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I am soooooo tired of hearing about the labor pains. I want to see the baby.
I really don’t care about all the teasers that either tell us what we already know or something so irrelevant is puts me to sleep. Really? The name of the product? That’s not exactly vacation planning changing news. I guess it does distract from the fact their IT can’t seem to get the website working.
I love all the speculation presented as a "done deal" as well.
We should have a contest.
Best speculation that actually shows up in the program wins a gold star and a pass to hold their pool chair all day with just a towel.
I love all the speculation presented as a "done deal" as well.
We should have a contest.
Best speculation that actually shows up in the program wins a gold star and a pass to hold their pool chair all day with just a towel.
I am not sure exactly what speculation you are referring to, but it seems that a combined program is pretty much a done deal and Abound will be the exchange program mechanism that supports it. Of course the devil is in the details and there is still a lot we don't know there, but speculating is fun and I don't really see any of it being presented as a "done deal".
I am not sure exactly what speculation you are referring to, but it seems that a combined program is pretty much a done deal and Abound will be the exchange program mechanism that supports it. Of course the devil is in the details and there is still a lot we don't know there, but speculating is fun and I don't really see any of it being presented as a "done deal".
I am not trying to reign in the fun, just making a joke.
You have been involved since day one.
As an occasional visitor to the thread looking for "real" program information, it is hard to sort out facts about the program from fiction and speculation about the program.
I was replying to a post from someone that seems to feel the same way.
I love all the speculation presented as a "done deal" as well.
We should have a contest.
Best speculation that actually shows up in the program wins a gold star and a pass to hold their pool chair all day with just a towel.
It's more than that. They meant $600 million in EXCESS inventory, meaning $600 million more than their target. If you look at the separate thread I started on the non-ABOUND topics, you will see they actually have $1.18 billion of inventory on their books, which represents about 5 years of inventory, whereas their target is 1.5-2 years. They hope to work down their inventory levels to $760-$790 million by about 2025.
Those numbers are also for all of MVW and include Welk/Hyatt inventory. So, I suspect they will need to look at inventory levels within each of their two systems and increase repurchases or new development whenever each of the two systems reaches their target levels.
If they have all of this excess inventory then why do they continue to exercise ROFR? In theory they're paying the maintenance fees on that inventory so there's a holding cost to it (though I'm sure they get some back on rentals, etc.).
If they have all of this excess inventory then why do they continue to exercise ROFR? In theory they're paying the maintenance fees on that inventory so there's a holding cost to it (though I'm sure they get some back on rentals, etc.).
I suspect much of their unsold inventory isn't in Marriott. They didn't break down the inventory by bucket, but it seems a lot came with the Welk acquisition. They are probably also sitting on a bunch of foreign MVC inventory (Bali, Costa Rica, Surfers Paradise). They can't sell any of that as DC Trust Points. It would be good to know how many unsold DC Trust Points they are sitting on.
If they have all of this excess inventory then why do they continue to exercise ROFR? In theory they're paying the maintenance fees on that inventory so there's a holding cost to it (though I'm sure they get some back on rentals, etc.).
I think @dioxide45 nailed it, but in addition to what he said, ROFR is also the cheapest way to acquire inventory and lowers their average cost of vacation interests sold, which in turn expands their development margin, which is one of the metrics Wall Street looks at in valuing the company. So they have said in the past they have a ROFR target to generate the inventory mix that fits their desired ratio
But the CEO directly said in his comments that the excess inventory came from the acquisitions and several new development projects that were committed to prior to the pandemic. So based on that, it’s logical to assume there is not much excess inventory in the MVC Trust, so the ROFRs are funding that part of the sales engine while they work down the acquired and international inventory.
They also said they view ROFR as a way to buy out an owner who may not be as interested and engaged and then sell the resulting points to a new more engaged owner who would be more likely to buy more in the future. So it’s also an investment in future sales.
Not sure how I missed it yesterday, but I just saw there may be a clue to the answer to your question in the ABOUND news release in this quote from MVW President John Geller:
"We are incredibly excited to debut Abound by Marriott Vacations, which is our gateway for enrolled vacation Owners to embark on exceptional travel adventures around the globe, helping them make a lifetime of meaningful vacation moments with those they care about most," said President of Marriott Vacations Worldwide, John E. Geller, Jr.
Note my highlighted text in the quote. He specifically said "enrolled vacation Owners". So, I would interpret that to mean that existing enrolled MVC owners are automatically enrolled in ABOUND, since they said there would be no fees for the new program other than the annual club fee all enrolled owners pay. The key outstanding question is what will be the enrollment process on the Westin/Sheraton side? I think we can probably assume all direct sales will be automatically qualified for enrollment, but how will Westin/Sheraton resale owners become eligible for enrollment? I suspect it may be via the same path that an unenrolled MVC weeks owner can become enrolled today - by buying a defined number of ABOUND ClubPoints direct from Marriott. Historically in the MVC world, that option was only offered during certain promotional periods that tended to happen once or twice per year.
The qualifications for enrollment on the Vistana side is the big unanswered question. They did state there would be no add on cost or fee to enroll. I am sure much to the chagrin of the salesforce.
Not sure how I missed it yesterday, but I just saw there may be a clue to the answer to your question in the ABOUND news release in this quote from MVW President John Geller:
"We are incredibly excited to debut Abound by Marriott Vacations, which is our gateway for enrolled vacation Owners to embark on exceptional travel adventures around the globe, helping them make a lifetime of meaningful vacation moments with those they care about most," said President of Marriott Vacations Worldwide, John E. Geller, Jr.
Note my highlighted text in the quote. He specifically said "enrolled vacation Owners". So, I would interpret that to mean that existing enrolled MVC owners are automatically enrolled in ABOUND, since they said there would be no fees for the new program other than the annual club fee all enrolled owners pay. The key outstanding question is what will be the enrollment process on the Westin/Sheraton side? I think we can probably assume all direct sales will be automatically qualified for enrollment, but how will Westin/Sheraton resale owners become eligible for enrollment? I suspect it may be via the same path that an unenrolled MVC weeks owner can become enrolled today - by buying a defined number of ABOUND ClubPoints direct from Marriott. Historically in the MVC world, that option was only offered during certain promotional periods that tended to happen once or twice per year.
I think what you say will be true for all resale purchases after Abound has been officially rolled out, but it wouldn't come as a surprise at all if at the official introduction all existing Vistana ownerships - direct-purchases and external-resale purchases - are given the option to enroll all previous purchases (similar to the Destination Club rollout back in 2010 with every Week that was sold prior to 6/20/10 being eligible for enrollment.)
Been Marriott Vacation member since 1999 and the website, for a company like Marriott, has always infuriated me. Hopefully, they will hire some good Web developers.
I think what you say will be true for all resale purchases after Abound has been officially rolled out, but it wouldn't come as a surprise at all if at the official introduction all existing Vistana ownerships - direct-purchases and external-resale purchases - are given the option to enroll all previous purchases (similar to the Destination Club rollout back in 2010 with every Week that was sold prior to 6/20/10 being eligible for enrollment.)
That is the biggest unanswered question about enrollment qualifications. Will they or won't they "grandfather" like they did in 2010. The only different today is that they are mentioning free enrollment, no incremental cost outside of the Club Fee. Will they want to give resale owners free enrollment? We shall see.
That is the biggest unanswered question about enrollment qualifications. Will they or won't they "grandfather" like they did in 2010. The only different today is that they are mentioning free enrollment, no incremental cost outside of the Club Fee. Will they want to give resale owners free enrollment? We shall see.
We theorized then that for them, with such limited inventory seeding the DC Trust that could be manipulated through the Exchange Company, success would be furthered by existing Weeks being allowed to be deposited into the Exchange Company. It's much more robust now than it was then but obviously not with Vistana inventory, so isn't the question whether there is as much of an initial need to push Vistana inventory into it?
Definition of Abound from Google: To be plentiful; to be very prevalent; to overflow. To be copiously supplied; to be wealthy in; to teem with; -- followed by in or with.
I don't think they are meaning for us to be plentiful and overflowing, but I think Marriott is thinking they will be those things. Kind of funny. I took it to mean another kind of bound, like when people say, "I am Disney bound," or "I am Maui bound."
I think what you say will be true for all resale purchases after Abound has been officially rolled out, but it wouldn't come as a surprise at all if at the official introduction all existing Vistana ownerships - direct-purchases and external-resale purchases - are given the option to enroll all previous purchases (similar to the Destination Club rollout back in 2010 with every Week that was sold prior to 6/20/10 being eligible for enrollment.)
That is the biggest unanswered question about enrollment qualifications. Will they or won't they "grandfather" like they did in 2010. The only different today is that they are mentioning free enrollment, no incremental cost outside of the Club Fee. Will they want to give resale owners free enrollment? We shall see.
We theorized then that for them, with such limited inventory seeding the DC Trust that could be manipulated through the Exchange Company, success would be furthered by existing Weeks being allowed to be deposited into the Exchange Company. It's much more robust now than it was then but obviously not with Vistana inventory, so isn't the question whether there is as much of an initial need to push Vistana inventory into it?
It would certainly make sense to have some sort of initial enrollment promotion - at least for the legacy Vistana side - to try to get that inventory into the Abound Exchange. I would expect enrolled DC owners to be automatic since Abound just appears to be a rebranded DC. Since there is no enrollment fee like there was in 2010, I do find it hard to believe they would allow resale owners - either still-unenrolled MVC weeks owners or resale Westin/Sheraton owners - to enroll for free on the same basis as direct owners. They've never shown the inclination to put resale owners on the same basis as direct purchasers. Even in 2010, pre-6/2010 resale owners had to pay a higher enrollment fee than direct purchasers.
Perhaps the way they do it is this (speculation warning!):
Existing enrolled MVC owners are seamlessly transitioned to Abound with no action required.
Existing direct purchase Westin/Sheraton owners are allowed to enroll in Abound either online or through a direct solicitation for free.
Unenrolled resale owners on both sides can enroll in Abound with a ClubPoints purchase (would they offer a one-time fee option?).
Been Marriott Vacation member since 1999 and the website, for a company like Marriott, has always infuriated me. Hopefully, they will hire some good Web developers.
There is hope. The HGVC site prior to 2018 sucked. It sucked so badly they kept 2 concurrent reservation systems running because one system could not do the entire job. New CEO came on board made IT a priority and now there is one system that runs reasonably well.
Perhaps the board purposely selected the new MVC CEO with a background in IT because he will make it a priority. Perhaps the old CEO deprioritized investment in IT and never budgeted sufficient funds.
It would certainly make sense to have some sort of initial enrollment promotion - at least for the legacy Vistana side - to try to get that inventory into the Abound Exchange. I would expect enrolled DC owners to be automatic since Abound just appears to be a rebranded DC. Since there is no enrollment fee like there was in 2010, I do find it hard to believe they would allow resale owners - either still-unenrolled MVC weeks owners or resale Westin/Sheraton owners - to enroll for free on the same basis as direct owners. They've never shown the inclination to put resale owners on the same basis as direct purchasers. Even in 2010, pre-6/2010 resale owners had to pay a higher enrollment fee than direct purchasers.
Perhaps the way the do it is this (speculation warning!):
Existing enrolled MVC owners are seamlessly transitioned to Abound with no action required.
Existing direct purchase Westin/Sheraton owners are allowed to enroll in Abound either online or through a direct solicitation for free.
Unenrolled resale owners on both sides can enroll in Abound with a ClubPoints purchase (would they offer a one-time fee option?).
The only comment I have is that I'm long-past your first bullet and thinking it's a foregone conclusion that for those of us Marriott Weeks owners who are already enrolled, the only changes we're facing are a Destinations-to-Abound name change and the reality that Vistana properties will be available to us when those eligible owners start to play in the same sandbox.
This chart is very interesting combined with their statement that after 12 years, 40% of the MVC base is still unenrolled. They shared this figure several years ago which means that with DP point attrition, and deeded points owners selling-out and turning their deeds into DP-less resales, DP has not gained ground with this part of the customer base.
This chart says a lot about this base which at this point will never pay more than a minimal fee to enroll. I see the words, "Refresh less engaged owners" as interesting. Perhaps they see free or minimal enrollment as a way to re-engage them and need to rethink their approach. It must also cost a lot to maintain two systems (now many with Vistana, Welk, Hyatt) vs. consolidating into one or two.
It would certainly make sense to have some sort of initial enrollment promotion - at least for the legacy Vistana side - to try to get that inventory into the Abound Exchange. I would expect enrolled DC owners to be automatic since Abound just appears to be a rebranded DC. Since there is no enrollment fee like there was in 2010, I do find it hard to believe they would allow resale owners - either still-unenrolled MVC weeks owners or resale Westin/Sheraton owners - to enroll for free on the same basis as direct owners. They've never shown the inclination to put resale owners on the same basis as direct purchasers. Even in 2010, pre-6/2010 resale owners had to pay a higher enrollment fee than direct purchasers.
Perhaps the way they do it is this (speculation warning!):
Existing enrolled MVC owners are seamlessly transitioned to Abound with no action required.
Existing direct purchase Westin/Sheraton owners are allowed to enroll in Abound either online or through a direct solicitation for free.
Unenrolled resale owners on both sides can enroll in Abound with a ClubPoints purchase (would they offer a one-time fee option?).
I seem to recall a January 2022 date reported from sales update mtgs on some postings. Perhaps that will be the cutoff for Vistana resale weeks purchases for enrolling in Abound club, analogous to June 2010 for DC. Of course any offered enrollment would require a fee.
This chart is very interesting combined with their statement that after 12 years, 40% of the MVC base is still unenrolled. They shared this figure several years ago which means that with DP point attrition, and deeded points owners aging out and turning their deeds into resales, DP has not gained ground with this part of the customer base.
This chart says a lot about this base which at this point will never pay more than a minimal fee to enroll. I see the words, "Refresh less engaged owners" as interesting. Perhaps they see free or minimal enrollment as a way to re-engage them and need to rethink their approach. It must also cost a lot to maintain two systems (now many with Vistana, Welk, Hyatt) vs. consolidating into one or two.
I also thought the 40% number was surprisingly high this deep into the DC, but since I didn't capture what his exact words were, I am not 100% sure whether he meant 40% were still unenrolled, or whether he meant that 40% of their vacation reservations were still happening in the legacy weeks system. For example, all three of our weeks are now enrolled, but we've never elected our Waiohai or Maui Ocean Club weeks for Points. We now always elect our Barony week for points. So, how are we counted?
I would love to go back and re-listen to that comment in the Vimeo archive of the presentations, but it would take some time to find it.
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