[ 2019 ] anyone has stopped paying maintenance fees, what happened ?

[Grammarhero]

I’m not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
I just looked up Hawai’i non judicial anti deficiency foreclosure:
Hawaii does have an anti-deficiency law, but it only applies to nonjudicial foreclosures. (Haw. Rev. Stat. § 667-38). Deficiency judgments are allowed in judicial foreclosures.
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Hawaii Home Foreclosure Laws | AllLaw

Seems like whether a TS has a loan or not will affect the foreclosure forum and chances for a deficiency judgment.

Initiating a judicial foreclosure action will typically cost $900: $300 for Complaint, $300 for first court appearance, and $300 for final court appearance.

If someone has a Ts with $30k mortgage left plus $1k MF, the Ts company may spend the $900 to pursue the $31k deficiency judgment.

However, it will be hard to justify spending $900 to pursue a $1k MF deficiency judgment.

Another reason to go resale! We go resale to: 1) obviously save $$$, 2) for Mf default, credit score decreases, judicial foreclosures, and deficiency judgments are less likely.

 

[Fredflintstone]

More legal research required.
It looks like Alaska, Minnesota, Montana, Oregon, or Washington might also have some anti-deficiency statutes. Of those, only Montana is a big TS state.

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/foreclosure/anti-deficiency-laws.html

This article looks geared towards homes not timeshares. For example, Florida has non judicial, anti deficiency when it comes to timeshares but not all real property as long as the non judicial is not contested (which is common)

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-timeshare-foreclosure-right-cancel-laws.html




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[Fredflintstone]

Seems like whether a TS has a loan or not will affect the foreclosure forum and chances for a deficiency judgment.

Initiating a judicial foreclosure action will typically cost $900: $300 for Complaint, $300 for first court appearance, and $300 for final court appearance.

If someone has a Ts with $30k mortgage left plus $1k MF, the Ts company may spend the $900 to pursue the $31k deficiency judgment.

However, it will be hard to justify spending $900 to pursue a $1k MF deficiency judgment.

Another reason to go resale! We go resale to: 1) obviously save $$$, 2) for Mf default, credit score decreases, judicial foreclosures, and deficiency judgments are less likely.

You are bang on on resale! All mine were resale and when I was done, it was painless to get rid of them. If I paid retail, I would have bit my lip and felt some pain!


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[controller1]

So far. The stats are: 7 out of 13 for their credit affected. 4 out of 9 for Ts without loans. 3 out of 4 for Ts with loans. Big difference for those with or without loans.

I can't disagree with your statistics but I can disagree with the statistical validity of them since the population is extremely small and the population is drawn from those volunteering information and not the population at-large.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Seems like whether a TS has a loan or not will affect the foreclosure forum and chances for a deficiency judgment.

Initiating a judicial foreclosure action will typically cost $900: $300 for Complaint, $300 for first court appearance, and $300 for final court appearance.

If someone has a Ts with $30k mortgage left plus $1k MF, the Ts company may spend the $900 to pursue the $31k deficiency judgment.

However, it will be hard to justify spending $900 to pursue a $1k MF deficiency judgment.

Another reason to go resale! We go resale to: 1) obviously save $$$, 2) for Mf default, credit score decreases, judicial foreclosures, and deficiency judgments are less likely.

This is spot on. Would cost them more in lawyer fees than to chase for $1k - $2k with low chances. Would be better to get a deedback so they can sell or rent more quickly to resume MF payments. Loans are a larger $ amount.

I was told that HGV offers their own loans so if there is a default they can easily recoup the unit, write off the loan, and turn it around to the next buyer. If there was a third party loan involved, that would be stickier.

It would be good to know which other companies have their own loan departments as this would effect how they make decisions.

 

[Fredflintstone]

This is spot on. Would cost them more in lawyer fees than to chase. Loans are a larger $ amount.

I was told that HGV offers their own loans so if there is a default they can easily recoup the unit, write off the loan, and turn it around to the next buyer. If there is a third party loan involved, that would be stickier.

Still better to pass on the loan, pay cash and buy resale.

Even to this day, it boggles my mind that someone would pay 15, 20, even 30 k for a week spot on a timeshare. As my dad used to say, “A fool and his money are soon parted.”


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[Grammarhero]

This is spot on. Would cost them more in lawyer fees than to chase. Would be better to get a deedback so they can sell or rent more quickly to resume MF payments. Loans are a larger $ amount.

I was told that HGV offers their own loans so if there is a default they can easily recoup the unit, write off the loan, and turn it around to the next buyer. If there was a third party loan involved, that would be stickier.

It would be good to know which other companies have their own loan departments as this would effect how they make decisions.

From what I've seen, Wastegate and Marriott have their own loan departments.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I can't disagree with your statistics but I can disagree with the statistical validity of them since the population is extremely small and the population is drawn from those volunteering information and not the population at-large.

Agree, but it's a start. We need more datapoints. Just as ROFR.net is not perfect it provides directional info and gets stronger as more people contribute datapoints.

 

[Grammarhero]

I can't disagree with your statistics but I can disagree with the statistical validity of them since the population is extremely small and the population is drawn from those volunteering information and not the population at-large.

I don't disagree with you. I would love hundreds of reports or data points. Unfortunately, not many people volunteer this information. Many TUG guests come on, post their situation, hear TUG advice, and simply leave without reporting what happened afterwards.

I'm trying to draw inferences based on limited samples.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

When I worked at a Fortune 100 company, there was a rule of thumb that they would not pursue legal action unless the loss was greater than $1 million. The legal fees are the reason. It's a business decision.

However, this doesn't stop them from asking their lawyers on retainer to be attack dogs and write letters. All bark no bite.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Have some of these companies moved to private legal resolution outside the courts to keep the costs down? (I can't remember the name of it.)

 

[Grammarhero]

Have some of these companies moved to private legal resolution outside the courts to keep the costs down? (I can't remember the name of it.)

Arbitration or meditation

 

[Fredflintstone]

When I worked at a Fortune 100 company, there was a rule of thumb that they would not pursue legal action unless the loss was greater than $1 million. The legal fees are the reason. It's a business decision.

However, this doesn't stop them from asking their lawyers on retainer to be attack dogs and write letters. All bark no bite.

Very true. We always recommend that we try to mediate and negotiate out of court if at all possible due to costs. Also, we don’t recommend trying the threatening letter approach. Either we can be civil through mediation, negotiation and sometimes through arbitration or we file. Threatening just gets people’s backs up. The court systems are adversarial enough.

Usually, both parties can come up with an amicable solution if handled correctly. That’s why I applaud some TS companies on their deed back programs. They are starting to realize that everyone wins if everyone is willing to discuss.

One of my pet peeves is when I see threats in resort newsletters to “delinquent owners” stating the punishment to be delivered for non payers. In my view, that just won’t work. Assume people will pay up or sell off or negotiate an out directly WITHOUT cancellation or exit companies.


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[Grammarhero]

Very true. We always recommend that we try to mediate and negotiate out of court if at all possible due to costs. Also, we don’t recommend trying the threatening letter approach. Either we can be civil through mediation, negotiation and sometimes through arbitration or we file. Threatening just gets people’s backs up. The court systems are adversarial enough.

Usually, both parties can come up with an amicable solution if handled correctly. That’s why I applaud some TS companies on their deed back programs. They are starting to realize that everyone wins if everyone is willing to discuss.

One of my pet peeves is when I see threats in resort newsletters to “delinquent owners” stating the punishment to be delivered for non payers. In my view, that just won’t work. Assume people will pay up or sell off or negotiate an out directly WITHOUT cancellation or exit companies.


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Are you on the HOA board of a TS?

 

[Fredflintstone]

Are you on the HOA board of a TS?

No.


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[Fredflintstone]

I work for an International Law firm. We do a lot of business between the US and Canada. I am based in Canada and serve corporate clients (mainly) who have operations in both Canada and the US. So, I need to brush up on both legal systems. Thank God they both have British Law roots.

Timeshare law is a hobby, along with going on vacation.


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[Makai Guy]

Arbitration or meditation

Uh... mediation, maybe?

 

[Grammarhero]

Uh... mediation, maybe?

Yes. That was misspelled. Lol. Some Grammarhero I am.

 

[chaparrusa]

Good point. Unless they have an office in the USA, I don't think they can go after your credit or take legal action. I know Villa de Palmar has an office in San Diego and takes payments there, probably for this reason.

There is a Canadian on another thread where Grandview, LV was asking for $2,700 ($3300 CDN) to deed back a 1 bdrm. IMO that is extortion for a property that has only $450/year MF. That's like paying out 6 years of ownership in advance just to deed it back. Yet the developer can turn around and sell or rent it out immediately! Perhaps the Canadian owner could walk similar to the case above because a US entity cannot report to Canadian credit bureaus nor cost-effectively pursue legal action so the owner could avoid this ridiculously high fee if s/he cannot give it away.

@TUGBrian Perhaps ARDA could work on putting a cap on such fees with their promotional program so-called "Responsible Exit?" If not, we need legislation because this is extortion and the industry is promoting "Responsible Exit" to sell more timeshares, but they are not disclosing the inordinately high, uncapped fees to deedback. i.e. the developers get the benefit of selling this industry program but there is no limit as to how much they can charge.

in reply to the canadian owner case.
i do know that Grandview does not take people from most countries other than mexicans ,australians and americans on their presentations , it seems like they could not enforce payment for people from those nationalities .they also dont accept people from other countries to transfer from re-sale .

 

[gatorray]

Foreclosure laws are applicable wherever the timeshare is located. You living in another state does not matter.

From what I know, incorporation in another state does not absolve the timeshare laws to where the timeshare is actually located. It’s like you having a vacation home in California, the real estate laws in California apply regardless of where you live or where you incorporated. The advantage of incorporating in another state only applies to corporate law and income taxes. Property taxes are a local right.

Yes, I understand in Nevada, non judicial, anti deficiency laws apply to only primary residences.

The list is here:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-foreclosure-works-30066-2.html

Remember: A state can have non judicial rules but still allow deficiency judgements. You have to take anti deficiency laws state by state.


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Unfortunately this list from a law firm is not helpful for those who own in Florida or SC as neither are noted. Any other resource to review?

 

[DazedandConfused]

Here is a novel idea - send a letter to the timeshare company and state that you are a relative and that the owner has died and is now a permanent resident at (insert name of cemetary).

 

[Larry M]

If your resort won't take it back, there is a bargain forum here where u can give it away. Depending on what resort, season, cost of main. fees per year, you never know, someone may take it. There are many bargains here that are snapped up depending on those factors

I would definitely recommend asking the resort to take it back before stopping maintenance payments. I did this and received a letter from the resort asking for $150 for legal fees, and sending the check was an easy decision. This was around 2006, when takebacks weren't nearly as common.

 

[AZSadOwner]

I've done this twice now. The first one was in Arizona. I called them to tell them I was ready to give it back to them. They gave me all kinds of reasons why that was not possible but after I stopped paying my MF for 2 or 3 years, they finally sent me a foreclosure notice. My credit score only dropped about 75 pts for about a year but then I have a pretty high score and it didn't affect my wife's score in case I ever needed more credit. I have another biannual one in Las Vegas that I stopped paying 3 or 4 years ago and once a year or so I get a collection agency letter but that's all and that one hasn't affected my credit score.

 

[AZSadOwner]

There is a Canadian on another thread where Grandview, LV was asking for $2,700 ($3300 CDN) to deed back a 1 bdrm. IMO that is extortion for a property that has only $450/year MF. That's like paying out 6 years of ownership in advance just to deed it back. Yet the developer can turn around and sell or rent it out immediately! Perhaps the Canadian owner could walk similar to the case above because a US entity cannot report to Canadian credit bureaus nor cost-effectively pursue legal action so the owner could avoid this ridiculously high fee if s/he cannot give it away.

CalGal was this on a TUG thread or on another forum ? I'm interested because I'm dealing with Grandview also.

 

[clfieguth]

i am trying to get an answer from someone who has actually stopped paying maintenance fees , so unless you are the one , please keep speculation to yourself .secondly i am referring specifically about HOA fees , NOT mortgage payments that i completely understand the consequences . help will be appreciate it
thanks

We have stopped paying to both of our timeshare properties about 2 years or so ago. One has totally abandoned attempts to collect and the other turned the account over to a collection agency. The latter have been more persistent; but the attempts to collect are getting less. We have "call-blocked" them, so all they have now is regular mail which I am sure they will give up on soon as well. As we are from Canada, their ability to collect is almost impossible and to this point we have not noticed any change to our credit score; which we really don't care about anyway.
I advised both TS's that they had best foreclose or whatever, as they were not going to receive any money from us and sell it to someone else in order to maintain the flow of maint and tax payments. Our reasons for getting out of the arrangements was that our health is not good, our travel insurance premiums are too high and our children do not want them. So we we were stuck as to what to do. With articles appearing on TUG we proceeded with our exit strategy which we were confident was the only way out for us. Selling in the Marketplace seems difficult and would involve legal help and likely costs as well. So for us, the simple way was to advise them that we are refusing to make future M&T payments and play "hardball" So far it is working!