2012 MF's

[rthib]

One possible reason for increase MF and reserve is the number of foreclosures and people not paying MF.

Take a look on the other boards and you will see people talking about walking away from their units.

Most people assume that when the do not pay MF they are hurting MVCI but the truth is that it gets passed on to others.
So with more people late or not paying MF, the associations need to make sure they have a reserve to cover

 

[dougp26364]

One possible reason for increase MF and reserve is the number of foreclosures and people not paying MF.

Take a look on the other boards and you will see people talking about walking away from their units.

Most people assume that when the do not pay MF they are hurting MVCI but the truth is that it gets passed on to others.
So with more people late or not paying MF, the associations need to make sure they have a reserve to cover

If you look at your billing and the total breakdown of your MF's, you'll see that bad debt expense is accounted for as a seperate line item under expenses. For instance Ocean Pointe estimated into their budget for 2011 a bad debt expense of $333,049. Grand Chateau's bad debt expense was $667,000 for 2011. These are in addition to the cash reserve funding.

 

[rsackett]

Marriott Manor Club Plat. (MMC)

2012 Property Tax Fee....... 63.55 2011 Property Tax Fee..........63.73
2012 Replacement Reserve 206.00 2011 Reserve Fee...............188.00
2012 Operating Fee.......... 728.45 2011 Operating Fee.............714.27
2012 Total Charges......... $998.00 2011 Total Charges............$966.00

for a 3.3% increase

Ray

 

[dougp26364]

Proposed budget for Ocean Ponite

2 bedroom:
Operating fee $808.64
Reserve fee $273.11
Owners Service Fee/Club Dues $34.45
Property tax:
Silver season $186.85
Gold season $209.76
Platinum season $307.79

Total Proposed:
Silver season $1,303.05
Gold season $209.76
Platinum season $1,423.29

3 bedroom
Operating fee $972.82
Reserve fee $328.56
Owners Service fee/Club Dues $34.45
Property Tax:
Silver season $263.53
Gold season $313.67
Platinum season $422.29

Total Proposed
Silver season $1,599.36
Gold season $1,649.50
Platinum Season $1,758.12

We own a 3 bedroom Silver season. The increase in MF's is ~5.8%. If memory serves me properly, Ocean Pointe has suffered approx 6% MF increases every year. It appears reserve funding has been increased $50/year for our week, which is a ~18% increse in the reserve.

 

[pwrshift]

BeachPlace slammed for a proposed 9.1% increase!!

BEACHPLACE TOWERS PROPOSED BUDGET FOR 2012 - PLATINUM

2012 Property Tax Fee....... 46.25 2011 Property Tax Fee..........68.41
2012 Replacement Reserve 288.00 2011 Reserve Fee...............188.00
2012 Operating Fee.......... 745.28 2011 Operating Fee............674.67
2012 Total Charges... $1,079.53 2011 Total Charges....$997.08

for a 9.1% increase

Don't you just hate it when they tell you the increases, but not why?? A President's letter would have been a great help...and might help avoid some 'owner anger'. We've had a couple of years with modest increases, so this increase is a little hard to understand without more info.

Activities up 26.9%
Administration up 12.2%
Front Desk up 20.8%
Income Tax up 19.8%
Maintenance up 12%
Management Fee up 15.4%
Pool Maintenance up 13.1%
Refuse Collection up 25.2%
Garage parking up 65.6%
Net operating fee up 10.5%
Reserve Fee up 13.4%
Property Tax down 32.4%
Owner Services fee up 3%

 

[dioxide45]

Garage parking up 65.6%

With Garage Parking up that much, do you suppose that they will be offering free parking to all Marriott owners?

 

[Superchief]

2 bedroom:
Operating fee $808.64
Reserve fee $273.11
Owners Service Fee/Club Dues $34.45
Property tax:
Silver season $186.85
Gold season $209.76
Platinum season $307.79

Total Proposed:
Silver season $1,303.05
Gold season $209.76
Platinum season $1,423.29

3 bedroom
Operating fee $972.82
Reserve fee $328.56
Owners Service fee/Club Dues $34.45
Property Tax:
Silver season $263.53
Gold season $313.67
Platinum season $422.29

Total Proposed
Silver season $1,599.36
Gold season $1,649.50
Platinum Season $1,758.12

We own a 3 bedroom Silver season. The increase in MF's is ~5.8%. If memory serves me properly, Ocean Pointe has suffered approx 6% MF increases every year. It appears reserve funding has been increased $50/year for our week, which is a ~18% increse in the reserve.

I just reviewed the proposed budget, and a key contributor is 10% increase in administration. One item I have seen mentioned in several of my MVC budget proposals is a significant increase in medical insurance. Most companies (except for govt workers of course) I know are passing on a large portion of this increase to employees, so I don't think owners should be expected to pay all of these cost increases.

 

[dioxide45]

I still can't see how those extra costs can be charged to the Weeks owners, when the docs for Weeks are pretty clear that their fees have to be justified in the Operating Budgets. Any blatant DC-related fees included in those budgets will be fairly transparent.

I am not sure how these DC related fees would be transparent. An increase in say Housekeeping, Front Desk, or Maintenance due to more transient stays (caused by DC) wouldn't not be transparent at all. Those costs are all added in to those individual buckets and all owners pay the increased cost.

In the past, the HOAs used to get the fee from lock off, split week, and daily stay occupancy options. That was to cover the extra costs of those types of usage. Those fees are gone for enrolled owners. So those costs have to fall somewhere.

 

[dougp26364]

I just reviewed the proposed budget, and a key contributor is 10% increase in administration. One item I have seen mentioned in several of my MVC budget proposals is a significant increase in medical insurance. Most companies (except for govt workers of course) I know are passing on a large portion of this increase to employees, so I don't think owners should be expected to pay all of these cost increases.

I guess it wouldn't matter if the medical cost is a line item or if it's rolled into another item on the budget. One way or another, increased medical costs are going to roll downhill. Owners are sitting at the bottom of that hill.

Still, Marriott is but two of 7 timeshares we own. I have budgets, or proposed budgets for 5 of those 7. One timeshare had 0% increase, one had a 4.92% increase and another had a 1% increase. So Marriott is well above average for the timeshares we own when it comes to increases in MF's.

 

[SueDonJ]

I am not sure how these DC related fees would be transparent. An increase in say Housekeeping, Front Desk, or Maintenance due to more transient stays (caused by DC) wouldn't not be transparent at all. Those costs are all added in to those individual buckets and all owners pay the increased cost.

In the past, the HOAs used to get the fee from lock off, split week, and daily stay occupancy options. That was to cover the extra costs of those types of usage. Those fees are gone for enrolled owners. So those costs have to fall somewhere.

If the Operating Budgets show percentage increases in those fees which could be DC-related that are out of whack with the historical percentage increases, I'd say that would be enough transparency to guess that DC-related costs are being unfairly charged to Weeks owners.

Somewhere in all of this don't we have to consider that the DC will be billed the same MF as we're being billed for all of the Weeks that have been conveyed to the Trust? So if they're playing fast and loose with the budgets in order to charge us more than what should be our fair share, wouldn't they be also effectively overcharging themselves too?

*********
On a related note, today the Club Dues fees for enrolled Weeks are showing as payable on my-vacationclub.com.

 

[flyboy0681]

One thing I've never been able to understand is why the maintenance fee is different for Platinum versus Gold Versus Bronze, etc.

Maintaining the property is a constant expense and doesn't know from a particular season, so why should it be a variable expense based upon when you occupy?

If the property is replacing TV's in the units with a flat screen, why should Platinum's have to pony up more for it? It's not as if during week 52 the TV starts working better or the new carpet is plusher.

 

[MOXJO7282]

One thing I've never been able to understand is why the maintenance fee is different for Platinum versus Gold Versus Bronze, etc.

Maintaining the property is a constant expense and doesn't know from a particular season, so why should it be a variable expense based upon when you occupy?

If the property is replacing TV's in the units with a flat screen, why should Platinum's have to pony up more for it? It's not as if during week 52 the TV starts working better or the new carpet is plusher.

Its not different. Purchase price is but not annual maintenance fees, which are the same no matter the season. At least not at Marriott.

 

[flyboy0681]

Its not different. Purchase price is but not annual maintenance fees, which are the same no matter the season. At least not at Marriott.

I'm basing my statement on what I see on the following spreadsheet, which has been compiled by a member of this board. Most "metals" appear to be the same but there are some that are different, such as 2br Grande Vista Platinum, which is listed as $955 versus Gold at $926. Harbor Lake Plat is listed as $2,550 while Gold is $1,950, and Manor Club Plat is $2,375 (yeowzer!) and Gold $1,375.

http://media.tripod.lycos.com/2933232/1806683.pdf

Maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong?

 

[SueDonJ]

In some states there could be differences in the property taxes between seasons as well as between same units/seasons because of purchase prices. The differences you're seeing at Grande Vista are due to property tax differences but could also be because some units are part of the Florida Club and some are not.

I think the differences you're seeing at Harbour Lake and Manor Club are because you're transposing the DC-Points allotments columns with the MF columns - all Harbour Lakes' 2011 MF were $959 and Manor Club's were $966.

{eta} Now NJMOM's post after mine shows property tax differences for 2012 Harbour Lakes MF. Greg's chart doesn't show a difference between Plat and Gold for 2011 - is it new this year or is it an error in the chart? Hmmmm.

 

[NJMOM2]

Estimated MF for Harbour Lake

Operating fee $680.48
Reserve fee $212.00
Property tax:
Gold season $83.46
Platinum & Platinum Plus season $106.69

Total Proposed:
Gold season $975.94
Platinum & Platinum Plus season $999.17

Gold Increase 4.5%
Platinum & Platinum Plus increase 4.2%

 

[GaryDouglas]

Chill

I like the small increase from year to year but why did the reserve go up so much? If my math is correct that is a 67% increase in reserve.

It may be because they have scheduled the replacment of all the chillers for the original buildings. Hopefully the president will delineate the reason/s why in his next letter...

 

[dougp26364]

It may be because they have scheduled the replacment of all the chillers for the original buildings. Hopefully the president will delineate the reason/s why in his next letter...

The reserve has gone up 50+% at both Grand Chateau and Ocean Pointe as well. In fact, Marriott's increases alone are almost as much as the total cash reserve at other timeshares.

I'm all for protecting the resort with adaquate cash reserves but I question why Marriott is sometimes double what HGVC is charging for similar quality. For instance, our 2 bedroom Las Vegas Strip HGVC collects $147 in cash reserves while Grand Chateau is a little over $400 for our 3 bedroom unit.

 

[bazzap]

Phuket Beach Club 2.84% increase

We have not seen the detail yet, but the Phuket Beach Club MFs for 2012 will have a 2.84% increase.
As we understand inflation in Thailand is running at 4.1% and the minimum wage is due to rise by 50%, this seems to show well managed financial control.
We wish this was reflected across all our the resorts where we own weeks.

 

[rsackett]

I'm basing my statement on what I see on the following spreadsheet, which has been compiled by a member of this board. Most "metals" appear to be the same but there are some that are different, such as 2br Grande Vista Platinum, which is listed as $955 versus Gold at $926. Harbor Lake Plat is listed as $2,550 while Gold is $1,950, and Manor Club Plat is $2,375 (yeowzer!) and Gold $1,375.

http://media.tripod.lycos.com/2933232/1806683.pdf

Maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong?

Manor Club Plat is $998 not $2375, big difference!

Ray

 

[aka Julie]

I'm basing my statement on what I see on the following spreadsheet, which has been compiled by a member of this board. Most "metals" appear to be the same but there are some that are different, such as 2br Grande Vista Platinum, which is listed as $955 versus Gold at $926. Harbor Lake Plat is listed as $2,550 while Gold is $1,950, and Manor Club Plat is $2,375 (yeowzer!) and Gold $1,375.

http://media.tripod.lycos.com/2933232/1806683.pdf

Maybe I'm just interpreting it wrong?

You were looking at the DC points column -- how many (on average) DC points it takes to book in that season. Big difference that the MF column.

 

[classiclincoln]

While not in the Marriott system, the 2012 fees for our Ren Aruba (managed by Marriott) are $664, up from $641 the last 2 years. Not bad.

 

[minoter]

The BeachPlace Towers budget is the Marriott proposed budget, not the Board approved budget. The Board and Finance committee are also concerned about the increase in the fee for 2012, especially the items Powershift pointed out in his post. I have had discussions with many owners regarding the increases in the budget sent to BP owners by Marriott.

Please be assured that the BeachPlace Board is working hard to have Marriott justify these increases and that the budget you received is not the final approved budget. The Board has challenged Marriott in past years regarding the budget increases. We intend to continue this process through our finance committee structure.

There has been no change in the parking policies at BeachPlace. The Board and Finance committee are meeting with Marriott tomorrow. The budget will change. There is a 15 year refurbishment in 2013 which help explains the reserve increase. The Board wants to avoid any special assessment for this refurbishment.

The blended maintenance fee has been flat (+/-1%) for the last three years and the Association is in a good financial position.

Eric Minotti
Board President

 

[pwrshift]

Dump Marriott management?

Thanks Eric ... I knew you'd come through for us owners. Interesting to see that it's Marriott's proposal and not approved by the HOA as yet. That leaves me still thinking that Marriott wants to move all MF up, not just at BPT, so that they align closer to the 'point' MF they charge to those who bought DC points....which would represent a huge increase across the board for currently sold out resorts.

If they go too far, the HOA may have to look into replacing Marriott -- not something I'd want to do, but when you think about the BPT MF in 10 years time using percent increases Marriott is famous for, it may be inevitable we'll have to dump Marriott management, if that's even possible with the new voting rights for those who have signed up as legacy members.

Brian

 

[SueDonJ]

Thanks Eric ... I knew you'd come through for us owners. Interesting to see that it's Marriott's proposal and not approved by the HOA as yet. That leaves me still thinking that Marriott wants to move all MF up, not just at BPT, so that they align closer to the 'point' MF they charge to those who bought DC points....which would represent a huge increase across the board for currently sold out resorts.

If they go too far, the HOA may have to look into replacing Marriott -- not something I'd want to do, but when you think about the BPT MF in 10 years time using percent increases Marriott is famous for, it may be inevitable we'll have to dump Marriott management, if that's even possible with the new voting rights for those who have signed up as legacy members.

Brian

Just about what I bolded - the voting restriction that was a part of the Enrollment Agreement when the DC was first rolled out doesn't exist anymore. Here's TUGger Cmore's post from when the change was first reported back in late February. If you go through the links for the enrollment process on your my-vacationclub.com account you'll see that Section 1(e) has been deleted from the Enrollment Terms and Conditons. Marriott no longer has a legal influence in how an enrolled Weeks Owner can or can't vote (if in fact they ever did, if it was even enforceable when it was in place.)

[eta] I'm not yelling at you, Brian, with the bolding. It's just that this has been mentioned several times in different threads since that first notice but folks still seem to be under the wrong impression.

 

[LAX Mom]

Marriott Summit Watch:

2012 Property Tax Fee...... 68.91
2012 Reserve Fee............282.58
2012 Operating Fee......... 832.57

2012 Total Charges...... $1,184.06


4.9% increase from 2011 MF of $1,128.53