering the product of timesharing itself (as after all, its no doubt what entices most new owners to buy a timeshare in the first place).

However as far as a resort is concerned, maint fees are a far larger % of the bottom line than retail sales. Once you cover the expenses (both marketing, and labor costs for the sales force)....you are only talking a few years worth of maint fees....and owners are all expected to remain owners for longer than a few years.

I guess the disconnect is how one interprets the question....are we talking about timesharing in terms of a resort....or of a developer.

This is a what comes first, the chicken or the egg question

I know that there are independent stand alone resorts where the developer developed and sold the resort and then left but as you know timesharing has evolved. Now with the big systems the developer never leaves.

I think you are dead wrong re maintenance fees being the biggest part of the bottom line. Once the bills are paid there is only a management fee left for the manager. Certainly not enough to grow the system the way Wyndham has grown. What provides the growth and profits (the bottom line) is sales. That and the interest on the loans folks take to pay those inflated prices

So to answer your question

 

[Ty1on]

This is a what comes first, the chicken or the egg question

I know that there are independent stand alone resorts where the developer developed and sold the resort and then left but as you know timesharing has evolved. Now with the big systems the developer never leaves.

I think you are dead wrong re maintenance fees being the biggest part of the bottom line. Once the bills are paid there is only a management fee left for the manager. Certainly not enough to grow the system the way Wyndham has grown. What provides the growth and profits (the bottom line) is sales. That and the interest on the loans folks take to pay those inflated prices

So to answer your question

Certainly in Wyndham's case, their own rental operations provide a nice chunk of change for the company, too. AND oftentimes allows them to keep control of the HOAs.

 

[Xcalibur]

I often agree with you, but on this point we will have to disagree. Sales is the engine the fuels growth within the Wyndham system. Maintenance fees keep the lights on at the existing resorts, and of course are vitally important; but the maintenance fees being paid does not help get new resorts in new locations on the map, which helps to make all of our ownerships more valuable by giving us more options.

I would change the statement to; "it is new developer sales that keeps a system GROWING"... and it is that growth that is important to keep the system vibrant and attractive in the future. As much as we enjoyed visiting Fairfield Glade in the past... if Wyndham Smoky Mountains and Great Smokies Lodge had not been added, we would have lost interest in visiting TN long ago. Having new options to visit New York, Chicago, Beaver Creek, Park City, etc. etc. is definitely dependent on developer sales.

While it is nice to have the new locations, I find the points cost of them to be ridiculous. True, the points per mf are good, but that means only the older, cheaper point locations are worthwhile. With the point value of the newer locations, I don't really see myself using points to book them.

 

[alexadeparis]

I have enjoyed it for years. Wife will be retiring in a couple years so this was the time to do it. In 2013, we bought 190,000 points, and along with our two Vida weeks became VIP silver. Two things happened at that presentation, first, VIP, second which was verified, we were given permanent status, treated us as first time buyers. Also simplified process. I also have no desire to go further as we have bought additional points to VIP gold. We were at $160/1000 and we ended up with another 25% discount. I felt now was the time to pull the trigger. Then in may of this year Wyndham offered us the same price, and we bought more. In the long run we felt this to be the right decision for us, and the children if they so desire. I also feel that over time Wyndham is going to make it harder for resale to do business. With them. We always paid cash.

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Thank you. Sounds like you did PIC and requalified your resale. As long as you are happy and can pass it on to the kids, I say, great.

 

[raygo123]

No I actually tuned in the resale, goal was to get to our mf goal. Ovation.

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[MichaelColey]

"I fulfilled my part. I'm here. You need to give me the promised compensation, and I would be glad to either stay for the update, or leave. It's your choice."

 

[OutSkiing]

Sales will still be your buddies. If they ask, just say your sister gave you the unit. Be sure you have the sellers' names & address from the deed and then ask, why hasn't it been included as part of the VIP status to make me Platinum?

PS They will update the notes in your profile ... regarding that ownership.

Lol - I like your thinking, Linda.

But my sisters name would be Timeshare recyclers!

They owned it from April through August when the deal closed.

Bob

 

[OutSkiing]

I too am frustrated by sales tactics. It gives the resorts, the timeshare experience, and the timesharing industry in general a bad name. However, having said that, I'm not sure cutting the price in half would address this; when I review the complaints at BBB, the price itself is not generally the biggest point of contention. It is unfulfilled promises and statements that are just not true. Those promises take various forms; whether it is the promise of an exit strategy, ability to rent for profit, or availability that doesn't generally exist.

Sometimes I wonder why this is, especially when they talk to an owner like me. For example; at my recent owner update, I was told that of course I didn't have ARP on my resale points, only on my developer-purchased points. Wouldn't they think that if I'm in that category of having more than 100 Guest Confirmations I might just know that isn't true? Why tell such an obvious lie?

Supposedly they were trying to address the sales process and make it a more professional, streamlined, and lower pressure experience (and hopefully sprinkled with more useful, factual information). Based on my recent experience, it seems there is still some room to improve. And here's another thing that bugged me; I was checking on something specific, and what I wanted I stated clearly, and if they could have done it, I would have bought.

It turns out they had what I was looking for, but were not able/willing to do what I wanted; instead of working on that and trying to get closer on what I was actually looking for, they kept coming back with stuff that was nothing like what I wanted. If I'm trying to buy a Tesla, please stop showing me a Ford F150.

I suspect the salespeople don't actually know much about resale other than 'resale=bad' (from their perspective). So they make up facts about what they imagine 'bad' to be. I suspect the turnover is pretty high in those sales offices so actual knowledge runs thin.

I am curious (nosey) as to what specific deal you had in mind.

 

[Bigrob]

I was interested in an equity trade for Presidential Reserve, but they were requiring a huge additional purchase to make it happen.

 

[SandyPGravel]

Sales will still be your buddies. If they ask, just say your sister gave you the unit. Be sure you have the sellers' names & address from the deed and then ask, why hasn't it been included as part of the VIP status to make me Platinum?

PS They will update the notes in your profile ... regarding that ownership.

Does this really work? With my luck they will call the former owners! No big deal if they did I guess, just wouldn't get the Starwood Starpoints then I guess. Worth a try though! :hysterical:

 

[MermaidSouth]

Tactics? We were just told that if we didn't vacation, we would die of heart attacks and leave our kids without a deeded property in our will. Grr!

 

[spackler]

Tactics? We were just told that if we didn't vacation, we would die of heart attacks and leave our kids without a deeded property in our will. Grr!

We were actually told that buying a resale deed was a huge risk, like "buying a kidney on the black market". They heard of "someone" who got transferred a "surprise $50,000 debt along with the deed".

 

[medsed]

I had a refreshing presentation...only 45 minutes. You were not required to go off with an individual salesperson. I wanted some copies in writing of changes that wyndham had made, or that the presentation claimed they made....got them. Chatted with salesgirl a bit. Ended up swapping my old contract which I foolishly bought through wyndham even though I knew better, for a larger point contract, lower MF and lower monthly payment/interest rate....of course we made sure to get equity...which they considered quite large for the other contract, a good discount, and etc and I actually came out better for it. Then she said the best thing...never go to a presentation again...you will never ever get a deal like this again...and just go buy resale to get yourself more points if you need them. (And we were very close to Gold before this larger contract put us over the top for those benefits as opposed to silver and we will end up spending less overall with this new deal. We will have it paid off by the end of the year as we always have made larger than required payments on this )
She gave me her cell phone number...said if you ever get the urge to go to a presentation or if you want updates or info on new programs just give me a call. She took my number as well..she recommended a great spot for us to check out. We arranged a day trip there. She texted the day after and asked how we liked it. And we had a short conversation. NEVER ever in all of the years I have been time sharing...about 25 .....have I run into a salesperson like this one. I bet she doesn't last too long!

 

[raygo123]

Oh she will last, she made the sale! It almost sounds like a fairytale. Like the time I was sitting on the golden gate bridge dangling my feet in the water. I too when I buy pay cash. But I also know that the more points the more the mf. Could you post her phone number, I know all on this site would love more points and less mf.

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[weems637]

I too got a "hellava deal and a phone number" down in Destin. Now one of our bestest beach friends. Best thing, she knows all the best local dives and specials!

 

[raygo123]

I have bought Wyndham. It took me a long time, bought resale first. That was back in 1988. Since that time I have never, ever, had the experience your talking about.
Tell me straight out what was the great deal? $100/1000 points, 120/1000 point? 130/1000 points? I'll stop there otherwise you did NOT get a good deal. Don't get me wrong, I bought Wyndham direct am gold and satisfied with my purchases. In fact I turned back my resale (ovation), two months ago. I also know you don't go to the high end, most popular resorts to the best deal. I have sat through 6 hours, yes 6, and have said no! Until after I felt I received a fair deal, probably not the best, but fair, for retail.



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[rickandcindy23]

I am personally hoping Wyndham builds another resort like Bonnet Creek in Orlando because it's always sold out. I hope people buy that place out and Wyndham builds something even bigger and better, so we have more options. Hopefully, BC won't go by the way of the other Wyndham Orlando resorts, which no one wants--ever!

 

[silentg]

I am staying at Holly Tree in Yarmouth going down to the lobby to watch the Patriots, hopefully there will be others down there. I am wearing my Tug Shirt! go Pats!
Silentg

 

[silentg]

No one else is watching the game...must be because the weather is so beautiful. This resort is so nice and homey! Having a great time!
Silentg

 

[Vacationfuntips]

I am personally hoping Wyndham builds another resort like Bonnet Creek in Orlando because it's always sold out. I hope people buy that place out and Wyndham builds something even bigger and better, so we have more options. Hopefully, BC won't go by the way of the other Wyndham Orlando resorts, which no one wants--ever!

Wyndham/WorldMark REUNION is a top notch resort in the Orlando area.

Cynthia T.

 

[bnoble]

I bet she doesn't last too long!

This story is more evidence that they are better at doing what they do than we are at doing what we do.

 

[medsed]

Oh she will last, she made the sale! It almost sounds like a fairytale. Like the time I was sitting on the golden gate bridge dangling my feet in the water. I too when I buy pay cash. But I also know that the more points the more the mf. Could you post her phone number, I know all on this site would love more points and less mf.

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My MF fees are lower per point than they used to be is what I meant to convey. Of course they are more In total as I have a good bit more points than I used to....sorry I did not convey that very well.
I certainly will just keep these things to myself in the future....that way no one will misunderstand me (could have nicely asked for clarification...although I am sure at least a few readers might have at least thought I said what I meant to say) and no one will have to read a fairytale again.

 

[OutSkiing]

My MF fees are lower per point than they used to be is what I meant to convey. Of course they are more In total as I have a good bit more points than I used to....sorry I did not convey that very well.
I certainly will just keep these things to myself in the future....that way no one will misunderstand me (could have nicely asked for clarification...although I am sure at least a few readers might have at least thought I said what I meant to say) and no one will have to read a fairytale again.

It's good to share your experiences even at risk of misunderstandings.

I would not call it an amazingly good deal but I once did get an offer which would have reduced my overall maintenance fees. It was to trade in all my Bonnet Creek and CWA points for National Harbor while of course buying another bunch of points. I did not want to give up all my CWA nor to pay that much so I adjusted the deal and ended up with more points for the exact same maintenence fees as I had previously. National Harbor is one of the 3 lowest maintenance fee Wyndhams in the country. What really pushed me over the edge was the buyback deal where Wyndham will supposedly pay 20% of original cost.

I still find resale a far better deal and will make any future purchases resale.

Bob