[2012] "Should My Week(s) Be Enrolled?"

[SueDonJ]

Looking at this though, do the numbers/fees get a little disproportionate if you bought your weeks via resale?

I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly, but ... the only difference between external-resales and developer-direct costs is in the enrollment fees - all other numbers/fees are the same.

 

[ilene13]

With 13500 DC Points you'll have Premier Plus status. Any time you use the DC system you'll follow all the rules, eligibility, reservation windows, etc for Prem Plus Members, regardless of how many Weeks you're converting to Points at that time.

Remember that the rules, etc for each program do not extend to the other, so when you're using Weeks nothing changes from what you've always done.




I agree. Once you're enrolled you can call anytime and ask them to check DC availability without committing to converting Weeks to Points. Calling specifically about availability before you're enrolled might not get you the same results, but it's worth a try. You might have some success if you explain to the rep that you want to have a somewhat specific question answered before you commit to enrollment - something like, "if you search now do you see availability, for example, at Crystal Shores in October?" If they just flat out refuse to search availability during that call, you can always hang up without committing to enrollment and then ask a TUGger who has DC Points to search for you. (I'd do it but don't have any Points to play with. )

Good luck. It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of what you need to know, and I don't blame you for wanting to be sure.

I did call and they were nice enough to give me an answer. I did tell them it would be a deal breaker if they refused. We have not joined yet and although we did not drink the koolaide we are leaning towards joining.

 

[mm251]

Thanks NJMOM2. You did answer my questions. It nice to these variables confirmed by another opinion.
I looked at vacationpointexchange.com. Looks like a great source. That explains what others were alluding to. At .50 a point, or $2500 for a 5000 point unit, that will beat a lot of rentals.

 

[mm251]

Using weeks retains 13 month reservation advantage.

"Remember that the rules, etc for each program do not extend to the other, so when you're using Weeks nothing changes from what you've always done."

Thanks SueDonJ for the initial thread. I have learned a lot from all.
One last question that you may have answered above. If I enroll my eligible week and continue using weeks, would my ineligible week still count for the 13 month advance reservation as the owner of two Marriott's. (I would deposit them in II).

 

[SueDonJ]

... One last question that you may have answered above. If I enroll my eligible week and continue using weeks, would my ineligible week still count for the 13 month advance reservation as the owner of two Marriott's. (I would deposit them in II).

Yes, you'll still be able to use the 13-mos reservation window as long as you're booking your two Weeks concurrently/consecutively. If during any year you convert your enrolled Week to DC Points, you'll have to use the 12-mos reservation window to book your single un-enrolled Week.

 

[GrayFal]

Joined today, said I would not but I caved

Time will tell ....

 

[Tellmanny]

Still on Fence...

We're currently at Timber Lodge and sat through a presentation. We own (bought directly from Marriott-not resale) 1 week at NCV (Gold) and have exchanged (successfully) thru II the past 4 years into locations where we wanted to go.

We have two young children (4 and 7) so we like to stay full weeks wherever we exchange to. We're relatively "new" owners (since 2007). Our "goal" is to eventually stay at All MVC locations...

Would appreciate feedback from "seasoned" owners to convince/persuade either way...

Thanks!!

 

[Wally3433]

I own at the Aruba SC, and I am staying put. I can't get past the fact that they are not offering me enough points to stay a week in Aruba, during the season I purchased.

I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year. We've also used AC's. We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.

The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.

I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision, and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.

I had to refer to my gut on this one. My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test. Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.

Good luck everyone on your decision.

Does anyone else feel the way I do?

 

[mlfrancis]

I do

We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.

The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.

I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision, and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.

I had to refer to my gut on this one. My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test. Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.

Good luck everyone on your decision.

Does anyone else feel the way I do?

We typically go the resorts we own, exchange or swap Waiohai every two years (go every 4), and lock-off Aruba and exchange the efficiency - so it's the best of all worlds. I've seen no drop-off in availability in Interval, have been able to exchange that lock-off in 2010, 2011, and 2012 for full 2BR's at the best Marriotts in Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach, etc.

So we're not joining.

 

[channimal]

buying my ts on resale for extremely low $ and having other non-Marriott timeshares .. just doesn't make sense for me to join.

 

[m61376]

I own at the Aruba SC, and I am staying put. I can't get past the fact that they are not offering me enough points to stay a week in Aruba, during the season I purchased.

I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year. We've also used AC's. We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.

The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.

I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision, and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.

I had to refer to my gut on this one. My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test. Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.

Good luck everyone on your decision.

Does anyone else feel the way I do?

You're far from alone. I agree will everything you've said, but I'm going to join for two reasons- protection/insurance for what Marriott changes may come down the road that penalize non-members (or gives preference to members) and to be able to utilize the point rental market

I'm the first to admit that it's probably 2K down the drain.

 

[hansmatt]

I think I'll also join, also as protection for future changes. There will be no/little savings, but the initial outlay is "only" $600. I'll be on a trip next week & may do a tour & see if they'll toss in some bones.

 

[dioxide45]

I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year. We've also used AC's. We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.

The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.

I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision, and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.

I had to refer to my gut on this one. My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test. Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.

Good luck everyone on your decision.

Does anyone else feel the way I do?

The thing is, by enrolling, you aren't changing anything about your current ownership. You are only adding the points option. Everything you have done in the past you would be able to do in the future. I assume you only own the Marriott week (no other non Marriott's). You are paying $89+$119+119+$80 each year in fees for locking off and exchanging through II.

You are paying $407 each year in a la carte fees. While perhaps reasonable, you can do better by enrolling. If you bought from Marriott, you will be saving money in the second year. If you bought resale, then you will save money in the fourth year. For me the five year break even point is the target to look at. Wait until after the deadline and you will not break even for six years if you enroll after June 14th

While it is a personal decision, I see where a single week lock off owner that always trades both units can benefit from enrolling, and you never once have to convert to DC points. It is solely on fee savings along. You never have to subject yourself to the skim.

 

[Wally3433]

You're far from alone. I agree will everything you've said, but I'm going to join for two reasons- protection/insurance for what Marriott changes may come down the road that penalize non-members (or gives preference to members) and to be able to utilize the point rental market

I'm the first to admit that it's probably 2K down the drain.

I actually fear the opposite - Marriott changes that will adversely affect those that decided to join.

There's that part of me that says if Marriott wants me to convert so badly, right now, then it must be better for me to stand pat - and keep what they want to myself. Twisted logic, for sure.

 

[dioxide45]

I actually fear the opposite - Marriott changes that will adversely affect those that decided to join.

There's that part of me that says if Marriott wants me to convert so badly, right now, then it must be better for me to stand pat - and keep what they want to myself. Twisted logic, for sure.

Perhaps, but if they adversely affect weeks based ownership, it will adversely affect those that are enrolled and those that are not. Not sure why they would negatively target enrolled owners. Not sure what they could do that would negatively affect them vs just regular non enrolled owners.

MVCI wants people to enroll because that enrollment fee is 100% profit. That helps their new bottom line as a separately traded company. Shareholders like profit, I don't think there is much more to the push than that.

 

[mm251]

I do not think there are ANY protections.

I actually fear the opposite - Marriott changes that will adversely affect those that decided to join.

There's that part of me that says if Marriott wants me to convert so badly, right now, then it must be better for me to stand pat - and keep what they want to myself. Twisted logic, for sure.

I agree the changes may adversely affect those that join. As I read the documents, there are two levels of membership. Trust members and exchange members (formerly weeks owners). You enroll for a year. The rules are different for Trust vs Exchange members. Exchange members are, if in good standing, offered a continuation of their membership annually. That offer will and can be changed by Marriot VC at their whim. The annual fee can be changed and even be different than the Trust member dues. For those that are seeking "protection", there is none. Every clause in the terms and conditions is subject to MVC's unilateral modification. If too many Exchange members use only their weeks, MVC loses their skim. Can we trust that they will not make it up by increasing dues for that select group that is "allowed" to join. The exchange costs have to be covered somewhere.
The more I look at the whole scenario, the more it is likened to the sales floor where: If you do not buy that car today, the price will not be available tomorrow!

I have a difficult time trusting the creators of the point system that sent weeks values into a freefall!

Someone, please tell me that I have misunderstood what I read.

 

[m61376]

I agree that there is a lot that's subject to modification, but really that's been true of the exchange program right along. I do fear that perhaps a logical extension of the DC program might be to give Marriott preference in II only to DC club members (please note this is just a figment of perhaps my overactive imagination), which would be a big benefit to enrolled week owners versus non-DC members. It would be an easy extension of the program since enrolled members have their enrolled weeks in a corporate II account.

As a resale owner I also am wary as to whether or not they will continue to basically grandfather those weeks in the future, I find it curious that the upcoming price increase is pretty dramatic for direct week purchasers but relatively minimal for resale week owners, unless their intention is to no longer offer that option for enrollment in the near future. Again, this is all conjecture and may very well be a poor reason to join.

I'm rationalizing taking the plunge and joining by the likely use of renting points to supplement my ownership at some point in the future, feeling that the savings will hopefully offset the enrollment costs and feel that enrolling will protect my "investment." Although many the resale weeks purchased by Tuggers were relative bargains, many of us still made substantial outlays and while not an investment in the traditional sense perhaps, we still would like to protect its usage. I do feel that developer purchased weeks will always be welcome to join, albeit at a higher price, but Marriott may roll up the welcome mat for pre- June 2010 resale weeks; that may have been a time limited opportunity because Marriott needed as many owners as they could get to jump on the bandwagon to get the program started. Sadly, it is in their best interest to further enhance the value of points and I could foresee them further devaluing resale weeks by limiting the Marriott preference in II for trading to club members only. Admittedly, I seem to be in a small minority here (possible the only one) that feels this is a likely sequelae, but I suspect we'll see this as a further "enhancement" to the program in the not too far distant future. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Luckybee]

We finally decided not to join. After going back and forth for the past couple of weeks and spending the better part of this afternoon on the phone with other friends from Aruba we decided there simply wasnt any point to it for us.

I originally thought of it as "insurance" but as my one friend said "from what" . There are not that many properties in the entire Marriott inventory that we would give up Aruba for, and if we do trade it may very well be outside Marriott. When we go to many other places we wouldnt likely stay at the Marriotts since we have our other favourites , and the skim would not allow us to get anything of comparable value(unless one thinks Orlando and/or Beach Place etc. is a fair comparison...lol). In the case of having to trade on short notice for medical situations (which is always my biggest concern)points wouldnt work for us.

I have to be honest , had it not been for the outrageous Aruba skim we would have joined, and perhaps excercised the points option for some of our other holidays but C'est La vie
So as Ilene put it...we aren't drinking the koolaid, rather planning on enjoying our lovely glasses of wine while gazing out at many more Aruba sunsets !

Geez, good to have this thought process over with :whoopie:

 

[amyhwang]

I own at the Aruba SC, and I am staying put. I can't get past the fact that they are not offering me enough points to stay a week in Aruba, during the season I purchased.

I split my unit each year, and end up trading into a two bedroom for two weeks in Aruba every year. We've also used AC's. We feel like we are getting a tremendous value already in our current situation, so I see no reason to switch.

The fees we pay to II seem extremely fair to me - we've never had a problem getting what we wanted - so it's a transaction fee we are happy to pay.

I have my hands around all the advantages and disadvantages to my decision, and after reading all the posts here, feel like I understand everything.

I had to refer to my gut on this one. My gut tells me that the Marriott Points system is unnecessarily confusing, is not tangible, and the point allocation for my unit does not pass the smell test. Seems foolish to change something that we are already very happy with.

Good luck everyone on your decision.

Does anyone else feel the way I do?

I do feel the same way. We bought EOY at Ko Olina, and the first year we used just the one bedroom and deposited the studio (our kids were younger at the time, just 10 and 12). We used the sitting room with one rollaway for my daughter, and the living room with another rollaway for my son, put them both, one upright, in the sitting room during the day, so it worked out great that year. The studio got us a full 2 bedroom at the Four Seasons in Phoenix the following year, so we visited friends that live in Phoenix and had a great vacation there! With daily full maid service to boot!

We bought EOY and plan to do just that, go to Ko Olina probably every two years. So we plan on using our week that way for a while at least. Since we only have one eligible week, it seems like a waste of money to have to pay every year to keep enrolled, and probably not use the points. It would be money wasted I think.

Our friends own a bunch of great weeks, bought before Ko Olina was even built, so they got a better price than we did. For them, it makes sense, since they own a lot, and give the time away a lot (they're very generous people). I totally understand the benefit for them, but for our one week it's not worth it.

If we decide to trade with II, we have a great trader so I'm not worried.

 

[davemy]

I am not Joining because I don't have a extra $700.00 to waste on Timesharing or Vacations right now. My Kids are killing me. lol I am not going to put it on my Visa either. If i had the money to throw away right now, I would have joined just to stay in the loop with Marriott, but i don't. Will see what happens, I hope I don't regret it.

 

[Old Hickory]

We're currently at Timber Lodge and sat through a presentation. We own (bought directly from Marriott-not resale) 1 week at NCV (Gold) and have exchanged (successfully) thru II the past 4 years into locations where we wanted to go.

We have two young children (4 and 7) so we like to stay full weeks wherever we exchange to. We're relatively "new" owners (since 2007). Our "goal" is to eventually stay at All MVC locations...

Would appreciate feedback from "seasoned" owners to convince/persuade either way...

Thanks!!

We too are single week original owners (since 2007) who exchange our week every year into a new location/property. Our payback is nearly 13 years if fees remain the same but we enrolled because the DC gives us flexibility to use points for less than a week stay should we ever need that option. And the 800 bonus points might (might) make up the $595 to enroll.

 

[bsohn]

I thought I would chime in on this about my experience with the Destination Points.. We signed in early and it has been a huge and i mean HUGE advantage to me..

#1 between me and my parents trust we own 7 weeks at top properties and this is an advantage in the destination points scenario as you are given more points for better properties..

At first joining was just to take advantage of the II being paid for as well as the exchange fees. A year of Membership in II was something like $70 (i Think that is what it was) and one exchange was $120.00 so right there we were at $190 or so..

The bonus 800 points that were given more than paid for the $695.00 entrance to the program as I rented off the reservation made with the points to the tune of $800.00 so I made that back easy.

The main thing though is this.. Last January my jad passed away. He and my mom used their stays in Hawaii all the time and in an instant no travel was being made.. Granted Hawaii is easily rentable.. so the made reservations were easy to get rid of.. but what I found is that with the points I can now get a potential rental and then find exactly what they want rather than being stuck to just the resorts I own.. This has allowed us to pay for our maintenance fees and costs and not have to travel because none of us in the family can currently use all that we have available to us..

This has been a very very good thing as when my dad passed it also cut down the family income considerable and we even considered for a second selling off the timeshares completely.. But the destination points has allowed us to retain all of our units through renting them off more easily.

The one thing that is a concern for the future is that the Destination Points Program has two parts the Exchange portion which is what current owners can sign in for and the Trust portion which is what Marriott is currently selling and owns.. The issue is that Exchange Destination Points cannot be used for Trust Destination points units.. Therefore, any new property that Marriott builds will be Trust ONLY therefore our Exchange points will not work to get into these resorts. This is why Interval is included in the Club Dues as you will get first dibs on these resorts through interval but you will not be able to make a direct reservation at these properties. However this issue works both ways as properties that were sold out in weeks are unavalible to new owners with Trust points without the owners at those resorts giving their weeks up in exchange.

All in all the Destination Points have been good to us for many reasons. I would highly suggest enrolling even if you think there is no use for you at this moment. Granted it is best to do it fast as they are seriously upping the cost. I will admit though that the owners with higher power more expensive properties will benefit much more than a single low property owner. But if you own properties for the purpose of exchanging it will save you money.

Brion

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening...

I am going to try and address Luckybees scenario and try and convince Lucky to enroll... I am making a few assumptions, so if I am incorrect please gently correct me...

Lucky, I believe from your posts you are a single retail purchaser (from MVCI) of a single Aruba week. It also appears you go yearly, unclear if you have a 2 bedroom L/O.

Lets simplisticly assume that you never exchange, lockoff and you only occupy!!! Pay the $595 and use the 800 pts to book a 2-3 day weekday stay (tues-wed-thurs) before a friday check in or a sun mon tues after a sunday checkout. These xtra days would be about $595 perhaps more on marriott.com


even if you never do a single DC transaction you are even....

it gets better..you book the week you want at your home resort at 12 months out. Now, you want to change your week within season. What used to be a $29 fee is now zero!!!

I think the "skim" is real but put it in perspective....It is not relevant regarding getting a week at your home season in your home resort. You never did this before thru II, so why would you do it thru DC...Just pick out the week you want as always...

The "skim" kicks in when you exchange from one property to another. Take my Waiohai week..I get 4250 pts for this..The average for a week in my season is 4500 so my skim is 250 pts. Pres week is now 5000 pts (+/-) a few. If I wanted Pres week (not plat plus here) I would use my atomic clock and call in...

The skim plays in when you go to comparable properties...Assume Koolina and Waiohau are both 4500 to book a week. Yet I only get 4250. I have been skimmed by 250 pts to do this exchange. I need to pick up 250 pts to do this...I rent them from Gregs site for $125 which is the equivalent of the II exchange fee, as an enrolled member there is NO internal exchange fee. So in the old method you were skimmed post excahnge, in DC you are skimmed pre exchange..but if you value a DC point at $0.50 it is a wash...

If you have a 2 bedroom l/o and want to play and uptrade, do it in weeks and ave on fees!!!!

Here is another issue to consider... At the end of the day, you are going to leave this unit to an heir... Perhaps your heirs don't want to go to Aruba. It would be better for them to inherit a deeded week with DC options. Perhaps, they want to stay closer to home...

Remember the choice isn't Weeks OR points, it is weeks PLUS DC point capabilities!!!

Lucky, I agree that Aruba owners got hosed on the points conversion but I think you are better off enrolling...

As I said at the opening, at the very least you are paying $595 to extend of one your Aruba weeks by 2 days...not so terrible!!!

just my 2 cents!!!

 

[FractionalTraveler]

Also to consider is that all new program enhancements may be limited to DC members in the future.

 

[Luckybee]

good evening...

I am going to try and address Luckybees scenario and try and convince Lucky to enroll... I am making a few assumptions, so if I am incorrect please gently correct me...

Lucky, I believe from your posts you are a single retail purchaser (from MVCI) of a single Aruba week. It also appears you go yearly, unclear if you have a 2 bedroom L/O.We have 2 weeks but they are 1 bdrm gold season and yes we go almost every year...we've missed 2 or 3...and only when there have been medical issues for not going, and in all cases we were able to trade through I.I. for exactly what we wanted

Lets simplisticly assume that you never exchange, lockoff and you only occupy!!! Pay the $595 and use the 800 pts to book a 2-3 day weekday stay (tues-wed-thurs) before a friday check in or a sun mon tues after a sunday checkout. These xtra days would be about $595 perhaps more on marriott.com. I checked with Marriott about this and they're only good for 1 year, and given that we're in Canada, with no timeshares any where near us, and we already have our flights booked for the next 3 trips between now and next May, they'd probably go to waste , or we'd simply end up giving them away. We might be able to use 2 days for Aruba but then we'd have to give up our extra nights at the Hyatt hotel there which I love...lol)


even if you never do a single DC transaction you are even....

it gets better..you book the week you want at your home resort at 12 months out. Now, you want to change your week within season. What used to be a $29 fee is now zero!!! We've only had to do that once in about 15 years of ownership

I think the "skim" is real but put it in perspective....It is not relevant regarding getting a week at your home season in your home resort. You never did this before thru II, so why would you do it thru DC...Just pick out the week you want as always...

The "skim" kicks in when you exchange from one property to another. Take my Waiohai week..I get 4250 pts for this..The average for a week in my season is 4500 so my skim is 250 pts. Pres week is now 5000 pts (+/-) a few. If I wanted Pres week (not plat plus here) I would use my atomic clock and call in...

The skim plays in when you go to comparable properties...Assume Koolina and Waiohau are both 4500 to book a week. Yet I only get 4250. I have been skimmed by 250 pts to do this exchange. I need to pick up 250 pts to do this...I rent them from Gregs site for $125 which is the equivalent of the II exchange fee, as an enrolled member there is NO internal exchange fee. So in the old method you were skimmed post excahnge, in DC you are skimmed pre exchange..but if you value a DC point at $0.50 it is a wash...Here's where the problem comes in...we only get about 2050(or 2100...I've forgotten now) points per week....if we did want to do Ko-Olina we'd only get about 3 or 4 night for a weeks value. The only other property potentially would be Waiohai and thats in another dimension point wise. Wouldnt do Lihue, or Maui(no disrespect to Maui owners but we simply have other favourites on Maui, and unlike many other timeshare owners Im quite happy with a 6* hotel even if the room is smaller ). So for the properties we would take I cant see the point given that I wouldnt give up 2 weeks in Aruba for 8- 10 days in Ko- Olina

If you have a 2 bedroom l/o and want to play and uptrade, do it in weeks and ave on fees!!!!

Here is another issue to consider... At the end of the day, you are going to leave this unit to an heir... Perhaps your heirs don't want to go to Aruba.My husband has 2 sons, who have both been to Aruba and both love it....but I dont plan on turning it over anytime soon, at least I hope not to It would be better for them to inherit a deeded week with DC options. Here's where you do have me though...I thought that Dc membership didnt transfer to anyone else ? Perhaps, they want to stay closer to home...We're in Canada...do you really think anyone wants to be here in the winter ?

Remember the choice isn't Weeks OR points, it is weeks PLUS DC point capabilities!!!

Lucky, I agree that Aruba owners got hosed on the points conversion but I think you are better off enrolling...

As I said at the opening, at the very least you are paying $595 to extend of one your Aruba weeks by 2 days...not so terrible!!! ($695 ...but you're right..spent more than that today taking my neighbours cat to the vet...dont ask ) I know some may find this illogical, but part of my decision is based on principal...since I dont feel like I'm missing anything by not joining, why would I give Marriott an extra $700 when they have, as you said "hosed" Aruba owners so badly...mind you this isnt the first time....but dont get me started ....lol) I also happen to think that they "hosed " owners who travel in the last quarter of the year because they're the only ones who can't check out point trade space before commiting to trading for points if they are members ! ie: Sept. the yr prior. just my 2 cents!!!

Your insight is always quite interesting Puck...does your perspective change now with these additional facts?