Abound! The combined Marriott/Vistana integrated exchange program now has a name.

[dioxide45]

Noob here posting for the first time here, and a Vistana owner (4 star between Nanea and Mexico)

I am at the Nanea right now and had our 'owner update' yesterday.

Abound is new to sales and they are still in training BUT a couple of tidbits I haven't seen here while lurking (may be mentioned elsewhere, but... like I said... I haven't seen them)

1) Abound status levels are named the same as the current MVC system. I am not MVC but the implication was MVC status matches 1 for 1 with Abound

2) President and Chairman level get Titanium status in Marriot Bonvoy annually

3) Vistana owners get Abound status based on a conversation system that *initially* is a flat starpoint ratio.

4) after that initial status conversion, which property you own and how you own in the Vistana system will impact status. This keeps people from stacking points from cheaper properties to get status.

5) status will mater more in the combined program. They were vague on specifics and said they'd be fired if their management saw the new chairman perks on social media.

6) take 4 and 5 above with a grain of salt since these are salespeople selling something they can't specify or be pinned down on. That said I haven't been mislead by a Vistana salesperson before. Strong selling? Sure. Lied to? no.

7) Some 4 star Vistana members will qualify at chairman status. We were on the bubble and bought to level up. Good decision? We like the Nanea and now have 11 days for a 2 bedroom or 3 weeks for a hard-to-reserve 1 bedroom. So if Abound turns out to be a bust, we have what we like.

Anyways, take that for what it is worth. What caught my eye was Titanium status on the printed Abound status chart.

I am a Titanium now, based on my business travel. We bought our Vistana timeshares with my wife as primary, so now we will both be Titanium, each with suite nights each year (per the sales manager)

I sense there will be an significant integration with the Bonvoy program (deeper than before and deeper than with Vistana SPG) but that is my speculation.

Safe travels, everyone.

Abound is really just the existing Marriott Destinations Program with a new name. I don't see any further integration with Bonvoy than there already is. Yes. the top two levels in Abound (Presidential and Chairmans) get Titanium in Bonvoy. You can convert Abound points to Bonvoy points, but the amount you can convert is dependant on ownership level and even still one can't convert 100% of their Abound points to Bonvoy in a given year.

 

[emeryjre]

Yes, it does seem that VSN membership will be required for entry, but will there be a further limiting factor for resale/direct? What about future mandatory resales, will they be eligible to enroll in Abound?

Yep, lots of questions. The excitement is building on the Vistana side.

 

[divenski]

The last bullet point will answer a lot of concerns for Vistana owners.

This means that Points/Enrolled Owners will be considered equal to VSN weeks owners for 12 mos res. Not sure I like that and especially if Abound status takes priority over time stamps for room choices.

For VSN owners using SO at 8 mos, this probably means less availability.

 

[timsi]

Yes, it does seem that VSN membership will be required for entry, but will there be a further limiting factor for resale/direct? What about future mandatory resales, will they be eligible to enroll in Abound?

Maybe they realize that the more complicated, the more issues they have (see the IT problems).
I do not think the number of mandatory resale deeds is a real problem, or that it will be going forward. Just look at the number mandatory Redweek listings and compare to the 10000-12000 weeks they buy back every year.

 

[timsi]

This means that Points/Enrolled Owners will be considered equal to VSN weeks owners for 12 mos res. Not sure I like that and especially if Abound status takes priority over time stamps for room choices.

For VSN owners using SO at 8 mos, this probably means less availability.

IMO Abound should be at 8 months not 12, at par with VSN

 

[dioxide45]

IMO Abound should be at 8 months not 12, at par with VSN

Abound is essentially an exchange system/company. Abound can't reserve what an owner doesn't give them. Technically VSN isn't competing with Abound for the same inventory. Abound is limited to only book the number of "weeks" that have been deposited into Abound.

 

[Cody Penn-Dent]

Abound is really just the existing Marriott Destinations Program with a new name. I don't see any further integration with Bonvoy than there already is. Yes. the top two levels in Abound (Presidential and Chairmans) get Titanium in Bonvoy. You can convert Abound points to Bonvoy points, but the amount you can convert is dependant on ownership level and even still one can't convert 100% of their Abound points to Bonvoy in a given year.

Thanks.

That helps.

Seems the changes are for the Vistana owners more than for Marriott

 

[dioxide45]

Thanks.

That helps.

Seems the changes are for the Vistana owners more than for Marriott

Yeah, Marriott owners won't see much of a change other than a little over 20 additional resorts that they can book into at 12 months out.

 

[Venter]

The relatively cheap way to enroll resales and accrue DC-Points once the combined program is rolled out is via Vistana-Resales.
Here's what we did over the last 2 years.
Purchased 6 x 2BR-EY-WKV-PLAT+ [148.1K-SO] for an average of ~$12K each resale.
Enrolled all 6 x WKV by purchasing a Vistana-Retro package [Flex-Points @ $0.40c/Point].

The cost to enroll 6 x Contracts [$35K]

• Enroll 1 x Contract: Spend $10K
• Enroll Additional-Contract: $5K-Each

We spent $5K more as we enrolled 3-Contracts x Twice.
This accrues 888600-SO which equates to a Vistana Elite-Status of 5-Star.
Based on postings thus far, it appears that each 2BR-EY-WKV would accrue ~4K-DCP which would translate to ~24K-DCP annually.
This works out to a MF of ~$0.43c/Point [MF-$1726 / 4000-DCP].

Summary: Despite all of the above benefits I don't think we would ever exchange our WKV-Units for DCP-Points.
Over the last few years we have rented these units for ~$5K and don't see us getting that value via the DCP-System.

Others are correct in their caution about "History".
You may need to close out the enrollment prior to the official rolllout-date.

You will need to buy 1000 points for the first week and then 500 for each week thereafter.

 

[Cody Penn-Dent]

Abound is essentially an exchange system/company. Abound can't reserve what an owner doesn't give them. Technically VSN isn't competing with Abound for the same inventory. Abound is limited to only book the number of "weeks" that have been deposited into Abound.

I figured that was the cas

This means that Points/Enrolled Owners will be considered equal to VSN weeks owners for 12 mos res. Not sure I like that and especially if Abound status takes priority over time stamps for room choices.

For VSN owners using SO at 8 mos, this probably means less availability.

With SPG you could convert 100%. So that option remains if someone wanted to move star to bonvoy but, IMO, there are cheaper ways to get bonvoy points.

 

[dioxide45]

I figured that was the cas

With SPG you could convert 100%. So that option remains if someone wanted to move star to bonvoy but, IMO, there are cheaper ways to get bonvoy points.

Yes, and using VSN to convert is probably a better conversion ratio than first converting to Abound and then into Bonvoy.

 

[timsi]

Abound is essentially an exchange system/company. Abound can't reserve what an owner doesn't give them. Technically VSN isn't competing with Abound for the same inventory. Abound is limited to only book the number of "weeks" that have been deposited into Abound.

I do not think that is true. If Abound gets more of the better weeks of the high season (say more Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Presidents etc), more Vistana owners will be tempted to deposit in Abound when they exchange and that will create a problem for VSN. We have no way of knowing what happens behind the curtain. Even if that does not happen, the fact that you can book at 12 months is a big incentive to deposit in Abound and that lowers the availability in VSN. Abound is direct competition to VSN, 100%. Do not forget that Marriott has an economic incentive to favor Abound, because of the skim, and allowing Abound to book Vistana at 12 months should show us right from the start the side they are on.

 

[CPNY]

Noob here posting for the first time here, and a Vistana owner (4 star between Nanea and Mexico)

I am at the Nanea right now and had our 'owner update' yesterday.

Abound is new to sales and they are still in training BUT a couple of tidbits I haven't seen here while lurking (may be mentioned elsewhere, but... like I said... I haven't seen them)

1) Abound status levels are named the same as the current MVC system. I am not MVC but the implication was MVC status matches 1 for 1 with Abound

2) President and Chairman level get Titanium status in Marriot Bonvoy annually

3) Vistana owners get Abound status based on a conversation system that *initially* is a flat starpoint ratio.

4) after that initial status conversion, which property you own and how you own in the Vistana system will impact status. This keeps people from stacking points from cheaper properties to get status.

5) status will mater more in the combined program. They were vague on specifics and said they'd be fired if their management saw the new chairman perks on social media.

6) take 4 and 5 above with a grain of salt since these are salespeople selling something they can't specify or be pinned down on. That said I haven't been mislead by a Vistana salesperson before. Strong selling? Sure. Lied to? no.

7) Some 4 star Vistana members will qualify at chairman status. We were on the bubble and bought to level up. Good decision? We like the Nanea and now have 11 days for a 2 bedroom or 3 weeks for a hard-to-reserve 1 bedroom. So if Abound turns out to be a bust, we have what we like.

Anyways, take that for what it is worth. What caught my eye was Titanium status on the printed Abound status chart.

I am a Titanium now, based on my business travel. We bought our Vistana timeshares with my wife as primary, so now we will both be Titanium, each with suite nights each year (per the sales manager)

I sense there will be an significant integration with the Bonvoy program (deeper than before and deeper than with Vistana SPG) but that is my speculation.

Safe travels, everyone.

I’m titanium and I have yet to see any benefit. 2 of the last 4 Marriott stays I wasn’t even “thanked” for being a bonvoy member…. I’ve asked for extra towels, no extra towels. I’ve asked for specific room locations (away from elevators and ice machines) and I’m placed across from the elevator or Ice machine. Marriott hotels is terrible and their loyalty program on the hotel and vacation club side are not worth it. Hilton does a much better job at honoring their members. I guess that’s why it’s called Hilton honors.

 

[CPNY]

I do not think that is true. If Abound gets more of the better weeks of the high season (say more Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Presidents etc), more Vistana owners will be tempted to deposit in Abound when they exchange and that will create a problem for VSN. We have no way of knowing what happens behind the curtain. Even if that does not happen, the fact that you can book at 12 months is a big incentive to deposit in Abound and that lowers the availability in VSN. Abound is direct competition to VSN, 100%. Do not forget that Marriott has an economic incentive to favor Abound, because of the skim, and allowing Abound to book Vistana at 12 months should show us right from the start the side they are on.

It depends on what the underlying inventory is for the DC point and Flex owners that gets deposited. If a Sheraton flex owner deposits 44K flex options into Abound, Marriott can make a small one bedroom in a low season that corresponds to that amount of options available in abound. They will likely keep high demand weeks for themselves to rent out for revenue. If a high demand deeded week converts then I’d assume that deeded week would be deposited into abound. Of course this is assuming Marriott makes it fair. I can see them taking that high demand deeded week for their own use and depositing another week in its place.

 

[GetawaysRus]

Noob here posting for the first time here, and a Vistana owner (4 star between Nanea and Mexico)

I am a Titanium now, based on my business travel. We bought our Vistana timeshares with my wife as primary, so now we will both be Titanium, each with suite nights each year (per the sales manager)

I'm not so sure that the Vistana sales reps are correct about that. I thought that the Marriott Bonvoy Choice Benefits were earned based on elite night credits. Bonvoy members get one Choice Benefit at 50 nights and a second Choice Benefit at 75 nights.

So because you earn your Bonvoy status based on hotel stays related to your business travel, you would be eligible. But I'm not so sure that you wife will get the same benefit because her Titanium status is based on her timeshare ownership rather than elite night stays. She might have to earn her own 50 or 75 Bonvoy elite night credits (from some combination of Bonvoy credit cards, timeshare stays at Marriott or Vistana resorts, and hotel stays) in order to earn the Choice Benefits.

If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure someone will quickly correct me.

 

[dioxide45]

I do not think that is true. If Abound gets more of the better weeks of the high season (say more Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Presidents etc), more Vistana owners will be tempted to deposit in Abound when they exchange and that will create a problem for VSN. We have no way of knowing what happens behind the curtain. Even if that does not happen, the fact that you can book at 12 months is a big incentive to deposit in Abound and that lowers the availability in VSN. Abound is direct competition to VSN, 100%. Do not forget that Marriott has an economic incentive to favor Abound, because of the skim, and allowing Abound to book Vistana at 12 months should show us right from the start the side they are on.

It is still separate inventy. For every week that is deposited into Abound, that is another chunk of StarOptions that won't be competing for VSN inventory. The skim is not in the favor of depositing into Abound. You lose a little when you elect Abound Club Points.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm not so sure that the Vistana sales reps are correct about that. I thought that the Marriott Bonvoy Choice Benefits were earned based on elite night credits. Bonvoy members get one Choice Benefit at 50 nights and a second Choice Benefit at 75 nights.

That is correct, you have to actually earn the elite nights each year in order to choose the Annual Choice Benefit. Just having Titanium from timeshare ownership isn't enough to get the free night.

 

[Mroze]

You will need to buy 1000 points for the first week and then 500 for each week thereafter.

Hi @Venter,

I assume you are referring to purchasing DCP-Points on the Marriott-Side.
Is this a new offer from Marriott to enroll resale weeks?

 

[Venter]

Hi @Venter,

I assume you are referring to purchasing DCP-Points on the Marriott-Side.
Is this a new offer from Marriott to enroll resale weeks?

Yes, I am referring to points on the marriott side. I am purchasing to enroll Vistana VOI's.

 

[pacman777]

I'm not so sure that the Vistana sales reps are correct about that. I thought that the Marriott Bonvoy Choice Benefits were earned based on elite night credits. Bonvoy members get one Choice Benefit at 50 nights and a second Choice Benefit at 75 nights.

So because you earn your Bonvoy status based on hotel stays related to your business travel, you would be eligible. But I'm not so sure that you wife will get the same benefit because her Titanium status is based on her timeshare ownership rather than elite night stays. She might have to earn her own 50 or 75 Bonvoy elite night credits (from some combination of Bonvoy credit cards, timeshare stays at Marriott or Vistana resorts, and hotel stays) in order to earn the Choice Benefits.

If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure someone will quickly correct me.

You are spot on. I’m lifetime Titanium earned from hotel stays and the additional perks like suite nights (which are pretty much worthless by the way) have to be earned every year from hotel stays

 

[timsi]

It is still separate inventy. For every week that is deposited into Abound, that is another chunk of StarOptions that won't be competing for VSN inventory. The skim is not in the favor of depositing into Abound. You lose a little when you elect Abound Club Points.

Yes, you lose a little but Marriott gains a little and they do not have that in VSN where there is no skim. So if the rules or their actions favor Abound, it would be for a reason.

 

[Mowogo]

I do not think that is true. If Abound gets more of the better weeks of the high season (say more Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Presidents etc), more Vistana owners will be tempted to deposit in Abound when they exchange and that will create a problem for VSN. We have no way of knowing what happens behind the curtain. Even if that does not happen, the fact that you can book at 12 months is a big incentive to deposit in Abound and that lowers the availability in VSN. Abound is direct competition to VSN, 100%. Do not forget that Marriott has an economic incentive to favor Abound, because of the skim, and allowing Abound to book Vistana at 12 months should show us right from the start the side they are on.

Vistana Elite Flex owners have every incentive to deposit into Abound. Turning the relatively restricted flex points into full flexibility points that cross all brands is actually a reasonable trade, especially if you happen to have reservations that are booked for the true low dates in the granular charts.

 

[Superchief]

An important issue for me is how many points are allocated for each Vistana resort week, what are the point requirements to stay there, and how do they vary by season. I assume that MVC point allocations, seasons, and redemptions won't change. Supply and demand will be greatly impacted by this.

 

[jabberwocky]

Vistana Elite Flex owners have every incentive to deposit into Abound. Turning the relatively restricted flex points into full flexibility points that cross all brands is actually a reasonable trade, especially if you happen to have reservations that are booked for the true low dates in the granular charts.

How are Flex points restricted? More choices isn’t necessarily better if they get me fewer days at the resorts I want to go to.

 

[dioxide45]

How are Flex points restricted? More choices isn’t necessarily better if they get me fewer days at the resorts I want to go to.

They are really only restricted in that they can book a select number of resorts at 12 months. If one decides to deposit into Abound, they get to pick from a lot more resorts. That election of Club Points comes at a cost though. As you mention, you may not get as much time at the resorts you want to go to. Some people will do the comparison to see if it makes sense. Some may be okay with less time in order to go to that other resort and will elect. Others may not do that and will book their home resort or use StarOptions at 8-months. Some will just blindly elect points every year. Many different variables at play here,