[ 2015 ] Westin Nanea on sale now

[triangulum33]

So, why is there a new Homeoption program instead of Nanea being in the regular SVN SO, instead of needing to transfer to SO if you want to stay somewhere else?

 

[lizap]

see post 173.

So, why is there a new Homeoption program instead of Nanea being in the regular SVN SO, instead of needing to transfer to SO if you want to stay somewhere else?

 

[DeniseM]

Selling Options, instead of deeded weeks, gives Starwood more flexability and control - it benefits them. I would expect to see all future resorts sold this way.

 

[SMHarman]

So, why is there a new Homeoption program instead of Nanea being in the regular SVN SO, instead of needing to transfer to SO if you want to stay somewhere else?

Selling Options, instead of deeded weeks, gives Starwood more flexability and control - it benefits them. I would expect to see all future resorts sold this way.

It benefits Starwood as they can run the room allocation algorithms just like a hotel. It also takes away the you must arrive on Saturday that puts people off timeshares. This also helps housekeeping a lot.

It also blends the cost of MF to make higher desirability weeks have higher MF

It benefits the buyer as they can book odd length durations at 12 month's.

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[LisaRex]

ValleyGirl (Katherine, right?), I'm happy for you. Congratulations!

P.S. I think it's ridiculous that you cannot fix a 5th or 6th floor villa.

 

[ValleyGirl]

ValleyGirl (Katherine, right?), I'm happy for you. Congratulations!

P.S. I think it's ridiculous that you cannot fix a 5th or 6th floor villa.

Its Vickie and John

I do too:annoyed:

But it is a way of them saying to float owners with any amount of Home Options; you can book at 12 months and there will be plenty of high floor rooms available.

 

[gregb]

Something to consider. The value of 5th and 6th floor will depend on what trees they plant/leave on the beach. Based on my experiences in Building 8 at WKORN, 5th & 6th floors look over the tops of the trees for a fairly clear view of the ocean. 3rd & 4th floors look through the trees. Not the best view for watching whales. I have not stayed on 1st or 2nd floor.

Greg

 

[gregb]

I think Home Options are a way of providing Home Resort Preference (8-12 months out) without having to actually deed units to owners. From what I have read, it seems they work pretty much the same as the Home Resort Preference of deeded resorts. Yes they allow any day check-in. But that is something Vistana could add to the other resorts any time they decide it is good for the system.

Today you can turn your unit into StartOptions during the Home Resort Preference. You just have to make a StarOptions reservation at a different resort and they will use them up. I believe Home Options work the same.

The one thing that is different with Home Options instead of deeds is that I wonder if Vistana could create a Flex system in Hawaii, and put Nanea into it, without the owners having a say. We know they cannot do that with our deeded properties. They have to entice us to "buy into" the Flex plan. But depending on how the Nanea Assn by-laws are written, they might be able to do that for Nanea.

Greg

 

[DeniseM]

Greg - no owners gave permission for the Florida/SDO/SBP Flex-option program and those are deeded resorts, so I see no reason why not.

I expect to see any new Hawaii resorts in a Hawaii Group. To be quite honest, I'm surprised Starwood isn't buying deeds at WKORV-N/S to put into a Hawaii group, and wonder if that will come later.

 

[lizap]

Greg, there have been recent reports from people who attended owners' meetings in Hawaii that Nanea will not be part of the FLEX system.

I think Home Options are a way of providing Home Resort Preference (8-12 months out) without having to actually deed units to owners. From what I have read, it seems they work pretty much the same as the Home Resort Preference of deeded resorts. Yes they allow any day check-in. But that is something Vistana could add to the other resorts any time they decide it is good for the system.

Today you can turn your unit into StartOptions during the Home Resort Preference. You just have to make a StarOptions reservation at a different resort and they will use them up. I believe Home Options work the same.

The one thing that is different with Home Options instead of deeds is that I wonder if Vistana could create a Flex system in Hawaii, and put Nanea into it, without the owners having a say. We know they cannot do that with our deeded properties. They have to entice us to "buy into" the Flex plan. But depending on how the Nanea Assn by-laws are written, they might be able to do that for Nanea.

Greg

 

[DeniseM]

I agree that it won't be part of the Florida group, but I will be really surprised if SW doesn't form a Hawaii group.

 

[Politico]

Attended an update this week. For what it's worth, was told that 1) there are no current plans for a Westin FLEX, 2) a Westin FLEX is unlikely, and 3) no current plans for a Hawaii FLEX, but it is possible and would most likely be a Maui FLEX (WPORV and Poipu not included) if it happened at all.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I heard the same thing - no HI Flex. Pretty definitive - from Sales. Why would there be a need for one? Already can use SOs from one to stay at another - otherwise use HOs to stay at own resort. What would be the purpose for a HI Flex? The Sheraton Flex has purpose. I do not see one for HI. Adds no value. IMO

 

[Politico]

Anybody knows how they will treat week 51 and 52? Are they event weeks that require Event Week Home Options? Will they be unavailable for Staroption reservations at 8 months, in they unlike event units are not reserved before 8 months?

From sales person: There are event weeks with home options for weeks 51 and 52. If owner doesn't want to use, they can be converted to regular home options and be used 8-12 months out at Nanea. Then, I assume they become regular staroptions at 8 months.

 

[Politico]

I heard the same thing - no HI Flex. Pretty definitive - from Sales. Why would there be a need for one? Already can use SOs from one to stay at another - otherwise use HOs to stay at own resort. What would be the purpose for a HI Flex? The Sheraton Flex has purpose. I do not see one for HI. Adds no value. IMO

I agree for now. Frankly, I think it would devalue Nanea sales. Why would I buy Nanea now, if someone could also buy into Hawaii Flex, and have the same opportunity to book 12 months out as me?

But, once Nanea is sold out, which I think will be fairly fast, I wouldn't completely discount the chance that Starwood would want to essentially try and sell WKORV N + S and WPORV twice by selling a Hawaii Flex. Not saying it will happen, but with so much change, it's not impossible.

 

[Helios]

So, probably Nanea weeks 51 and 52 will not be available to non event week owners, just like at the two existing resorts.


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[lizap]

ok, so I think we now have enough information to put this speculation to rest for a while. :zzz:

Attended an update this week. For what it's worth, was told that 1) there are no current plans for a Westin FLEX, 2) a Westin FLEX is unlikely, and 3) no current plans for a Hawaii FLEX, but it is possible and would most likely be a Maui FLEX (WPORV and Poipu not included) if it happened at all.

 

[SMHarman]

So, probably Nanea weeks 51 and 52 will not be available to non event week owners, just like at the two existing resorts.


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From the SO chart it looks a lot more like WLR ownership in 51 and 52.

You can buy a fix week or at 12 months have season preference and it is unlikely to trickle down to SO booking.

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[Helios]

Right, possible but unlikely...


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[NNerland]

I also believe - and forgive me if this has been covered -- but HOME OPTIONS allow Starwood and the Association to charge "More" for various seasons and uses when it comes to annual dues.

It has long been discussed that if you own a Winter 3bd in St John and a Fall 3 bd in St John you pay the same annual maintenance fee - irregardless of the fact that you get far fewer options/conversion points.

By moving away from Deed Ownership to Pool Points --- they are legally allowed to charge more by season and use. This also then allows them to charge more on the front end as well for "premium" seasons and force a justification of what you get in return on you.

This won't matter in Hawaii as they consider all 52 weeks the same - but it matters significantly in other resorts, such as Coral Vista in St John where they have a few different seasons. However, they have very large annual dues at the new resort and the "points" seem to be more vague on "profit margin" when compared to "deeded association". Like Denise said gives Starwood more control and ability to "pad the profit" in high demand areas. I am still surprised a 3 bedroom is almost 40% more in Hawaii than St John -- but know Hawaii is very expensive.

Again probably covered - but thought I would add my 2cents after reading the recent posts.

 

[gregb]

I realize the owners didn't give permission to the forming of Sheraton Flex. But what I meant was it is my understanding that deeded owners are only put into the flex plan if they "sell back" their deed to Vistana for Flex points. Deeded owners are able to remain deeded owners, if they wish.

My speculation is that if with Nanea Points, not a deed, Vistana would be able to create a Flex plan and automatically put everyone into it.

Greg

Greg - no owners gave permission for the Florida/SDO/SBP Flex-option program and those are deeded resorts, so I see no reason why not.

I expect to see any new Hawaii resorts in a Hawaii Group. To be quite honest, I'm surprised Starwood isn't buying deeds at WKORV-N/S to put into a Hawaii group, and wonder if that will come later.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I am not getting the speculation here...

WKORV, WKORVN and WPORV are pretty much sold (high %) - WKORVNN (Nanea) will sell - Even if they open Poipu - that will sell. What would be the purpose of a HI Flex? There are already HI Owners that exchange out via SVN, and use SO-SP conversion. Same will happen with Nanea. Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.

Nanea is deeded.

The Sheraton Flex had a purpose to bring in 'distressed VOIs' based upon an inequality between SOs/Seasons and MFs. A HI Flex serves no purpose for SVO (VSE) or Owners.

You will be able to reserve OF using SOs (via SVN at <8 months), but that will be dependent upon availability - and not ahead of Owners in location priorities.

ROFRs at WKORV and WKORVN are profitable for SVO - can rent for good $ and sell for good profit when they have a buyer. I see this as the reason for the increase of ROFRs.

The new model (CV and Nanea) is too make HOs and MFs proportional to one another with a premium purchase cost for location (OF/RV at Nanea) or seasons (like CV). This fixes a fault in the SVO system - also allowing for more flexibility in checkin days and length of stay. I see nothing but positive in these changes.

One thing I am amazed about people we meet while during our resort stays (conversations around the pools, etc) - is the diversity of vacation-types - each has their own type of usage, but most want a certain standard. That is a plus for SVO.

IMO

 

[lizap]

David, your post is one of the best I've read on this issue. It summarizes the issues very well and is in sync with what Starwood is doing. At this point, there is NO reason to believe anything any different.

I am not getting the speculation here...

WKORV, WKORVN and WPORV are pretty much sold (high %) - WKORVNN (Nanea) will sell - Even if they open Poipu - that will sell. What would be the purpose of a HI Flex? There are already HI Owners that exchange out via SVN, and use SO-SP conversion. Same will happen with Nanea. Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.

Nanea is deeded.

The Sheraton Flex had a purpose to bring in 'distressed VOIs' based upon an inequality between SOs/Seasons and MFs. A HI Flex serves no purpose for SVO (VSE) or Owners.

You will be able to reserve OF using SOs (via SVN at <8 months), but that will be dependent upon availability - and not ahead of Owners in location priorities.

ROFRs at WKORV and WKORVN are profitable for SVO - can rent for good $ and sell for good profit when they have a buyer. I see this as the reason for the increase of ROFRs.

The new model (CV and Nanea) is too make HOs and MFs proportional to one another with a premium purchase cost for location (OF/RV at Nanea) or seasons (like CV). This fixes a fault in the SVO system - also allowing for more flexibility in checkin days and length of stay. I see nothing but positive in these changes.

One thing I am amazed about people we meet while during our resort stays (conversations around the pools, etc) - is the diversity of vacation-types - each has their own type of usage, but most want a certain standard. That is a plus for SVO.

IMO

 

[czar]

Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.

It will definitely be interesting to see what resale prices are like as compared to WKORV - and whether they are (and how much) lower because it's voluntary.

 

[GregT]

I am not getting the speculation here...

WKORV, WKORVN and WPORV are pretty much sold (high %) - WKORVNN (Nanea) will sell - Even if they open Poipu - that will sell. What would be the purpose of a HI Flex? There are already HI Owners that exchange out via SVN, and use SO-SP conversion. Same will happen with Nanea. Just like WPORV - buy resale Nanea (when available in a few years...) to use it as a Home Resort.

Nanea is deeded.

The Sheraton Flex had a purpose to bring in 'distressed VOIs' based upon an inequality between SOs/Seasons and MFs. A HI Flex serves no purpose for SVO (VSE) or Owners.

You will be able to reserve OF using SOs (via SVN at <8 months), but that will be dependent upon availability - and not ahead of Owners in location priorities.

ROFRs at WKORV and WKORVN are profitable for SVO - can rent for good $ and sell for good profit when they have a buyer. I see this as the reason for the increase of ROFRs.

The new model (CV and Nanea) is too make HOs and MFs proportional to one another with a premium purchase cost for location (OF/RV at Nanea) or seasons (like CV). This fixes a fault in the SVO system - also allowing for more flexibility in checkin days and length of stay. I see nothing but positive in these changes.

One thing I am amazed about people we meet while during our resort stays (conversations around the pools, etc) - is the diversity of vacation-types - each has their own type of usage, but most want a certain standard. That is a plus for SVO.

IMO

I also think this is an excellent and succinct summary of the situation, and it makes sense to me.

One of the most important things about this is it links to the historical points requirements without inflating all view categories. 81K StarOptions can still secure a 1BR. 148K can still secure a 2BR. View category aside, this is an important benchmark and Nanea was the test case (for me) to see if Starwood would go the way of HGVC (and others) and premium price the new resort. HGVC tried this with Grand Waikikian and Kings Land and the introduced subsequent properties that at least link back to the original point structure (with premiums for view).

I now think WPoipu and WCabo will include 81K 1BR something's as well as higher for premium view.

Interesting and encouraging.

Best,

Greg