A great read on Timeshare Sales Presentation strategy!

[RunCat]

Are you saying there is a moral imperative to be honest with liars?

IMO, yes. Morality is not conditional. Albeit, making moral decisions (ethics) is usually conditional since it may require the weighting of different moral imperatives.

 

[Ty1on]

IMO, yes. Morality is not conditional. Albeit, making moral decisions (ethics) is usually conditional since it may require the weighting of different moral imperatives.

Sales is theatre. By not taking on a role of her own, a sales target places herself at a disadvantage.

 

[RunCat]

...I think all the author had to do was show the math doesn't work ex developer at retail and the result would have been the same -...Math speaks for itself - end of story!

As I described above, a good salesman can show how the math works at a retail price; albeit the math is better purchasing a resale. I've talked to many people about timeshares at retail. IMO, it takes about 10 years to reach the break-even point, based on retail, vs rental (depending on what you own and where you are staying). Too many people look at a short term time frame for this type of expenditure and are disappointed. And if you are buying resale, then you are benefiting from someone else that did pay retail. Nothing wrong with that. It is something to keep in mind.

 

[escanoe]

I don't care to go to anymore "updates" but every time we go to Bluegreen in Orlando on a Bonus rental (which we use a lot since we live here) (and only $79 for a 2 br 2 ba) they send us to the concierge to get a parking pass and pester us to go to another Update. One character next to us overheard we lived in Kona Hawaii at one time, and tried to say he was once a resident of Hawaii also . I asked him something specific that mostly only those that live there know, and caught him as he was not a local(Kamaiana) caught him lying but he didn't care. They would not give me my parking pass for at least 10 minutes, till I had to raise my voice and demand my parking pass, (NOW). I despise these tactics especially when going for only 2 nites and time is more important than money. BTY I got a call from one of their offices that showed ID from Arizona, to try and get me another owner update maybe a week after this visit, and I told him to tag my account and never, never , never offer me another update, or else , what can we do...basically nothing but put up with their pestering attitude each time we go and enjoy their resort. I use the Bonus nites often to try and make up for the thousands I've lost in the past buying TS,s.

I always tell them first thing at the parking pass counter that I just want a pass and have no interest in attending a presentation. I may need to say "no" one more time politely, but I have yet to have a hard time getting a parking pass or felt they were trying to delay me. I imagine if you start answering the questions in their script you could be there for a while. When I have honestly told them my spouse is not traveling with me, they hand me the pass and have me on my way as fast as they can.

I have not gone to a timeshare presentation since we have been timesharing.

 

[daviator]

I get a little tired of reading articles which decry timeshares as being a horrible product, suitable for nobody.

I absolutely agree that the industry often uses high-pressure sales to sell their products to people who can't afford them or can't actually use them. But there are thousands and thousands of timeshare owners who happily make good use of their vacation ownerships. I am certainly happy with mine and feel they have allowed me to save a lot of money over the years, as well as allowing me to stay in a higher-quality environment than I'd probably be willing to pay for by the night.

Timeshares are not for everyone, and they're probably not for many of those who buy them, but they can be fantastic. For me, they have been.

Decades ago, I took a multi-day Karrass negotiating training seminar. That company is still around, and their program (assuming it is basically the same as it was) incorporates many techniques used in timeshare sales. I remember being amused the first time I went to a timeshare presentation, twenty years ago — the presentation where I ended up buying my first vacation ownership. The salesman was using techniques straight out of the seminar I'd taken, the most amusing being a series of "Yes" questions — they ask a series of questions they're sure you'll answer yes to, before they get to the closing questions where they NEED you to answer yes. The funniest one was "Do you like to take vacations?" I think I answered no, just because the question itself was so obvious and stupid.

I do think that many of these sales techniques are pretty effective on folks who aren't familiar with them. But once you know what they are, you can recognize them and then they don't work well. (But hey, I ended up buying, so who am I to say they didn't work?)

 

[RunCat]

I get a little tired of reading articles which decry timeshares as being a horrible product, suitable for nobody.

I absolutely agree that the industry often uses high-pressure sales to sell their products to people who can't afford them or can't actually use them. But there are thousands and thousands of timeshare owners who happily make good use of their vacation ownerships. I am certainly happy with mine and feel they have allowed me to save a lot of money over the years, as well as allowing me to stay in a higher-quality environment than I'd probably be willing to pay for by the night.

Timeshares are not for everyone, and they're probably not for many of those who buy them, but they can be fantastic. For me, they have been.

Decades ago, I took a multi-day Karrass negotiating training seminar. That company is still around, and their program (assuming it is basically the same as it was) incorporates many techniques used in timeshare sales. I remember being amused the first time I went to a timeshare presentation, twenty years ago — the presentation where I ended up buying my first vacation ownership. The salesman was using techniques straight out of the seminar I'd taken, the most amusing being a series of "Yes" questions — they ask a series of questions they're sure you'll answer yes to, before they get to the closing questions where they NEED you to answer yes. The funniest one was "Do you like to take vacations?" I think I answered no, just because the question itself was so obvious and stupid.

I do think that many of these sales techniques are pretty effective on folks who aren't familiar with them. But once you know what they are, you can recognize them and then they don't work well. (But hey, I ended up buying, so who am I to say they didn't work?)

Similar to you, I've been trained in sales. And I too bought actually 4 times from the developer. 1st time was at Welk Escondido, probably in 2001. Bought a 2-bd lock off for 18K. Probably 14 years later we converted it to the Welk Points program(#2), primarily because my father had points and we could merge the accounts. In '07, we bought an EOY 2 BD Gold Season (81K pts) at Sheraton Mountain Vista. The logic was to get something more local since we had moved to CO in '04. They also gave us a HUGE bucket of promotional Starwood hotel points. And then in '16, we converted the EOY to an annual Sheraton Flex (nearly identical annual maintenance fees but annual usage). In each of those cases, the decision was not a quick one but rather something that I agonized over and analyzed. Almost rescinded the first Welk purchase. But talked to my mother who told me that she wishes that they had owned timeshares when we were growing up. At the time, the owned 3-fixed weeks with Welk but they did not make that purchase until after my brothers and I were adults.

I agonize occasionally over the maintenance fees. But I also know that I am going to places that I would have never considered paying retail for.

 

[cowboy]

I have heard that the easiest person to sell something to is a salesperson.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I get a little tired of reading articles which decry timeshares as being a horrible product, suitable for nobody.

I absolutely agree that the industry often uses high-pressure sales to sell their products to people who can't afford them or can't actually use them. But there are thousands and thousands of timeshare owners who happily make good use of their vacation ownerships. I am certainly happy with mine and feel they have allowed me to save a lot of money over the years, as well as allowing me to stay in a higher-quality environment than I'd probably be willing to pay for by the night.

Timeshares are not for everyone, and they're probably not for many of those who buy them, but they can be fantastic. For me, they have been.

Agree. Car showrooms also use high pressure tactics but few would denounce the auto industry and the cars they own as a horrible product because of the tactics used in the showroom.

 

[JeffC]

Agree. Car showrooms also use high pressure tactics but few would denounce the auto industry and the cars they own as a horrible product because of the tactics used in the showroom.

The difference is the residual value of the product being sold. While the resale value of a car (in normal times) drops the minute you leave the showroom, it does retain a higher percentage of its original sale price. While certain high end TS's maintain a decent percentage of their original price most do not. In fact most have a zero or negative value.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I don't know if you have ever noticed, but the salespeople almost always "used to live" or have a daughter/son that "lives" close to where you live! It's 100% for us. Even on Maui, the gal talked about how she "used to live" in Aurora, less than 12 miles from our house. I guess they really pay attention to the home address on that DL, huh?

 

[boraxo]

Not really insightful and needs a good editor - could have been said in about 10-20% of the current length.
While it did take the reader through the usual elements it did not do a good job explaining why each lie was a lie. This is something that I typically do with my salesperson. I explain why the “vacation math” is wrong, how I can buy (and have bought) the same week for 10-20% of the cost resale, why you can’t easily trade into prime Maui summer weeks, why there is little resale value, etc. The key math mistake they all make is to fail to consider the time value of the purchase money. $50k invested at 8% is $4000 per year. That buys a lot of lodging and cash comes with more flexibility.
Of course the ultimate result between my spiel and the authors spiel is identical - a stale salesman when they realize they won’t be collecting a commission. But at least I do it politely.

 

[easyrider]

Selling is selling. You either have the knack or you don't. No amount of training can make a great salesperson, imo.

The last team presentation for us was in Mexico. It was funny as every step was predictable. This presentation was a with a nice looking lady playing good guy, a sales manager playing bad guy and a representative of the developer playing good guy. The presentation began with the warm up by the lady, who presented the product in a precise fashion. Before we could object to anything she called over the sales manager to verify her numbers which were found to be too low. The sales manager increased the amount by 30% and was very abrasive about it because he was the bad guy. When he left the lady went over the numbers and made a call on her cell phone and here comes the developers rep who apologized for any price confusion. He then priced the product 40% less which was 10% less than the original number. It became urgent that decided now as there were only so many of these deals he could make was his close. When he didn't close he stayed polite and left. The lady talked for a bit and finally said she could keep that price open for that day but it would go up 40% tomorrow and what a great deal it was. ha ha ha

Bill

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Selling is selling. You either have the knack or you don't. No amount of training can make a great salesperson, imo.

The last team presentation for us was in Mexico. It was funny as every step was predictable. This presentation was a with a nice looking lady playing good guy, a sales manager playing bad guy and a representative of the developer playing good guy. The presentation began with the warm up by the lady, who presented the product in a precise fashion. Before we could object to anything she called over the sales manager to verify her numbers which were found to be too low. The sales manager increased the amount by 30% and was very abrasive about it because he was the bad guy. When he left the lady went over the numbers and made a call on her cell phone and here comes the developers rep who apologized for any price confusion. He then priced the product 40% less which was 10% less than the original number. It became urgent that decided now as there were only so many of these deals he could make was his close. When he didn't close he stayed polite and left. The lady talked for a bit and finally said she could keep that price open for that day but it would go up 40% tomorrow and what a great deal it was. ha ha ha

Bill

But any person can become better than they are. And improving one's communication and listening skills (which is key to persuasive communications) always leads to improved personal outcomes.

 

[easyrider]

But any person can become better than they are. And improving one's communication and listening skills (which is key to persuasive communications) always leads to improved personal outcomes.

That is true. I knew many sales people when we attended classes and seminars. These classes were interactive and the techniques needed to be practiced often to the point they seemed natural. This does improve sales. I also knew a few self motivated sales people that developed their own sales techniques that appeared to be an effortless instinct on their part. These are the few exceptional people with the knack or a natural gift that outsell almost everyone.

Bill

 

[Bunk]

The author was lucky to avoid the experience of ridicule. I've been on a few Marriott presentations where I tell them upfront that I am not interested in buying. When they talk about scarcity, I tell them that I hope Mariott keeps selling more Destination points, because the more points Marrriott sells, the easier it is for DW and me to buy points from a member to supplement our own points, and we don't have to pay any more money for a product which has little value if we try to sell. I tell them about some of the transactions where we have purchased Destination Club points from members and how easy it was. When the agents finish their spiel, I repeat that I don't intend to buy. Twice, the agents have told DW and me in substance that ther reason we are not buying is because we're not smart enough to understand what they are saying.

When the closers come in and realize we are not buying, they are usually pretty quick and tell us that we will never get such a good deal. The last time the closer said he was making a notation to never invite us to a presentation again.

A few times, the sales agent and closer ask us why we are wasting their time going to a presentation if we don't intend to buy. Once the closer asked us why we bothered purchasing an encore package if we didn't intend to buy.

I don't raise my voice but have heard other people raising their voices in neighboring rooms.

We'll be in Ocean Pointe for Thanksgiving Week. If we do attend a presentation, I figure that I can toughen up for this ordeal by participating in TUGG's covid forum (just joking)

 

[Bunk]

We are also members of Tradewinds. The sales experience is much different. Pre-covid it always followed the same routine. It was usually given by the captain on the day before the catamaran returns to port. Sometimes the mate participates in the talk. So we've been on the boat for 5 days and most people really enjoy the cruise and the captain. And the captain is expecting to receive a substantial tip from us when we leave, so he can't antagonize the guests on the talk. We've reupped a few times on these cruises.

We haven't been on a Tradewinds cruise post Covid. We are booked for Croatia this spring but I'm not sure whether Tradewinds will actually set up the base and what the covid situation will be and what my health situation will be. I expect that in any sales talk, considering our age, the Captain will tells us how great it would be to re-up so we can book an entire boat for family and friends. One of my comments will be that I've learned from the Caribbean hurricanes (especially the ones that wiped out St. Martin and Abaco) is how it makes no sense to buy a timeshare where we receive zero financial information from Tradewinds. Since Tradewinds has never released any financial information to us, I think that will be a quick deal breaker.

 

[ronandjoan]

This author (Ben) did not have the nasty ending that many people experience when they say “No.” We have experienced it several times. I think he should have addressed that and guided us what to do and how to overcome those certain salespersons and then how to cope with your bad feelings you have for some time afterwards when it happens.

Many companies no longer require both parties to be present to attend, nor the salary requirement, nor the age requirement (that used to be 70 years old.)

Timesharing Today magazine asked several of us to write articles about our sales presentation experiences and I wrote “Why Did We Say ‘Yes’? (and Why We Say ‘No’ Now)” which was published in their Sept/Oct 2018 issue.

I will include the last paragraph of that article here since we have now been enjoying going to the older resorts, called “Legacy Resorts,” more and most of my recent articles now for TSTODAY are from Legacy Resort visits.

“Legacy Resorts Are Not So Pushy​

Happily, at most smaller Legacy Resorts, even though they may have weeks for sale, the offices do not nag for purchases. We are enjoying staying in the smaller and locally managed resorts more and more. They are often older places that have sold all their inventory. When you check in, you are greeted by a friendly person who may have actually become your friend over time, and there is no mention of attending a sales presentation. There are weeks available for sale, but they may be from the owners themselves or weeks that have been returned to the resort for a variety of reasons. Interestingly, we have pursued purchasing more weeks from our favored resorts, such as the Townhouses at St Augustine Beach and Tennis Club, Telemark in Cable, WI, Stoneridge in Blanchard, ID and Blue Heron in Union, WA, although we may not always purchase. “

It is interesting to see how low the prices are (of course that’s what resale is all about.) My last purchased unit at St Augustine was Week 52 on eBay for $1 and then they did not even collect the $1; they just sent the deed.

In fact, we have just arrived at the Townhouses at St Augustine yesterday and we are SO HAPPY to finally be here after 2 years.

 

[LannyPC]

Thank you very much for sharing my article here. For anyone curious, this is a 100% true story without any form of embellishment.

I'll say this was an interesting article and had a similar experience. However, IMHO, you could've got the points across quite clearly with about 25% fewer words.

One other psychological factor that is often used at these presentations that you did not mention (maybe you didn't encounter this) is making the potential buyer look so stupid for not jumping at this "deal". For instance, the last one we attended, after saying No several times to their deal, the one sales person said to the other at the table (obviously for us to hear them) "Apparently, this guy doesn't want to save money on future vacations"

 

[ronandjoan]

I'll say this was an interesting article and had a similar experience. However, IMHO, you could've got the points across quite clearly with about 25% fewer words.

One other psychological factor that is often used at these presentations that you did not mention (maybe you didn't encounter this) is making the potential buyer look so stupid for not jumping at this "deal". For instance, the last one we attended, after saying No several times to their deal, the one sales person said to the other at the table (obviously for us to hear them) "Apparently, this guy doesn't want to save money on future vacations"

Yes, I did mention the possibility of—- and we’ve experienced—rudeness on the part of the salespersons … my term was nasty endings …and it was not addressed in the article and that behavior is uncalled for. It only leaves a bad impression and does not foster good timeshare reputations.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

That is true. I knew many sales people when we attended classes and seminars. These classes were interactive and the techniques needed to be practiced often to the point they seemed natural. This does improve sales. I also knew a few self motivated sales people that developed their own sales techniques that appeared to be an effortless instinct on their part. These are the few exceptional people with the knack or a natural gift that outsell almost everyone.

Bill

My point isn't about becoming a good sales person. Rather, that any person, regardless of sales ability or lack thereof, who learns to use basic persuasive communication techniques, will have better, healthier relationships with the people in their life. If only because we will spend more time actually listening to what other people are saying to us instead of only half-listening while we are waiting for a chance to say what we want to say.

 

[easyrider]

My point isn't about becoming a good sales person. Rather, that any person, regardless of sales ability or lack thereof, who learns to use basic persuasive communication techniques, will have better, healthier relationships with the people in their life. If only because we will spend more time actually listening to what other people are saying to us instead of only half-listening while we are waiting for a chance to say what we want to say.

That is true. Were your classes geared more for management or sales ? It seems like management.

Bill

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

That is true. Were your classes geared more for management or sales ? It seems like management.

Bill

The training I took was geared toward sales. But the trainer brought into the class it's usefulness in personal life.

That was key for getting me comfortable with sales, because it brought home the notion of ethical sales - using the skills to help another person solve a problem they have. That got me to the point that when a client has a need, and I can fill that need, I would actually be doing them a disservice by not letting them know I can solve that problem.

Later, though, I did an American Management Association course on leadership training that emphasized communication skills and team-building. There was a huge amount of overlap among those courses.

 

[easyrider]

The training I took was geared toward sales. But the trainer brought into the class it's usefulness in personal life.

That was key for getting me comfortable with sales, because it brought home the notion of ethical sales - using the skills to help another person solve a problem they have. That got me to the point that when a client has a need, and I can fill that need, I would actually be doing them a disservice by not letting them know I can solve that problem.

Later, though, I did an American Management Association course on leadership training that emphasized communication skills and team-building. There was a huge amount of overlap among those courses.

I started with management training to manage employees then went to sales training for outside sales. I agree there is alot of overlap. What was interesting to me was the differences of handling objections. With employees we try to mitigate objections before they occur and in a sales pitch we wanted customers to have objections that we overcame together before closing. An example is I would know the customer wanted grey and I would say I like that you picked tan so they would then object and affirm with grey.

Did solving problems lead to closing sales ?

Bill

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Did solving problems lead to closing sales ?

Absolutely. Selling environmental services, they are only hiring us because they have a problem. We seldom add to the bottom line. When I hired young staff out of college, they were still wearing their eco-green blush, believing our clients would think we're good news. I had to help them realize that having us visiting the facility for a proposal or a job is not good news. We are subtracting from net profitability that is the primary performance measure for the plant. We needed to always respect that and be aware of that.

My most common approach was to be upfront about that, and to say that our aim is to help you move stuff of the loading dock as cost-effectively as possible. That is our goal, and the work we will provide is a means to that goal.

The listening part comes in during my introductions, when I'm getting an overall perspective on the facility, or during the face-to-face when I try to find out how what we would provide is is going to mesh as seamlessly as possible into site operations. I often found that I was apparently the only consultant asking those types of questions, and it was something the client hadn't thought about. That's shut up and listen time, as you let the client build that element instead of me winging some solution. I would ask questions to keep things moving along.

When I hit on those elements, the client might have four or five proposals that would all address what the environmental issue. But mine would be the only proposal that showed how the activity was going to integrate with operations and would have features.

***

Another consideration for me was that I always thought that what my client really wants is a good performance review. So when I had the chance I tried to get information on how he was being evaluated to see if there was something of value I could add there. I also tried as hard as I could to get face time with my client's boss, so that when review time came I was a known quantity and the boss was comfortable with our work. We were seldom the cheapest proposal, and I wanted my client's boss to have a sense that they were receiving added value for the extra money spent. That way, if we came up at all during the performance review, my client wouldn't have to justify why they spent more money on us.

 

[easyrider]

My ex-brother in law invented the equipment used to remove contaminated soil out of the ground. I wonder if you know Chuck J ?

Bill