[ 2012 ] Hi. I am a genuine timeshare scammer.

[Beefnot]

This person writes well, and that makes me think it isn't Ride. Nonetheless, this was a fun read. I think someone is pranking us.

Maybe ridewihme38 was just his alter ego he created. Maybe ride is a bona fide sociopath. This may be his longest period of TUG inactivity. Maybe he is done with us and has moved on. I love a good conspiracy.

 

[TSscammer2]

Forced into a new account

I believe in karma and you'll get yours in the end. Hopefully you don't have any children for you to pollute with your twisted sense of logic.

I don't believe in karma. I've never found Hinduism very enlightening. I do, however, concede that I am a scumbag.

I'm going to address a few other things. I'm not a troll. I'm not Ride. I have no idea who that is. I'm not trying to work anybody into a frenzy. I would have written the post with a far more insulting tone than I did if I were trying to enrage people.

Denise M. said that anybody could have written my post with information that can be found on this board. I do agree that it might be possible. I doubt it though. It would take a fairly talented writer to gather up highly dispersed and varied claims and piece them together into something coherent. I don't personally think that I would have been able to do it. On a side note, I can't prove to the other people on this thread that you banned my original account, but we both know you did.

My post was in no way intended to inform other timeshare scammers to lay low. We have no loyalty to each other. It's actually beneficial to me if other people get arrested. The authorities typically go for a few headline busts and then drop the issue.

The reason I posted was because it was extremely interesting to me to see how people on the receiving end of the call digested the fact that they've been scammed and the overall thought process of the victim.

I'm willing to reciprocate if anybody has questions.

And to the person who asked, my IP would've appeared to be coming from Switzerland yesterday. I'm not sure where it is today.

The administrator banned me. That is somewhat amusing on a forum that has automated registration. I'm not here to indefinitely mingle in the community and I'm only going to post on this thread. http://i.imgur.com/N6nAD.jpg

 

[Luvstotravel]

I'm willing to reciprocate if anybody has questions.

Ok, I'll bite: how do you get your leads? Who do you call?

 

[AwayWeGo]

I May Start Resembling That Remark Before Long.

I have just had to untangle my fathers finances and put him in assisted living, didn't realize how easily my dad could fall for telephone scammers, he was getting 3-5 calls a day and had drawers full of make money from home crap. He'd also borrowed against his life insurance policy and never made a payment, the interest had ballooned to more than the principal, so even legit businesses prey on seniors. I didn't realize how much his mental capacity had diminished, he really thought some of them were legit, that people can make easy money at home stuffing envelopes.

Far as I know, I am still mostly OK mentally. Ditto The Chief Of Staff. Yet we are both pushing 70 & each day that passes takes us closer to the potential onset of dementia or memory loss or both, or worse.

From what I have seen of some whose lives ended in totally diminished mental capacity from Alzheimer's-type dementia, the process can be subtle & gradual with highs & lows that vary from day to day or hour to hour, featuring weeks of mental disarray punctuated by brief periods of seeming lucidity.

I do not fret that I may be heading in that direction myself. I do what I can to stay healthy & sharp & to avoid undue risks to what brainpower & physical stamina I have left. Beyond that, the future is not under my control. What will be, will be.

Once I start to slip, I wonder whether I will have some awareness of my own condition on the 1 hand, or whether on the other hand I will continue on in the blithe assumption that I am still OK.

My late stepmother must have known her mental acuity was starting to go. When she forgot our names while remembering in some vague way that we were part of her social-family circle, she would lean close & say, "Now what should I call you?" She'd sometimes ask, "Do you live near here?" or, "Do you have children?" etc. -- conversationally acceptable questions that might elicit a clue she could use to jog her weakening memory. She kept it going for a long time. Once, after my father passed away & she had been moved from her home to an upscale Alzheimer's facility, she said to her (older) sister, "I don't know what happened. I used to have a husband. I used to have a home. I don't know what happened."

By contrast, when dementia ravaged my late mother-in-law, she simply retreated to her room & her bed, as though her spirit died before her body did, as though she knew her mind was weakening & making her feel so lost that she no longer tried to cope. The Chief Of Staff asked her why she didn't let her friends & her preacher come visit. "They'll think I'm stupid," her mother said.

Very sad. Heartbreaking.

Meanwhile life, though short, is good. I am extremely grateful for every day that I'm still breathing air.

As for the TUG-BBS trolls & timeshare scammers, shux upon'm.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[theo]

Yessa!

<snip> Meanwhile life, though short, is good. I am extremely grateful for every day that I'm still breathing air.

As for the TUG-BBS trolls & timeshare scammers, shux upon'm.

As always, wise, inspirational and insightful words and thoughts. Thanks, Alan.

 

[Rent_Share]

Don't feed the troll

 

[rrlongwell]

Don't feed the troll

I do not think anyone can feed the troll. Whatever the point was was made and the person is gone. Probably another TUGer under a different screan name since he indicated some knowledge of earlier posts.

For whatever it is worth, my guess is the other screen name would be a familiar one.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Alan, I know exactly what you mean about dementia. My grandmother could do the NY Times crossword puzzle five years before she died, and just before she died, she believed a lot of scammers who told her they would give her money. It was sad to see her decline in that way. I also wonder what my future holds. Will I believe any person who calls me on the phone? I don't know. I hope not.

 

[TSscammer2]

Sorry to hear that

I do what I can to stay healthy & sharp & to avoid undue risks to what brainpower & physical stamina I have left. Beyond that, the future is not under my control.[/RIGHT]

The impending prospect of dementia must be scary. My 91-year-old grandmother is suffering from Alzheimer's. My father, my uncle, my cousin and I take turns staying with her overnight to make sure that she takes her medicine and that nothing happens to her. I usually end up sleeping there two nights a week.

It is heartbreaking to see what happens to people as their minds deteriorate. My grandfather passed away in 2007 after an even worse struggle with dementia. He did things similar to what you were describing. He never forgot who my father was, but he definitely couldn't remember me, my sisters, or my cousins. He knew we were family but he didn't know our names or what our relationship to him was.

I tell myself that I will never fall for a telephone scam. Who knows though. My grandfather on my mom's side of the family had dementia too. So 75% of my grandparents had it in one form or another. Those aren't good odds.

On an unrelated note, I don't know why people keep suggesting that I'm just a troll. Like I've said before, I'm not. None of you know me. This isn't some kind of ruse. Everything I've written on this board has been true.

 

[theo]

I dunno...

I do not think anyone can feed the troll. Whatever the point was was made and the person is gone. Probably another TUGer under a different screan name since he indicated some knowledge of earlier posts.

For whatever it is worth, my guess is the other screen name would be a familiar one.

You might be right, but I personally can't envision a legitimate, established TUG participant expending the time or effort to "fabricate" the tale. My own "suspects" are, plainly stated, simply not as articulate.

I do not intend to feed the troll, but would love to see some specific assertions as to the alleged source of the sucker lists "contact" info. We all know that it ain't "public records", as is so often lamely claimed.

 

[ace2000]

On an unrelated note, I don't know why people keep suggesting that I'm just a troll. Like I've said before, I'm not. None of you know me. This isn't some kind of ruse. Everything I've written on this board has been true.

Want to share with us why you've decided to make your post here? What's your motivation? Other than just trying to stir things up, I don't get it.

 

[bnoble]

It would take a fairly talented writer to gather up highly dispersed and varied claims and piece them together into something coherent.

Depends on how long you've been reading the board, and how much you are paying attention here and elsewhere. For example, I figured out this bit before buying my first (resale, pennies-on-the-dollar) timeshare:

The beauty of a timeshare owner is that, to a scammer, they're a perfect combination of two things: somebody who has money and somebody who is a pushover.

I'm not claiming you did just piece together, but I do think one could given enough experience.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

FYI, PT Barnum *DID NOT SAY* anything about a sucker being born every minute. Look it up on Snopes or Wikipedia for proof.

TS

 

[STEVIE]

I just want to say I find this thread a little creepy. Not knowing if this person is real, or if they are just toying with us bothers me. I read this forum to find out real informative information, not be be creeped out.
Sue

 

[TSscammer]

I guess I wasn't banned.

Only the IP address I was using was banned. My account wasn't. My mistake.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and get to some of your questions.

I do not intend to feed the troll, but would love to see some specific assertions as to the alleged source of the sucker lists "contact" info. We all know that it ain't "public records", as is so often lamely claimed.

There are a number of ways this information is gathered. The first way is oftentimes sufficient for most scams, although it wouldn't work for timeshare resale. Most timeshare buyers oftentimes agree to go on a heavily-discounted vacation if they agree to visit a timeshare presentation while they're there. They might not actually know that they agreed to do that when they signed up, but they nevertheless are obligated to attend.

These vacations are one of the tentacles of the telemarketing world. The vacation packages sales rooms aren't nearly as dirty as most other sales rooms. The most scandalous thing that happens on a regular basis in these rooms is that the sales people will tell a customer that airfare is included in their $599 (or whatever price) vacation. I'm sure worse things have gone down from time to time, but the airfare inclusion thing is the one that room owners complain about their people doing the most.

The "deal sheet" that comes from one of these vacation rooms will have the purchaser's name, address, credit card number, expiration date and CVC. You can do a lot with this information, but it never includes the last four digits of the SSN or the date of birth. It doesn't have the mother's maiden name either. The missing information is what's needed for more insidious scamming, but it's not too hard to make do with what's on these sheets.

Most individual sales people will make a 10% commission on any given sale. They need at least two per day to have any kind of livable wage. When you take into account the fact that a sales floor will have between 5-20 reps, that means that the room owner adds at least ten deal sheets with valid financial information to his file cabinet per day.

A lot of these rooms do not stay open for long. Honestly, I would say at least half don't last a month. Most of the room owners are insanely irresponsible with money and blow all the cash they get more quickly than you can imagine. This isn't even a stereotype. I can't think of any room owners that it isn't true for.

When a room closes, that means that the owner's deal sheets are for sale. He's not parting with the originals, mind you. He's giving you copies. He's giving other people copies too. This maximizes his income. If you come across a used deal sheet, it's basically guaranteed that several other people have it too.

Just to illustrate what I'm talking about, I will give an example of something that happens from time to time when you're trying to rip off somebody with a used deal sheet. This doesn't happen all the time or anything, but it's annoyingly common.

From time to time you'll be setting up a "deal" to resell somebody's timeshare. After a few days, the client will say something like "well, Mark Davis just called me today and told me that he was going to handle the sale from now on." When this happens, you know that Mark Davis is the alias somebody else is using and that he's working the same deal sheet you are. At this time it is a race to get the money between you and the other person.

If you trash the other person too much, and if the other person does so too, you essentially destroy any credibility that either one of you had and neither one of you end up getting any money. The best thing you can do when a client tells you that they talked to somebody else and they said that they would be handling the deal is to act like that person works in your office as well and that there was some kind of internal mix up. If you don't get a wire transfer from this customer very quickly, they will likely be lost forever.

Interestingly, if the leads are newer, this will happen more often. Older leads do not have as many people calling them as often, so even though the client has likely been ripped off a few times already, you probably won't have to deal with other scammers competing for their money.

Now, everything that I just talked about as far as how you get a deal sheet applies to all the deal sheets that are out there. Not just the vacation package deal sheets.

The vacation package deal sheets really aren't the most desirable ones. The timeshare leads are. These are acquired in the same way. There are also deal sheets from L.I. rooms. That stands for lower interest. It's a whole different scam that tells people they can get lower rates on their credit cards if they pay $1000.

All of these rooms are constantly closing and opening back up again because the merchant accounts people use die all the time. The type of transactions that a call center processes are what the industry calls MOTO--mail order/telephone order. This is a high risk account. It's as high risk as it gets for the company supplying the merchant account. The card is not present and they have to take the word of the sales floor owner that the sales they're putting through are legitimate.

These MOTO accounts have different terms, but they will freeze up if they get either a 1% or 2% chargeback rate. A chargeback is when a customer calls their credit card company and asks for a refund from them instead of from the merchant that actually charged the card.

Most of the room owners will process deals so recklessly that their accounts will close within a month. I've seen it happen at least fifty times. I know one guy whose merchant account lasted literally two days.

Again, all of this information applies to vacation package rooms, L.I. rooms, timeshare resale rooms, mortgage refinance rooms, etc. There are a lot of deal sheets floating around. I would bet money that I have some of the people on this board's information right now. The scary thing is, I'm not the only person with it. There are probably 50-100 people in Florida that have an enormous database of deal sheets.

A lot of you were asking that same question, which is why I answered it.

Do you guys still think I'm fake? I'm not. I'm also definitely not this Real person that everybody keeps suggesting I am. He might be an asshole too, but I don't know him.

Any other questions?

 

[Luvstotravel]

Any other questions?

Yes. Why did you quote someone else, and say it was me? That creeped me out.

 

[TSscammer]

Oops

Yes. Why did you quote someone else, and say it was me? That creeped me out.

I'm new here. I don't know why it did that. I haven't used message boards since I had CompuServ when I was a kid. I didn't mean to quote the wrong person.

 

[Egret1986]

Okay, I'm not a cheerleader for Ride, but........

Do you guys still think I'm fake? I'm not. I'm also definitely not this Real person that everybody keeps suggesting I am. He might be an asshole too, but I don't know him.

.....Wow, that's crazy funny. I wonder if Ride would get a chuckle outta this thread that some on the board thinks he's the TSscammer. :hysterical:

 

[TSscammer]

Want to share with us why you've decided to make your post here? What's your motivation? Other than just trying to stir things up, I don't get it.

It was pretty interesting for me to read people's accounts of being defrauded. I thought some of you might have questions for somebody who is on the other side of the swindle. I'm making myself available. I definitely understand if people want to vent their frustration at me, but I thought that an open dialog might make for an interesting discussion.

 

[Luvstotravel]

It was pretty interesting for me to read people's accounts of being defrauded. I thought some of you might have questions for somebody who is on the other side of the swindle. I'm making myself available. I definitely understand if people want to vent their frustration at me, but I thought that an open dialog might make for an interesting discussion.

Well, I don't really have any questions.

We went on a timeshare tour for the first time back in 2000. It was so awful, I hated the very idea of timesharing. We couldn't escape fast enough.

Fast forward to 2008. Another timeshare tour-it took 8 years for us to get over the trauma of the first tour!-and this one was very low key. We said "no thanks" and they were fine with that. That approach actually left me intrigued and wanting to find out more about timeshares.

I spent a year reading and absorbing info on the internet about timeshares. Bought 2, both for $1, from ebay. I'm satisfied.

 

[DeniseM]

It was pretty interesting for me to read people's accounts of being defrauded. I thought some of you might have questions for somebody who is on the other side of the swindle. I'm making myself available. I definitely understand if people want to vent their frustration at me, but I thought that an open dialog might make for an interesting discussion.

No one who posted in this thread has been, "on the other side of the swindle." The posts you read on TUG from people who have been scammed are from newbies who usually post once or twice and disappear.

Nothing you have posted here in news worthy, and I see no reason to stroke your ego by engaging in a dialogue.

 

[TSscammer]

No one who posted in this thread has been, "on the other side of the swindle." The posts you read on TUG from people who have been scammed are from newbies who usually post once or twice and disappear.

Nothing you have posted here in news worthy, and I see no reason to stroke your ego by engaging in a dialogue.

I didn't know who was going to respond when I posted. It makes sense that the regulars would be wise to the ins and outs of this stuff though. You continue to misunderstand me. I am not looking for an ego boost.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I disagree - there was not a single original thought in the post. Anyone who reads about scams on TUG could have written the same thing.



Yes, he knows...

Don't feed the troll...

It may not be original thoughts but its constructed too well for it not to be by someone who is intimate with the process IMHO.

 

[bogey21]

Nothing you have posted here in news worthy, and I see no reason to stroke your ego by engaging in a dialogue.

I don't agree. Knowledge is indispensable. Any thing new we pick up from the Scammer's posts has a value, more to some, less to others, but a value nonetheless.

George

 

[Beefnot]

It may not be original thoughts but its constructed too well for it not to be by someone who is intimate with the process IMHO.

I don't agree. Knowledge is indispensable. Any thing new we pick up from the Scammer's posts has a value, more to some, less to others, but a value nonetheless.

George

Agreed. Insider and valuable, albeit disturbing.