[2016] Account review email [Accts. suspended]

[bobdaz]

Has anyone ever received and email from Wyndham like this and what does it mean

Acting in our capacity as manager for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus, we have identified unusual activity on your account. We are currently in the process of reviewing and reconciling your account. During this period, your account is suspended. Please contact us at if you have any questions.

 

[ronparise]

Has anyone ever received and email from Wyndham like this and what does it mean

Acting in our capacity as manager for CLUB WYNDHAM Plus, we have identified unusual activity on your account. We are currently in the process of reviewing and reconciling your account. During this period, your account is suspended. Please contact us at if you have any questions.

It means your account is suspended because of unusual activity on your account

Did they have a telephone number in there.. Id call

 

[jediinprescott]

Account

I received the same email. Called the number and message said it would get back to me within 48 hours. Unable to do anything with my account.
Mike

 

[debrinkleyusa]

Account Suspended

My account has been suspended too. It was first suspended over a week ago but I was then given partial access by letting me call in to make cancellations and buy guest certificates. Now I have been fully suspended again but I don't know why. I have sent emails and left phone messages so I am just waiting for the call back. I hope no family vacations get ruined over this. Why all the hate from Wyndham for owners paying big maintenance fees and sending them new guests to make their presentations to?
Best wishes to all being impacted and hoping for amicable solution.

DB

 

[bobbyoc23]

Does this seem to be happening to "mega renters" as Wyndham might call them? I wonder if this is happening to people with less than 2,000,000 or whatever points they use to define "mega renters"

 

[ronparise]

Does this seem to be happening to "mega renters" as Wyndham might call them? I wonder if this is happening to people with less than 2,000,000 or whatever points they use to define "mega renters"

It seems to be "activity" based. I know one owner that has under 2milliom and got the email and another over 10 million that didn't. I suspect they used several filters and cast a wide net.

 

[bobdaz]

I called the number and still no response, what is usually the out come of the review

 

[VivianLynne]

Wyndham could be stomping on their 'outside' rental competition. I was wondering WHY they had not done this a long time ago...except they most likely were gauging the push back (unity) of the "megarenters" or just weakening the players .... less revenue over a 12-18 months, raising MFs, adding on new or increasing fees, playing with cancelling all overlap reservations with point forfeiture ...... little things do add up. Small players turning in contracts ... under Ovations... stripping future contracts (buys) from the megarenter pool.

Less need to build new resorts ... free points are really cheap inventory to sell for $160-200 retail per 1,000 points. And the corporation bank balance GOES way up when inventory are dirt cheap (i.e. FREE).

 

[Jan M.]

I think it was about two years ago that I heard that Wyndham was changing owners use year. Because of this they may have ended up with more points than they actually owned and maybe now Wyndham is going back and auditing them. I remember after I heard about them changing the use year that I called in and made it very clear that I absolutely didn't want my use year changed to January 1 and was told that it would be much easier for Wyndham if everyone was on the same use year. Or it could be something else entirely.

 

[ronparise]

Ive talked to several others that got the email, and now I know where and when ground zero is. I know the first guy that was hit and in fact can pinpoint the phone call that set it off

What happened is that he called in to correct a mistake. He had cancelled some points and they didnt go back to the credit pool like they should have. The agent that he spoke with was having a problem fixing this and called in a supervisor who noticed that for every 2 million points he owned he had over 8 million points in reservations.. That looked fishy to the supervisor, and the next day that account was suspended.

Flash forward to yesterday and and lots of owners got the email. One guy I talked to has already been contacted by wyndham and reported in another thread here on tug that they were asking him questions, like "how did you get 8 million points in reservations and you only own 2 million

So it seems to me that after that first guy fell into their lap they designed a query to find others. Possibilities would be a high number of guest confirms, or a high number of reservations relative to points owned, or perhaps a high number of cancellations

I firmly believe that if you can explain how you use your account and how that would generate a relatively high number of reservations you will be back in business quickly. as long as what you do is within the rules. at least I hope so

Are they using this as an opportunity to flesh out mega renters and make life difficult for them?... Yes I think so
was thet the original purpose ? I doubt it

and I have a response to The death of the middle class rant above too, but dinners ready..gotta go

 

[ronparise]

Oh and answer the questions, no more and no less. Volunteer nothing

Ill modify this advice to say.. if you are guilty of some crime, or know you have broken the rules to game the system, then by all means volunteer nothing. But if you have nothing to hide, there is nothing to be lost and probably lots to gain (like a quicker resolution) by being open and honest

 

[CO skier]

Oh and answer the questions, no more and no less. Volunteer nothing

There are sure to be many VIP owners who will point to page 346 of the Club Wyndham Directory to defend cancel-rebook as a VIP benefit.

There will be others who will say, "The only reason I bought up to Platinum VIP is because the salesman showed me how to get all my reservations for half the credit cost of a studio."

There might even be a few who will maintain that NOT leveraging 2 million points into 8 million points using the various cancel-rebook scams would be like owning a Ferrari and never driving it out of Manhattan.

Who knows if Wyndham will buy any of it?

It is difficult to believe that Wyndham did know all this was going on. There have been posts about it in the past, but this time it sounds serious.

 

[ronparise]

There are sure to be many VIP owners who will point to page 346 of the Club Wyndham Directory to defend cancel-rebook as a VIP benefit.

There will be others who will say, "The only reason I bought up to Platinum VIP is because the salesman showed me how to get all my reservations for half the credit cost of a studio."

There might even be a few who will maintain that NOT leveraging 2 million points into 8 million points using the various cancel-rebook scams would be like owning a Ferrari and never driving it out of Manhattan.

Who knows if Wyndham will buy any of it?

It is difficult to believe that Wyndham did know all this was going on. There have been posts about it in the past, but this time it sounds serious.

the cancel and rebook trick has nothing to do with this.

What wyndham saw was an account that looks to have far more points in reservations (and available to make reservations with) than points owned>

Cancel and rebook doesnt create new points, If I start with a million points and make reservations that take a million points, then cancel and rebook at half price I will have 500000 points in reservations and 500000 points available to use. and I will still own 1,000,000 points. Thats not what wyndham saw. or better said, that saw that, but its not what triggered this witch hunt

They saw accounts like one of mine where I own contracts worth 651000 points and where I have over 21 current reservations with 2.1 million points in them and 350000 points available to use>>(as Ive said in another post a 4:1 ratio is easy to explain with the credit pool) In that same account there are 144 past reservations (this year) where I have used 144 guest confirmations

In this account the ratios are apparently not far enough away from whats expected, to have triggered the suspension.*they must not have looked at guest confirms) But there are other accounts caught up in this Witch Hunt, where the ratios have at least tickled the curiosity of someone at Wyndham and they want a closer look

accounts like one presidential reserve platinum account (not mine) with 2 million points owned, and 60 million points in current reservations.plus all the past 2016 reservations. That may be an extreme example but thats the kind of thing that caused Wyndham to go into panic mode. How the hell is that possible? You know the answer to this question, Co Skier> at least you posted about it in other threads here in the past... and it has nothing to do with cancel and rebook.

as a result of seeing whats possible (60 million points in a 2 million point account) Wyndham has already closed the program that made that possible. This Witch Hunt is designed, I think, to find other loopholes that had similar outcomes.


I agree with you cancelling and rebooking is a gross abuse of the system and has to be closed, but thats not the subject or purpose of this particular witch hunt.. They are looking for bigger problems, that in my opinion dont exist

 

[Braindead]

There are sure to be many VIP owners who will point to page 346 of the Club Wyndham Directory to defend cancel-rebook as a VIP benefit.

There will be others who will say, "The only reason I bought up to Platinum VIP is because the salesman showed me how to get all my reservations for half the credit cost of a studio."

There might even be a few who will maintain that NOT leveraging 2 million points into 8 million points using the various cancel-rebook scams would be like owning a Ferrari and never driving it out of Manhattan.

Who knows if Wyndham will buy any of it?

It is difficult to believe that Wyndham did know all this was going on. There have been posts about it in the past, but this time it sounds serious.

I have to back Ron & other renters on this they are NOT scammers. I have never read a post where they advocate or do anything outside of the program guidelines Wyndham set up. They simply understand the system and use it to full advantage . Then they turn around and share that knowledge with the rest of us . They should be applauded for this .Wyndham might make some changes after they get get their eyes opened wide on what the current system allows. You may like the changes Wyndham makes in the future. But call Ron and other scammers is totally off base

 

[Roger830]

Wyndham made the situation worse by allowing canceled points to return to the credit pool.

Now when a Christmas week is canceled and rebooked at a 50% discount in November, the points return to the credit pool not canceled points that had to be used by the end of the year.

Now in February, for every 1 million Christmas week points that were canceled and rebooked using the credit pool, there will be 1.5 million points for new reservations. The following year 1.75 million points will be available. Adding the use of future years pooled points compounds the problem.

 

[ronparise]

Wyndham could be stomping on their 'outside' rental competition. I was wondering WHY they had not done this a long time ago...except they most likely were gauging the push back (unity) of the "megarenters" or just weakening the players .... less revenue over a 12-18 months, raising MFs, adding on new or increasing fees, playing with cancelling all overlap reservations with point forfeiture ...... little things do add up. Small players turning in contracts ... under Ovations... stripping future contracts (buys) from the megarenter pool.

Less need to build new resorts ... free points are really cheap inventory to sell for $160-200 retail per 1,000 points. And the corporation bank balance GOES way up when inventory are dirt cheap (i.e. FREE).

I think you are right, wyndham wants us gone, but I think we are more of an irritation to them than an outright problem Kinda like a mosquito in my bedroom at night. Im gonna swat at it and maybe kill it, but chances are once its in, its probably gonna bite me. The thing is the bite is just a red spot for a couple of days and then it goes away.. What I do is put screens on the windows and make sure there is no standing water around my home to keep most of them out and keep the population down>> Wyndham has done that with mega renting. They keep the population down by making VIP ownerships expensive, and now with Ovation they are keeping the number of points available to us to a minimum. and they swat at us with regular rule changes like the 10 night rule> but they havent yet taken action like whats happening in Miami to combat Zika. But they could >> Ive said before that they can put me out of business by just offering me 2 cents a point for what I own, they havent done that yet but if you can believe Steve Holmes the ceo, they want to take back more inventory than Ovation is giving them Heres what he said in the first quarter 2106 earnings call

"we have not gotten that kind of response that we were thinking we might see on Ovation not as many people have taken us up on the offering, but we're going to continue to refine it and improve it and we think it will be nice way to get people to recycle out and leave gracefully."

so maybe they might just offer to buy us out, It would be a "two for one" for Wyndham, 1) provide low cost inventory to the sales force, and 2) put the mega renters out of business.

 

[Braindead]

Everyone needs to remember when Wyndham makes changes it affects us all. Good changes for all or bad changes for all. I personally hate CWA it waters down ARP you can have owners of over 70 resorts trying to get in 1 during ARP. One of the changes I have posted about when Wyndham changed the amount of free guest certificates. I have over 2 million points and only get 1. I have never rented a point but still could use more for family and friends. The old saying be careful for what you wish for. You may not like it when it comes true.

 

[Bigrob]

"we have not gotten that kind of response that we were thinking we might see on Ovation not as many people have taken us up on the offering, but we're going to continue to refine it and improve it and we think it will be nice way to get people to recycle out and leave gracefully."

so maybe they might just offer to buy us out, It would be a "two for one" for Wyndham, 1) provide low cost inventory to the sales force, and 2) put the mega renters out of business.

And the third leg of that stool is, to the extent they can dry up resale inventory, the only way to own Wyndham would be to buy direct. That to me provides the most promise for Wyndham to enhance their bottom line. Imagine if sales never had to defend direct purchase pricing versus ebay pricing. Since any resale points available have already produced huge sales revenue for Wyndham, they should have no problem buying back at Ron's price point or even higher to make sure inventory comes home and can only be (re)sold by them.

 

[CO skier]

But call Ron and other scammers is totally off base

You misread my post. I did not call Ron or anyone else a scammer; I called cancel-rebook a scam. Some people refer to cancel-rebook as a trick or loophole. It is all synonymous.

There are many methods to turn 2 million points into 8 million points of reservations. As I understand the process, a 2 million point Platinum owner can reserve a Bonnett Creek 1 bedroom for 180,000 points plus a few 3 and/or 4 bedroom Presidentials for 385,000 or 424,000 points, respectively. Within 60 days cancel the 1 bedroom and rebook it for 90,000 points, then cancel one of the Presidentials and upgrade to it, then rebook the 1 bedroom at half cost, cancel another Presidential and upgrade, then rebook the 1 bedroom at half cost, again, and keep repeating until the all the Presidentials are reserved at half the points cost for a 1 bedroom.

Do it right and with a bit of luck, that is how 2 million points becomes 8 million points of reservations. At $6/thousand, 2M points costs $12,000 maintenance fees and 8 million points is worth $48,000. Is this fair use of the system, or is this a scam? Pay $12,000 and walk out the door with $48,000 worth of 13-month reservations? Should Wyndham do something about this or not?

If someone can reserve a 4 bedroom Presidential at 13 months for full points and use it with their family or rent it, that is one thing. If, instead, they cancel-rebook it for 50% off, or manipulate the reservation system to reserve it at half the cost of a studio or 1 bedroom, that negatively impacts other owners, so it should not be allowed. That is just my thought, but that and all the money in my pocket will not get me a Starbucks coffee.

Wyndham’s opinion of the various cancel-rebook schemes is the only opinion that matters. They will investigate and decide to hand the Ferrari keys back to the owners or not. When something similar happened ten years ago, owner-to-owner points transfers were eliminated. Could this latest development mean the end of VIP points discounts? It is not out of the question. How else could they solve the problem, if they think it is a problem worth solving?

Megarenting happens, and it will continue to happen. I think Wyndham is obligated to respond when Owners reserve more than their Fairshare of reservations.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Hey, let's not give Wyndham any ideas. That is what this thread could possibly do. Wyndham is trying to scare people.

I have the original video CD of the benefits we were to have as platinum members. I kept it just in case. :rofl:

 

[comicbookman]

I doubt that they would cancel the VIP discount. It would wreck one of their biggest upsell programs. I do expect that they will at some point restrict the discount to only developer purchased points, which is how they describe it to buyers already. To do this , however, would require them to have reservation system that actually works.

 

[tschwa2]

I don't own wyndham points but my feeling is if they don't want it working that way, they could stop it. Hilton doesn't allow owners to book a reservation and then wait until open season to cancel a reservation and then book for last minute discounted cash rates. The system prevents any nights that had been booked in that account from booking for any discounted re-booking. You can call and rebook those nights at full point cost if they are still available when you call if you need to adjust the days if other days are available or if you want to shorten the trip without discounting any nights you just cancelled.

All Wyndham has to make it formal rule that you can't cancel and book for a discount and/or cancel and upgrade from the same account. This won't stop points managers or those with multiple VIP accounts from using multiple accounts to cancel and rebook but it will stop some of it. Without the formal rule that it isn't allowed and still allowing all those who haven't been targeted to continue the practice Wyndham really shouldn't be allowed to target certain owners/members.

 

[Sandy VDH]

The cancel and rebook doesn't provide more points in an account, however it does provide a greater value received for a reservation, because you got a larger unit as an upgrade from a discounted smaller unit.

As Ron pointed out that does NOT put more points into an account. It does allow one to receive more value with less points, NOT actually generate MORE points.

So if there are situations where someone has more than 4X the number of points used for actual reservations in a single year, that is an issue. Where do those points come from? At most you can have a current year, PLUS 3 years of Credit Pooled points which you did NOT use in any of the previous 3 years. That does not seem to be the situation as Ron described.

I don't consider myself a Mega Renter, but do rent frequently. I have just over 1M on paper, with 2 PIC weeks that I actually never deposit. So I have just under 1M points per year and get 30 GC on my VIP Platinum account.

Whatever I am doing I did not trigger a freeze in my account, but I'm not doing anything that is outside of the operating parameters of the Wyndham System.

Something is a bit rotten in the state of Denmark, to quote Hamlet. Now you have me wondering.......

 

[ronparise]

You misread my post. I did not call Ron or anyone else a scammer; I called cancel-rebook a scam. Some people refer to cancel-rebook as a trick or loophole. It is all synonymous.

There are many methods to turn 2 million points into 8 million points of reservations. As I understand the process, a 2 million point Platinum owner can reserve a Bonnett Creek 1 bedroom for 180,000 points plus a few 3 and/or 4 bedroom Presidentials for 385,000 or 424,000 points, respectively. Within 60 days cancel the 1 bedroom and rebook it for 90,000 points, then cancel one of the Presidentials and upgrade to it, then rebook the 1 bedroom at half cost, cancel another Presidential and upgrade, then rebook the 1 bedroom at half cost, again, and keep repeating until the all the Presidentials are reserved at half the points cost for a 1 bedroom.

Do it right and with a bit of luck, that is how 2 million points becomes 8 million points of reservations. At $6/thousand, 2M points costs $12,000 maintenance fees and 8 million points is worth $48,000. Is this fair use of the system, or is this a scam? Pay $12,000 and walk out the door with $48,000 worth of 13-month reservations? Should Wyndham do something about this or not?

If someone can reserve a 4 bedroom Presidential at 13 months for full points and use it with their family or rent it, that is one thing. If, instead, they cancel-rebook it for 50% off, or manipulate the reservation system to reserve it at half the cost of a studio or 1 bedroom, that negatively impacts other owners, so it should not be allowed. That is just my thought, but that and all the money in my pocket will not get me a Starbucks coffee.

Wyndham’s opinion of the various cancel-rebook schemes is the only opinion that matters. They will investigate and decide to hand the Ferrari keys back to the owners or not. When something similar happened ten years ago, owner-to-owner points transfers were eliminated. Could this latest development mean the end of VIP points discounts? It is not out of the question. How else could they solve the problem, if they think it is a problem worth solving?

Megarenting happens, and it will continue to happen. I think Wyndham is obligated to respond when Owners reserve more than their Fairshare of reservations.

What you describe does indeed happen but it doesn't manufacture points. (It manufactures reservations but not points) If you look at an account that has been used in this way you will see lots of reservations and the points that were used to make them. If it was a 300000 point reservation and a 100000 point reservation that were used to produce one 50000 point reservation what the auditor will see is 50000 points used and 350000 points available to use. The total of points used and points available will still equal the points owned

No doubt this is a gross abuse of the system but it's not what we are talking about here. What they are looking for today are accounts where they don't add up

 

[scootr5]

So if there are situations where someone has more than 4X the number of points used for actual reservations in a single year, that is an issue. Where do those points come from? At most you can have a current year, PLUS 3 years of Credit Pooled points which you did NOT use in any of the previous 3 years. That does not seem to be the situation as Ron described.

I believe Ron alluded to it a bit - You own a 2 million point contract, you buy 2,000,000 points, credit pool all future year points in the contract you just bought, and sell the contract with no points remaining in it for 3 years. You now own 2,000,000 points, but you have 8,000,000 points available to reserve.

It would definitely look odd at first glance when looking at account totals.