Access to Abound is up!

[zjhasan1976]

I guess website can't handle the load?

 

[timsi]

Maybe I am missing your point. The way I see it is that Marritott owns the inventory and they chose to deposit into Abound just like any other owner. I am agreeing with you. So why is this against the rules?

You are indeed missing the point. The "developer" is not given any special booking rights, or I could not find any, in the Vistana governing documents. Vistana, Marriott, MVC trust and so on are just owners like everyone else. This is true for any of the inventory they own, whether they rent out for $$$ or they want to make it available to Abound. The owners, regardless of the status have to compete for all the units during the home resort reservation period. These are the rules, whether you care about them or not. How come Abound can book in advance weeks that are not available to the resort owners? To make it worse, by doing so they also break the rule that mentions that during the home resort reservation period the exchangers do not have priority. Can you please tell me how 49, 50, 51 and 52 2023 Vistana weeks ended up Yesterday in Abound? I cannot check now, Vistana is currently down.

 

[dioxide45]

I suspect much of the seeding of initial investory is combing from multiple sources. Owners electing VOIs for points, owners that converted their VOIs to Bonvoy points or even in some cases owners that deposited to II (MVC will move inventory around to meet expected demands). There may also be unsolf Westin, Sheraton and Eventuras Flex inventory they can use to make certain resorts available. I believe there were a few other sources mentioned when MVC initially rolled out DC in 2010, but not all of the inventory we are seeing is necessarily owner or even Marriott owned inventory.

 

[ocdb8r]

Don’t you need to cancel at day 59 and re-book on day 50 for this to work? Isn’t that a bit risky? Or is there another way to do the puck trick?

I'm not sure where you get day 59 or day 50 from. The key dates for the discount are booking 60 days or less. The main point of the "Puck Trick" was to be able to get points back with zero risk. In this case, you use an existing reservation for which within 60 days or less you find the same availability. You can call owner services and they will hold that availability before canceling your existing reservation, then cancel and use the canceled points to confirm the reservation they held, netting you back 25% or 30% of your points in a holding account (meaning they are restricted to being used for other reservations only within the 60-day window).

What you may be referring to some jokingly called the "Pucker Trick" whereby at day 61 you cancel your reservation (resulting in all your points being returned to your account with no restrictions) on the basis of availability on that day and then hope the availability remains until the next day (day 60) when you could book at the discount....during which time while you wait in anticipation you may "pucker" a bit.

 

[timsi]

I don't think it's as simple as saying Marriott is grabbing up the best weeks to give them to Abound. There is definitely some sort of inventory management going on. My (pure speculation) based on about an hour of searching in Abound is that immediate availability is clearly tied to inventory MVC owns/controls and perhaps even the inventory that has been directly added to the DP points trust.

What leads me to think there's something like this going on? There is not a single Westin Nanea or Westin Los Cabos week available at any time that is currently searchable in Abound. Yet there is a TON of availability at Los Cabos in VSN (and keep in mind, this is a destination MVC has no resort in so I would imagine they would want to try to make some availability here) and there is even sporadic availability in VSN for Nanea.

What do these resorts have in common? They were never sold as weeks and as such MVC has had no opportunity to scoop up resales and dump them in the DP trust for direct Abound usage. Everything for these two resorts is in a committed points trust (which likely makes it more difficult (maybe not possible) for Marriott to shift actual ownership into the DP trust).

How do you know the developer does not own Cabos through Westin Aventuras? How do you know the developer does not own any Nanea? Just look at all the Interval Nanea deposits in the last year. How come so many Westin Lagunamar are in Abound? I do not understand your theory.

 

[dioxide45]

How do you know the developer does not own Cabos through Westin Aventuras? How do you know the developer does not own any Nanea? Just look at all the Interval Nanea deposits in the last year. How come so many Westin Lagunamar are in Abound? I do not understand your theory.

From what I understand, about 25% of Lagunamar is in Aventuras. Technically they could use all unsold or Marriott owned Aventuras HomeOptions to allocate a bunch of Lagunamar to Abound and not as much Cabo or Cancun Resort & Spa to Abound. They can shift and shuffle what they need in and out of Abounda s needed.

 

[NJDave]

This seems like an obvious strategy to me. I never was quite sure why a (former?) tugger got the honor of getting it named after him.

But I suspect his handle had a lot do to with it. If either of you were the ones to mention it first, it probably would not be called the "ocd Trick" or "dsm Trick"

It could have been called the OCD Trick because some of us Tuggers are OCD about getting the most out of our points. . I am Executive Level with the combination with Vistana. I will certainly be looking to use this strategy now that I'm eligible.

 

[ocdb8r]

How do you know the developer does not own Cabos through Westin Aventuras? How do you know the developer does not own any Nanea? Just look at all the Interval Nanea deposits in the last year. How come so many Westin Lagunamar are in Abound? I do not understand your theory.

Read the whole post; because they would own/control via the Aventuras and Nanea trusts - such ownerships cannot be directly added to the DP Trust (they have to be added via the "exchange" mechanism they've created. Lagunamar was 75% sold as weeks and not via a trust. As was posted in another thread, MVC has been deeding many Vistana weeks it owns directly into the DP Trust. I'm not saying they won't be able to eventually shift inventory into Abound, just that it likely requires a bit more behind the scenes maneuvering.

 

[timsi]

From what I understand, about 25% of Lagunamar is in Aventuras. Technically they could use all unsold or Marriott owned Aventuras HomeOptions to allocate a bunch of Lagunamar to Abound and not as much Cabo or Cancun Resort & Spa to Abound. They can shift and shuffle what they need in and out of Abounda s needed.

"Allocate" is not a word I find in any resort governing documents, so I do not see how the developer can block a number of units that are no longer available to the resort owners and give them to exchangers.

 

[timsi]

Read the whole post; because they would own/control via the Aventuras and Nanea trusts - such ownerships cannot be directly added to the DP Trust (they have to be added via the "exchange" mechanism they've created. Lagunamar was 75% sold as weeks and not via a trust. As was posted in another thread, MVC has been deeding many Vistana weeks it owns directly into the DP Trust. I'm not saying they won't be able to eventually shift inventory into Abound, just that it likely requires a bit more behind the scenes maneuvering.

I did not see any other Vistana inventory conveyed to the trust aside for the 3 resorts mentioned few months ago (August) by Dioxide45, and Lagunamar and many others available through Abound were not among them.

 

[TravelTime]

I'm not sure where you get day 59 or day 50 from. The key dates for the discount are booking 60 days or less. The main point of the "Puck Trick" was to be able to get points back with zero risk. In this case, you use an existing reservation for which within 60 days or less you find the same availability. You can call owner services and they will hold that availability before canceling your existing reservation, then cancel and use the canceled points to confirm the reservation they held, netting you back 25% or 30% of your points in a holding account (meaning they are restricted to being used for other reservations only within the 60-day window).

What you may be referring to some jokingly called the "Pucker Trick" whereby at day 61 you cancel your reservation (resulting in all your points being returned to your account with no restrictions) on the basis of availability on that day and then hope the availability remains until the next day (day 60) when you could book at the discount....during which time while you wait in anticipation you may "pucker" a bit.

I meant day 60. So you can hold inventory on day 60 and re-book? I thought that was not allowed. Would it would be allowed since the points would go into holding and then use the holding points to rebook at the 60 day mark? Is that the strategy?

 

[dioxide45]

"Allocate" is not a word I find in any resort governing documents, so I do not see how the developer can block a number of units that are no longer available to the resort owners and give them to exchangers.

Time to get your screen shots and get your legal team ready. That will be your only source of remedy. Hashing out the same stuff now (post Abount go live) as you did pre-go live won’t get you anywhere to a solution.

 

[CPNY]

I got an email with subject "View Your New Owner Benefit Level and Election Value" from "The Marriott Vacation Clubs" mid-day Wed that happens to say "ABOUND IS NOW LIVE" in the body along with some minimal info.

i would call that an official announcement, just not a very obvious/good one...

A lot of people never received such email, myself included. Luckily I had an inkling that the rollout was happening yesterday so I checked at 6:30am when the vistana site was supposed to be up from “some much needed R&R”. It was then pushed to 8:45am, I signed on at that time to see that Abound was up!

 

[TravelTime]

Before the launch, I read mostly negative things and many Tuggers mostly saying they would not elect Abound points. Now on Tug and Facebook, I am reading that many people are electing points. I elected points since I mostly want to book outside the Vistana network and get the 12 month booking window. I guess Abound is pretty popular.

 

[ocdb8r]

I meant day 60. So you can hold inventory on day 60 and re-book? I thought that was not allowed. Would it would be allowed since the points would go into holding and then use the holding points to rebook at the 60 day mark? Is that the strategy?

Exactly. There is nothing in the rules preventing you from canceling your reservation on day 60 (or less) EXCEPT that such cancelations put the points in the holding account that can only be used for other reservations within 60 days. The "trick" part of it all is that Owner Services will (normally) hold the new reservation for you BEFORE you cancel the existing reservation, thus reducing the risk to nil.

 

[TravelTime]

A lot of people never received such email, myself included. Luckily I had an inkling that the rollout was happening yesterday so I checked at 6:30am when the vistana site was supposed to be up from “some much needed R&R”. It was then pushed to 8:45am, I signed on at that time to see that Abound was up!

I found out through Tug and looked at inventory to add 3N in Maui to my existing 9N MOC reservation since I had been planning to stay at a hotel for the extra 3N. I searched at 9 am and only 4 months out (which is usually impossible for booking for Maui inventory esp 2BR OF like I really preferred) and saw that 2BR OV was available at WKOVRN and there were other good options at WKOVR. Then I called Vistana to help me elect points. Then I called Marriott to book the 2BR and one was still available. Actually when I first looked, the 2BR OV was available but when I called, they had 2BR OF available so I preferred that and booked it. I called rather than do everything online just to make sure I did not do anything wrong since it was day 1 of the launch.

 

[timsi]

Before the launch, I read mostly negative things and many Tuggers mostly saying they would not elect Abound points. Now on Tug and Facebook, I am reading that many people are electing points. I elected points since I mostly want to book outside the Vistana network and get the 12 month booking window. I guess Abound is pretty popular.

I can understand you may feel that some owners are more negative than they should be, based on your own interests and opinion. But it is pretty funny to conclude Abound is pretty popular among the Vistana owners (about 250,000 owners) based on few FB comments.

 

[CPNY]

Before the launch, I read mostly negative things and many Tuggers mostly saying they would not elect Abound points. Now on Tug and Facebook, I am reading that many people are electing points. I elected points since I mostly want to book outside the Vistana network and get the 12 month booking window. I guess Abound is pretty popular.

Of course people were going to convert immediately. You can’t really go by 10-15 people on tug who didn’t want to elect to convert as proof that Abound wouldn’t be popular. You’re reading that many people are converting…. Are those the same people who said that they would never convert? I’d convert if I wanted something out of the VSN.

The negative things from many tuggers was more about where the inventory was going and the frustration regarding the way the usage of their ownerships was changing. You were one of the “love it or leave it” mantra folks. You have your thoughts on the program and others have theirs.

 

[TravelTime]

-

 

[CPNY]

I found out through Tug and looked at inventory to add 3N in Maui to my existing 9N MOC reservation since I had been planning to stay at a hotel for the extra 3N. I searched at 9 am and only 4 months out (which is usually impossible for booking for Maui inventory esp 2BR OF like I really preferred) and saw that 2BR OV was available at WKOVRN and there were other good options at WKOVR. Then I called Vistana to help me elect points. Then I called Marriott to book the 2BR and one was still available. Actually when I first looked, the 2BR OV was available but when I called, they had 2BR OF available so I preferred that and booked it. I called rather than do everything online just to make sure I did not do anything wrong since it was day 1 of the launch.

That’s a great booking! Congrats! But Think about that…. OF 2 bedroom at WKORV in Abound at rollout and only 4 months out…. That unit has been extremely difficult (not impossible) to get at 8 months in the VSN. This lends credence to the “conspiracy theories” that Marriott would put some of the best inventory in Abound.

 

[timsi]

That’s a great booking! Congrats! But Think about that…. OF 2 bedroom at WKORV in Abound at rollout and only 4 months out…. That unit has been extremely difficult (not impossible) to get at 8 months in the VSN. This lends credence to the “conspiracy theories” that Marriott would put some of the best inventory in Abound.

Either there is a lot of great inventory in Abound, or Tuggers just have sheer luck finding Training weeks at WKV, oceanfront in Maui etc. I guess it was just pure luck for Traveltime, no other 3 oceanfront nights were available, except those 3.

Or maybe the "conspiracy theories" were upgraded to reality two hours after Abound became functional.

 

[SueDonJ]

Interesting that there is no discussion of the Abound launch on the Marriott board here. Since there is Vistana inventory available, I would think the Marriott only folks would be discussing this topic too.

Again, Abound isn't a "launch" for Marriott owners. A notice has been on our website for months that says Abound is the new name of the program we've been using for a decade-plus, formerly known as the Destination Club.

And yes, a thread about the integration of Vistana/the ability of Marriott Abound members to book into Vistana resorts was opened yesterday on the TUG Marriott forum: Westin / Sheraton properties are now available to book for MVC owners!

 

[DavidnRobin]

Anyone else not seeing some of their ownerships eligible for conversion? I have two resale units that I do not see as eligible when they should be. The post 8/9 resale however says that it’s not eligible.

Under “What I Own” on the Vistana website it now shows the Club Points associated with the VOI.

What does it show for your weeks?

While our Ownership qualifies for Chairman’s Club based on the MVC CPs values - the number of CPs they have for me is off by 6,350 points.
(15,675 CPs vs 22,025 CPs)
I wonder why? Including our previous WSJ weeks?

Also, based on the MF/CP - it looks like WKV P+ has a slightly better value (0.44/CP) than WKORV OFD (0.45/CP).

I assume that WKORV OFC and WKORVN OF has even a better MF/CP value due to lower MFs.

I wonder if there are other Vistana VOIs that offer similar values?

It would be good to see these actual values for various VSN VOIs now that 2023 MFs and associated CPs have been published.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SueDonJ]

"Allocate" is not a word I find in any resort governing documents, so I do not see how the developer can block a number of units that are no longer available to the resort owners and give them to exchangers.

None of us knows if that pre-booking is the process that Marriott uses to manipulate intervals via the Abound Exchange Company. I happen to think that's not what they do, that the system is designed to book all reservations in realtime with all intervals coded in such a way that the rights of owners, members and Marriott aren't violated (Post #36.) But regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, just getting to the point where you know for sure how the system works is going to take some legal wrangling that will force you to be prepared for Marriott to push back using any and every legal process available to them. Good luck!

 

[ConejoRed]

Noticed they added 2025 to the list of options to elect points (was not there on Monday). I assume if I elected now, that would immediately release our fixed week 20 for that year and I wonder what would happen if I elected 2025, but not 2023. Do the 2025 points then become available to "borrow" against... skipping 2024 (haven't released the fixed week yet) etc.?