[2015] Marriott to acquire Starwood hotels

[SueDonJ]

If they make too many changes they will anger the SPG folks and loose a lot of business. If they combine programs and then charge higher point values for the Starwood Hotels as they do for Marriott they will also lose a lot of customers. This was not good news. Does anyone know if one can get elite gold status just by the amount charged for Marriott or does it require room stays?

In the Marriott Rewards program you earn status by annually accumulating "Elite Nights" - 10 for Silver, 50 for Gold, 75 for Platinum. EN's are earned at all of the Marriott-family brands one-for-one through cash stays and timeshare stays (owners and II exchangers) and, recently-implemented, through redemption award stays. EN's are also earned through use of the Chase Marriott VISA at a ratio of 1EN for every $3,000 spend. EN's over and above the current-year's requirements roll over to the next year.

Marriott Rewards Points are earned through spends at Marriott hotels/resorts and the VISA card, with multiples as bonuses for specific spends. MRP can be redeemed for stays based on property tiers, for airline miles, for Travel Packages that economize hotel and air, for various products in a catalog which of course isn't the most economical use of points but it's an option.

Lifetime status requirements:
Silver - 250 Total EN plus 1.2 million MRP
Gold - 500 Total EN plus 1.6 million MRP
Platinum - 750 Total EN plus 2 million MRP

There are a few one-off properties that don't participate in the Marriott Rewards Program, either through Nights or Points or both.

This is the most basic info. Of course it's much too soon to start speculating on what will happen to SPG but you asked, and it might help to be able to refer back to this. I'm sure whatever I've missed, somebody else will be happy to fill in.

 

[dsmrp]

Another redemption tier

I'm speculating that if Marriott gets around to consolidating the two loyalty programs, they'll make another level or two(?) charging more redemption points, and put the highest end Starwood hotels in with the highest end Marriotts. It'll cost more for both Marriott and Starwood members

 

[Helios]

This has totally caught me off guard.

Last year, it was US Airways merger that sucked hard......Now Starwood being bought by Marriott really can't be a good thing for me.

Now what to do with my 200,000 starpoints?

I agree. I really disliked the Continental merged with United. :annoyed:

I wish MVC had bought Vistana. Now I hope ILG buys Marriott and merges Hyatt, Vistana, and Marriott into one timeshare system. That would be the best case scenario...IMHO...

 

[RALnGA]

Atlantis and Marriott last year merged

Wasn't it last year that Marriott bought part of the Atlantis?
So now it seems Harborside will be part of this deal....maybe that is why you can't reserve Harborside after May of next year...
I read SPG and SVN will be around for a little while ,maybe a year then they will disappear...

RAL

 

[cubigbird]

This is why the advice of "buy where you want to go" should always be the most material and prevail in buying a TS. With all of these changes about to occur, I still have my fixed weeks at the resorts I want to go to. The rest of the fluff can go away at any time, and I'm sure most of it will, or change as we know it. I love the SVN and SPG benefits, but remember these are all publicly traded companies. Their objective is maximizing value for their shareholders, not for their customers. Changes will be made with profit first, customer second.

 

[komosatp]

Wasn't it last year that Marriott bought part of the Atlantis?

Marriott was only peripherally involved in the Atlantis recapitalization*. The total recap was for around $2 billion. A consortium of bank lenders provided $1.75 billion. Brookfield, the hedge fund/private equity company that now owns Atlantis put in $175 million of their own money. Marriott provided $100 million. So Marriott provided around 1/20th (~5%) of the recap funding, and in the form of a loan, not an equity investment. I don't think that loan gives Marriott much of a role in the day-to-day at Atlantis. It was more of a good faith gesture to inaugurate Atlantis becoming part of the Autograph Collection.

The bottom line is the Marriott loan was probably a value-add play for Marriott to add a signature property to use in its hotel loyalty system. And to have an inside track if/when Brookfield decides to sell Atlantis. Brookfield likes it because they have a seasoned hotel managment company ready to step-in should the newly formed Atlantis management company not measure up.

*And Atlantis wasn't exactly 'purchased'. Sol Kerzner, the former owner and original builder of Atlantis, defaulted on loans he took out to expand Atlantis and take the his company private. The loans couldn't be refinanced (Atlantis was able to make the debt payments, but was unable to refinance when the balloon payment on his original loans came due) and Brookield owned the piece of the original deal that allowed them to become the new owner of the property, should it go onto default.

I'm not writing this all to nitpick little details, but to highlight the fact that Marriott isn't really all that involved at Atlantis. I get the fun speculation, but there will be lots of bidders should Atlantis go up for sale.

So now it seems Harborside will be part of this deal....maybe that is why you can't reserve Harborside after May of next year...

Where did you see that HRA was part of this deal? AFAIK HRA is part of the SVN, and SVN is still being sold to Interval.

And I'm also not sure what could be 'sold' at HRA, since HRA is sold-out and is owned by by the people who own timeshares there. It doesn't have a license to operate as a Starwood branded resort, and its access to Atlantis' amenities are based on and access deed between HRA and Atlanis, with SVN and Interval (and Marriott for that matter) not having anything to do with that access deed.

 

[SuzyQ]

http://time.com/money/4114661/marriott-starwood-merger-rewards-points/

 

[ekinggill]

I recently flipped 60K SPG points for 90k AAdvantage miles. Feeling like that was a well timed move.

Don't know if the special is still available

This has totally caught me off guard.

Last year, it was US Airways merger that sucked hard......Now Starwood being bought by Marriott really can't be a good thing for me.

Now what to do with my 200,000 starpoints?

 

[Sicnarf]

I may be optimistic but my prediction is that SPG will just become MR, and SPs will just become MRPs. And yes, we may have to use more MRPs for some upscale Starwood properties BUT the upside is tons more choices of locations and properties!

Having spend a ton of $ with *wood to become lifetime platinum SPG member, I'm hopeful that it will carry over to MR. Note that Marriott is guaranteed to collect from me the equivalent of 75 night stays of MF yearly.

 

[SMHarman]

I may be optimistic but my prediction is that SPG will just become MR, and SPs will just become MRPs. And yes, we may have to use more MRPs for some upscale Starwood properties BUT the upside is tons more choices of locations and properties!

Having spend a ton of $ with *wood to become lifetime platinum SPG member, I'm hopeful that it will carry over to MR. Note that Marriott is guaranteed to collect from me the equivalent of 75 night stays of MF yearly.

Marriott won't be collecting the MF. That's going to VVE / II

 

[JudyS]

I also am very disappointed with the news. There had been rumors that Hyatt (Hotels) would buy Starwood (Hotels), and I would have greatly preferred that. I am sitting on about 150,000 Starpoints and I'm sure a big devaluation is coming. The only question is how soon.

I have several major surgeries upcoming in 2016. Plus, my husband just lost his job, so we have no idea what our financial situation or his schedule will be like. This means burning my Starpoints soon on a big trip is not an option.

Yeah, I know I can transfer Starpoints to airlines, Amtrak, etc., but I was really hoping to use them for hotels in Europe. Bummer!

I may be optimistic but my prediction is that SPG will just become MR, and SPs will just become MRPs....

Yeah, but if Marriott gives us one Marriott Reward Point for one Starpoint, that would be an enormous devaluation. Even a couple of Marriott Reward Points per Starpoint might be a devaluation. It's easy to get 2 cents of value per Starpoint, and getting 3 cents (or more) per Starpoint is doable if your travel plans have some flexibility. What's a Marriott Reward Point worth?

 

[JudyS]

... I actually wouldn't mind Marriott managing HRC. I'd like to see some Marriott management expertise there since it never has risen to Starwood quality anyway.

HRC -- is that the same as HRA? (Harborside at the Atlantis.)

I just bought my first Starwood timeshare in 2014. I had a trade into the Harborside in 2015, but instead ended up in the ICU. (No, "ICU" is not an abbreviation for a timeshare! )

I really hope HRA stays affiliated with Starwood timeshares for a while, so I get a chance to use my Starwood preference in II to trade in there.

Now, if ILG (Interval) bought the Marriott timeshare division, that would be great! Unfortunately, I doubt ILG can swing that financially. They bought Hyatt and Starwood timeshares, but the Marriott timeshare division is a much larger company.

 

[JudyS]

Seems like I'm not the only one worried about my Starpoints. There's actually an article about this in Time magazine:

http://time.com/money/4114661/marriott-starwood-merger-rewards-points/
What Marriott’s Purchase of Starwood Means for Your Hotel Reward Points:
Travelers are expecting the worst.

Some key quotes:
"Most of the commenters at the frequent flier forum FlyerTalk believe that the Marriott-Starwood merger is particularly bad for travelers with lots of SPG points, and they expect that the move will kick off a new era of mergers in the hotel world....
...Still, while the most likely outcome for travelers is a devaluation of reward points and perhaps the disappearance of some hotel brands and their reward programs entirely, travel experts say that there’s no need to use up your reward points in a hurry....'No need to panic or hurry to burn your points,' Boarding Area advised...."

 

[Sicnarf]

I also am very disappointed with the news. There had been rumors that Hyatt (Hotels) would buy Starwood (Hotels), and I would have greatly preferred that. I am sitting on about 150,000 Starpoints and I'm sure a big devaluation is coming. The only question is how soon.

I have several major surgeries upcoming in 2016. Plus, my husband just lost his job, so we have no idea what our financial situation or his schedule will be like. This means burning my Starpoints soon on a big trip is not an option.

Yeah, I know I can transfer Starpoints to airlines, Amtrak, etc., but I was really hoping to use them for hotels in Europe. Bummer!

Yeah, but if Marriott gives us one Marriott Reward Point for one Starpoint, that would be an enormous devaluation. Even a couple of Marriott Reward Points per Starpoint might be a devaluation. It's easy to get 2 cents of value per Starpoint, and getting 3 cents (or more) per Starpoint is doable if your travel plans have some flexibility. What's a Marriott Reward Point worth?

Marriott gives 10 MRPs per $ spent while *wood only gives 2 SPs. So I would hope the conversion rate should be 1SP=5MRP.

 

[YYJMSP]

I wonder how this will affect starpoint conversions from timeshare weeks and other SPG participation via SVN. Lifetime SPG platinum for 5 star elite members? Enrollment in gold program for all members?

I'm of the opinion that the ILG purchase of SVO would keep the concept of SVN alive, since ILG would have all of the properties necessary to keep some sort of trading between them going; however, I think the SPG conversions would have been at risk, since they'd probably have to "buy" the points from SPG, and why would they do that.

Now with the Marriott purchase of Starwood, I think we can basically kiss the SPG conversions good-bye. This will definitely hurt, as we do use the conversions about half of the time...

I'm predicting we'll see an announcement in 2016 that this feature is gone as a result of changes to SVN, the Elite program, and the demise of SPG.

I wonder how they'll deal with outstanding SPG points incentive agreements (i.e. certificates to buy points for a few years after a developer purchase, the points associated with Explorer packages, etc) if there is no longer any such thing as SPG points...

 

[YYJMSP]

Lifetime status requirements:
Silver - 250 Total EN plus 1.2 million MRP
Gold - 500 Total EN plus 1.6 million MRP
Platinum - 750 Total EN plus 2 million MRP

I'm hoping that they'll convert lifetime SPG points to MRP at ~1:3, to ~1:4 so the requirements will be 250nts/~400K for Silver, 500nts/~500K for Gold, and 750nts/~600K for Platinum, when they absorb the existing SPG membership, assuming SPG Platinum corresponds to MR Gold, and MR Platinum has some benefits above what we got as SPG Platinum (I'm not familiar with the MR program features...)

That and I'm hoping SPG actually has records to compute lifetime points accumulated.

 

[GrayFal]

Marriott gives 10 MRPs per $ spent while *wood only gives 2 SPs. So I would hope the conversion rate should be 1SP=5MRP.

15 MRPs per $1 using Marriott VISA

 

[Lansdowne]

Thank you for the info.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Is there a chart out there with the different Marriott ViSA cards and what they offer? I might have to upgrade.

I'm still sad. We stayed in Portland, Oregon at the Nines. We stayed for 5 nights on concierge level for 80,000 points. If I were to stay at a Marriott hotel on the Waterfront in Portland I would have to 140,000 points. So, this is where the points devalue for me. You can never use rewards points to stay concierge level with Marriott. I've only been able to upgrade by paying cash. If I want to stay at the 80,000 point level in Portland I would have to stay at a Fairfield Inn.

Another example is that we frequent Disneyland a lot. So, if I stay on Marriott Points I can pay anywhere from 100,000 to 140,000 points for a 5 night stay. With Starwood I would pay 32,000 - 55,000 points for a 5 night stay.

I won't speculate now but with Marriott the owner I doubt they are going to lower their point structure when all they have been doing is raising them or moving hotels from category to category.

 

[n2fc]

Marriott Gold

If they make too many changes they will anger the SPG folks and loose a lot of business. If they combine programs and then charge higher point values for the Starwood Hotels as they do for Marriott they will also lose a lot of customers. This was not good news. Does anyone know if one can get elite gold status just by the amount charged for Marriott or does it require room stays?

Marriott "gold" requires 50 nights per year, "platinum" is 75...
("silver" requires only 10)

The Chase Marriott (premier) charge card confers "silver" elite status automatically (15 nights), and 1 extra elite credit per $3000 charged to the card...

 

[LisaRex]

For the hotel side, I'm assuming that they will fold SPG into the MR program by retrofitting the current portfolio into MR categories (e.g. an SPG7 will be a MR 9) and that they will covert it 1:1.

Why? Because the number of hotel points required are very similar:

Marriott Program:
Category # MR points need (Saver rate)
1 7,500 (6,000)
2 10,000 (7,500)
3 15,000 (10,000)
4 20,000 (15,000)
5 25,000 (20,000)
6 30,000 (25,000)
7 35,000 (30,000)
8 40,000 (35,000)
9 45,000 (40,000)

Starwood Program:Category Starpoints
1 3,000
2 4,000
3 7,000
4 10,000
5 12,000-16,000
6 20,000-25,000
7 30,000-35,000

I can't imagine that with this data, they'd ever give Starwood members double or even quintuple their SPs.

 

[SueDonJ]

Is there a chart out there with the different Marriott ViSA cards and what they offer? I might have to upgrade. ...

Marriott Rewards Credit Card from Chase (JPMorgan Chase and Co. link)

"Marriott Rewards Credit Cards are available to US residents that have a valid permanent home address within the 50 United States or the District of Columbia only." I believe there are other options for Canada and Europe; hopefully those owners will chime in here.

 

[Henry M.]

Why? Because the number of hotel points required are very similar:

[u]Marriott Program:                                  Starwood Program:[/u]
Category # MR points need (Saver rate)            Starpoints needed 
1                  7,500 ( 6,000)                    3,000
2                 10,000 ( 7,500)                    4,000
3                 15,000 (10,000)                    7,000
4                 20,000 (15,000)                   10,000
5                 25,000 (20,000)                   12,000-16,000
6                 30,000 (25,000)                   20,000-25,000
7                 35,000 (30,000)                   30,000-35,000
8                 40,000 (35,000)
9                 45,000 (40,000)

I'm not sure how you conclude that MR point requirements are similar to Starpoint requirements. Except at the very highest category, the Marriott properties require about twice the points as the Starwood properties for a given category, not counting the 5th night free that you get at most Starwood properties.

I recently spent a night at Courtyard by Marriott on Maui, and it cost me almost twice what a room at the Sheraton or Westin in Ka'anapali would have cost. For sure there is no comparison in those properties, so I'm not sure that even the categories are equivalent. Marriott categories seem to represent properties a step or two below the Starwood properties for a given category number, further exacerbating the difference in the value of each programs reward points.

 

[ragdoll]

Starwood Affiliation vs Marriott Affiliation

I'm wondering if some of the Starwood-branded hotels will rethink their association with Starwood/Marriott and may decide to affiliate with another management company. We may lose some hotel choices in the long run particularly at the higher end.

 

[vistana101]

I'm of the opinion that the ILG purchase of SVO would keep the concept of SVN alive, since ILG would have all of the properties necessary to keep some sort of trading between them going; however, I think the SPG conversions would have been at risk, since they'd probably have to "buy" the points from SPG, and why would they do that.

Now with the Marriott purchase of Starwood, I think we can basically kiss the SPG conversions good-bye. This will definitely hurt, as we do use the conversions about half of the time...

I would definitely not be happy about the loss of SPG privileges and conversion options. I took a look at some of the info on the SVN site about the Interval acquisition and I saw this:

WILL CURRENT AND FUTURE STARWOOD VACATION NETWORK (SVN) MEMBERS STILL HAVE ACCESS TO STARWOOD HOTELS? WILL I STILL BE ABLE TO CONVERT MY STAROPTIONS TO STARPOINTS AND ACCESS STARWOOD HOTELS WORLDWIDE?

Yes, all current and future Owners will continue to enjoy Gold-level access to the Starwood Preferred Guest® program as they have in the past. The terms and conditions governing access to Starwood hotels through SVN and the SPG program are reviewed and updated from time to time. Any changes that may take place in the ordinary course of business would not be attributable to the transaction.

I wonder if Marriott will honor this and give SVN members access to their gold level ideally, or at least their silver level. Also will be interesting to see if the conversion options are kept at all, (even before Marriott announcement, this seemed a bit unclear based on Starwood's wording above), and if so how/if the conversions are affected numerically.