Abound! The combined Marriott/Vistana integrated exchange program now has a name.

[dioxide45]

It looks like they've changed the information online (MVC) related to enrollment back to the original pricing at the time of roll out in 2010 with the same restrictions. My guess is they'll offer free enrollment for those who qualify as a sales tour incentive. It'll likely be similar on the non MVC side though I could see a later cutoff date. They really don't care much about whether the remaining ones enroll for MVC, what they do care about is making money on the ones where they can. Whether they will care more on the Vistana/Westin side to get inventory is an unknown, my guess is they won't since the volume included for points for each resort is not published anyway.

That pricing has been reverted back to 2010 numbers for many months. I don't know exactly when they changed it, but it has been a while. It is still possible to enroll eligible weeks for free with the webinar. I know of one person who has done this recently. They may try to push the free enrollment with an owners update a little more. They did offer this a while back, but I haven't seen it mentioned lately.

 

[dioxide45]

Re: the 40% number….

Page B2 of the link below says as of 12/31/20, 273,402 owners were enrolled in the exchange program. Do we know how many owners there are in total?

Also, is the 40% enrolled owners, or enrolled weeks. Seems an owner with multiple weeks was more likely to enroll at the beginning vs a single weeks owner. So curious if the # of weeks enrolled is higher than 40%.

http://img.vacationclubsurvey.com/images/MVCIAP/enrollment/Documents/MVCDExchangeProgram_DisclosureGuide_English.pdf

The problem is that MVW now only discloses total owners, that is all owners in all systems (Hyatt, MVC, Vistana). That number is 700,000. I don't think we will ever see a breakdown by system again.

 

[Fasttr]

The problem is that MVW now only discloses total owners, that is all owners in all systems (Hyatt, MVC, Vistana). That number is 700,000. I don't think we will ever see a breakdown by system again.

273,402/700,000 = 39% of total.
Seems reasonable 60% of MVC is possible.

 

[dioxide45]

273,402/700,000 = 39%

Yeah, but many of those 700,000 can't even enroll in DC/Abound. The 40% number that was touted was the number of unenrolled. Using the 60% enrolled being 273,402, we can estimate a total number of MVC owners to be about 455,000.

 

[JIMinNC]

273,402/700,000 = 39%

Yeah but the enrolled number should be 60%.

So, 273,402/60% = 455,670. The last time I saw the total owner number in the 10-K reports for just MVC, it was somewhere near that. I'll see if I can find that.

 

[Fasttr]

I posted before I finished my thought. See my full post above. We are on the same page.

 

[JIMinNC]

Yeah but the enrolled number should be 60%.

So, 273,402/60% = 455,670. The last time I saw the total owner number in the 10-K reports for just MVC, it was somewhere near that. I'll see if I can find that.

As of December 31, 2017, they reported "approximately 400,000 owners" in MVC. For December 31, 2018, they included the ILG acquisition and it grew to 600,000.

So the 273K could easily be 60% of the current number with some rounding factored in.

 

[SueDonJ]

You people know exactly how to torture me and appear to revel in math for just that purpose. I see what you're doing!

 

[rickandcindy23]

You people know exactly how to torture me and appear to revel in math for just that purpose. I see what you're doing!

I know. I am so confused.

 

[itkwon]

Think about this, if they allowed all resale owners to enroll current and future. Imagine the positive effect it would have company wide.
*More inventory for everyone to play with in full control of Marriott, but essentially fulfilling more in-demand reservations between the owner base
*More engaged ownership base
*would drive the prices of re-sales on all Marriott and vistana inventory, and making the price difference between retail and retail slimmer. Therefore making a retail purchase not look as bad (kind of like Disney)
* More “program fees” collected from all enrolled owners

I am also interested in the detail related to the benefits for resale owners.
I am just trying to watch resale inventories of MVC Points resales, Vistana Flex resales, and Marriott Grand Chateau deed weeks. Thus, I am trying to hold any decision before everything is clear about 'Abound' program. I am just not trying to be 'Abounced' to make an impulse purchase. I have to wait to get to know those.

I may ask salespersons about the detail although I cannot fully trust them.
----
MVC - Marriott Vacation Club

 

[SueDonJ]

I am also interested in the detail related to the benefits for resale owners.
I am just trying to watch resale inventories of MVC Points resales, Vistana Flex resales, and Marriott Grand Chateau deed weeks. Thus, I am trying to hold any decision before everything is clear about 'Abound' program. I am just not trying to be 'Abounced' to make an impulse purchase. I have to wait to get to know those.

I may ask salespersons about the detail although I cannot fully trust them.
----
MVC - Marriott Vacation Club

Not sure if history will repeat, of course, but if history is any indication - at the DC implementation on 6/20/10 all previously-sold Marriott Weeks (direct-purchase and external-resales) were eligible for DC enrollment with the only differences between them being 1) the initial one-time Enrollment Fee and 2) the frequency with which an Enrolled Week can be exchanged for Bonvoy Points (with resales eligible for that exchange half as often as like direct-purchases.) Immediately the eligibility rules changed though, with any external resales purchased after 6/20/10 being ineligible for enrollment. That continued for a number of years until Marriott introduced a couple different sales incentives that allow for the enrollment of officially-ineligible Weeks with a direct purchase of DC Points or non-US-based Weeks.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how things shake out with the Abound implementation for Vistana owners, but my thinking is that Marriott has enough data from Marriott owners to already know what will be the determining factor at which the initial eligibility dates/rules for Vistana owners might change in the future.

Because of the history, if as a Vistana owner I had a good understanding of how the Abound-formerly-Destination-Club system would be advantageous for my particular ownership, I'd seriously consider adding resales with the hope that they'd get processed prior to the implementation. It'd be a roll of the dice, I know, and I'm definitely not saying that everyone should do exactly as I would. It's just something to think about.

 

[dioxide45]

Because of the history, if as a Vistana owner I had a good understanding of how the Abound-formerly-Destination-Club system would be advantageous for my particular ownership, I'd seriously consider adding resales with the hope that they'd get processed prior to the implementation. It'd be a roll of the dice, I know, and I'm definitely not saying that everyone should do exactly as I would. It's just something to think about.

The only problem is that it is taking Vistana/MVC almost two months to complete a transfer of ownership. Chances are that they would have this thing rolled out before you got through closing ang transfer. It would be a big roll of the dice.

 

[emeryjre]

Friend sold one of his Oceana Palms units, Went into Escrow on February 15. All paperwork in order at that time. No delays on part of seller or buyer. Transfer done 10 days ago. New owner is still not able to set up his TS account at Marriott as of this morning. Maybe different experiences among different transfers, but this one was longer than 2 months. New owner is still trying to find out if they will still have use for July 4th weekend. Seller had a confirmed reservation made before putting the unit up for sale.

 

[GetawaysRus]

Ok, I have a question for you MVC mavens.

I own one (every year, lockoff) week that is enrolled.

Over the past few years, I picked up 2 additional Marriott resale weeks. These are not enrolled, and both are lockoffs.

I've got plenty of weeks now to meet our travel needs. It would be nice to be able to enroll those 2 resale weeks that were purchased recently, but I don't want to spend big $$ to buy more points or weeks from Marriott to enable enrolling these 2 recent purchases.

So: is there any way to enroll my 2 recent purchases on the cheap? Will the new Abound program offer any opportunity?

 

[JIMinNC]

Ok, I have a question for you MVC mavens.

I own one (every year, lockoff) week that is enrolled.

Over the past few years, I picked up 2 additional Marriott resale weeks. These are not enrolled, and both are lockoffs.

I've got plenty of weeks now to meet our travel needs. It would be nice to be able to enroll those 2 resale weeks that were purchased recently, but I don't want to spend big $$ to buy more points or weeks from Marriott to enable enrolling these 2 recent purchases.

So: is there any way to enroll my 2 recent purchases on the cheap? Will the new Abound program offer any opportunity?

Short answer is there has not been way to enroll post-6/2010 MVC resales weeks on the cheap - unless you consider $25k-$30k cheap. No one knows if the Abound program will change that. Anything other than that is basically speculation at this point.

 

[amycurl]

Per the closing rate: at my HGVC presentation two weeks ago, I mentioned a 25% closing rate (1 in 4 presentations.) My salesperson corrected me and said 3 out of 5. Suuuuuuuure. I find these Marriott numbers far more believable.

 

[dougp26364]

Per the closing rate: at my HGVC presentation two weeks ago, I mentioned a 25% closing rate (1 in 4 presentations.) My salesperson corrected me and said 3 out of 5. Suuuuuuuure. I find these Marriott numbers far more believable.

I’d have laughed out loud.

typically the average for sales numbers are
100 cold calls to get 10 appointments
of those 10, only 3 will be legitimate prospects.
A good salesman can close 1 of those 3.

when Marriott announced a 20 percent close rate I felt that was reasonably honest considering they bribe their owners with incentives to attend.

 

[gdstuart]

Sadly, they probably spend tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for some marketing group to come up with these.

Yeah, probably the same guys who name new prescription drugs. I want that gig.

 

[CPNY]

Yeah, probably the same guys who name new prescription drugs. I want that gig.

They aren’t supposed to sound like any other drugs on the market.

 

[Mroze]

Short answer is there has not been way to enroll post-6/2010 MVC resales weeks on the cheap - unless you consider $25k-$30k cheap. No one knows if the Abound program will change that. Anything other than that is basically speculation at this point.

The relatively cheap way to enroll resales and accrue DC-Points once the combined program is rolled out is via Vistana-Resales.
Here's what we did over the last 2 years.
Purchased 6 x 2BR-EY-WKV-PLAT+ [148.1K-SO] for an average of ~$12K each resale.
Enrolled all 6 x WKV by purchasing a Vistana-Retro package [Flex-Points @ $0.40c/Point].

The cost to enroll 6 x Contracts [$35K]

• Enroll 1 x Contract: Spend $10K
• Enroll Additional-Contract: $5K-Each

We spent $5K more as we enrolled 3-Contracts x Twice.
This accrues 888600-SO which equates to a Vistana Elite-Status of 5-Star.
Based on postings thus far, it appears that each 2BR-EY-WKV would accrue ~4K-DCP which would translate to ~24K-DCP annually.
This works out to a MF of ~$0.43c/Point [MF-$1726 / 4000-DCP].

Summary: Despite all of the above benefits I don't think we would ever exchange our WKV-Units for DCP-Points.
Over the last few years we have rented these units for ~$5K and don't see us getting that value via the DCP-System.

Others are correct in their caution about "History".
You may need to close out the enrollment prior to the official rolllout-date.

 

[rickxylon]

Just saw this in an Aruba Surf Club Facebook group

 

[dioxide45]

Just saw this in an Aruba Surf Club Facebook group

View attachment 58341

The last bullet point will answer a lot of concerns for Vistana owners.

 

[emeryjre]

Bullet point number 2 is real interesting. "If VSN members elect to receive club points,,,,,," I guess the answer to what defines a VSN member is going to be of interest to anyone that has a unit in the VSN system.

 

[dioxide45]

Bullet point number 2 is real interesting. "If VSN members elect to receive club points,,,,,," I guess the answer to what defines a VSN member is going to be of interest to anyone that has a unit in the VSN system.

Yes, it does seem that VSN membership will be required for entry, but will there be a further limiting factor for resale/direct? What about future mandatory resales, will they be eligible to enroll in Abound?

 

[Cody Penn-Dent]

Noob here posting for the first time here, and a Vistana owner (4 star between Nanea and Mexico)

I am at the Nanea right now and had our 'owner update' yesterday.

Abound is new to sales and they are still in training BUT a couple of tidbits I haven't seen here while lurking (may be mentioned elsewhere, but... like I said... I haven't seen them)

1) Abound status levels are named the same as the current MVC system. I am not MVC but the implication was MVC status matches 1 for 1 with Abound

2) President and Chairman level get Titanium status in Marriot Bonvoy annually

3) Vistana owners get Abound status based on a conversation system that *initially* is a flat starpoint ratio.

4) after that initial status conversion, which property you own and how you own in the Vistana system will impact status. This keeps people from stacking points from cheaper properties to get status.

5) status will mater more in the combined program. They were vague on specifics and said they'd be fired if their management saw the new chairman perks on social media.

6) take 4 and 5 above with a grain of salt since these are salespeople selling something they can't specify or be pinned down on. That said I haven't been mislead by a Vistana salesperson before. Strong selling? Sure. Lied to? no.

7) Some 4 star Vistana members will qualify at chairman status. We were on the bubble and bought to level up. Good decision? We like the Nanea and now have 11 days for a 2 bedroom or 3 weeks for a hard-to-reserve 1 bedroom. So if Abound turns out to be a bust, we have what we like.

Anyways, take that for what it is worth. What caught my eye was Titanium status on the printed Abound status chart.

I am a Titanium now, based on my business travel. We bought our Vistana timeshares with my wife as primary, so now we will both be Titanium, each with suite nights each year (per the sales manager)

I sense there will be an significant integration with the Bonvoy program (deeper than before and deeper than with Vistana SPG) but that is my speculation.

Safe travels, everyone.