A great read on Timeshare Sales Presentation strategy!

[TUGBrian]

I found this article a wonderful read despite its length.

I have no doubt that ANYONE who has attended a Timeshare sales presentation can identify the strategies explained in great detail in this article regarding human nature, marketing and psychology!

it truly is amazing that these tactics work so well, they are STILL used today despite being intentionally misleading if not outright blatant lying to customers.

You Should Go to a Timeshare Presentation

Understand and recognize the six Principles of Persuasion in a timeshare presentation and learn how to recognize and counter them.

benjaminwann.com

 

[Luvtoride]

Brian, it was a long read but it was fascinating.

Yes, we’ve all been through these pitches and many (most) of us have fallen for them (before finding TUG). It is a well oiled technique(s) that I’m sure every Timeshare company follows because it DOES work enough of the time to make them successful!

Let’s not limit this to Timeshare presentations and sales though. Every good salesperson / sales organization uses aspects of these psychological tools to be successful. My daughter is a sales rep for a large national office supply company and is quite successful at her job. In fact she is well on her way to winning a luxury trip next year due to sales excellence. I’m thinking about the reciprocity principle as she hands out tons of cleaners, sanitizers, office supplies etc to potential customers.
These techniques have been researched and proven to work. That’s why they use them!

Thanks for the great article.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DRIless]

This reference really made me laugh.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Great article. Worth the long read. However, I didn't like the intentional lying and malpractice by the writer. If he had reported on his presentation without playing "tricks" it would have come across more professional and credible. Who knows if he looked indifferent or wasn't engaged or told them what he said - his lying made me wonder what was real vs. enhanced for drama.

 

[vikingsholm]

All of what we've bought has been resale through brokers or ebay. We've been to four or five presentations over the years. Saying no is a breeze. No no no no no. One of the best counters is to tell them how many timeshares that we own, and that we're fully booked and can't possibly use any more. Also, to occasionally show them that we understand how to maximize use of the system in more detail than they do in many respects. That has a way of knocking out some of the BS that was otherwise headed our way.

The only ones we've gone to in recent years are those where there has been a genuine change in the programs, and of course they position the visit as an "owner update". So we hold them to that - tell them from the beginning that they said it was an update, and so, that's what we're there for. If they try to get to too sales-y, I just wear them down with additional questions about the system changes, reminding them that they told us it was an update, even though we both know it's more than that in their minds.

It's painful to sit and listen to their various permutations when we know good and well that they will not get to yes with us. As the sales marathon plows on, they come to realize it sooner or later too, but those who just won't give up sooner or later pick up on our aggravation with their tactics.

All of that said, we've pretty much stopped going to any of these, and won't again unless there is another major system change where helpful information would actually come from this visit. It's just too annoying to sit through a few hours of their endless transparent tricks when we both know what the answer will be, and the gift is hardly worth the nuisance and their occasional prickliness when they realize they've just wasted their time.

 

[RunCat]

I used to sell timeshare for Starwood. I still go to timeshare presentations just to watch and learn. A couple of times, while on vacation at the timeshare where I used to work, I went on a presentation and was called out for attending. Basically, "Why are you here? You know how this works." I figured that if you are still calling me to give me $150-200 for a 90-min presentation, I'll take it. I guess I'm warped because I kinda enjoy them. As a matter of fact, in a couple of weeks, I am going on two different "Owner Updates" with the same timeshare company at two different locations. I even told the second marketer that I already had a presentation set for the following week. She did not care and booked it anyway.

 

[Luvtoride]

I used to sell timeshare for Starwood. I still go to timeshare presentations just to watch and learn. A couple of times, while on vacation at the timeshare where I used to work, I went on a presentation and was called out for attending. Basically, "Why are you here? You know how this works." I figured that if you are still calling me to give me $150-200 for a 90-min presentation, I'll take it. I guess I'm warped because I kinda enjoy them. As a matter of fact, in a couple of weeks, I am going on two different "Owner Updates" with the same timeshare company at two different locations. I even told the second marketer that I already had a presentation set for the following week. She did not care and booked it anyway.

RunCat, just curious, were you "taught" and trained in those 6 techniques in the article, when you were selling Timeshares for Starwood. It sounds like that would be the "playbook" for any timeshare organization to use for their Sales staff.

 

[Ty1on]

Great article. Worth the long read. However, I didn't like the intentional lying and malpractice by the writer. If he had reported on his presentation without playing "tricks" it would have come across more professional and credible. Who knows if he looked indifferent or wasn't engaged or told them what he said - his lying made me wonder what was real vs. enhanced for drama.

Are you saying there is a moral imperative to be honest with liars?

 

[Nowaker]

Are you saying there is a moral imperative to be honest with liars?

Not every salesperson is a liar. In my limited experience - only 1 out of 3 at best, or 1.5/3 at worst, depending on how you look at it

- Hilton, tour at Elara (Las Vegas), the guy was in fact a liar because he said it's an "investment" that you can "pass onto generations" or "sell for profit because the value of points only raises". Moreover, the dude was annoying, not likable, telling multiple boring stories about his grandchildren. He'd learn a lot from reading this article.
- Marriott, a virtual presentation, was absolutely zero bullshit. Very limited on the sales techniques. Everything he stated was legitimate, not a single lie. Not big on the "experience" thing, quickly went to numbers.
- Holiday Inn, tour at Scottsdale (Phoenix), the guy was likable and did a great job as a salesman. Followed the playbook from the article pretty perfectly, and yet, no single actual lie came from him, but there was a semi-lie (their calculations on hotels vs timeshares... there's some truth in their numbers). Anyway, we enjoyed the presentation. His manager was terrible, though, but that lasted only 2 minutes.

I'll continue purchasing weekend getaways from other timeshare companies. But I think I'll take a different route this time. I'll tell them in front that if they have me follow their typical salespath, they're guaranteed a "no" and 1.5h of lost time, but if we take my route, it may be a "yes" if maths checks out, and if it doesn't, we'll save each other around an hour of time. I'd go straight to vacation planning for a single year - pick dates, properties, unit sizes - and once we have that, get their purchase price-per-point and MF-per-point (for pure point systems like Marriott or Holiday Inn), unit purchase price and MF for that particular unit (for hybrid point systems like HGVC), and calculate the real nightly cost, as well as how long it takes to reach the point of ROI (return of investment).

I did it at home to find resale HGVC properties make sense - and oh heck they do. In fact, two months after the dreaded HGVC presentation at Elara, I'm sitting at 17,000 annual points, 34,000 points for 2022 (thanks to 2021 saved points!), acquired for merely $10,500 (incl. closing and post-closing fees), and annual MFs will be a total of $2,996.88 + $193 club fee. $0.176 MFpp, or $0.188 MFpp incl. club fee. Very decent for the total price I paid. (Getting to the same number of points with Platinum only properties with the best MFpp would cost multiples of what I paid, extending the point of ROI by many years. Definitely not worth it.)

 

[Ty1on]

Most good lies have an underpinning of truth

 

[benwann1]

Great article. Worth the long read. However, I didn't like the intentional lying and malpractice by the writer. If he had reported on his presentation without playing "tricks" it would have come across more professional and credible. Who knows if he looked indifferent or wasn't engaged or told them what he said - his lying made me wonder what was real vs. enhanced for drama.

Hey there, author here. Please explain how I"m lying. Word for word, this is my experience with Hilton.

 

[benwann1]

I found this article a wonderful read despite its length.

I have no doubt that ANYONE who has attended a Timeshare sales presentation can identify the strategies explained in great detail in this article regarding human nature, marketing and psychology!

it truly is amazing that these tactics work so well, they are STILL used today despite being intentionally misleading if not outright blatant lying to customers.

You Should Go to a Timeshare Presentation

Understand and recognize the six Principles of Persuasion in a timeshare presentation and learn how to recognize and counter them.

benjaminwann.com

Thank you very much for sharing my article here. For anyone curious, this is a 100% true story without any form of embellishment.
Ben

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

This is all standard sales procedure. I went through it in my career training - it was dubbed "persuasive communications". It even fits in with the old Dale Carnegie courses on how to win friends and influence people.

One point that my instructors drilled home was the techniques are merely techniques. The morality or immorality depends on how they are deployed. An example he cited was to consider a situation where someone you care about is doing something that requires correction. Think of a spouse, or a child, a relative, or a good friend. Is it more effective to stop or redirect the activity by force, or is it more effective to persuade the other person that they are better off by making the change?

The morality issue comes into play when a "seller" uses persuasion techniques to manipulate someone to get what the "seller" wants with little to no regard for whether the "buyer" is getting what they really need. When that happens, people inevitably and correctly feel as if they've been manipulated or played. That doesn't have to be a monetary sale; those same techniques can be, and often are, used to manipulate people in personal relationships for private or selfish ends.

My training stressed the importance of understanding what the "problem" is that the "buyer" needs to have solved. That is the benefit provided. What we sell are the features to deliver that benefit. And as the seller, ff you accomplish that, then as the seller you should expect to get fair and appropriate compensation for the value of the services provided. It's when you don't solve the problem that difficulties arise.

 

[california8399]

This is a great article and I will look up the book he highlighted. This reminds me of a course we took through work about the salesbrain. It was really fascinating and laid out, as this article did, the ways that sales people are trained to reach to our "lizard brain" and guide us to say yes. My favorite local bagel ship made a subtle change recently. They started asking each customer who paid by credit card if they would like to add a tip on the card. I go to this place a lot, usually twice per week. I used to tip one every 4-5 trips (it is service at a counter not table service and since COVID, take out only.) Since they started asking that question, I tip every time and so does everyone else. Even if I pay cash, I now feel like I have to tip. I think this falls into the author's categories of liking and social proof.

 

[RunCat]

RunCat, just curious, were you "taught" and trained in those 6 techniques in the article, when you were selling Timeshares for Starwood. It sounds like that would be the "playbook" for any timeshare organization to use for their Sales staff.

Not explicitly. Timeshare sales, like most sales, are often a churn and burn industry with some basic training. There was a script that had to be memorized and a sales guide that covered many of these points. But at the end of the day, it was up to the sales person to maintain numbers. ($$/tour rolling average). And every salesman used many of those techniques. There was also a strong emphasis on the financial side that seemed to have been glossed over in the article. And even though many, rightfully, advocate purchasing re-sale, I think it needs to be remembered that at some point each of those resales was an initial full retail purchase. And that purchase, at the time, made believed to make both financial and emotional sense.

 

[DeeCee]

Our recent “owners update”, which we were invited and encouraged to do repeatedly prior to our trip to our resort (we own)was very interesting, to say the least. Hard sell and down right nasty at the end when we didn’t buy “points”. I’ll never do it again. They can keep their $175 food vouchers. I was getting just as annoyed the sale presenter, as when we were asked “what am I missing?” (Twice and not nicely) after we said no, I had to remind her that we were invited by them and encouraged by them and told no pressure just go see what’s new by them. Her nasty attitude when she got the feeling we were not buying is downright uncalled for and rude, I don’t care how many awards she won for her sales record. We’re more than ok after that presentation with not owning anymore of their timeshare than we do.
Dee

 

[dukebigtom]

I found this article a wonderful read despite its length.

I have no doubt that ANYONE who has attended a Timeshare sales presentation can identify the strategies explained in great detail in this article regarding human nature, marketing and psychology!

it truly is amazing that these tactics work so well, they are STILL used today despite being intentionally misleading if not outright blatant lying to customers.

You Should Go to a Timeshare Presentation

Understand and recognize the six Principles of Persuasion in a timeshare presentation and learn how to recognize and counter them.

benjaminwann.com

I must be doing something wrong. I can’t find the actual article. Can you send me a link?
Thanks,,
BigTom

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Are you saying there is a moral imperative to be honest with liars?

IDK...I havent thought about this enough to take a position.

What I do believe is that the article would have stronger if the author avoided lying and maintained the high ground. It would have laid bare the issues with less distraction and without raising questions about the author's accuracy of reporting.

 

[SueDonJ]

Hey there, author here. Please explain how I"m lying. Word for word, this is my experience with Hilton.

I might not have said outright lying but you admit you weren't completely honest, either. You admit that you bought the pitch knowing of others' experiences with timeshare sales and looked forward to a "fun in a twisted way" (paraphrased) experience. You admit to 'dressing down' in an attempt to skew the salesperson's image of your financial status. You admit that you took advantage of the pitch for a repeat trip to DC but you told the salesperson your vacations were all inexpensive camping trips. Etcetcetc ... Basically, you admit that you and your wife developed personas and a script meant to make you appear as people who do not fit the mold of a timeshare owner, and you repeatedly patted yourself on the back for having stuck to that script at various points in the presentation.

That's not necessarily a bad thing; lots of TUGgers take advantage of the gifts offered for timeshare presentations and have a good time doing it.

But I agree with @CalGalTraveler that you played the game equally as disingenuous as you accuse the salesman of having played it. The only difference is, you turned the experience into a Psychology101 paper while the salesperson was just trying to do his job.

 

[SueDonJ]

Are you saying there is a moral imperative to be honest with liars?

Are you saying that moral imperatives are situational?

 

[Dakine]

I found this article a wonderful read despite its length.

I have no doubt that ANYONE who has attended a Timeshare sales presentation can identify the strategies explained in great detail in this article regarding human nature, marketing and psychology!

it truly is amazing that these tactics work so well, they are STILL used today despite being intentionally misleading if not outright blatant lying to customers.

You Should Go to a Timeshare Presentation

Understand and recognize the six Principles of Persuasion in a timeshare presentation and learn how to recognize and counter them.

benjaminwann.com

I don't care to go to anymore "updates" but every time we go to Bluegreen in Orlando on a Bonus rental (which we use a lot since we live here) (and only $79 for a 2 br 2 ba) they send us to the concierge to get a parking pass and pester us to go to another Update. One character next to us overheard we lived in Kona Hawaii at one time, and tried to say he was once a resident of Hawaii also . I asked him something specific that mostly only those that live there know, and caught him as he was not a local(Kamaiana) caught him lying but he didn't care. They would not give me my parking pass for at least 10 minutes, till I had to raise my voice and demand my parking pass, (NOW). I despise these tactics especially when going for only 2 nites and time is more important than money. BTY I got a call from one of their offices that showed ID from Arizona, to try and get me another owner update maybe a week after this visit, and I told him to tag my account and never, never , never offer me another update, or else , what can we do...basically nothing but put up with their pestering attitude each time we go and enjoy their resort. I use the Bonus nites often to try and make up for the thousands I've lost in the past buying TS,s.

 

[TUGBrian]

I must be doing something wrong. I can’t find the actual article. Can you send me a link?
Thanks,,
BigTom

the link is in the first post, its within the preview box showing the article title etc.

 

[55534442]

I found this article a wonderful read despite its length.

I have no doubt that ANYONE who has attended a Timeshare sales presentation can identify the strategies explained in great detail in this article regarding human nature, marketing and psychology!

it truly is amazing that these tactics work so well, they are STILL used today despite being intentionally misleading if not outright blatant lying to customers.

You Should Go to a Timeshare Presentation

Understand and recognize the six Principles of Persuasion in a timeshare presentation and learn how to recognize and counter them.

benjaminwann.com

This is an excellent article. If you read and PRACTICE the concepts presented in the article you should be able to withstand the sales assault at a timeshare presentation.

 

[DaMarial]

I think the author "lied" to disengage himself from developing a connection with the sales person. I think all the author had to do was show the math doesn't work ex developer at retail and the result would have been the same - forgo the personal "distancing" shenanigans on the author's part. Math speaks for itself - end of story!

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

If you really want to play a game with it, do a role reversal. You be the salesperson, and your "sale" is to convince the sales person that buying a timeshare is a bad idea. Use all of the tricks laid out, but make it your presentation.