[2013] Unit Placement Discussion [orig "Homeless In Paradise ..."]

[klpca]

Thanks. I had totally forgotten about ROFR. Not too much of that going on at my home resort (DSVII).

 

[SueDonJ]

Isn't there the possibility the reservation will be mixed with days from the Trust and days from the Exchange bucket?

From the conversation I had with the OP rooms control person I got the distinct impression priority placement isn't so fine tuned as to dissect between how many days are from Trust and from the Exchange pool. It's owner's first, exchangers after that. That's where owner occupancy comes into play. There's so little availability for exchangers during the crunch time at properties with high owner occupancy. Then you add in check in dates. The availability for an exchanger on a particular day is very limited. Dissecting the few exchangers isn't as big an issue as dissecting the owners.

As owners sell and the Trust takes control there will be more competition between Trust and points users and less competition with home owners.

About what's bolded - from a few other threads dealing with DC inventory management we're finding that the majority of DC reservations are being made through the DC Exchange Company especially after the 12-mos Reservation Window opens. Because of that the majority of DC reservation confirmations are more likely to indicate "MVC EXCHANGE" on them even when a DC Trust Member uses only Trust Points to reserve an interval, which is probably why the resort personnel can't fine-tune their inventory according to the source of any intervals.

Absent that ability, what other mechanism could they use to try to incorporate DC Points users into any Priority Placement system? That's why I think dioxide's suggestion is the simplest to implement. As shared by a few of us earlier in the thread, DC reservation confirmations already notate DC ownership and status tiers so what's available now could allow for an immediate change in whatever systems exist now. If Marriott could tweak that IT field to confirm whether a DC Points owner is either a Trust or Exchange Member, or a hybrid, the notation could allow for even more fine-tuning.

I still think the problems are that there isn't a placement system being consistently implemented at all the resorts network-wide, and, various Marriott reps/execs say that a DC Points user IS or ISN'T an owner depending on the situation. That's why FT started this thread after using the DC for three years - because his dealings with various Marriott personnel, as well as his usage pattern, haven't been consistent at all.

IMO Marriott's first step should be to rewrite the placement hierarchy that was quoted earlier in this thread, clearly delineating the placemark(s) for DC Points users (whatever they determine those to be.) The second should be making sure that ALL owners/members and resort personnel are given a written notice of the newly-written policy and how the resorts will be expected to consistently implement it.

There shouldn't be any more instances of DC Members being told flat-out by Marriott reps that they are not Marriott Owners - that's just wrong and a terrible way to treat your customers. Even if the inference should be that, "a DC Points Member sits below a Weeks Owner in the hierarchy," Marriott should direct their resort personnel to say that rather than the insulting way it was said to FT.

 

[windje2000]

Isn't there the possibility the reservation will be mixed with days from the Trust and days from the Exchange bucket?

I think that is a more than a possibility but rather a certainty, and some reasonable rules can accommodate those situations.

For example, if the stay is more trust days than legacy days, you get owner status . . . and vice versa.

If you have tacked on a few days to a legacy week with bonus or legacy points, you may have to move, or accept a lesser unit for the entire stay.

Heck, I've had to move during a two weeks II exchange.

But in the end I think FT original post illustrates a real problem that VAC will need to address with equity to both groups of owners.

Keep in mind that one can never lose one's deeded week at one's home resort.

If the VAC exchange policies become truly egregious, outside exchange venues will no doubt arise.

 

[dioxide45]

Am I right that Harbour Lakes is mostly Trust like Oceana Palms and Crystal Shores? At those Trust properties it makes perfect sense that Trust owners will have very little competition for rooms with the "home court" owners. Therefore, they are closer to the top priority pecking order than at the "old" properties.

Harbour Lake is definitely not a trust property. Only 2.71% of the weeks at the resort are conveyed to the trust. The big trust resorts like Newport Coast and Ko'Olina are 15% and 11.7% respectively.

Check out post #193 of the Recorded Trust Documents thread for all the details on where resorts rank in the trust.

 

[Quilter]

Harbour Lake is definitely not a trust property. Only 2.71% of the weeks at the resort are conveyed to the trust. The big trust resorts like Newport Coast and Ko'Olina are 15% and 11.7% respectively.

Check out post #193 of the Recorded Trust Documents thread for all the details on where resorts rank in the trust.

Thank you. It's embarrassing to admit this but it would be even more helpful if I fully grasped what I was looking at. Would you be a dear and give me a Chart 101 lesson?

So what happened to Crystal Shores and Oceana Palms? I thought they were big in the Trust.

Thanks,
Quilter

 

[dioxide45]

Thank you. It's embarrassing to admit this but it would be even more helpful if I fully grasped what I was looking at. Would you be a dear and give me a Chart 101 lesson?

So what happened to Crystal Shores and Oceana Palms? I thought they were big in the Trust.

Thanks,
Quilter

Sorry, I think I perhaps directed you to the wrong chart. The chart I should have pointed you to was the one in post #217. Thus I also provided some bad information. This chart shows the percentage of weeks at each resort that are actually conveyed to the trust. I hope it is easier to understand.

Harbour Lake has a percentage of weeks in the trust at 11.138%. So there is a higher percentage of trust ownership than I initially reported. It is 12th on the list though you will also see that many resorts have trust ownership well over 20%.

Oceana Palms is almost 65%. That means that the trust owns 65% of all weeks at Oceana Palms. I think I have read that the GM there has said that weeks owners will get preferential treatment and get unit placement in the Sunrise Tower. However, what if a trust points owner is staying at Oceana Palms? Should they not be placed on the same level as a weeks owner in the placement priority. One could say that most of the weeks that were conveyed to the trust are actually in the Sunset Tower, but remember that Oceana Palms is a floating week floating unit resort, so all owners bought in to the same system, including the weeks in the trust.

 

[dioxide45]

This is a good idea, IF the occupancy is reserved from the Trust and NOT from the exchange co.

All occupancy is either owned, exchanged, or rented.

That's pretty easy to see when you own a week and
1. use it,
2. exchange it or
3. rent it.

If you own points and the occupancy you reserve is obtained from the Trust, it is an owner stay. You should be treated no different than a legacy owner especially for a points stay of seven nights equivalent to a traditional week. Short points stays are a tougher call, because broken weeks may make it more difficult for legacy owners to reserve their week in season. Short stays probably are a royal PITA for the villa assignment folks.

If you own points and the occupancy you reserve couldn't be filled from the trust it came from the exchange co. You are therefore an exchanger.

Are you different from a Marriott owner who has an II exchange? Yes - you had a view choice and guarantee. You paid for that. You should get what you paid for.

That aside, I don't see why two otherwise equivalent Marriott owners, one of whom is a points exchanger while the other is an II exchanger, should be prioritized differently. II exchangers can be enrolled in DC and just using the asset they signed up for - their week or an otherwise equivalent week from that other Marriott endorsed exchange company - II.

Positing II exchangers as 'second class' exchangers, ranking after DC exchangers, is that fair? Because I purchased occupancy in weeks and have no current interest the flexibility (and associated cost read skim) of points stays?

Moreover, I think if the points exchanger is a short stay week breaker, the preference should go to the full week II week stay.

But that's my opinion. Nothing more.

I agree, even though I tossed that suggestion out there. I didn't necessarily mean it mean it to be across the board. It should apply to trust based reservations only. An exchange is still an exchange in my book and I did put that out there early on. If a point is not a point, then a week booked through the MVC Exchange Company is not an owner stay and shouldn't be treated as such. It is still an exchange, just a different exchange company handling the transaction.

Using Ocean Piontes priority placement policy as an example.

• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners occupying their ownership weeks ("in season") <<<--- Trust Pionte owners using trust inventory should probably here.
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners occupying their ownership week ("in season") <<<--- or here.

• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners exchanging through Interval International <<<--- This is where an Ocean Pointe owner using their DC points to reserve in to Ocean Pionte should be.
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners exchanging through Interval International <<<--- or here.

• Multiple-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International <<<--- This is where DC Point Reservations through the MVC Exchange Company should be prioritized.
• Single-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International <<<--- and here.

• Guests visiting Ocean Pointe on a Sales Preview Package
• Ocean Pointe Owners that are renting a guest room or villa
• Marriott Reward Members that are visiting Ocean Pointe on Marriott Reward point redemption
• Guests that are renting a guest room or villa
• Owners of resorts outside Marriott Vacation Club International exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International

Really, all that Ocean Pointe has to do to clarify their policy from an exchange standpoint is update the policy with a few minor modifications. It would also bring it up with the times. There are new ways to exchange other than II. Ocean Pointe's policy is still living in the past. With DC now three years old, it is overdue for an update.

• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners occupying their ownership weeks ("in season")
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners occupying their ownership week ("in season")
• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners exchanging through Interval International or the Destinations Club program.
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners exchanging through Interval International or the Destinations Club program.
• Multiple-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International
• Single-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International
• Guests visiting Ocean Pointe on a Sales Preview Package
• Ocean Pointe Owners that are renting a guest room or villa
• Marriott Reward Members that are visiting Ocean Pointe on Marriott Reward point redemption
• Guests that are renting a guest room or villa
• Owners of resorts outside Marriott Vacation Club International exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International

 

[Quilter]

Sorry, I think I perhaps directed you to the wrong chart. The chart I should have pointed you to was the one in post #217. Thus I also provided some bad information. This chart shows the percentage of weeks at each resort that are actually conveyed to the trust. I hope it is easier to understand.

Harbour Lake has a percentage of weeks in the trust at 11.138%. So there is a higher percentage of trust ownership than I initially reported. It is 12th on the list though you will also see that many resorts have trust ownership well over 20%.

Oceana Palms is almost 65%. That means that the trust owns 65% of all weeks at Oceana Palms. I think I have read that the GM there has said that weeks owners will get preferential treatment and get unit placement in the Sunrise Tower. However, what if a trust points owner is staying at Oceana Palms? Should they not be placed on the same level as a weeks owner in the placement priority. One could say that most of the weeks that were conveyed to the trust are actually in the Sunset Tower, but remember that Oceana Palms is a floating week floating unit resort, so all owners bought in to the same system, including the weeks in the trust.

Thank you. That is much easier to understand.

We've stayed at Oceana Palms twice. Once on an II exchange before the DC. Lovely large balcony room on the north side of the building, 18th floor. Then again this past March. I used DC points. Wanted a certain view so I used enough points for ocean front. We were put in the NE corner unit (my preferred location) on the 11th floor. The front desk told me it was the break for high floor designation so I just made the cut. We had a beautiful view.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

We just got back from Custom House. I booked through DC. We were placed on the 18th floor in room 1801 facing the Marketplace. Great room for us.

 

[Carlsbadguy]

Room Location Hierarchy

I went to an Owners meeting at Kauai Beach Club and asked about room assignments and was told room locations are assigned in the following way. I do not know if this holds for all properties.

1. Legacy multiple week owners staying more than 1 week.
2. Legacy week owners staying 1 week.
3. Legacy week owners who are also using destination points. They will try and keep you in the same villa your entire stay.
4. Destination Point Owners.
5. Marriott II exchangers
6. Other exchangers

I don't remember where in the hierarchy they are, but owners who lockoff their unit to stay 2 weeks are lower in priority.

Also I found out from my room location as a Marriott II exchanger at KoOlina not to come late as they tend to give away the better rooms earlier at check in. I had a first floor room facing a wall, without cell phone service, and then was able to change the next day. We did not arrive until 10:00pm.

 

[yobo500]

Reservation Priority

Hello All:

Does anyone know the priority for Reservations. I know Owners come first, but who is next in line? Exchangers, DC Points, Marriott Reservations,etc

The reason I ask is that we are at Frenchman's Cove and I had requested St. John building, but was told that all owners were occupying 3 bedrooms units. I was given Custom House which has to have the worst view of any 3 bedroom unit I have seen. All Marriott resorts that I have ever stayed at always give the best views to 3 bedroom units due to cost of the unit to the owner to begin with.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Carlsbadguy]

When I was at Kauai Beach Club I was told the reservation order was:
1)Legacy week owners staying multiple weeks
2)Legacy week owners staying 1 week
3) Legacy week owners combining destination points with their reservation
4) Destination point owners
5) Marriott-Marriott exchangers
6) II exchangers
7) Renters
8)Preview packages

This could be for this property only.

 

[Fasttr]

When I was at Kauai Beach Club I was told the reservation order was:
1)Legacy week owners staying multiple weeks
2)Legacy week owners staying 1 week
3) Legacy week owners combining destination points with their reservation
4) Destination point owners
5) Marriott-Marriott exchangers
6) II exchangers
7) Renters
8)Preview packages

This could be for this property only.

What if you are staying on a MOD discount. Are you a #7 Renter....or a # 5.5 because of the Marriott Relationship?

 

[gblotter]

DC Points - Bottom of the Barrel

Last night we checked into Timber Lodge for a 5-night stay using legacy points to make the reservation. We were assigned the absolute worst unit they have in the entire resort - without question.

Low floor, handicap unit, facing the public transit bus parking area, long hike to the pool. DW is pretty steamed.

In speaking with the General Manager, we were enlightened about several things.

When making unit assignments, DC Points reservations are considered the same as outside trades.
There is no priority given for owning multiple weeks.
There is no priority for being Premier or Premier Plus.
There is no priority for being MRP Platinum.
And this is the kicker ... a non-Marriott trade for 7 days will get a better unit assignment than a DC Points reservation for 5 days.

In addition, Timber Lodge seems to throw all designated room assignments out the window on check-in day if you arrive after the 4pm check-in time. The GM actually said it was our fault because we didn't arrive until 7pm!

All that "flexibility" for DC points reservations starts to look a lot less appealing when you learn how it works behind the scenes. DC points reservations for less than 7 days seem to be "bottom of the barrel" for unit assignments.

We are attending a sales presentation later in the week (in exchange for 15K MRPs). I intend to bring this up with the salesman highlighting a big dis-incentive to buy DC points (not that it will make any difference to them).

After multiple visits to the front desk and some unpleasant conversations with the GM, they are moving us to a better room this morning. Not a great way to start our summer vacation.

 

[SueDonJ]

Hello All:

Does anyone know the priority for Reservations. I know Owners come first, but who is next in line? Exchangers, DC Points, Marriott Reservations,etc

The reason I ask is that we are at Frenchman's Cove and I had requested St. John building, but was told that all owners were occupying 3 bedrooms units. I was given Custom House which has to have the worst view of any 3 bedroom unit I have seen. All Marriott resorts that I have ever stayed at always give the best views to 3 bedroom units due to cost of the unit to the owner to begin with.

Thanks for your reply.

Yobo, Marriott doesn't have a policy that's consistently implemented across all resorts. I've moved your post to this thread because it's become a catch-all for all items related to unit placement.

You may also want to check out these threads in which MFC is specifically mentioned:
Need to Vent - Frenchman's Cove
Worst unit placement/location since we've owned with Marriott

 

[SueDonJ]

Last night we checked into Timber Lodge for a 5-night stay using legacy points to make the reservation. We were assigned the absolute worst unit they have in the entire resort - without question.

Low floor, handicap unit, facing the public transit bus parking area, long hike to the pool. DW is pretty steamed.

In speaking with the General Manager, we were enlightened about several things.

When making unit assignments, DC Points reservations are considered the same as outside trades.
There is no priority given for owning multiple weeks.
There is no priority for being Premier or Premier Plus.
There is no priority for being MRP Platinum.
And this is the kicker ... a non-Marriott trade for 7 days will get a better unit assignment than a DC Points reservation for 5 days.

In addition, Timber Lodge seems to throw all designated room assignments out the window on check-in day if you arrive after the 4pm check-in time. The GM actually said it was our fault because we didn't arrive until 7pm!

All that "flexibility" for DC points reservations starts to look a lot less appealing when you learn how it works behind the scenes. DC points reservations for less than 7 days seem to be "bottom of the barrel" for unit assignments.

We are attending a sales presentation later in the week (in exchange for 15K MRPs). I intend to bring this up with the salesman highlighting a big dis-incentive to buy DC points (not that it will make any difference to them).

After multiple visits to the front desk and some unpleasant conversations with the GM, they are moving us to a better room this morning. Not a great way to start our summer vacation.

Wow. Just wow. If I were you I'd write to the Customer Advocacy office and tell them everything you've written here, in as much detail. I don't blame your wife for being steamed!

Marriott Vacation Club Corporate Office
Customer Advocacy
800 936 6824
customer.advocacy@vacationclub.com
Hours: 8:30 AM - 5:30 PM EST (Monday - Friday)

 

[bazzap]

It sounds like the GM here may have some serious personal issues he needs to address!
I have come across many GMs who are very proactive and helpful, some who are sadly ineffective, but none who seem quite like this one.
And if the prioritisation (or lack of) really is like he says, that would be very worrying indeed.

 

[Steve A]

Is it possible that the priorities, or the lack of them, are established by the HOA?

 

[bazzap]

I guess some HOAs may move in weird and wonderful ways, but I struggle to grasp why they would want to prioritise non Marriott traders over Marriott owners in any scenario?

 

[davidvel]

Is it possible that the priorities, or the lack of them, are established by the HOA?

Wholly agree. In CA at least, these priorities are a violation of law which requires all members to be treated equally by the HOA (subject to deeded views, etc.), IMHLO.

 

[DB-Wis]

Yes, that sounds pretty awful, Gblotter, and I agree it's an awful way to start a vacation. I'm glad to hear you're getting moved.

In recent years, I've tried not to be too hung up on getting my preferred location. It just adds anxiety and I've found that I can enjoy my stays and have a great time even without my top room choice. But sometimes they try to put you in a room at a location that is simply not acceptable for an owner (including the owner of DC points) and you just have to say "no, I want a different unit, tomorrow if not today."

I'm glad things worked out.

 

[SueDonJ]

Is it possible that the priorities, or the lack of them, are established by the HOA?

Could be but there are many examples of Marriott asserting dominance over the HOA's and applying blanket policies to every resort, supposedly by virtue of the rights they hold as written into the Management Agreements with each resort. If Marriott wanted the resort personnel to conform to a fairer, uniform, network-wide system, it would happen. I have no doubt that the problems related to unit placement exist because Marriott is choosing to hang back and let the resorts deal individually with the aggravation.

 

[klpca]

Wholly agree. In CA at least, these priorities are a violation of law which requires all members to be treated equally by the HOA (subject to deeded views, etc.), IMHLO.

I'm just curious as to which members have to be treated equally? The deeded owners of the resort and/or the owners in the DC? Is the law elastic enough to account for changes such as the DC?

Anyway, I agree - why would a non Marriott exchanger ever be given priority over a Marriott owner?

 

[klpca]

Could be but there are many examples of Marriott asserting dominance over the HOA's and applying blanket policies to every resort, supposedly by virtue of the rights they hold as written into the Management Agreements with each resort. If Marriott wanted the resort personnel to conform to a fairer, uniform, network-wide system, it would happen. I have no doubt that the problems related to unit placement exist because Marriott is choosing to hang back and let the resorts deal individually with the aggravation.

As if unit placement wasn't difficult enough for those working at the front desk. I wouldn't want that job. Ever.

 

[SueDonJ]

Wholly agree. In CA at least, these priorities are a violation of law which requires all members to be treated equally by the HOA (subject to deeded views, etc.), IMHLO.

That doesn't stop the NCV resort personnel from being among the most unfair when it comes to unit placement. The chances of an NCV single-week owner being placed into one of the best-view units during the highest-demand periods are practically nil because so many multi-week owners book those weeks and are always given priority. That resort's policy was one of the first I ever learned about through TUG and it hasn't changed in all these years.