• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

[2013] Unit Placement Discussion [orig "Homeless In Paradise ..."]

After 7 pages, I think all these comments have talked me into my "food for thought": all weeks are deeded "owner weeks" and regardless of who stays there they should all be treated equally (or at least not unequally). People (or the DC trust) should be able to do what they want with their week with the expectation that the user will get all the same rights and privileges (deeded views, etc.) as if the owner herself stayed for those 7 nights.

It seems odd to me that people are perfectly content with the idea that if they sell or trade their deeded OF unit's week to someone else, that those people will automatically be relegated to garden/island view because the owner is not staying in the unit.

If I buy ($400) Club level seats to the Chargers, and sell them, give them away, or "exchange" them, those people shouldn't be placed below season ticket owners who show up at the game, and have to sit in the ($65) view level.
 
No, we're reading the same thread.

Sometimes people make themselves feel frustrated because they're not getting what they expect.

It is important to clarify what kind of owner he wants recognition for.

When visiting a property where FT is not an owner, there is no reason for that property to consider him an owner. His MVC ownership is, however, taken into consideration. How do I know this? Today I talked with people who work with room reservations at two resorts where we own: Ocean Pointe and Grande Ocean. Their reports complemented each other. Both properties do their best to take care of their owners first. Using the guidelines below:

• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners occupying their ownership weeks ("in
season")
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners occupying their ownership week ("in season")
• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners exchanging through Interval International
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners exchanging through Interval International
• Multiple-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International
resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International
• Single-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International
resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International

Here's about where DC users would fit. I was told that total ownership is also considered. He would come before an exchanger from another MVCI property.

• Guests visiting Ocean Pointe on a Sales Preview Package
• Ocean Pointe Owners that are renting a guest room or villa
• Marriott Reward Members that are visiting Ocean Pointe on Marriott Reward
point redemption
• Guests that are renting a guest room or villa
• Owners of resorts outside Marriott Vacation Club International exchanging into
Ocean Pointe through Interval International

When you get the form asking for your room preference you have to prioritize and decide what is most important to you. Do you want high floor, sunny balcony, convenience to amenities. You can't expect it all. Sometimes you get lucky and get it all, but you can't expect it. You can make yourself sick with frustration that you can't have it all. You can post on TUG that you are being treated unfairly.

That is the same with using DC points. In the 2 examples FT used, Ocean Pointe and Frenchman's Cove, he capitalized on Flexibility. Both of the reservations went out of the norm of 7 nights so he prioritized that Flexibility was most important to him. We don't know what other Flexible features of the DC he utilized. He could have made the reservations 13 months out. He could have made them at the last minute with a discounted rate of points. There was a time before the DC owners were dreaming of such Flexibility, longing for 2 night stays without wasting 5. Now we have it. What we forfeited is the place in line that recognizes us as owners occupying our owners week. If we're not at our home resort then we won't be considered a home resort owner. Makes perfect sense.

We will still be recognized as MVCI customers. Our total ownership will be taken into consideration.

As for that rotation memo referred to in other posts. It doesn't stand on it's own. It is in conjunction with the above guidelines. As mentioned above, the resorts use the above guidelines. They try to accommodate owners first. If it comes to a draw between a couple owners then the rotation guideline come in to play.

Sue, I had to look up snarkiness. Honestly, I'm not trying to be snarky. I am very serious in my stand on this issue. Remember when FT took a lot of heat for being suspected as a mole? From the beginning I've appreciated his steadiness. He doesn't get frazzled and bluster. I like that. I like how he and his buddies tell about their many adventures utilizing the Flexibility in the DC. He seems very knowledgeable about the system. But on this issue he is mistaken. I am surprised how 3 years with the DC and it's not clear that "vacations" were the product. I am surprised that the limitations of the system were missed because when it was rolled out the DC was put under the microscope.

Sue, what other information are you referring to which you say I easily discarded because it doesn't support my position. Show me. Don't just refer to it. Show me. How can you say I easily discarded it? You don't know that.


Don't expect me to read too much further into a post that begins "I think" or "I feel" or "They say" or "it's been reported".

You have proven my point exactly.

I don't have answers to all your questions. All I can do is ask questions and communicate my experiences to others. I do have lots of data points over the last 3 years of DC reservations. I have executed owner week, DC, and pure Trust reservations.

I am a Trust owner. I am an owner! Have you seen all the properties and units in the Trust lately?

1. Why should single or multi week legacy owners have preferential treatment over Trust Owners?

2. Why should Trust inventory not be directly available to me?

3. Why is there no transparency in Trust Inventory?

4. Why should a single week owner occupying their week in MFC get a better villa unit location than someone who has over 20K points as a Premier Plus?

5. Why does my status mean nothing at these properties? Today, it only provides reservation priority and some other limited benefits.

6. Why are Trust owners being treated as exchangers? Because the properties can't distinguish between inventory types?

7. If deeded week owners have villa preference priority over Trust Owners, then why would folks but Trust Points? I could just buy an e-bay resale for next to nothing and get my preference honored.

Homeless in Paradise indeed.....
 
Last edited:
You have proven my point exactly.

I don't have answers to all your questions. All I can do is ask questions and communicate my experiences to others. I do have lots of data points over the last 3 years of DC reservations. I have executed owner week, DC, and pure Trust reservations.

I am a Trust owner. I am an owner! Have you seen all the properties and units in the Trust lately?

1. Why should single or multi week legacy owners have preferential treatment over Trust Owners?

2. Why should Trust inventory not be directly available to me?

3. Why is there no transparency in Trust Inventory?

4. Why should a single week owner occupying their week in MFC get a better villa unit location than someone who has over 20K points as a Premier Plus?

5. Why does my status mean nothing at these properties? Today, it only provides reservation priority and some other limited benefits.

6. Why are Trust owners being treated as exchangers? Because the properties can't distinguish between inventory types?

7. If deeded week owners have villa preference priority over Trust Owners, then why would folks but Trust Points? I could just buy an e-bay resale for next to nothing and get my preference honored.

Homeless in Paradise indeed.....
I agree. Or put another way, why should there be "priority" at all (other than deeded views)? Why should those that exchange for an OWNER'S week not get what was exchanged?

Yes, a twist on the whole idea that "owner occupants" of a week should get more out of their week than someone they give it to, but why not?
 
To start my post I'd like to say I made a mistake when I typed in the position where I was told a Trust owner would be placed on the priority list. After proofing it several times I still didn't catch it until seeing my quote used in FT's post. My notation had it right but my placement was wrong. Here's where I meant to place it:

• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners occupying their ownership weeks ("in
season")
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners occupying their ownership week ("in season")
• Ocean Pointe multiple-week Owners exchanging through Interval International
• Ocean Pointe single-week Owners exchanging through Interval International

Here's about where DC users would fit. I was told that total ownership is also considered. He would come before an exchanger from another MVCI property.


• Multiple-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International
resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International
• Single-week Marriott Owners at another Marriott Vacation Club International
resort exchanging into Ocean Pointe through Interval International
• Guests visiting Ocean Pointe on a Sales Preview Package
• Ocean Pointe Owners that are renting a guest room or villa
• Marriott Reward Members that are visiting Ocean Pointe on Marriott Reward
point redemption
• Guests that are renting a guest room or villa
• Owners of resorts outside Marriott Vacation Club International exchanging into
Ocean Pointe through Interval International

I've fixed my post but I can't fix it in FT's quote.

Now to respond to FT the best I can.

You have proven my point exactly.

You're right. I agreed with you back in post #100. The difference is our opinion if it's wrong or right that you should not be considered on the same level as an owner. I'm sorry to have to disagree with you because, as I've said, I appreciate your presence here on TUG. I'd rather not have the conflict.

I don't have answers to all your questions. All I can do is ask questions and communicate my experiences to others. I do have lots of data points over the last 3 years of DC reservations. I have executed owner week, DC, and pure Trust reservations.

I am a Trust owner. I am an owner! Have you seen all the properties and units in the Trust lately?

It doesn't matter that I agree with you but I do agree you are an owner. An owner of vacations. An owner in a Trust that acquires those vacations from properties which it owns (along with all those other many, many Trust owners). But are you an individual owner to each of the 53 properties at the same level as someone who owns a week there? At 20,000 DC points you can't possibly have enough vested percentage at all the properties that a weeks owner owns at his own property.

1. Why should single or multi week legacy owners have preferential treatment over Trust Owners?

2. Why should Trust inventory not be directly available to me?

3. Why is there no transparency in Trust Inventory?

4. Why should a single week owner occupying their week in MFC get a better villa unit location than someone who has over 20K points as a Premier Plus?

I'm also Premier Plus with an ownership value over 20K points. But if I go to a property where I don't own by using either DC points or an II exchange I will fall below the single week owners. I'll be down the list just like you. The front desk will process my room request somewhere in line with your. They'll see my total ownership and consider it.

5. Why does my status mean nothing at these properties? Today, it only provides reservation priority and some other limited benefits.

This is where you go too far. You say your status means nothing. The foundation for your status, which is your total portfolio, does mean something and is considered at check-in. Have you ever read the book "It Could Have Been Worse"? What you don't know with all your reservations is the degree of how good you had it because of your status.

6. Why are Trust owners being treated as exchangers? Because the properties can't distinguish between inventory types?

The properties don't need to distinguish between inventory types because you, as a Trust purchaser, were never promised you would get your vacation from a particular inventory. The documents merely say you would get a vacation if it was available.

7. If deeded week owners have villa preference priority over Trust Owners, then why would folks but Trust Points? I could just buy an e-bay resale for next to nothing and get my preference honored.

People buy Trust points for the flexibility, convenience and affordability. They are buying tomorrow's vacations at today's prices. If you want to go to 1 property for 7 nights then you should buy an eBay resale.

Homeless in Paradise indeed.....
 
Last edited:
4. Why should a single week owner occupying their week in MFC get a better villa unit location than someone who has over 20K points as a Premier Plus?

I'm also Premier Plus with an ownership value over 20K points. But if I go to a property where I don't own by using either DC points or an II exchange I will fall below the single week owners. I'll be down the list just like you. The front desk will process my room request somewhere in line with your. They'll see my total ownership and consider it.

lol... So the poster with the most annual points is the 'The Authoritative' voice in this timeline? 20K beats my point balance! lol...

I didn't realize they take total ownership into consideration. I guess it's like most loyalty programs, the greater your loyalty the better...
-- hotel room size
-- hotel room location
-- car rental size
-- airline cabin seat location
-- ship cabin

and now, for MVW the more points or weeks you own, the better...
-- villa location

All that said, an owner staying at the VC they bought into should always get location preference over anyone else, either using DClub points AND/OR their assigned week/season.
 
Last edited:
FT,
This is a very interesting point. I also own some trust points and have had a few DC point stays, but I didn't notice this on my reservation. My major concern when staying on points is what is my location assignment priority. It appears that each resort has their own policy regarding where DC point redeemers (trust or legacy) stand in the priority line. Some have told me that DC points are equal in priority to single week owners staying on owned week. Others give a slightly lower priority. In my experience, my villa assignments on DC points have been similar to my owned weeks: some good, some ok.
Have you noticed any difference in your villa assignment?

The other benefit of home resort is that we get to vote for board members. I still don't know how this workds for DC trust. This is my third year of point ownership and I have never received any information regarding the board. Do you have any information regarding this?

I would expect that the DC board (which would be an Advisory Board not a HOA) would operate in the same manner as the ABOD of the MVCI Asia Pacific Club points system. The board is elected by members, the number of points you own defines your electoral votes. The ABOD advises the Club Management in the operation of the Club. The Club owns the weeks at the resorts which the Club Members can use. The club thus exercises its votes for the HOAs and ABODs at those resorts where it is an owner.

Perhaps those TUGers who are DC Trust members can advise on what elections have taken place.
 
An Outsider's View

Well the view of an owner from outside the USA.

I've been reading this thread from Post number one on day one with increasing interest but until just now I had not contributed since being an owner outside the USA resorts And not a DC Trust point owner I felt that I was really just an observer rather than a player in this particular game. However I decided that since I am a point owner in the AP points system and also a DC enrolled weeks owner, I would offer some observations from my observers viewpoint.

My 2 main home resorts (Son Antem & Phuket Beach Club) have no units with special views. All are considered the same. No ocean front or penthouse etc.

I have always understood the basic placement priority system that has been explained in this thread and realized that when I exchanged thru II that I would be a way down the pecking order but my main concern was not where I was on that order but what would I get as a unit assignment. Generally I have always been satisfied with what I have been allocated when I have exchanged. We got a great unit at St. kitts last year and also got exactly what I asked for at Cypress Harbour last year - (Top Floor as far from the action and potential disturbance as possible).

I recognize that as a DC enrolled owner, when using my DC points, I am an exchanger. When using my AP points I am a club member since the units are not owned by me or any member, they are owned by the AP Club but I do get the appearance of owner privileges in terms of getting a unit that reflects what I requested. When using my home resort I am an owner of multiple weeks and should be at the top end of the pecking order for placement requests - note I say requests since I also understand that others arrived before me and may well still be In residence and so specific unit requests are not wise since I increase my chances of disappointment.

My only DC points reservation so far was 2 nights added to the end of an II week exchange into MMC. I was not asked to change units at the end of the first week so I guess that the DC points got me the same or slightly higher placement priority as an II exchanger who is a multiple week owner. So far so good. Later this year we have a major DC point vacation coming up at Crystal Shores (6 nights) and Frenchman's Cove (13 nights). Oceanside at Crystal Shores will be fine and whatever we get at Frenchman's Cove will be fine - we have never stayed at a bad Marriott in the ten years that we have been owners.

So that is my two pennies worth (cents here in the UK).

Final comment. I do not believe there will ever be total transparency in the unit allocation process nor any real consistency across resorts. I would never ever want the job of the Resort Manager nor to be the person designated to work out who goes where in the resort!

I look forward to being able to tell you all what a great unit we got at Crystal Shores and Frenchman's Cove but whatever we get I know they are both great vacation destinations and we will have a wonderful time.
 
Last edited:
Great. So because you're familiar with the policy in place at two Marriott resorts, you think that the policy can be applied to every Marriott resort. Does it make any difference at all that people have shared in this thread and in others on TUG that not all resorts use a placement system and/or that where one is used, it might be completely different from any other placement policy in the network?

I have to take drama created by some owners into account when I read through posts here on TUG. I've been at the check-in desks and watched the drama. I've listened to it around the pools. Some things get blown way out of proportion. So, when I read a blustering post that So and So property doesn't follow the placement policy I take it with a grain of salt.


I don't see where anyone has said that they're entitled to "it all." FT has shared that he feels he's being treated unfairly when it comes to unit placements. He based it on being told by a Marriott rep after a consistent pattern of poor unit placements that his DC Trust Membership is not considered to be ownership, despite the fact that over the last three years he's been told by other reps/execs that he most certainly IS an owner. I agree with him, he's being treated unfairly. Certainly Marriott hasn't officially supported or dismissed his feeling - what makes any of our opinions more valid than others when none of us has any idea what Marriott thinks? :shrug:

It's this type of dramatic statement where "none of us has any idea" that I was referring to above.



Will it? Obviously it's what you think but again, that hasn't been FT's experience. It's funny that you talked to Marriott reps at two of the resorts where he's had DC stays, and they've explained things to you in far greater detail than what was ever explained to him. Seems to me, it's my opinion, that the reps with whom you spoke could have been pacifying you as easily as the ones with whom FT has spoken could have been trying to pacify him. The fact is, none of us can count on what's been told to us by Marriott reps because there's nothing in the Weeks or DC governing documents that support any priority placement system.

I called the resorts to understand if there is a corporate wide policy and, if so, how has it been conveyed to the resorts and what it says. Were they trying to pacify me? I don't think so. I tried to formulate my questions in a clear manner and told them I was trying to understand how the system worked. There was no reason I should be dramatically suspicious they were trying to pacify me. As I said, I want facts. I've experienced staying at these resorts and what I was told on the phone supported the customer service I've received.



Again, that's what you think. As I said, prior to the GM using the info that I quoted as the sum total of Barony's placement system, it used to be that the resort's placement system was similar to the hierarchy lists you posted for those two resorts. But they do not publish such a list anymore, they publish only the facts related to unit types and locations, and which requests are made more often and how they rotate all owners among all the units within unit/view type. Whether you consider it valid information or not, I can tell you that my placement experience the last few years has been one week in a high floor unit in one building, the next in a low floor unit in another, the next in a middle floor, etc. Requesting any certain placement appears to make absolutely no difference - they rotate owners according to the info they published. There is no longer a hierarchy. Or if there is an unwritten one somewhere, I haven't seen any evidence that they use it for unit placement. (Which I like, by the way, even as someone whose ownership ranks at the top of the hierarchy you're attributing system-wide.)

Well I called Canyon Villas and Manor Club today (a couple other properties where we are owners).

CV has the same list I posted previously. Owners, even one week owners take precedence. Then come DC users. The person I spoke with said the memo has been sent to all the resorts and corporate is very serious about it. I asked about total ownership being taken into consideration and he said if I was asking if a person with 30 MVCI weeks would usurp a 1 week owner. . .he said the owner would come first. As a tie-breaker between CV 1 week owners. . .yes, it may be considered.

At MC the rooms control person is out until Friday however the front desk person said it was her understanding owners will always have priority.

Then I called Barony. We don't own there but I was treated very nicely when we visited last year. I think the woman I spoke with today was the person who checked me in last year. She said the guidelines were. . .you guessed it, pretty much the same as I posted. The one difference, and we discussed this, was all exchangers, owners included, fell below DC users. She said all exchangers, including owners, can be put on the Garden Side. (Now I know from experience this doesn't always happen. In fact, it was at Barony's front desk I was told my total ownership was taken into consideration.) I asked about the rotation memo and she confirmed that it's used specifically for owners and is intertwined with the corporate room location policy because owners generally ask for one particular building.



You mean, in your opinion, "he's mistaken." It's very clear what the product is - Points which represent ownership interests in a Trust to which Marriott Vacation Club Weeks have been conveyed. What's unclear is why Marriott reps are so inconsistent with when they attribute "ownership" to DC Trust Members and when they don't. What's also unclear is why you think that you know exactly how all this works while the rest of us are floundering around trying to figure it all out with absolutely no clear direction from Marriott reps/execs.

Again, the drama. I'm looking at documents and asking at resorts to get an understanding to how this works. So far what I'm finding has been supported by my experience.



Well, that's an odd way to limit a discussion but sure. I hope you don't mind the favor being returned.

Sorry to be so blunt but I'm not a fast reader and my days just don't seem long enough for everything I need to do. So I have to draw the line somewhere.



lol... So the poster with the most annual points is the 'The Authoritative' voice in this timeline? 20K beats my point balance! lol...

I didn't realize they take total ownership into consideration. I guess it's like most loyalty programs, the greater your loyalty the better...
-- hotel room size
-- hotel room location
-- car rental size
-- airline cabin seat location
-- ship cabin



and now, for MVW the more points or weeks you own, the better...
-- villa location

All that said, an owner staying at the VC they bought into should always get location preference over anyone else, either using DClub points AND/OR their assigned week/season.

First, I never said total ownership would or should be a factor of top priority. But it is a consideration. I know I've often had remarks from front desks and CS reps thanking me for my loyalty. Maybe it would be a tie breaker if other things were considered equal. Ownership, as I've been told, always takes precedence.

I only brought my point amount (value of my loyalty) into play to make a comparison. FT mentioned his amount of points (value of his loyalty) should be a consideration as an owner. I contend that his 20K should be divided over 53 resorts. I have 20K divided between 4 resorts. At 1 I am a multi-week owner so there I'm kind of special. At the other 3 I'm a 1 week owner so at those properties I'm special but at a lesser degree. At the other 49 resorts I'm a valued MVCI customer but will be slotted in according to what type of reservation I made. Trust owners would be deemed special but just a notch below 1 week owners. This is supported by what I've been told from the conversations I've had with a few resorts.
 
Last edited:
... Trust owners would be deemed special but just a notch below 1 week owners. This is supported by what I've been told from the conversations I've had with a few resorts.

I'm sorry but it's too much to keep picking away point-by-point. Respectfully, the crux of the matter is that there is no consistency between what Weeks Owners and DC Points users have been told, and/or between what any of us have experienced. All of the Marriott reps in the world can say something but if what they say isn't supported by consistent experience or, more importantly, by language in the governing documents, it's worthless no matter who says it. What you're hearing might support your usage at your home resorts but it still doesn't provide an answer from the corporate powers-that-be to the basic questions in this thread, i.e. "where are DC Trust and Exchange Members supposed to be incorporated into any placement hierarchy," and, "if they're not supposed to be incorporated as Marriott owners of a type (which has been suggested to FT by at least one Marriott rep AND borne out by his not-inconsiderable usage pattern,) why not?"

I still simply don't understand why you think that you have heard/experienced The Definitive Marriott Corporate Statement/Policy related to unit placements and DC Points usage. It should be painfully obvious to all of us that we're not all being told the same thing, and we're not all treated consistently across every resort in the network. Even taking into account all of the variables involved with unit placement, there is no consistent hierarchy or placement system at work across the network.

(I do thank you for sharing your conversation with the front desk employee at Barony Beach Club. As an Owner I've been led to believe differently both by official communications from the GM as well as an actual usage pattern. Next time I'm going to bring a print-out of the statement you were given and ask them why they're telling Owners one thing and non-Owners another.)

Finally, I think we've all seen some of the bluster that takes place at check-in areas. But I don't think that it's correct for any of us in this thread to attribute bluster to each other's posts. IMO no one here has appeared to be unreasonable or dramatic. But to be blunt, it's interesting that you're the only one who is making claims that the information and opinions you're sharing are more valid - somehow more supported by Marriott - than anyone else's.
 
Last edited:
Bottom Line

At first, this timeline started with someone feeling their not getting the respect their purchase warrants. That may be so, but post after post confirms their is NO official MVW policy. Their seems to be a policy overridden by check-in bluster, advance smooze calls to the placement team and plain hoping for the best.

The BOTTOM LINE is if you're being assigned a crapy room and accept it because it's your turn, you're the kind of owner I like. Because I continually angle for the best location. And that means I need someone to accept "it's their turn".
 
Last edited:
First, I never said total ownership would or should be a factor of top priority. But it is a consideration. I know I've often had remark from front desks and CS reps thanking me for my loyalty. Maybe it would be a tie breaker if other things were considered equal. Ownership, as I've been told, always takes precedence.

I only brought my point amount (value of my loyalty) into play to make a comparison. FT mentioned his amount of points (value of his loyalty) should be a consideration as an owner. I contend that his 20K should be divided over 53 resorts. I have 20K divided between 4 resorts. At 1 I am a multi-week owner so there I'm kind of special. At the other 3 I'm a 1 week owner so at those properties I'm special but at a lesser degree. At the other 49 resorts I'm a valued MVCI customer but will be slotted in according to what type of reservation I made. Trust owners would be deemed special but just a notch below 1 week owners. This is supported by what I've been told from the conversations I've had with a few resorts.

RELAX I only mentioned the points as a joke. And you're right, you were not the first to bring-up, "well I have...". While some posts within the timeline seem to have frustrated you... you are doing a great, but I'm sure a tiring job, of trying to keep everyone fact based.

To be honest...
You've called three or four resorts. I suggest you keep calling the other resorts. Create a spreadsheet with names and titles of the PLACEMENT Team members you speak with. The key will be speaking to a PLACEMENT Team member.

In the end, the time invested will prove YOUR point. And your chart will be powerful evidence.
 
I'm sorry but it's too much to keep picking away point-by-point. In other words, as long as you get the last word then point-by-point can be considered closed? Respectfully, the crux of the matter is that there is no consistency between what Weeks Owners and DC Points users have been told, and/or between what any of us have experienced. Only you understand the crux of the matter? You're speaking for all Tuggers? All of the Marriott reps in the world can say something but if what they say isn't supported by consistent experience or, more importantly, by language in the governing documents, it's worthless no matter who says it. What you're hearing might support your usage at your home resorts but it still doesn't provide an answer from the corporate powers-that-be to the basic questions in this thread, i.e. "where are DC Trust and Exchange Members supposed to be incorporated into any placement hierarchy," and, "if they're not supposed to be incorporated as Marriott owners I'd like to know what kind of owner the Marriott rep was referring to: was it an owner at the property or a MVC owner. There is a definite difference. (which has been suggested to FT by at least one Marriott rep,) why not?"



I still simply don't understand why you think that you have heard/experienced The Definitive Marriott Corporate Statement/Policy related to unit placements and DC Points usage. It should be painfully obvious to all of us that we're not all being told the same thing, and we're not all treated consistently across every resort in the network. Even taking into account all of the variables involved with unit placement, there is no consistent hierarchy or placement system at work across the network. Too many variables for an apples to apples comparison. Human involvement will always create differences. Comparitivly consistent, yes. Identical, no.

(I do thank you for sharing your conversation with the front desk employee at Barony Beach Club. As an Owner I've been led to believe differently both by official communications from the GM as well as an actual usage pattern. Next time I'm going to bring a print-out of the statement you were given and ask them why they're telling Owners one thing and non-Owners another.) I'm sure it's all part of their daily drama.

Finally, I think we've all seen some of the bluster that takes place at check-in areas. But I don't think that it's correct for any of us in this thread to attribute bluster to each other's posts. IMO no one here has appeared to be unreasonable or dramatic. But to be blunt, it's interesting that you're the only one who is making claims that the information and opinions you're sharing are more valid - somehow more supported by Marriott - than anyone else's.

I like statements backed up by something more concrete than innuendo, hearsay, drama and bluster. So I go looking for the backup. I didn't know what I'd find when I began. I didn't start with an agenda. I'm just submitting my findings. No one has to listen.
 
RELAX I only mentioned the points as a joke. And you're right, you were not the first to bring-up, "well I have...". While some posts within the timeline seem to have frustrated you... you are doing a great, but I'm sure a tiring job, of trying to keep everyone fact based.

To be honest...
You've called three or four resorts. I suggest you keep calling the other resorts. Create a spreadsheet with names and titles of the PLACEMENT Team members you speak with. The key will be speaking to a PLACEMENT Team member.

In the end, the time invested will prove YOUR point. And your chart will be powerful evidence.

I am relaxed rpgriego. Read my response as a calm clarification.

I'm done calling. I'm satisfied.
 
Last edited:
At first, this timeline started with someone feeling their not getting the respect their purchase warrants. That may be so, but post after post confirms their is NO official MVW policy. Their seems to be a policy overridden by check-in bluster, advance smooze calls to the placement team and plain hoping for the best.

The BOTTOM LINE is if you're being assigned a crapy room and accept it because it's your turn, you're the kind of owner I like. Because I continually angle for the best location. And that means I need someone to accept "it's their turn".

The guy I spoke with at Canyon Villas said the guidelines I listed previously were sent out by corporate to all the resorts.
 
I'm sorry but it's too much to keep picking away point-by-point. ...

In other words, as long as you get the last word then point-by-point can be considered closed? ...

No, but I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. I only meant it's too much for me. I find I'm repeating myself to the points you're repeatedly making because they're not any more clear to me now than when you first made them. We disagree, obviously, and that's okay and that's probably not going to change. The last word doesn't matter.
 
Informative discussion

I have to say as a reader of the entire post from the beginning, this has been great give and take on the various points. I will say that I am very impressed with the ability to provide information with verrrrry limited frustration showing in the posts of the contributors. While we will never all agree, it is amazing to see the quality of the writing and opinions of the TUG community. Kudos to all!
 
With some anxiety I'm posting on this thread again. It bothered me considerably to be called out for being snarky and told that my comments were so far off base that it was like I was reading another thread. So I had to look again from the beginning to see if I was totally confused. For a couple days I tried reading it through again but kept getting interrupted. So last night when the others went to bed I stayed up to go over the whole thing, looking at each post. Whew, 8 pages. Plus a couple more because in post #54 dioxide introduced a quote from another thread, so I went through that one too. I'm not quick at dissecting each person's thoughts so I read and had to re-read some of them many times. It took me until the wee hours of the morning. (Hence, my post to GregT's thread at 2:46 in the morning.) The cat was happy. She wanted in around 3 to have a snack, use the litter box and then go back out. :rolleyes:

I won't get into my ultimate determination as I've already stated my convictions. However, I would like to say I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with my bluntness. My family says I'm brutally blunt. It's not meant in any means to be malicious. If one of my kids had sat at the table and said "None of the teachers like me" I could probably be inclined to say "That's pretty dramatic, can you give me the details?" My daughter, who would be the one most likely to call me out on being blunt will also be the one to call me out on being dramatic. We've been told we're very much alike so she knows what's she's talking about. All that to say I'm not trying to be mean. If I think something sounds a bit dramatic I'm likely to say so. Again, I'm sorry if I've caused offense.

To points (oops, wrong word) items related to this thread, I got a call today from the rooms location person at OP. I had called her the other day but when she wasn't available I talked with one of her staff. She did, however, get my message and was returning my call. Most of what she said was comparable to the previous conversation. While I tried to take notes, it would be too difficult to type and I might make a mistake and misquote something. A couple points she brought out that others didn't were interesting:

-- Owner occupancy rates really matter. OP has one of the highest owner occupancy rates, especially during the 3 month winter crunch.

-- There are relatively few DC reservations. I asked how they distinguish priority between DC and II exchangers and all are considered exchangers.

-- The reservation of an owner who has mixed DC and use of an owned week would be looked at for averages. If it was mostly a DC reservation then it would be an exchange. i.e., out of the whole reservation how many nights were owner week and how many on DC.

-- Here's where the conversation went to a truly personal level. After saying Platinum owners will want certain locations and Gold owners will come in wanting something very different she concluded it's very difficult to please everyone. She then went further to say it's their wish that they could make everyone happy. Being blunt, I asked "Really?" She came right back with "Yes, why wouldn't I?" Having known her for several years I'm convinced she's sincere.

The next item is something I noticed at greater depth last night than I had before. I have some questions on the quote below. Let's say a Premier Plus Trust member goes to 20 different resorts over several years. With the following list would they always be deemed to get multi-week priority? On reservation #1 they go to Ocean Pointe. It's their first time there so the rotation plan puts them at the top of the food chain. On reservation #2 they go to Oceana Palms. It's their first time on the rotation there so they go to the top of the food chain. On reservation #3 they go to Grande Vista and head to the top of the food chain because it's their first time for that rotation system. Same for reservations #4 - 20.

Multi week and single week owners who return to their resort year after year and are slotted into the rotation guidelines will have PP and P Trust members competing for most coveted buildings and rooms every year because Trust members new to the rotation will be coming in every year.

It's difficult to formulate my thoughts. Am I making any sense?


Wouldn't they be better to just use ownership status in DC to prioritize priority placement. Do as follows.
  1. Put Premier Plus Owners on par with Multi Week owners staying on their owned week.
  2. Put Premier Owners on par with single week owners staying on their owned week.
  3. Put Standard Owners on par with MVCI owners exchanging in.
Seems an equitable way to do it?:shrug:
 
Last edited:
Quilter- what you surmised above in reference to Dioxide's prior post makes sense to me. Actually, while I agree with the vast majority of Dioxide's posts, that one didn't make sense to be either.

I think a lot of your analysis in this thread is right on, and correlates with what you've posted about what you've been told is the prioritizing system for placement. I think a lot of the problem is there doesn't appear to be a universally applied- or at least publicized- assignment policy.

I can certainly understand the disappointment of a trust points owner not getting owner priority for unit placement. To me, the analysis that a trust point owner, by virtue of the fact that he/she is an owner at every resort is actually proportionately only a minor owner ( unless an exorbitant number of points are owned) at each individual resort and therefore would fall below a single week owner staying in the resort in which they own.

To a certain extent it comes back to the price of flexibility of the DC. If you use an owned week you are considered an owner at the resort you fully support with your MF's..Trust points convey ultimate flexibility, but minor ownership in each entity of the Trust. Thus, at each individual resort Trust point owners really aren't on par with actual owners of the resort, and should fall below them for unit placement, but above non-owner exchangers because they do own a small piece of the pie, so to speak. I think part of the price of flexibility is also giving up preferential treatment enjoyed by actually being an owner at a particular property.

That said, I do think they really try to accommodate people as best as they can. We recently had two units at Harbour lakes, with reservations for one of them being switched into a few weeks before (both using points). They assigned me 4th floor villas in the location requested, and more importantly gave me units next to each other.. Another big plus- we arrived around 1, and had requested an earlier check-in if possible, since we had a toddler with us; one villa was ready on arrival. So I certainly felt I was treated as an owner- if not at that property, certainly as a valued Marriott owner, commensurate with having Premiere status, whether or not that had any bearing on anything..
 
That said, I do think they really try to accommodate people as best as they can. We recently had two units at Harbour lakes, with reservations for one of them being switched into a few weeks before (both using points). They assigned me 4th floor villas in the location requested, and more importantly gave me units next to each other.. Another big plus- we arrived around 1, and had requested an earlier check-in if possible, since we had a toddler with us; one villa was ready on arrival. So I certainly felt I was treated as an owner- if not at that property, certainly as a valued Marriott owner, commensurate with having Premiere status, whether or not that had any bearing on anything..

Am I right that Harbour Lakes is mostly Trust like Oceana Palms and Crystal Shores? At those Trust properties it makes perfect sense that Trust owners will have very little competition for rooms with the "home court" owners. Therefore, they are closer to the top priority pecking order than at the "old" properties.

As the Trust grows in numbers a new priority which utilizes the Premier Plus, Premier and Standard levels will likely take place at mostly Trust properties. But that's just speculation based on my experience with Marriott customer service.

For now, those mostly Trust properties can be seen as "Home" for Trust owners. This was evidenced in post #122 by NightSkyTraveler. In post #71 CashEddie said he received a good room for points at Crystal Shores but didn't specify if he's a Trust holder.

As owners of the "old" properties sell and the Trust gains control home owner competition for rooms will diminish.
 
Am I right that Harbour Lakes is mostly Trust like Oceana Palms and Crystal Shores? At those Trust properties it makes perfect sense that Trust owners will have very little competition for rooms with the "home court" owners. Therefore, they are closer to the top priority pecking order than at the "old" properties.

As the Trust grows in numbers a new priority which utilizes the Premier Plus, Premier and Standard levels will likely take place at mostly Trust properties. But that's just speculation based on my experience with Marriott customer service.

For now, those mostly Trust properties can be seen as "Home" for Trust owners. This was evidenced in post #122 by NightSkyTraveler. In post #71 CashEddie said he received a good room for points at Crystal Shores but didn't specify if he's a Trust holder.

As owners of the "old" properties sell and the Trust gains control home owner competition for rooms will diminish.

Quilter,

I'm not a trust owner. I just used legacy points of my own that go converted to from a legacy week. I also was placed in good room at OceanWatch in oceanfront, center unit with the larger balcony. I requested all of this during the request period and I was granted all the requests I made, except I didn't get a high floor at OceanWatch. I still had an excellent view of the ocean.

Two ressies with great placement using points. One at a trust heavy resort during the "off season" (Crystal Shores) and one at during ultra prime season with a resort that is not trust heavy and high owner occupancy during this time of the year (OceanWatch). All using plain legacy points elected from converted weeks.

I think it goes back to what you stated in the conversation with the room placement person at OP: they try to fill every request as best as they can.
 
Wouldn't they be better to just use ownership status in DC to prioritize priority placement. Do as follows.
  1. Put Premier Plus Owners on par with Multi Week owners staying on their owned week.
  2. Put Premier Owners on par with single week owners staying on their owned week.
  3. Put Standard Owners on par with MVCI owners exchanging in.
Seems an equitable way to do it?:shrug:

This is a good idea, IF the occupancy is reserved from the Trust and NOT from the exchange co.

All occupancy is either owned, exchanged, or rented.

That's pretty easy to see when you own a week and
1. use it,
2. exchange it or
3. rent it.

If you own points and the occupancy you reserve is obtained from the Trust, it is an owner stay. You should be treated no different than a legacy owner especially for a points stay of seven nights equivalent to a traditional week. Short points stays are a tougher call, because broken weeks may make it more difficult for legacy owners to reserve their week in season. Short stays probably are a royal PITA for the villa assignment folks.

If you own points and the occupancy you reserve couldn't be filled from the trust it came from the exchange co. You are therefore an exchanger.

Are you different from a Marriott owner who has an II exchange? Yes - you had a view choice and guarantee. You paid for that. You should get what you paid for.

That aside, I don't see why two otherwise equivalent Marriott owners, one of whom is a points exchanger while the other is an II exchanger, should be prioritized differently. II exchangers can be enrolled in DC and just using the asset they signed up for - their week or an otherwise equivalent week from that other Marriott endorsed exchange company - II.

Positing II exchangers as 'second class' exchangers, ranking after DC exchangers, is that fair? Because I purchased occupancy in weeks and have no current interest the flexibility (and associated cost read skim) of points stays?

Moreover, I think if the points exchanger is a short stay week breaker, the preference should go to the full week II week stay.

But that's my opinion. Nothing more.
 
If you own points and the occupancy you reserve is obtained from the Trust, it is an owner stay. You should be treated no different than a legacy owner especially for a points stay of seven nights equivalent to a traditional week. Short points stays are a tougher call, because broken weeks may make it more difficult for legacy owners to reserve their week in season. Short stays probably are a royal PITA for the villa assignment folks.

If you own points and the occupancy you reserve couldn't be filled from the trust it came from the exchange co. You are therefore an exchanger.

Isn't there the possibility the reservation will be mixed with days from the Trust and days from the Exchange bucket?

From the conversation I had with the OP rooms control person I got the distinct impression priority placement isn't so fine tuned as to dissect between how many days are from Trust and from the Exchange pool. It's owner's first, exchangers after that. That's where owner occupancy comes into play. There's so little availability for exchangers during the crunch time at properties with high owner occupancy. Then you add in check in dates. The availability for an exchanger on a particular day is very limited. Dissecting the few exchangers isn't as big an issue as dissecting the owners.

As owners sell and the Trust takes control there will be more competition between Trust and points users and less competition with home owners.
 
As owners sell and the Trust takes control there will be more competition between Trust and points users and less competition with home owners.

I saw someone else mention something similar and I don't get this. As owners sell (to other third parties) how would the trust gain more control? Perhaps I'm being dense, but I haven't had my coffee yet. :eek:
 
I saw someone else mention something similar and I don't get this. As owners sell (to other third parties) how would the trust gain more control? Perhaps I'm being dense, but I haven't had my coffee yet. :eek:

As more owners sell and MVCI invokes their ROFR more prime units go back into the Trust. However this will take many many years. MVCI would have to ROFR more than do at present.
 
I saw someone else mention something similar and I don't get this. As owners sell (to other third parties) how would the trust gain more control? Perhaps I'm being dense, but I haven't had my coffee yet. :eek:

I believe Quilter was referring to Marriott buy backs of weeks to place into the Trust.
 
Top