Afraid of me? Awkward Owner Update Dance...

[Bigrob]

I have not been "eligible" to attend owner updates for some time. But checking in at Ocean Boulevard, I had apparently "cleared the list" and got scheduled for a session this morning.

About 30 minutes prior to my scheduled meeting, I received a call alerting me that they were "overbooked" for the session I was in, and could I come in this afternoon instead, and they would "throw in some extra goodies". I was also invited to come on down and grab coffee anyway, since I had already gotten up and planned to attend.

So I did... while I'm grabbing coffee, one of the reps said, are you here for your presentation? I explained what happened and he said, "we're not overbooked.. we may have been but now there's room. Wouldn't you like to go ahead and get your update now since you're already here?"

Well yes, yes I would. He scampers off after getting my file, which has a sticky note with a bunch of notes I can't quite make out. The clerk working the hospitality desk/scheduling pulls this folder out of the pile and somewhat grim-faced, hands it over to the rep who upon reading the post-it note, realizes he's stepped in it now. He comes back after 10 minutes, somewhat red-faced, and says something about, "I see what happened,it's because of your classification". I say, "What do you mean?"

"well, it's because we're scheduling couples in the morning, see, and... erm..." Such an obvious lie, we're not off to a good start. So I ask, "so I can't attend this morning's session because my wife couldn't make it?".

"Well... it's just... the way it's classified"

Are they really that afraid I might taint the morning pool of sales fodder with the mention of the term "resale"?

I actually want to attend a session to see what I can learn about a few things and recent changes. And now is a good time to do it since the rest of the family couldn't join me.

 

[artringwald]

The sales people get some kind of credit whenever they do a presentation, but they don't get any credit for a married couple unless both are present. DW refused to attend any more presentations, so I only can go if there's a rookie that needs some practice.

 

[Passepartout]

I wear my TUG, "Buy Resale- Save Thousands" T-shirt and get pretty much the same treatment.

 

[ronparise]

so how are you "classified"? I wonder

Ive had the same thing happen, where they schedule me then when I show up , refuse to see me

When I pressed I did get a guy that identified himself as the sales manager to talk to me in the lobby, but he wouldnt let me in the sales room or even have breakfast, much less, gift me

 

[Bigrob]

so how are you "classified"? I wonder

Ive had the same thing happen, where they schedule me then when I show up , refuse to see me

When I pressed I did get a guy that identified himself as the sales manager to talk to me in the lobby, but he wouldnt let me in the sales room or even have breakfast, much less, gift me

Let's just say that when I did finally get in to talk to someone, the basis for the classification had to do with me giving Wyndham too much money.

They were happy to talk to me once they had finished with all the high value/high probability prospects. Given the structure of the rooms here where the one-on-ones take place, it makes sense. My needs and interests are very different from most of the people they're meeting with, so ultimately I don't have a problem with it, just wish they would be honest about it up front.

 

[weems637]

I still get invited, and occasionally will attend. Experienced staff will read the file and see all the resale points and quickly move on to the next shark bait. The younger guys get frustrated and call in for reinforcements. The supervisors give you that look and ask you to "please don't talk about resale in this room". I'm thinking my invites will be shrinking soon. Gonna order a TUG tshirt soon!

 

[Tank]

IMHO > Not a fan of the shirts. If we want MF's to stay put, leave your shirts at home,.

They have jobs, family to provide for, and not on welfare. ( better than many)

That big money they get helps our resorts to look good, and maintain. Sure isn't doing it on our MF's.

Lots of us bought in first, got frustrated found TUG, and learned to work it to our benefit. Preach to friends and family, worn your guests before they go to just say no, but I don't agree with wearing the T-shirts at the resorts. Any other place would be ok (IMHO)

 

[SMHarman]

The big money pays the corporate dividends and covers initial build out and landscaping. Beyond that it is the MF that runs the resort. These are corporations not charity.

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[stratusnj75]

I stayed at 2 different Wyndham florida properties this summer (Royal Vista and Bonnet Creek) and at both check ins, the clerk made comments, "You must have a lot of points, you are on the list of those not to schedule for update"

All of those update sessions i attended in past where sales reps couldn't convince me that by retail rather resale made sense I guess finally got them to give up on me.

Not that I was dying to spend an 1 or 2 of my vacation being frustrated and lied to was something I was looking forward to anyway.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The big money pays the corporate dividends and covers initial build out and landscaping. Beyond that it is the MF that runs the resort. These are corporations not charity....

Absolutely ... employees of the sales department --- not paid for by the HOA.

The employees at the Front Desk NOW doing the scheduling for the "presentations" ARE paid for by the HOA. This should be a TALKING POINT as to reimbursement for their TIME, BENEFITS and renting of space & materials from the HOA by the SALES group on every HOA financial statement as to recovery of those costs.

 

[Weimaraner]

The quickest way for me to get my parking pass or peace & quiet on my trip is to say I'm on a trip with the girls and left the husband(s) at home. The invitation to breakfast and/or informational meeting is rescinded-or I can come...but without the free gift. The only one this hasn't worked on is Disney. I'm still invited to their open house, webinars, calls etc. They seem to be very low pressure but haven't sat in a face-to-face salesperson meeting with Disney.

 

[silentg]

I wore my t shirt at check in, cookout and around the pool, we opted out of the presentation no one asked me about it, in fact the only timeshare conversation I had was with a woman looking to sell her timeshares, she gave me her info, because I have a friend who might be interested. The shirts are not intimidating...mine is being ignored!
Silentg

 

[Roger830]

IMHO > Not a fan of the shirts. If we want MF's to stay put, leave your shirts at home,.

I agree.

New retail buyers is what keeps the Wyndham system running. I would never discourage a stranger at a resort where I'm staying from buying retail. They are buying a dream that resale brokers can't match. CWA is a brilliant means of unloading those foreclosed dog-weeks.

 

[Shelbyd95]

The most awkward update we have been to was at Palm Aire...not because we are on any list..the sales rep realized she wasn't going to sell us, stopped talking to us and stood up and just started dialing on her cell phone and walked away...when she came back she brought us to gifting. Weird.

 

[OutSkiing]

I would love to be un-invited to the presentations! My wife loves to sit and listen (and sometimes so do I). We just bought our first resale contract, adding it to a couple of contracts we had previously purchased directly from Wyndham. It will be interesting to see if sales treats us any differently.

I agree we should not 'dis' the salespeople or their process. Without the developer building and selling new properties there would be no resale to be had.

I do wonder how much of that initial sales price contributes to boosting property / landscaping quality vs supporting the sales process itself. Its weird that the price gap between direct and resale is so astronomically wide.

Bob

 

[raygo123]

No I owned just resale with Wyndham for over 30 years and was never treated differently. I now, own retail VIP gold bought over last couple years. Guess they still hold out hope, in my case, it worked.

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[vacationhopeful]

I would love to be un-invited to the presentations! My wife loves to sit and listen (and sometimes so do I). We just bought our first resale contract, adding it to a couple of contracts we had previously purchased directly from Wyndham. It will be interesting to see if sales treats us any differently.

<snip>....Bob

Sales will still be your buddies. If they ask, just say your sister gave you the unit. Be sure you have the sellers' names & address from the deed and then ask, why hasn't it been included as part of the VIP status to make me Platinum?

PS They will update the notes in your profile ... regarding that ownership.

 

[alexadeparis]

No I owned just resale with Wyndham for over 30 years and was never treated differently. I now, own retail VIP gold bought over last couple years. Guess they still hold out hope, in my case, it worked.

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ray go, what convinced you to buy retail after you had already owned resale?

 

[ronparise]

I would love to be un-invited to the presentations! My wife loves to sit and listen (and sometimes so do I). We just bought our first resale contract, adding it to a couple of contracts we had previously purchased directly from Wyndham. It will be interesting to see if sales treats us any differently.

I agree we should not 'dis' the salespeople or their process. Without the developer building and selling new properties there would be no resale to be had.

I do wonder how much of that initial sales price contributes to boosting property / landscaping quality vs supporting the sales process itself. Its weird that the price gap between direct and resale is so astronomically wide.

Bob

Wyndham tries to keep the cost of what they sell to about 16% of what they sell it for. About 60% of the sales price is marketing and commissions and the rest is profit

 

[ronparise]

I agree.

New retail buyers is what keeps the Wyndham system running. I would never discourage a stranger at a resort where I'm staying from buying retail. They are buying a dream that resale brokers can't match. CWA is a brilliant means of unloading those foreclosed dog-weeks.

I agree sales is what keeps the machine running but it shouldnt require lies to make it happen

The product is a good one and the system probably the best in the world of timeshares, Why do they have to spend 60% of the sales price to sell it and on top of that lie

I think the answer is that its overpriced. Reduce the price by half and stop the lying, and watch what happens

 

[TUGBrian]

I would completely disagree that new developer sales keep a system running, annual maintenance fees are far more important to an individual resort than retail sales prices.

this is why resales are so important, it provides the ability to replace one existing paying owner with another.

 

[Bigrob]

I agree sales is what keeps the machine running but it shouldnt require lies to make it happen

The product is a good one and the system probably the best in the world of timeshares, Why do they have to spend 60% of the sales price to sell it and on top of that lie

I think the answer is that its overpriced. Reduce the price by half and stop the lying, and watch what happens

I too am frustrated by sales tactics. It gives the resorts, the timeshare experience, and the timesharing industry in general a bad name. However, having said that, I'm not sure cutting the price in half would address this; when I review the complaints at BBB, the price itself is not generally the biggest point of contention. It is unfulfilled promises and statements that are just not true. Those promises take various forms; whether it is the promise of an exit strategy, ability to rent for profit, or availability that doesn't generally exist.

Sometimes I wonder why this is, especially when they talk to an owner like me. For example; at my recent owner update, I was told that of course I didn't have ARP on my resale points, only on my developer-purchased points. Wouldn't they think that if I'm in that category of having more than 100 Guest Confirmations I might just know that isn't true? Why tell such an obvious lie?

Supposedly they were trying to address the sales process and make it a more professional, streamlined, and lower pressure experience (and hopefully sprinkled with more useful, factual information). Based on my recent experience, it seems there is still some room to improve. And here's another thing that bugged me; I was checking on something specific, and what I wanted I stated clearly, and if they could have done it, I would have bought.

It turns out they had what I was looking for, but were not able/willing to do what I wanted; instead of working on that and trying to get closer on what I was actually looking for, they kept coming back with stuff that was nothing like what I wanted. If I'm trying to buy a Tesla, please stop showing me a Ford F150.

 

[Bigrob]

I would completely disagree that new developer sales keep a system running, annual maintenance fees are far more important to an individual resort than retail sales prices.

this is why resales are so important, it provides the ability to replace one existing paying owner with another.

I often agree with you, but on this point we will have to disagree. Sales is the engine the fuels growth within the Wyndham system. Maintenance fees keep the lights on at the existing resorts, and of course are vitally important; but the maintenance fees being paid does not help get new resorts in new locations on the map, which helps to make all of our ownerships more valuable by giving us more options.

I would change the statement to; "it is new developer sales that keeps a system GROWING"... and it is that growth that is important to keep the system vibrant and attractive in the future. As much as we enjoyed visiting Fairfield Glade in the past... if Wyndham Smoky Mountains and Great Smokies Lodge had not been added, we would have lost interest in visiting TN long ago. Having new options to visit New York, Chicago, Beaver Creek, Park City, etc. etc. is definitely dependent on developer sales.

 

[raygo123]

I have enjoyed it for years. Wife will be retiring in a couple years so this was the time to do it. In 2013, we bought 190,000 points, and along with our two Vida weeks became VIP silver. Two things happened at that presentation, first, VIP, second which was verified, we were given permanent status, treated us as first time buyers. Also simplified process. I also have no desire to go further as we have bought additional points to VIP gold. We were at $160/1000 and we ended up with another 25% discount. I felt now was the time to pull the trigger. Then in may of this year Wyndham offered us the same price, and we bought more. In the long run we felt this to be the right decision for us, and the children if they so desire. I also feel that over time Wyndham is going to make it harder for resale to do business. With them. We always paid cash.

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[TUGBrian]

as far as the resort itself is concerned, its all about MF's....one needs to remember that easily 50-60% of the retail price is all tied up in marketing.

now one could argue that this staggering amount of money goes a long way into furthering the product of timesharing itself (as after all, its no doubt what entices most new owners to buy a timeshare in the first place).

However as far as a resort is concerned, maint fees are a far larger % of the bottom line than retail sales. Once you cover the expenses (both marketing, and labor costs for the sales force)....you are only talking a few years worth of maint fees....and owners are all expected to remain owners for longer than a few years.

I guess the disconnect is how one interprets the question....are we talking about timesharing in terms of a resort....or of a developer.