Abound Sales Pitch - Buy Vistana Now?

[Burton504]

Looking for some insight into the sales pitch I got at Westin Lagunamar. They said that for Vistana owners, you take how many star points you have and divide by 30 to get Club Points. They said that the lowest number of Marriott Club points you could buy from Marriott would be $25,000. However, if you bought a "cheap" resort now in Vistana, for example a 37,000 star point one for $16,000, you would be able to get 1,234 club points. That works out to $12.966 a club point.
Having no idea how much a Club point is really worth, I wanted to get insight from a Marriott person, is that a "good deal?"
They were also pushing "status" hard. A large percentage of Vistana owners have a 81,000 Star Option Unit. If I bought an additional 37,000 unit, I would get Select status (aka over 4000 club points), which ment I could book 13 months out instead of the standard 12. How worth it would that really be? Are there a lot of Marriott resorts you have no chance of booking a spring break week as a lowly "non-status" owner?
Really appreciate any insight!

 

[jabberwocky]

Not worth it. Walk away and enjoy the rest of your vacation! If you want you can buy 1500 resale Abound points for around $10k and get the same status level.

 

[Venter]

Mmm....
Were they trying to sell Aventuras points? Looking at Dioxide's point tracker Aventuras converts to Abound by dividing by 30.
At the moment the MF's for Abound points for next year is estimated to be $0.71/point(I think). Your MF would be $876.14 for 1234 Abound points.

Next year 37 000 Aventuras points will have a maintenance fee of $600.51. If you convert to Abound the points would have cost you $0.4866/point.

So there is some merit in buying this package instead of resale as your yearly MF will be less. If they throw in some incentives like start MF in 2024 and receive 74 000 Vistana points it may bring the cost down even further. Sometimes they will also discount a recent paid stay if you play hard to get.

Select gives you the opportunity to book 7+days at 13 months out. The next level is executive and in my opinion the sweet spot as you can book 1+ days at 13 months out. You can still book 13 months out if you are owner level but will have to pay a percentage extra for the reservation, that you loose if you cancel. Cannot remember the percentage.

So if you want to be select and have the money it may be worth it in the long run.

 

[vacationtime1]

Start with the basics: where do you want to vacation, in what season, and for how long?

Don't play the "status game" (Select, Executive, etc.); that is secondary. Salespeople like to sell status because it sounds good to buyers and sets specific numbers of points to sell.

Points are flexible, but at a steep price. The best answer may be a resale week somewhere you would like to return to annually (or bi-annually) which would cost a fraction of the amount required using points.

 

[DRH90277]

Where does this go with many of us buying resale weeks because of advantages, disappointment in the points program, and the cost of the points program. And then, what's the point program's future if we don't deposit our weeks in the program for whatever reason? Status doesn't mean so much without available inventory that "we" want. Encouraging us to use points for overpriced outsourced vacation options is not the answer.

Seems selling more points and adding Weston/Sheraton properties is the perceived answer, but will this really help us as participants? I know it will help the VAC shareholders.

 

[winger]

Start with the basics: where do you want to vacation, in what season, and for how long?

Don't play the "status game" (Select, Executive, etc.); that is secondary. Salespeople like to sell status because it sounds good to buyers and sets specific numbers of points to sell.

Points are flexible, but at a steep price. The best answer may be a resale week somewhere you would like to return to annually (or bi-annually) which would cost a fraction of the amount required using points.

There is the flip side, that some realize and are OK with the extra cost to have flexibility. In this case, buying Club Points, even with higher maintenance fees than deeded weeks, to have flexibility of non-7 night stays, choosing unit sizes, and instant exchange vs waiting on II to match exchange requests.

 

[vacationtime1]

There is the flip side, that some realize and are OK with the extra cost to have flexibility. In this case, buying Club Points, even with higher maintenance fees than deeded weeks, to have flexibility of non-7 night stays, choosing unit sizes, and instant exchange vs waiting on II to match exchange requests.

I agree; the flexibility offered by using points is nice. But OP's post focuses entirely on point cost and "status" -- rather on how the points might be used. If OP's intent is (for example), an annual week at Lagunamar, a resale week is not only cheaper, but also easier to use.

 

[winger]

I agree; the flexibility offered by using points is nice. But OP's post focuses entirely on point cost and "status" -- rather on how the points might be used. If OP's intent is (for example), an annual week at Lagunamar, a resale week is not only cheaper, but also easier to use.

In an ideal world, a person would have enrolled deeded resale weeks at his favorite resort(s) that offer low MF/point ratio. He would then have the best of both worlds, ability to book weeks & very low costs, and yet have the flexibility to elect points for use.

 

[JIMinNC]

Points are flexible, but at a steep price. The best answer may be a resale week somewhere you would like to return to annually (or bi-annually) which would cost a fraction of the amount required using points.

It's also important not to directly compare buying a resale week to a points purchase. They are really two different products, with different advantages/disadvantages. Which product is best for any one person depends on what that person is looking for.

Resale weeks are generally the best solution for travel to places you want to go in 7-night increments every year (or every other year, in the case of EOY ownerships). You can buy the season, view, and unit size you always need. But newly purchased resale weeks can't play in the Abound points system (without a large points purchase to enroll them), so the only way to book something other than what you own is to use II and deal with its frustrating (for us) deposit/wait/hope reservation model.

On the other hand, points are generally a less cost effective way to go to the same place repeatedly, but they excel in offering flexibility to travel for shorter or longer than 7 nights, choose the unit size/view you need for each trip, and travel anywhere with availability in the points network of resorts - albeit at a generally higher cost than resale weeks. It's also generally easier to book what you want with points versus doing an II trade, but as is the case with any trading/points system, if you must have spring break, summer school break, Christmas/New Years, even points may present booking challenges. I've never felt timeshares - other than fixed weeks - are all that great for travel during these peak demand periods.

So, if you want to be able to go to a favorite vacation destination every year in peak times - buy a resale week there that meets your needs. If you want to travel to a variety of places, for differing trip lengths, in differing unit sizes, and don't absolutely have to travel during peak demand/school break times, then find the best deal you can on a points system.

I'll also add that a big factor in being satisfied with timeshare ownership is going in with reasonable expectations. If you expect timeshares to do things for you that they don't excel at, you will frequently be disappointed.

 

[ljmiii]

I'll also add that a big factor in being satisfied with timeshare ownership is going in with reasonable expectations. If you expect timeshares to do things for you that they don't excel at, you will frequently be disappointed.

While I agree with everything @JIMinNC said I would add one additional factor I often mention over in the DVC world - in any timeshare system you should be able to book when the window opens. If you can't predict when and where you would like to vacation 7 or 9 or 11 or 12 or 13 or whatever months in advance you are unlikely to be happy with your timeshare purchase.

In the MVC world this translates to understanding the different effective windows weeks and points have at each resort.

 

[timsi]

It's also important not to directly compare buying a resale week to a points purchase. They are really two different products, with different advantages/disadvantages. Which product is best for any one person depends on what that person is looking for.

Resale weeks are generally the best solution for travel to places you want to go in 7-night increments every year (or every other year, in the case of EOY ownerships). You can buy the season, view, and unit size you always need. But newly purchased resale weeks can't play in the Abound points system (without a large points purchase to enroll them), so the only way to book something other than what you own is to use II and deal with its frustrating (for us) deposit/wait/hope reservation model.

On the other hand, points are generally a less cost effective way to go to the same place repeatedly, but they excel in offering flexibility to travel for shorter or longer than 7 nights, choose the unit size/view you need for each trip, and travel anywhere with availability in the points network of resorts - albeit at a generally higher cost than resale weeks. It's also generally easier to book what you want with points versus doing an II trade, but as is the case with any trading/points system, if you must have spring break, summer school break, Christmas/New Years, even points may present booking challenges. I've never felt timeshares - other than fixed weeks - are all that great for travel during these peak demand periods.

So, if you want to be able to go to a favorite vacation destination every year in peak times - buy a resale week there that meets your needs. If you want to travel to a variety of places, for differing trip lengths, in differing unit sizes, and don't absolutely have to travel during peak demand/school break times, then find the best deal you can on a points system.

I'll also add that a big factor in being satisfied with timeshare ownership is going in with reasonable expectations. If you expect timeshares to do things for you that they don't excel at, you will frequently be disappointed.

The biggest problem with a points system is that you actually do not know what you are buying. I think you mentioned before that Marriott only discloses the aggregate number of points per resort and not a more granular information in terms of size, view, or season. Wouldn't they disclose more if the quality of the inventory was a reason to brag?

 

[JIMinNC]

The biggest problem with a points system is that you actually do not know what you are buying. I think you mentioned before that Marriott only discloses the aggregate number of points per resort and not a more granular information in terms of size, view, or season. Wouldn't they disclose more if the quality of the inventory was a reason to brag?

I doubt it. They don't even disclose the points owned by the Trust at each resort. The meaningful question for a points owner wanting to book something, however, is not just what the Trust owns, but also which weeks get elected for points and thus added to the MVC Exchange. That is fluid and the only relevant metric is the availability that shows up at any given moment in the reservation system. That is the only truly relevant disclosure for most people - real time availability whenever a person wants to book. Anything more is just fodder for timeshare geeks like TUGgers.

 

[daviator]

It's worth noting that NONE of the Vistana resorts will ever be bookable at 13 months, because the underlying ownerships don’t allow it. So it doesn’t matter what level of ownership you have in MVC or Abound, Vistana properties will not be available to reserve before 12 months. Only the Marriott properties might be available at 13 months.

 

[timsi]

I doubt it. They don't even disclose the points owned by the Trust at each resort. The meaningful question for a points owner wanting to book something, however, is not just what the Trust owns, but also which weeks get elected for points and thus added to the MVC Exchange. That is fluid and the only relevant metric is the availability that shows up at any given moment in the reservation system. That is the only truly relevant disclosure for most people - real time availability whenever a person wants to book. Anything more is just fodder for timeshare geeks like TUGgers.

A lot of people seem to complain about the availability, so they seem to come short on that measure as well. Regardless, I do not think that what you actually own is not relevant. You cannot rely just on other owners depositing, patterns and rules can change anytime.

 

[timsi]

It's worth noting that NONE of the Vistana resorts will ever be bookable at 13 months, because the underlying ownerships don’t allow it. So it doesn’t matter what level of ownership you have in MVC or Abound, Vistana properties will not be available to reserve before 12 months. Only the Marriott properties might be available at 13 months.

We shall see how it goes, the Vistana resorts do not allow booking by non-owners at 12 months either if you read the rules the way they were written.

 

[DRH90277]

It's also important not to directly compare buying a resale week to a points purchase. They are really two different products, with different advantages/disadvantages. Which product is best for any one person depends on what that person is looking for.

Resale weeks are generally the best solution for travel to places you want to go in 7-night increments every year (or every other year, in the case of EOY ownerships). You can buy the season, view, and unit size you always need. But newly purchased resale weeks can't play in the Abound points system (without a large points purchase to enroll them), so the only way to book something other than what you own is to use II and deal with its frustrating (for us) deposit/wait/hope reservation model.

On the other hand, points are generally a less cost effective way to go to the same place repeatedly, but they excel in offering flexibility to travel for shorter or longer than 7 nights, choose the unit size/view you need for each trip, and travel anywhere with availability in the points network of resorts - albeit at a generally higher cost than resale weeks. It's also generally easier to book what you want with points versus doing an II trade, but as is the case with any trading/points system, if you must have spring break, summer school break, Christmas/New Years, even points may present booking challenges. I've never felt timeshares - other than fixed weeks - are all that great for travel during these peak demand periods.

So, if you want to be able to go to a favorite vacation destination every year in peak times - buy a resale week there that meets your needs. If you want to travel to a variety of places, for differing trip lengths, in differing unit sizes, and don't absolutely have to travel during peak demand/school break times, then find the best deal you can on a points system.

I'll also add that a big factor in being satisfied with timeshare ownership is going in with reasonable expectations. If you expect timeshares to do things for you that they don't excel at, you will frequently be disappointed.

 

[DRH90277]

Sorry, I inadvertently indicated I liked the last post.

 

[Fasttr]

Sorry, I inadvertently indicated I liked the last post.

I just figured you were finally coming around and expected your next post to be pro-Abound.

 

[DRH90277]

I just figured you were finally coming around and expected your next post to be pro-Abound.

Absolutely not, I just don't understand why you and others are so complacent about the inadequacy of a product amid known problems for users. And Abound is very likely a perpetuation of those problems. Abound brings no solution.

I do agree the only safe haven is in buying resale where you can better control the outcomes.

Enjoy your day.

 

[Fasttr]

Absolutely not, I just don't understand why you and others are so complacent about the inadequacy of a product amid known problems for users. And Abound is very likely a perpetuation of those problems. Abound brings no solution.

I do agree the only safe haven is in buying resale where you can better control the outcomes.

Enjoy your day.

It works for me. I’m happy with the product.

 

[Burton504]

Hello, I appreciate everyone's comments and do believe I will be canceling. If the points option were to go away, I would never be able use it for a week as the only times I would be able to use it would cost far more points. The seemingly logical idea was, with the ability to convert it to points, when added to what I already own, would allow me to stay at any MVC location in a premium unit at a premium time, plus be able to book it a month before anyone who had less than the select status.
However the other part of the story is the contract says if bought after July 1 2022, I can't sell it! I can only Will it if I die or give it to my kids. That's insane to me! What did I buy if I can't sell it! That part scares me.

 

[SueDonJ]

Sorry, I inadvertently indicated I liked the last post.

I just tested it with my Like of the same post - any that you inadvertently click can be undone by simply going back to the same post and clicking Like again.

 

[SueDonJ]

Absolutely not, I just don't understand why you and others are so complacent about the inadequacy of a product amid known problems for users. And Abound is very likely a perpetuation of those problems. Abound brings no solution.

I do agree the only safe haven is in buying resale where you can better control the outcomes.

Enjoy your day.

I haven't bought Trust Points, have no intention to buy Trust Points, but I'm very happy with the points allotments of my enrolled Weeks (which are among the highest points-value Weeks in Marriott) and I am OVER THE MOON with the value of exchanges I get with Abound compared to what I ever got from Interval Int'l.

For me Abound (formerly Destination Club) is simply an exchange company, and compared to the others it works the best for my needs. I don't have any illusions about being able to book whatever I want wherever I want whenever I want, but I have a working knowledge of how to best position myself for the highest-demand inventory and I know which low-demand inventory fits into my travels. That's about the best we can hope for from a floating (as opposed to fixed) timeshare ownership where "subject to availability" is always the most important caveat, isn't it?

 

[JIMinNC]

A lot of people seem to complain about the availability, so they seem to come short on that measure as well. Regardless, I do not think that what you actually own is not relevant. You cannot rely just on other owners depositing, patterns and rules can change anytime.

Yes, some complain, but those tend to be folks who are focused on getting some of the highest demand reservations. In timeshare, that’s always been something of a crapshoot. Points don’t change that. Fortunately for us, most of those super high demand times are the absolutely last times we would want to try to get reservations. YMMV.

 

[timsi]

Yes, some complain, but those tend to be folks who are focused on getting some of the highest demand reservations. In timeshare, that’s always been something of a crapshoot. Points don’t change that. Fortunately for us, most of those super high demand times are the absolutely last times we would want to try to get reservations. YMMV.

There is no way of knowing who those people are. But even if you were right and you could prove it with a study, there are typically cheaper alternatives for the lower demand reservations: Interval getaways and exchanges, renting from owners or renting discounted nights on the traditional online booking channels. You do not need to pay tens of thousands of dollars to have access through Abound.