Access to Abound is up!

[CPNY]

I noticed the same thing. But they had said that the changes to VSN banking (both the length and the banking deadlines) were not going to take effect until (IIRC) 2024. So I am *assuming* that the chart will change in a year or two.

If they are actually keeping the VSN banking policies the same and the announced changes only apply to Abound, that would be great. But I think they just gave us a short respite before reducing the elite benefits on the VSN side too.

Right. I do think you’re correct, it was late and I had a bottle of wine lol I totally forgot that those changes were to take effect going forward.

 

[timsi]

It will have an effect on the inventory. The problem is that it is impossible to know how many units they block for each week for each bucket. Because the prime weeks have more value in Abound vs the adjacent weeks within the same season (and the same value in VSN), Marriott has an economic incentive to give more prime weeks to Abound and leave less interesting inventory in VSN. On surface they are not breaking any rule, but this can create an important surplus of MVC points for the developer. This is one of the reasons I am suspicious of the fact they do not provide more details about how they divide the inventory.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Say the Abound trust owns 100 units of equal value, worth 10,000 points each, so the trust owns 1,000,000 points. Say the Vistana owners deposit 30 units into Abound, worth 10,000 points each. The total trading power of all Trust owners and exchangers is now 1,300,000 points. Say instead of giving Abound “average” inventory, Vistana allocates to Abound weeks that are not worth 10,000 points in average but 14,000 points (more Presidents week, Thanksgiving, Easter etc) even if they are at the same resorts and the same season. The total value of the Abound inventory is now 1,420,000 but the trading power is just 1,300,000. What will happen with the difference of 120,000 points that cannot be booked by the owners because they do not have enough points? Can they rent that inventory? Use it for sales tours? Give it to Bonvoy and receive points (that they can sell or use?) . I ignored the skim for this example.

I wish Marriott made public how they allocate the inventory. Rather odd they do not want to do it.

 

[ocdb8r]

What will happen with the difference of 120,000 points that cannot be booked by the owners because they do not have enough points? Can they rent that inventory? Use it for sales tours? Give it to Bonvoy and receive points (that they can sell or use?) . I ignored the skim for this example.

I think they are able to do with it as they please. I know not a satisfying answer, but I have long assumed skim as well as this sort of "slack" is likely within MVC's purview under the DC Trust documents to do with as they wish. I am sure they monetize as much of it as possible, but I also believe they use this as additional buffer to keep the wheels of the system greased. I don't think MVC is "altruistic" but I do think they know that making the system "work" for the vast majority of owners is in their greater interests (even greater than immediate satisfaction they might get from trying to monetize that inventory at all costs).

Don't forget, there are ways some owners benefit from this as well....those 30% last minute points booking discounts have to be funded from somewhere, and I have no doubt "skim" and the sort of "slack" you describe above enables this to some degree.

Bottom line, I don't think it's inappropriate to be skeptical of MVC at some points and I (like you) have some hard lines I think clearly should not be crossed (I am in 100% agreement that there should be virtually no Vistana inventory made available more than 12 months out in Abound - save for in the case that Abound gets some of the limited fixed week / fix unit inventory that is reserved more than 12 months out automatically).

 

[YYJMSP]

if you are currently able to elect 2024, does that not imply you have just made Vistana units available in Abound more than 12mos out, as you just assigned your usage rights more than a year into the future?

that may be another source of inventory being seen...

 

[ocdb8r]

if you are currently able to elect 2024, does that not imply you have just made Vistana units available in Abound more than 12mos out, as you just assigned your usage rights more than a year into the future?

that may be another source of inventory being seen...

No, because theoretically at MOST you have only assigned what rights you have to the inventory you turned in for "election" which for most owners would be to reserve a unit at your home resort (or home trust resorts) 12 months out. You can't give Marriott something you don't have. The only exception to this that I see is for owners of fixed week / fixed unit weeks which are reserved further out than 12 months.

Some (like timsi) will add that they believe the rights you assign as part of your "election" are further restricted by the HOA docs that say only "owners" may exercise their reservation rights at 12 months and everyone else has to wait until the 8 month mark. I think that's up for interpretation and Marriott clearly believes when you elect you give it the right to act like an owner of whatever you elected.

 

[SueDonJ]

FYI, We Marriott owners have started receiving emails announcing the addition of Vistana resorts into Abound. For whatever it might be worth to anybody, copy/paste of text below:

Sender: The Marriott Vacation Clubs (themarriottvacationclubs@email1.marriott-vacations.com)
Date: Fri, Dec 2, 2022 1:02 pm

ABOUND NOW OFFERS MORE​

A more fulfilling vacation life starts here. Through affiliation with the Vistana Signature Network® (VSN), Abound by Marriott Vacations™ gives you access to Sheraton® Vacation Club and Westin® Vacation Club resorts — all using the shared vacation currency of Club Points.

SIMPLY MORE​

As previously announced, the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations®Exchange Program is now called Abound by Marriott Vacations. It’s a complement to how you use your vacation ownership today. The Abound exchange program now encompasses an expanded collection of premium vacation properties, including Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts, which can be reserved for stays using Club Points beginning in 2023.

Relax on sandy beaches touched by warm waters in Cancún and Los Cabos, Mexico.
Play at four additional Colorado properties, including the only full-service ski-in/ski-out resort in Steamboat Springs.
Savor more authentic island experiences on Maui and Kauaʻi in Hawaiʻi.
Embark on more travel experiences, including cruises, hotels, and guided tours to name a few.

MORE DESTINATIONS​

Through Abound, you can now use Club Points to reserve stays at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts. Please note, for reservations beginning with the 2023 Use Year, we anticipate limited availability at Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club resorts until members of the VSN® elect to participate in Abound. As more participate, additional inventory at these resorts will be available for future reservations.

To search for resort availability, log in to your Owner website at marriottvacationclub.com.

©2022 Marriott Vacation Club International. All Rights Reserved. Marriott Vacation Club International and the programs and products provided under the Marriott Vacation Club, Sheraton Vacation Club, Westin Vacation Club, Grand Residences by Marriott, and The Ritz-Carlton Club brands are not owned, developed, or sold by Marriott International, Inc. Marriott Vacation Club International uses the Marriott marks under license from Marriott International, Inc. and its affiliates.

​

 

[buzglyd]

I have a couple of thoughts/questions:

I’m an odd year Bella owner 81k. I see the option to convert to 2825 Abound points. If I elect to convert and then don’t use all or some of those points, can I bank them into the following year (2024)?

I’ve got some banked Star Options now from 2021 that I didn’t use and must be used this year in Vistana’s system.

I”ve got some issues at home with parents in and out of the hospital so planning travel is so difficult right now.

 

[SueDonJ]

I have a couple of thoughts/questions:

I’m an odd year Bella owner 81k. I see the option to convert to 2825 Abound points. If I elect to convert and then don’t use all or some of those points, can I bank them into the following year (2024)?

I’ve got some banked Star Options now from 2021 that I didn’t use and must be used this year in Vistana’s system.

I”ve got some issues at home with parents in and out of the hospital so planning travel is so difficult right now.

FWIW that's how it works with Marriott owners who elect Abound Points, you can bank the entire amount or a portion of points from a single election forward, as long as you do the banking transaction prior to the banking deadline. The Benefits At A Glance chart shows the banking deadlines and rules based on Abound status tiers.

 

[timsi]

No, because theoretically at MOST you have only assigned what rights you have to the inventory you turned in for "election" which for most owners would be to reserve a unit at your home resort (or home trust resorts) 12 months out. You can't give Marriott something you don't have. The only exception to this that I see is for owners of fixed week / fixed unit weeks which are reserved further out than 12 months.







Some (like timsi) will add that they believe the rights you assign as part of your "election" are further restricted by the HOA docs that say only "owners" may exercise their reservation rights at 12 months and everyone else has to wait until the 8 month mark. I think that's up for interpretation and Marriott clearly believes when you elect you give it the right to act like an owner of whatever you elected.

I will add that when you borrow from 2024 you do not free up inventory for December 2023 (or any other month in 2023). I will also add that by depositing in Abound you cannot assign to others' rights that are just for the owners at a resort (like the right to book during the home resort reservation period.)

 

[Troyrissa]

There is no Marriott inventory now so they had to book Westin for 2023 if they want something. They might choose Marriott or Westin if both were available now. I would have preferred to get my additional 3 days at MOC since I have 9 days there. But it has not been available for a long time. So I booked into a Westin. Now we have to change resorts after the first 3 days. You are creating conspiracy theories with this comment! ha ha

When you say there is no Marriott inventory do you mean for Hawaii? I think you said you booked for the spring. So is there inventory for later in 2023 for Hawaii? I’m interested in electing points for next year only if I can go to Hawaii. Otherwise I will stay in vistana or take a chance with interval.

 

[pchung6]

Just a quick question, I have some left over Staroptions points banked until 2024. My question is can I elect these banked points to Marriott DC points so I can book few additional MKO nights in 2023? Vistana doesn't let me select banked points and only my 2023 weeks are available to elect.

 

[alexadeparis]

Just a quick question, I have some left over Staroptions points banked until 2024. My question is can I elect these banked points to Marriott DC points so I can book few additional MKO nights in 2023? Vistana doesn't let me select banked points and only my 2023 weeks are available to elect.

no once they are banked in either system, they stay

 

[toddvb20]

I have a SDO 2BDR lock off. Does Abound make any difference to me or do you need to have a mandatory resort.

Thank you!

 

[alexadeparis]

I have a SDO 2BDR lock off. Does Abound make any difference to me or do you need to have a mandatory resort.

Thank you!

the reports are as long as you owned mandatory before the cutoff date this summer (July 8?) you will be folded into abound even if you weren't originally an original or requalified owner

 

[sponger76]

the reports are as long as you owned it before the cutoff date this summer (July 8?) you will be folded into abound even if you weren't originally an original or requalified owner

Not if it is a resale voluntary resort that was never requalified.

 

[ocdb8r]

the reports are as long as you owned it before the cutoff date this summer (July 8?) you will be folded into abound even if you weren't originally an original or requalified owner

Nope - must be mandatory owners purchased before August 9, 2022. Voluntary VOIs are not eligible unless otherwise enrolled in VSN (by being a direct purchaser or by requalifying such week).

Curious if any post-August mandatory owners are seeing access anyhow?

 

[TravelTime]

When you say there is no Marriott inventory do you mean for Hawaii? I think you said you booked for the spring. So is there inventory for later in 2023 for Hawaii? I’m interested in electing points for next year only if I can go to Hawaii. Otherwise I will stay in vistana or take a chance with interval.

I have only been looking at Maui since that is what I was trying to get 3 extra days in a 2BR as an add-on to our 9 days in April. I was able to get the extra 3 days in a 2BR OF at WKOVRN but I had been checking for months for the extra days at one of the MOCs in a 1BR or 2BR in any view type and it was impossible. Now I am seeing a lot more inventory In the Westins in Maui.but not much at the Marriotts in Maui. It varies a lot day to day.

 

[CPNY]

Can anyone check inventory without having points? I’d convert only if what I want is available.

 

[buzglyd]

Can anyone check inventory without having points? I’d convert only if what I want is available.

Yes you can check. It will then say you don't have enough points to confirm it.

 

[timsi]

I think they are able to do with it as they please. I know not a satisfying answer, but I have long assumed skim as well as this sort of "slack" is likely within MVC's purview under the DC Trust documents to do with as they wish. I am sure they monetize as much of it as possible, but I also believe they use this as additional buffer to keep the wheels of the system greased. I don't think MVC is "altruistic" but I do think they know that making the system "work" for the vast majority of owners is in their greater interests (even greater than immediate satisfaction they might get from trying to monetize that inventory at all costs).

Don't forget, there are ways some owners benefit from this as well....those 30% last minute points booking discounts have to be funded from somewhere, and I have no doubt "skim" and the sort of "slack" you describe above enables this to some degree.

Bottom line, I don't think it's inappropriate to be skeptical of MVC at some points and I (like you) have some hard lines I think clearly should not be crossed (I am in 100% agreement that there should be virtually no Vistana inventory made available more than 12 months out in Abound - save for in the case that Abound gets some of the limited fixed week / fix unit inventory that is reserved more than 12 months out automatically).

I was not referring to the skim, and I mentioned it. The points I was referring to are prime points, that can be planned in advanced, rented etc, not just mostly useless leftover nights available less than 60 days before checkin. The developer can benefit from this strategy if Abound gets better weeks than VSN (within the same season of course) and create a nice surplus they can benefit from. By the way, only those with status can get the leftovers with a 30% discount. Marriott said that the average owner has 1.5 weeks, and when you take into account that they are not all high season or the most expensive resorts, most owners do not have status. You would not be able to tell this from this site, most people here own many weeks.


The skim is extra, and it is not really necessary for inventory management as Vistana showed since we have none, it is just a “tax” on both sides of the trade. Also, in any system, even if sold 100%, you never have 100% of the owners who book and travel 100% year after year. Also, nobody knows what inventory is given to owners with a discount at less than 60 days and what inventory is kept by the developer anyways, so it is hard to say it is done for the benefit of the owners. However I have to say that the skim is fair because it is known in advance. Given better weeks to Abound than to Vistana is not.

 

[CPNY]

Yes you can check. It will then say you don't have enough points to confirm it.

I’m checking for Ritz and it’s saying it’s out of my booking window. When can we book a ritz property?

 

[SueDonJ]

I’m checking for Ritz and it’s saying it’s out of my booking window. When can we book a ritz property?

Check the rules in the Benefits At A Glance chart that's linked in Post #233 above.

 

[dioxide45]

Can anyone check inventory without having points? I’d convert only if what I want is available.

You can, kind of. You can check a resort and see if a night is available at the resort in any unit size or view, but you really can’t see exactly what is available at the resort. Just that SOMETHING is available. I have 200 points in our Account and I can see anything that is available that is less than 200 points, but once I try to see if something that costs more than 200 is available, I can’t. I can just see that a night is available or not available at a resort. Easy for resorts with no views and only one unit size, but hard for resorts on the ocean with lock off units.

 

[dioxide45]

I’m checking for Ritz and it’s saying it’s out of my booking window. When can we book a ritz property?

Ritz may also have a three night minimum.

 

[luv_maui]

24 HRS after reporting the issue and I still don’t have my club points in my account