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[2018] So I want out. And don’t care about my credit.

TheTimeTraveler

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You won't get anywhere near $19,900 for that. You might be really lucky if you get $1,990 for it.

Don't pay anyone to sell it. Put it on eBay and sell to the highest bidder and you'll finally be done with it once and for all.

Here's hoping!




.
 
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jwalk03

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$19,900? No way. Who was this appraiser?!
 

vacationtime1

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Hey guys, so I’m doing a follow up.

I did contact someone to see what my timeshare is worth to see if it’s worth selling. Is it even worth paying someone to try and sell ? I feel like there is no market for it and I’ll just end up losing more money. Any feedback would be appreciated!

He appraised it at $19,900.

To answer your specific question, it is not worth paying anyone to market your timeshare for you (other than an advertising placement of < $100 or a broker who is paid out of escrow).

We get a lot of questions re upfront fees; the answer is that they are always a rip-off. After all, why should they do anything after they have your money?

The $19K "appraisal" is part of the scam; it is to entice you to pay the upfront fee. As others have suggested, ask that "appraiser" to pay you half of that in cold, hard cash and see how fast they run.
 

BeckySmith

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I think you already know that 19.9 is no where near what you can get. Tell that appraiser he can have it for half of his appraisal and see how fast he backpedals. Would you be willing to tell us who they were and whether they had an upfront fee to list your timeshare for sale?
Buyandsellmytimehare.com . I didn’t fully understand what they wanted me to pay for them to sell it for me . I’m tryig to make sense of their email. I honestly don’t know what my timeshare is worth, I’m trusting him when he says it’s worth 19.9. But I also know I won’t get that.
 

Egret1986

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I honestly don’t know what my timeshare is worth, I’m trusting him when he says it’s worth 19.9.

Any "trust" that your placing in him is misplaced. That's why folks on TUG shout "never pay an upfront fee."

These folks continue to stay in business, making a living on those that "trust" what they are being told. As has been stated, why would these companies have any incentive to try to sell your timeshare after they've already been paid for their "services."

Don't trust but rather Verify. You will find it may be worth around $2,000. Listen to the other posters and don't pay anyone anything to sell it for you. Learn how to do it yourself.

George

Good advice.
 

vacationhopeful

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You are learning ... if a person is working only in the timeshare industry, they are conning the desperate or the hopeful or the dreamers.

A realistic or a person who had done REAL research, knows a 1 week vacation is NOT a 2nd home nor an asset which has an open market value. It is really a PREPAID vacationing option whose orginally seller had a BIG expense budget to market a vanity and leisure product to people via sales site financing by hardsell (deceptive) sales methods.
 

LannyPC

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I guess I should say I’d like to trust him when he says 19,900...

...which is exactly one of a number of things scammers prey on. They know that their potential victims are either ignorant, delusional, or hanging on to a thin hope about the genuine resale value of such timeshares.
 

Egret1986

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...which is exactly one of a number of things scammers prey on. They know that their potential victims are either ignorant, delusional, or hanging on to a thin hope about the genuine resale value of such timeshares.

Similar situation with the developer salesman on the front end. Unfortunately, many that are duped by the developer salesmen into buying don't learn the lesson and find themselves once again paying for promises and lies, believing the BS that's fed to them. Burned on both ends.

I
 

SueDonJ

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I would write them a letter stating you are rescinding based on fraud, and cite all the false things that they did and said that induced you into the contract, including the loan. Then stop paying, and don't communicate any further. No they won't take it back, and yes there are plenty of exculpatory clauses in the contract, but this will at least document the basis for your refusal to pay, and could provide ammo if they ever sue you, or you want to sue them for damamging your credit in the future.

I'm surprised at this reply coming from an attorney. Based on what the OP posted before it (and I haven't read further yet,) what indications of fraud are you seeing? The OP says that she wants out because she wants to use the money she owes for something else, and that she's surprised that various usage options come with an added cost. That's not fraud, it's a combination of the owner's change of mind, and, failure to do due diligence before entering into a contract that demands action and responsibility from all parties.

I get it, Westgate is bad, Westgate is the devil. Some will say that all timeshare developers are the devil. But suggesting that spurious claims of fraud should be leveled against any timeshare developers when owners simply don't want the responsibility anymore, does nothing but counter the widespread claims that the problems in the industry are caused solely by developers.

This would be a completely different response IF true financial hardship and resultant bankruptcy were the reasons given for defaulting on the timeshare loan. That's not what I see here. In this case, the OP has already made up her mind to default and let the chips fall where they may. That's a hard life lesson but where's the sense in assigning blame for it elsewhere? Over the years I've seen hundreds of TUG posts stating that defaults end up costing all of the other owners one way or another, and just don't understand why I don't see them in this thread. :shrug:
 
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SueDonJ

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I can't help noting the how differently BeckySmith and MassanuttenOwner (on the Eastern States Timesharing forum) described their timeshare acquisitions. And how different were the responses.

BeckySmith is much younger and much more mature in her outlook.

This OP is certainly less bombastic, I'll grant you that. But it's the comparison between responses in the two threads that has me shaking my head - both OP's think they were hoodwinked by sales reps during high-pressure presentations and both simply want out of the financial responsibility to which they agreed. But that one's getting lambasted for shirking that responsibility while leaving other owners in the lurch, and this one is getting coddled with advice of how to minimize the hits to her credit and how to cry spurious claims of fraud!

{ETA} There are also two similar threads on the Wyndham forum. There one OP is being accused of being a shill while the other is being told to learn how to make the best of the ownership.

Some days TUG is completely baffling.
 
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TUGBrian

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if you pay me $100 ill tell you its worth 25k and have no evidence to back it up! =)

for free ill tell you its nearly worthless and provide you countless examples to back it up.

see where we are going with this? Unfortunately at this point it appears you are convinced that everyone here is incorrect and are still planning on listening to the folks who are blatantly lying to you in order to milk you out of even more money. That is very disappointing, but you are an adult and should make your own decisions, we are here to simply present the facts to you, not make those decisions for you.
 

davidvel

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I'm surprised at this reply coming from an attorney. Based on what the OP posted before it (and I haven't read further yet,) what indications of fraud are you seeing? The OP says that she wants out because she wants to use the money she owes for something else, and that she's surprised that various usage options come with an added cost. That's not fraud, it's a combination of the owner's change of mind, and, failure to do due diligence before entering into a contract that demands action and responsibility from all parties.

I get it, Westgate is bad, Westgate is the devil. Some will say that all timeshare developers are the devil. But suggesting that spurious claims of fraud should be leveled against any timeshare developers when owners simply don't want the responsibility anymore, does nothing but counter the widespread claims that the problems in the industry are caused solely by developers.

This would be a completely different response IF true financial hardship and resultant bankruptcy were the reasons given for defaulting on the timeshare loan. That's not what I see here. In this case, the OP has already made up her mind to default and let the chips fall where they may. That's a hard life lesson but where's the sense in assigning blame for it elsewhere? Over the years I've seen hundreds of TUG posts stating that defaults end up costing all of the other owners one way or another, and just don't understand why I don't see them in this thread. :shrug:
I agree, and certainly never suggested that "spurious claims of fraud should be leveled against" anyone. In my book, being lied to and mislead in relation to a contract's formation, could clearly meet the definition of fraud. In every case? Of course not.

We can certainly parse words till the end of time as to what "fraud" means. (See, eg. Bill Clinton "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is." cerca 1998) The OP stated (emphais added):
Also, yes, I will not be recommending any of my family or friends to Westgate. They told me about all the perks of owning a Westgate TS just to find out it’s all memberships that cost an arm and a leg.

I’m not impressed. Even if I could manage the payments and continue on - I still feel lied to and mislead.
My interpretation was that she was not told the truth (ie the disclosure of material facts) that the usage being described was not part of her purchase, but was some separate membership or costs, and that otherwise she felt they lied to her during the presentation. What if when you bought your TS you were told you could convert your week each year for 120K MRP, but it was never disclosed that there is a $5,000 conversion fee each time to do so? Would you consider yourself just "surprised" or mislead as to the purchase?

I suggested that she "write them a letter stating you are rescinding based on fraud, and cite all the false things that they did and said that induced you into the contract, including the loan." If she in fact cited things that were false that induced her, this could qualify as fraud. In any event she would simply be writing a letter based upon her beliefs and perceptions of what occurred. Noting definitive there.

Also, given all of the stories of Westgate's conduct, stated both here and elsewhere, regarding hiding of documents, assertions in sales presentations, investigations of their practices, etc., coupled with what the OP perceived, it is certainly plausible that WG induced her with false statements.

But I guess, it may be possible, that in this one case WG (aka the Devil?), did the right thing, was totally honest, presented all facts material to the transaction of which it was aware and that the buyer was not, and did not mislead or lie to the OP as she believes.

My point was to preserve any claim that she may have in the event that there was any future action, given that she planned to walk away. I still think its a good idea, but of course she should not rely on my comments as I don't represent her.
 

chapjim

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This OP is certainly less bombastic, I'll grant you that. But it's the comparison between responses in the two threads that has me shaking my head - both OP's think they were hoodwinked by sales reps during high-pressure presentations and both simply want out of the financial responsibility to which they agreed. But that one's getting lambasted for shirking that responsibility while leaving other owners in the lurch, and this one is getting coddled with advice of how to minimize the hits to her credit and how to cry spurious claims of fraud!

{ETA} There are also two similar threads on the Wyndham forum. There one OP is being accused of being a shill while the other is being told to learn how to make the best of the ownership.

Some days TUG is completely baffling.

The difference that struck me was the degree to which the two posters took responsibility for their actions. For MassanuttenOwner, it was all the seller's fault. BeckySmith at least admitted she made a mistake.
 

geist1223

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What was written in the Contract? Did she read the Contract? If you want to have fun with the Sales Office start making changes to the Contract with an ink pen - additions and deletions. They will totally freak out and tell you that you can not make changes. Well that would mean it is not a negotiated Contract.
 

davidvel

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What was written in the Contract? Did she read the Contract? If you want to have fun with the Sales Office start making changes to the Contract with an ink pen - additions and deletions. They will totally freak out and tell you that you can not make changes. Well that would mean it is not a negotiated Contract.
It won't be a contract at all. Just a rejected offer.
 

RX8

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Buyandsellmytimehare.com . I didn’t fully understand what they wanted me to pay for them to sell it for me . I’m tryig to make sense of their email. I honestly don’t know what my timeshare is worth, I’m trusting him when he says it’s worth 19.9. But I also know I won’t get that.

There is no such website by the name of buyandsellmytimeshare.com. Curious as to what it is exactly.

I would bet that as part of their "appraisal" that they asked you how much you owed on your loan. Although this info makes NO difference on a true appraisal these scumbags will use that information against you. If you told them you owed $14,000 they will make sure their "appraisal" will be high enough over that amount so that it would appear that you would realize equity after paying off your loan and paying their fee. The reality is that you pay them say $1,500 upfront for the "advertising/marketing" of your timeshare and all they do is post your ad on their hard to navigate website alongside hundreds of other over priced timeshares. Your timeshare not only won't sell but you would likely never even get an inquiry. Of course, the scumbags won't care because they already got your money.
 

ottawasquaw

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I'm surprised at this reply coming from an attorney. Based on what the OP posted before it (and I haven't read further yet,) what indications of fraud are you seeing? The OP says that she wants out because she wants to use the money she owes for something else, and that she's surprised that various usage options come with an added cost. That's not fraud, it's a combination of the owner's change of mind, and, failure to do due diligence before entering into a contract that demands action and responsibility from all parties.

I get it, Westgate is bad, Westgate is the devil. Some will say that all timeshare developers are the devil. But suggesting that spurious claims of fraud should be leveled against any timeshare developers when owners simply don't want the responsibility anymore, does nothing but counter the widespread claims that the problems in the industry are caused solely by developers.

This would be a completely different response IF true financial hardship and resultant bankruptcy were the reasons given for defaulting on the timeshare loan. That's not what I see here. In this case, the OP has already made up her mind to default and let the chips fall where they may. That's a hard life lesson but where's the sense in assigning blame for it elsewhere? Over the years I've seen hundreds of TUG posts stating that defaults end up costing all of the other owners one way or another, and just don't understand why I don't see them in this thread. :shrug:
Yikes, this sure struck a nerve.

There's no reason an attorney cannot post his opinion or advise. I know I am grateful to tuggers for the advise I've gotten over the years, especially from a vet when my dog was sick.

I think there is added sympathy knowing the reputation of t/s salespeople and worse, the reputation of Westgate. It's been years since research has come out about the development of the brain. Even though 18 is the legal age, we now know that young adults brains are not fully matured until their late 20's. I think the poster's age is huge in this case. Given her age, Canadian citizenship and circumstances, the advise is appropriate.

But fill us in on your definition of true financial hardship. This sure seems to fit the case for me. There's no need to file BK since she is Canadian and the T/S is in the US. There are always going to be reasons why people's circumstances change. I really do not see where the default of this contract is going to adversely effect anyone. On the contrary, maybe that is one of the reasons why it is so expensive to buy from the developer - default rate. It's a cost of doing business.
 

ottawasquaw

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Thank you for the response . That’s just it ! Westgate just asked me what I “roughly” made in a year. That’s it ! Took my credit card, deposit went though, then I signed a “authorization of payment” form where they charge my credit card my mortgage each month.

And In Canada , I’ve heard of companies or government positions requesting to do a credit check. But I’ve heard of people claiming bankruptcy and still getting said job.

Honestly, there was a lot of red flags during the whole process, I was so overwhelmed and kept asking the “hard” questions to them. Like “will I have a problem selling my timeshare?” “What is my timeshare worth?” (Which they out right lied to my face about and because I knew little about timeshares trusted them)

The whole sales pitch was around the fact that my mother was leasing the timeshare to test it out and when we were in Orlando March of 2017 she sat in a sales presentation which the whole time I kept putting the sales person on the spot and pretty much straight to his face that this TS was overpriced and a Load of crap. He “talked to his manager “ came back with a much better price and my mom said she’d sit on it. Well, when my mom gifted my uncle and his family with her last week I tagged along because he’s terminally ill with cancer so I went to help with my little cousins as they were doing the Disney thing and Universal thing. When I was there I was to sign off for my mother but when I went to sign off the sales lady said I could take over my moms offer and that someone on their end screwed up and my time share normally sells for $55,000 but today only (and because someone on their end screwed up) they legally had to honour this “really good deal”. So, I thought about it, drilled them, sales manager came over and everything . He clarified on some stuff and they both say in when I asked about resale, I asked how hard it would be to rent it out, I asked about everything cause I knew something that sells for 55,000 there’s no way they’d honour the 15. So I knew there was a catch, which I also asked , “what’s the catch?”

But it all happened so fast and they got my tires all pumped up and I was making a good income. But, as I previously stated. I’m making changes in my life and can’t afford it any longer.

I will google more , I may have already seen the link you’re tying to post.

Thank you again !
So, have you stopped making payments? Have you cancelled this CC? Closed this account? I don't see how you can "sell" it since you are still making payments and do not own it out right. Cut your losses. And cut your ties. If it shows up on a credit check, explain it the way you did here - openly and honestly.
It sounds like you had good intentions. Not everything in life works out.
 

ottawasquaw

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Do not consider what I am about to tell you as advice on what you should do. I am merely going to recount a personal experience of mine.

I am a dual US/Canadian citizen living permanently in Canada and snowbirding in the US during the winter so I have use for a US credit card. When I first went to apply for a credit card from a US domiciled bank for my winter use, I was declined because I had no credit rating in the US (my original one had fallen off because I had been gone for so many years) and they had no access (or couldn't be bothered to get it) to my Canadian credit bureau ratings. Since I had been a banker in the US before I moved to Canada I was finally able to wrangle one out of the bank where I used to work. Long story short, once I had that card, used it for a year and had a FICO score, I was easily able to obtain any CC I wanted. Based on my FICO score alone, because I have no US based employment or income!

So my point is this - unless something has changed, credit bureau reporting does not SEEM to cross borders. Sure you will trash your US credit bureau rating if you default to Westgate, but will any lender in Canada care? I have never heard of a Canadian bank checking or even thinking of checking a US credit bureau (but you might want to check with yours). And having read many, many, Canadian Equifax reports over the years, I have never seem a US entity report on one. Including mine, and I hold a variety of US based credit cards.

Heck, you might even be able to contact Equifax directly and ask them if any US based lenders ever make a report to them. Or get your favourite banker to make the inquiry for you. Of course if you LIVE in the US, none of this will matter to you, you will be (or should be) concerned about a US credit bureau rating. When you said you were a Canadian, I assumed that meant you lived in Canada.
PrairieGirl, I'm no expert but I do look at a lot of credit reports every day here in the US. I agree with you. In the US we are entitled to a free copy of our reports from each of the three major agencies annually. For peace of mind, it might be possible to get a copy of her Canadian reports and see if Westgate reports?
I've seen a few T/S on reports but I do not recall seeing Westgate - not saying they don't report in the US or even what name they use - it's possible it might be under another name, say if they have a finance arm.
 

ottawasquaw

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I don't think credit bureaus are going to categorize stopping timeshare payments as a major red flag. I remember we had an issue with a timeshare payment not getting posted to our account, which was completely the bank's fault, and when we went to buy our house that we are in now, two years later, we saw the negative on our credit report of a supposed missed payment. When I called the credit reporting agency, they told me to write a letter to the creditor and another to them credit bureau, and it was all taken care of without any further issues, and we were able to buy our house.

I remember specifically how the woman at the credit bureau felt about timeshares, and she said they are different from other debts because they are pretty much a scam. So that was in the early 1980's. I think their opinions of timeshare are probably even less today.
Cindy, thank you for letting us know that your experience was from the early 80's. The procedure for disputing an error on your report is much the same today. You contact the agency and they contact the creditor. If the creditor cannot document what they reported, it must be removed.
Timeshares are considered mortgages, just as the OP mentioned. A default or foreclosure on a mortgage typically prevents one from obtaining a new mortgage for 48 months following the default today.
And, of course, a default is much more serious than a late payment. Still, I think you are right - timeshares are not creditors that earns much sympathy, but rules are rules.
 
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