Advice needed: Risk of dumping Wyndham (asking for a friend)

[Crafty71]

Hello,

I have some friends that have owned at a particular VT resort (I think you can guess which one) for 30+ years. They started with fixed weeks, then went to RCI Points and then went to Wyndham Points.

For them, switching to Wyndham Points was costly and did not provide the advantages they had hoped for (had been promised).

They asked me for advice on how to get out (they were getting ready to sent money to an exit company, which I told them not to do).

I suggested they look at Certified Exit (basically a re-branded Ovations, as far as I can tell). However, they were victims of credit card fraud a few months ago and had to switch account numbers and never advised Wyndham of their new credit card info for the monthly MF, so now they are a few months in arrears. In order to use Certified Exit, they would have to "pay up" their MF (about $3K)...and all they really want is to get out...

Because they are Canadians, living in Canada, with no other property or investments in the U.S., I then suggested they simply not pay. I am pretty sure that I read on this great web forum called TUG that, as Canadians, Wyndham has not pursued similar instances on many different occasions (but I cannot seem to locate that info tonight). Am I right...? They will get a few threatening letters and then it will stop...

I would appreciate input from anyone (but preferably Canadians) with a "been there, done that" story or something else I can reassure my friends with.

Be well.

Cheers!

 

[Grammarhero]

Hello,

I have some friends that have owned at a particular VT resort (I think you can guess which one) for 30+ years. They started with fixed weeks, then went to RCI Points and then went to Wyndham Points.

For them, switching to Wyndham Points was costly and did not provide the advantages they had hoped for (had been promised).

They asked me for advice on how to get out (they were getting ready to sent money to an exit company, which I told them not to do).

I suggested they look at Certified Exit (basically a re-branded Ovations, as far as I can tell). However, they were victims of credit card fraud a few months ago and had to switch account numbers and never advised Wyndham of their new credit card info for the monthly MF, so now they are a few months in arrears. In order to use Certified Exit, they would have to "pay up" their MF (about $3K)...and all they really want is to get out...

Because they are Canadians, living in Canada, with no other property or investments in the U.S., I then suggested they simply not pay. I am pretty sure that I read on this great web forum called TUG that, as Canadians, Wyndham has not pursued similar instances on many different occasions (but I cannot seem to locate that info tonight). Am I right...? They will get a few threatening letters and then it will stop...

I would appreciate input from anyone (but preferably Canadians) with a "been there, done that" story or something else I can reassure my friends with.

Be well.

Cheers!

They may qualify for certified exit limited edition, which would give them 3 years free MF usage. So it may be worth it to pay up.

If it helps, out of 8 TS defaults by Canadians reported on TUG, 0 got reported to the Canadian credit agencies. Check out the links below. One Canadian MF defaulter was told to me in confidence, so I cannot reveal that. Out of 1 TS defaults by English reported on TUG, 0 got reported to the English credit agencies.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/timeshare-default-credit-report-collection-tracking.304138/

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/a...fees-what-happened.296893/page-7#post-2396547

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/canadian-with-a-timeshare-in-florida.298837/#post-2367946

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/a...fees-what-happened.296893/page-3#post-2352822

 

[Grammarhero]

If your friends make the hard decision to default, please kindly let us know if their credit got affected. It would help tuggers in similar situations moving forward.

 

[Crafty71]

Hey Grammarhero (and all other Wyndham owners...especially Canadian ones),

My friends are in the process of making the decision to default. They have not paid their MF in several months. I will continue to report back what the eventual outcome is, but...

Last week, they received a letter from Pinnacle Recovery in Carlsbad (CA), a collection agency. This made them a little nervous, but because it is an American company and they live in Canada, I doubt the company has much reach. Can anyone (especially the Canadian defaulters) confirm that this is all just part of the process...? TIA.

Cheers!

 

[troy12n]

If they feel it's worth destroying their credit for $3000.00... that's their choice. Not a choice I would make. No matter where in life I was.

I have seen several people report that they were in arrears because of a credit card number changed. It happened to me too, but literally they called me alerting me and also sent me emails when it first happened, so it seems strange that people report this. My thing was fixed on a phone call, no further issues.

 

[b2bailey]

It's a shame they allowed it to get so far behind. As mentioned above, I get a phone call the moment my monthly maintenance fee is late by just a few days, so am surprised they didn't know.

 

[troy12n]

It's a shame they allowed it to get so far behind. As mentioned above, I get a phone call the moment my monthly maintenance fee is late by just a few days, so am surprised they didn't know.

Also, I would have noticed myself when I got my monthly credit card statement and it was "light" that much money for one, let alone several months in a row...

 

[Crafty71]

Well, as previously mentioned, because they are Canadian citizens, there is a pretty good chance that their credit won't even take a hit. That is what has been reported thus far by other Canadians to TUG in 10/10 cases...but I was just wondering if any of the other 10 cases received a collection letter...

Cheers!

 

[wjappraise]

Well, as previously mentioned, because they are Canadian citizens, there is a pretty good chance that their credit won't even take a hit. That is what has been reported thus far by other Canadians to TUG in 10/10 cases...but I was just wondering if any of the other 10 cases received a collection letter...

Cheers!

I would guess all 10 received letters. Collection letters have a remarkably high success rate given the inherent threat such provide. There’s an implied threat when an agency gets involved that doesn’t exist with the original creditor. They use psychological techniques to artfully pressure debtors. They don’t have to have legal standing to mail a letter and imply they have a legal standing in a foreign country. So, the very fact a letter was sent doesn’t necessarily mean US debt has an impact on Canadian credit rating.

Here is an interesting link:

Collecting Across the Border

One of the questions that comes up is the issue of Canadian collection agencies collecting in the US, or American collection agencies c...

receivableaccounts.blogspot.com

I’d venture to say that Wyndham knows the cost to pursue the debt is higher than what they’d obtain. Perhaps a simple phone call letting Wyndham know a deed in lieu of foreclosure is acceptable to your friend would work. Wyndham is a shrewd business entity but it also knows when to “fold ‘em”. I’d suggest a phone call stating the hardship and wish to be rid of the liability.

Just one man’s opinion.

Wes

 

[troy12n]

I would guess all 10 received letters. Collection letters have a remarkably high success rate given the inherent threat such provide. There’s an implied threat when an agency gets involved that doesn’t exist with the original creditor. They use psychological techniques to artfully pressure debtors. They don’t have to have legal standing to mail a letter and imply they have a legal standing in a foreign country. So, the very fact a letter was sent doesn’t necessarily mean US debt has an impact on Canadian credit rating.

Here is an interesting link:

Collecting Across the Border

One of the questions that comes up is the issue of Canadian collection agencies collecting in the US, or American collection agencies c...

receivableaccounts.blogspot.com

I’d venture to say that Wyndham knows the cost to pursue the debt is higher than what they’d obtain. Perhaps a simple phone call letting Wyndham know a deed in lieu of foreclosure is acceptable to your friend would work. Wyndham is a shrewd business entity but it also knows when to “fold ‘em”. I’d suggest a phone call stating the hardship and wish to be rid of the liability.

My take after reading that article is that while it's legally possible to collect across borders, there is a financial barrier to do that. Wyndham would have to contract with a collection agency in Canada to handle those collections. But it could be done.

I guess the question is, would the proceeds of this be worth the financial cost or hassle. From reports, perhaps not.

 

[Ninjaneer80]

Any chance of getting caught up and having them list it on TUGG and see if anyone wants it ?

 

[dgalati]

Any chance of getting caught up and having them list it on TUGG and see if anyone wants it ?

The amount of past due maintenance fees alone would make a $0 cost sale very unlikely.

 

[theo]

Any chance of getting caught up and having them list it on TUGG and see if anyone wants it ?

If they make the decision to pay the $3k (...as of several months ago and obviously even more now) in unpaid fees to get "paid up", it would certainly be a faster and more direct avenue to then immediately use Wyndham's zero cost exit plan (formerly Ovations, recently relabeled as Certified Exit).

Even to "give it away for free" after ponying up that $3k+ would still then require someone to pay a (several hundred dollars) transfer fee to Wyndham, not to mention the many weeks it would take thereafter for Wyndham to actually get a p2p transfer completed.

In short, I personally would not recommend the additional complexity, time consumption and expense involved in a "giveaway". IMnsHO, particularly in view of the "two different countries" situation, those folks should either walk away right now without paying Wyndham another dime or pay the fees and promptly give it right back to Wyndham via Certified Exit. Personally, I'd opt for the former and walk away if Wyndham is (...as is most likely the case) unwilling to accept a "deed in lieu of" with $3k+ (and growing) currently in arrears.

It's also relevant to note that the third party "Pinnacle Recovery" entity has no leverage, no legal authority and no juice whatsoever. Like any other "collection agency", they would get a piece of whatever they can harass and harangue someone into paying (...but any percentage of zero = zero). Although an unwelcome (but temporary) annoyance, the collection agency should be summarily ignored. They will quit when they realize that they are drilling a "dry hole" and that their attempts at cross border intimidation are falling on deaf ears, ultimately yielding them nothing.

With no loan default involved, Wyndham would surely take no further action. After all, those folks have already put plenty of money into Wyndham's coffers over the past several decades. Concerns about a cross border credit "hit" over unpaid maintenance fees would be unfounded. In their situation, I would lace up my sneakers, turn around and walk away --- waving goodbye over my shoulder.

 

[Family_travel]

Just out of curiosity, even if there Canadian credit is not dinged would they not have a foreclosure at the American bureaus?
Either way it sound like the couple is DONE. Hindsight is 20/20 but it seems they should have done Certified Exit last year.

 

[Crafty71]

They "may" have a foreclosure on the American bureaus, but probably not because with no US address, no SSN, I am not sure how the American bureaus would "label" them with a foreclosure...and they will probably never need to apply for US credit, so who cares...

Cheers!

 

[md8287]

They "may" have a foreclosure on the American bureaus, but probably not because with no US address, no SSN, I am not sure how the American bureaus would "label" them with a foreclosure...and they will probably never need to apply for US credit, so who cares...

Cheers!

If they happen to own at Smugglers Notch - they have their own Ovations like program (I think its called "Farewell") that MAY have different terms re: past due amounts.