[2012] Help end my sleepless nights - did I get scammed?

[pacodemountainside]

Doesn't sound good, but if this is the case, you'd better get busy reserving those bonus weeks in the best resorts and the best holiday (school break and Summer) weeks and get to renting them. You have much to learn and to pay down your balance, and a short time to do it.

We wish you well. You can always try to get Westgate to cancel your sale due to hardship, but they aren't noted for empathy. Sorry, but if only you had taken that 'As is, Where is' seriously.

We can't know your other financial details, but timeshares usually are discharged in bankruptcy.

Jim

With you on bankruptcy!

Been to many sales pitches with different developers and virtually all bonus/gift weeks had severe restrictions or were through II or RCI and illegal to rent.

There is no way developers who have been selling resorts for several years can give away 7 weeks to most purchasers even if suckers pay MF. There are only 52.1667 intervals in a year!

$15K for EOY 1 BR has to set some kind of record.

 

[tamartinez2003]

The Reef

SO my best friend and I got caught in this scam yesterday. Apparently they have changed a few things in their pitch and now they are saying the whole thing ISN'T a time share at all, its an investment, because for every week you give them, they can rent out to people coming to look at real estate and so for every week we give them, we get our 2,000. They are also now saying that this is good for them because its a tax shelter so in return for helping them out, that is how they can afford to give us our kick back.

They make you sign a waiver that says you give up your right to cancel in the proceeding five days starting the next business day ( which is illegal as far as I can tell from other websites to do so this is the fraud) and it is also misrepresenting the process as an investment not as a time share, which is also in my opinion the fraud part.

The good news maybe, in our case, is we found this forum yesterday before the end of the day, and sent an email to the two people listed to cancel our membership and contract, stating it was the same day we signe dthe contract and by their own admission we only had "today". Today we are pulling together our certified mail package to send and submit a formal claim to profeco in hopes that we may have hit some magic window.

SOme of the same people described in some of the otehr complaints around are still in the business, but their scam I thinkis to do some research on you befor eyou even show up and frame their story to you to make you feel like you have a connection to them, through similar life experiences, hometowns, whatever, which make you open up, then they are trained to profile you even more and then hook you via simplythe time it takes to do the "90 minute" presentation.

ALso, I believe they google you and totally play to your weaknesses, these people are expert at playing people as fools, even as far as playing like the dumb new guy on the block to make you think you are smart one and they exploit that to their advantage.

Any rate we have both concelled our credit cards, blocked the Reef from future charges, and have informed our cc compaines our intent to dispute the charges, of which in both cases they will walk us through the process.

I am hopeful we were "lucky" and in the nick of time to be able to cancel our transactions and contract

 

[Karen G]

The good news maybe, in our case, is we found this forum yesterday before the end of the day, and sent an email to the two people listed to cancel our membership and contract, stating it was the same day we signe dthe contract and by their own admission we only had "today". Today we are pulling together our certified mail package to send and submit a formal claim to profeco in hopes that we may have hit some magic window.

Congratulations on finding out the truth in time and welcome to TUG. According to Mexican law you have five business days to cancel your contract--no matter what the salesman tells you. But, you should cancel in writing with some kind of proof from the post office of the date you mailed it. Let us know how it all ends up.

 

[theo]

A good point and worth repeating...

According to Mexican law you have five business days to cancel your contract--no matter what the salesman tells you. But, you should cancel in writing with some kind of proof from the post office of the date you mailed it. Let us know how it all ends up.

Merely cancelling the credit cards which were used in making the purchase deposit is both irrelevant and inadequate in terms of rescinding the actual contract itself.

As Karen has astutely noted, you must also exercise, in writing, your legal right to formally cancel the contract within the 5 business days provided to you by law. Please understand very clearly that dealing only with the credit cards used for the deposit does not in any way address or cancel the contract itself. You must also address the contract rescission, separately and in writing --- and the clock is ticking...

 

[Rent_Share]

Merely cancelling the credit cards which were used in making the purchase deposit is both irrelevant and inadequate in terms of rescinding the actual contract itself.

As Karen has astutely noted, you must also exercise, in writing, your legal right to formally cancel the contract within the 5 business days provided to you by law. Please understand very clearly that dealing only with the credit cards used for the deposit does not in any way address or cancel the contract itself. You must also address the contract rescission, separately and in writing --- and the clock is ticking...

Would it make sense to include a copy to Profeco. Including the illegal waiver ?

 

[Passepartout]

Would it make sense to include a copy to Profeco. Including the illegal waiver ?

Probably wouldn't hurt, but I'd think you would want to have a file opened at Profeco beforehand. Otherwise they wouldn't know what to do with an unsolicited letter. You know it's illegal to tell a buyer there is no right of rescission, I know it's illegal, the shyster salesweasels know it's illegal, Profeco knows it's illegal. The only party with some doubt that might delay them from rescinding longer than 5 days is the buyer.

To me, certainly a casual observer from the sidelines, Profeco looks like a toothless agency. Why they can't force these timeshare salesrooms to abide by their country's laws is beyond me. Either they are corrupt (no surprise), there are no penalties, or there are just so many salesrooms that it's like playing 'Whack-a-Mole'.

Jim

 

[pacodemountainside]

Probably wouldn't hurt, but I'd think you would want to have a file opened at Profeco beforehand. Otherwise they wouldn't know what to do with an unsolicited letter. You know it's illegal to tell a buyer there is no right of rescission, I know it's illegal, the shyster salesweasels know it's illegal, Profeco knows it's illegal. The only party with some doubt that might delay them from rescinding longer than 5 days is the buyer.

To me, certainly a casual observer from the sidelines, Profeco looks like a toothless agency. Why they can't force these timeshare salesrooms to abide by their country's laws is beyond me. Either they are corrupt (no surprise), there are no penalties, or there are just so many salesrooms that it's like playing 'Whack-a-Mole'.

Jim

I think it is more like "do not call list". Limited funding only allows going after worst offenders.

Ill-eagle better applies to sick bird.

Interested in how one whacks a mole. Know I used to use a hose and flood them and gophers. Does one use baseball bat, bicycle chain, golf club, broom stick, wine bottle, tennis racquet, etc.? Maybe you could create a smiley to clarify.

For now I will stick with ye olde horse.:deadhorse:

 

[tamartinez2003]

time share scam

SO we have returned from Mexico today, but, while still in Mexico, we did contact Profeco( the next day after signing the contract), as well as copied them on all of our emails and contacts with The Reef (same day as well). We also sent our request via registered mail, received notification that it was received, including a scan of the name and signature of the person who signed for it. We also sent a registered mail copy to the "legal representative" that signed all the forms there, and received notice from Profeco, that indeed, we have done what was needed to now send our credit card companies on the dispute track. We called daily, emailed daily( mostly just to document our efforts with a date and time stamp), and now I am emailing directly the sales and group sales emails, to try and get someone to respond. We were unable to get back to the Reef and go in person to demand our money refunded and to cancel the contract, simply due to time and our vacation plans. So far, we have yet to receive any response from anyone.

Thanks for all the feedback, I'll keep folks posted on how this ends up, it seems we'll be in the fight for a month or so based on other's experience, but we are hopeful that we have established the correct process and can work towards a succesful solution. It doesn't make us feel any less embarrassed, but also, realize that when dealing with crooks who obviously change their game to stay ahead of the curve, you almost have to get burned to realize exactly what is happening in the moment. I am also convinced that prior to meeting with them, they had googled and searched for info on us, as there were too many coincidences between our sales person and us, which if you are a trusting person, disarms you so you think there is some connection between this person, and then they exploit that and hook you before you even know what you have done. AT one point I even pulled out my tablet to search and as I look back on it, our sales person quickly distracted me by asking to take a look at my version of the Ipad...I didn't even realize what happened until much later.

Anyhow, hopefully this lesson is one that ends with a full refund and a cancelled contract!

The good news, while this demonstrated the seedy side of PDC/Mexico, we also experienced the good side, with some amazing experiences after this one that reminded us to not let one rotten apple ruin the whole tree, I may not go back to Mexico for a long while, but all in all the place is beautiful and it was a trip with adventures planned and unplanned, and I guess that's what life is about anyways!

 

[tamartinez2003]

timeshare scam update

Well, as per a phone conversation this morning with Laura of the Reef, she informed us that, because we were with in our 5 day period, so our money will be refunded (it will take up to two weeks to post to our credit cards) and they have cancelled our contract and we should receive the cancellation in the mail to sign shortly. I found it funny they seemed put out that they had to do this, and even tried to make me feel bad about it, HAH. But ultimately agreed "we were with in our five day window"- which tells me, they know exactly what they're doing is wrong!


Anyhow, we are grateful that we have received this notice and will now keep our fingers crossed that this all resolves itself as it appears it will.

I want to thank everyone on this discussion forum, past victims especially, for posting your experiences and your advice, and providing the exact guidance necessary to end this night mare. This discussion forum basically saved our behinds and gave us "someone" to turn to in a moment of sincere despair and let us know we were not alone.It also reminds us that there are really good people out there to make up for the crummy ones, and I hope if anyone else finds themselves in this predicament, they are willing to reach out for help and I know we'll be willing to lend the next hand. We'll keep you posted once we receive all the finalized paperwork etc.


Lessons we learned that we wish to share for the next person to get scammed:
1. Act Quickly on your end- cancel credit cards, send emails, call- whatever to notify of your intent to cancel and ask for refund. Simply to document your decision, as soon as you can or realize what happened.
2. Get over your embarrassment and do what is necessary to get your money and life back( including go back to the "scene of the crime" if at all possible and do this all in person!)
3. Document everything, including any memory of how things transpired during the transaction. Date and time any calls you made, emails you sent, letters sent and make sure you get receipts for any money you spent on anything dealing with the resolution. Even if its on the back of a napkin, you need to have documentation and you can always transfer it later into a spreadsheet if needed, just keep originals of everything!!!
4. Contact Profeco asap.
5. If it seems too good to be true...it IS!
6. Protect yourself by being savvy and smart about "dangers" of the places you plan to travel. (one quick search the night before on the Reef would have alarmed us to know what we were in store for and probably we would have cancelled)
7. Use all and every resource you can find to help you
8. Don't be afraid to pester and bug until you get the response you deserve.
9. Don't for a minute think these people care about you- they only care about making a quick buck of your hard earned money, so don't give it to them for any reason! No future vacation is worth it!
10. Don't give up or give in!

there are a ton more, but these are the main ones!

 

[ronandbarb]

Did she actually get money back?? or was it promised to get it back??


I am seeing this all way too late! we bought into the whole process in March of 2012. RMS wa suppose to sell a time share for us that would pay for reef, All was suppose to be complete at 6 months, then they asked for extension. Is all lost here too??

The reef playacar seems to get good reveiws.

 

[morchu.r]

Great news, the refunds were posted to our two credit card companies!! In speaking with the credit card companies, they had attempted to contact the resort, but did not get a return call. They actually DENIED our dispute as we had signed a contract. I am not sure why the Reef decided to allow us to cancel our request, but it was not a result of the credit cards company's contact, unless just their attempt to contact them scared them enough to cancel....

Regardless, we received the credit and future purchases have been blocked.

Hey Paffel22 We are going through the same problem and have found your forum helpful but could we maybe get in contact somehow, or could you tell us how you've managed to get your money back? We are new to this and would really appreciate it if you could help us out.

 

[Passepartout]

Hey Paffel22 We are going through the same problem and have found your forum helpful but could we maybe get in contact somehow, or could you tell us how you've managed to get your money back? We are new to this and would really appreciate it if you could help us out.

Paffel22 has not been back to TUG since last August. You might try clicking on the blue username and sending paffel22 an email.

Best wishes for a successful outcome. We wish you well.

 

[paulos]

the reef playa

Apparantly The Reef time share sales haven't changed much. We have just returned from Mexico and unfortunately it has been 9 days since we were talked into buying 7 weeks per year of "exchangable, rentable" weeks for 25 years. We have given a $ 5500 deposit with the balance payable soon.
After having read of the complications and difficulty with actualy using or being paid for the weeks we have realized we were not presented with the true facts about what we were getting into and have tried to talk to the resort but not been able to get results over the phone so far. I have sent an email to the Company "Royal Diamond Resorts" yesterday asking to recind the aggreement and return our deposit. Hopefully we will get a response soon.
Any More advice would be appreciated.

 

[theo]

Wrong approach...

<snip> We have just returned from Mexico and unfortunately it has been 9 days since we were talked into buying 7 weeks per year of "exchangable, rentable" weeks for 25 years. We have given a $ 5500 deposit with the balance payable soon.
After having read of the complications and difficulty with actualy using or being paid for the weeks we have realized we were not presented with the true facts about what we were getting into and have tried to talk to the resort but not been able to get results over the phone so far. I have sent an email to the Company "Royal Diamond Resorts" yesterday asking to recind the agreement and return our deposit. Hopefully we will get a response soon.
Any More advice would be appreciated.

My understanding is that Mexican law allows 5 business days for the cancellation / rescission of a contract.
If you purchased 9 days ago, it seems that you may already be too late to exercise your right of rescission. Nonetheless, I'd strongly suggest getting a signed cancellation request sent off in writing, by mail, obtaining proof of postmark date ASAP, to request cancellation.

E-mails and phone calls are entirely insufficient and inadequate forms of notification to initiate cancellation, even within the allowed rescission period. These legally insufficient forms of communication (along with smoke signals and / or a note sent by carrier pigeon) are essentially just a waste of your time and effort.

Good luck --- I suspect that you're going to need a whole lot of it at this seemingly "too late" date.

P.S. Since you have apprently passed the rescisssion deadline already, if you truly feel that you can credibly articulate and document overt misrepresentation or fraud by the seller (...you will need to have more to put on the table than just "buyer's remorse"...), you can always attempt to invoke the assistance of PROFECO in an effort to invalidate the contract (conduct a search on PROFECO for contact info and other details).

 

[Mfloto]

The Reef Sharks

We had the same experience first of Feb. we read these messages that night and immediately sent an email to the Reef stating we were exercising our right to rescind. The next day we walked in and personally told the little weasels in person. They said they had received our email and that by the time we got back to our resort we would have an email stating that our contract had been undone. Surprise!! No email. The next day we went back in with a handwritten letter that I had made two copies of. I made them sign one of them and again we were assured that we had nothing to worry about. Might I say this whole thing ruined the last 2 days of our vacation. When we got back I followed up with a registered letter to them and dispute through the CC company. A week later we got emails from Lloydshare, and a week ago we got emails from the resort with our usernames etc. Then in the last 3 days I have had several voicemails from a guy named George wanting to finalize my timeshare trade in. Oh it was all undone alright what a bunch of crooks. The good part is my credit card dispute did get my deposit back and I have changed my CC numbers so they can't make any more charges. Also my timeshare company know not to deal with them on the trade in. The good part is we have learned that the $200 and the Kahlua are not worth it....stay FAR FAR AWAY from timeshare presentations.......we bought the one we have from a resale for really cheap and it has been great. It was the line about making $2000 per week that got us. Silly us for believing that crap!! I hope I don't have to fight them anymore on this but who knows. Thank you everyone for the posts that saved us.....

 

[siesta]

For future readers of this thread listen up. Emailing the resort, telling the staff in person, etc. is not an effective mode of cancellation. You need to follow the rescission instructions exactly, which is often certified mail to a specific address/department.

Again, Follow the rescission instructions in your paperwork to a T

 

[jonsie]

The Reef

Just wanted to say that after reading all the posts on Time Shares, I freaked, and did call the companies, both GDS Partners as well as several staff at the Reff Resort. Ours is just a test drive for five year but everyone so far has been helpful. GDS is the company that is overseeing the sale of our time share and they are apparently a licensed and bonded company. Still very shaky on this part. The Reef is a member of Royal Diamond Resorts in which we put 4000 down to get into a 5 year test drive. The contract states that GDS will pay us 2000 per unit per year if we do not use these units. So we are expecting to get 4000 back this year, seemed like a no-brainer to me, but also too good to be true. Dont know yet. We also have to pay between 200 and 999 for up to 6 people to stay at an " all inclusive". Im sure it wont be as wonderful as they made it out to be, but so far, the companies that I have been dealing with have answered my calls, my questions, and have had all the right information. I intend to keep going until they don't do something they have promised, then I will fight them. I have had a lawyer look over the documents and they appear to be standard documents that cover clearly what services they are supposed to offer. I Will update the site on how it goes. If for nothing else to help out those who are being scamed or to pave the way for new and legitimate companies to find a better way to help people travel. Thanks for all of you out there on this site providing up to date information on this kind of thing.

 

[rrsafety]

Just wanted to say that after reading all the posts on Time Shares, I freaked, and did call the companies, both GDS Partners as well as several staff at the Reff Resort. Ours is just a test drive for five year but everyone so far has been helpful. GDS is the company that is overseeing the sale of our time share and they are apparently a licensed and bonded company. Still very shaky on this part. The Reef is a member of Royal Diamond Resorts in which we put 4000 down to get into a 5 year test drive. The contract states that GDS will pay us 2000 per unit per year if we do not use these units. So we are expecting to get 4000 back this year, seemed like a no-brainer to me, but also too good to be true. Dont know yet. We also have to pay between 200 and 999 for up to 6 people to stay at an " all inclusive". Im sure it wont be as wonderful as they made it out to be, but so far, the companies that I have been dealing with have answered my calls, my questions, and have had all the right information. I intend to keep going until they don't do something they have promised, then I will fight them. I have had a lawyer look over the documents and they appear to be standard documents that cover clearly what services they are supposed to offer. I Will update the site on how it goes. If for nothing else to help out those who are being scamed or to pave the way for new and legitimate companies to find a better way to help people travel. Thanks for all of you out there on this site providing up to date information on this kind of thing.

This sounds like a NIGHTMARE.

 

[Zycie84]

Just wanted to say that after reading all the posts on Time Shares, I freaked, and did call the companies, both GDS Partners as well as several staff at the Reff Resort. Ours is just a test drive for five year but everyone so far has been helpful. GDS is the company that is overseeing the sale of our time share and they are apparently a licensed and bonded company. Still very shaky on this part. The Reef is a member of Royal Diamond Resorts in which we put 4000 down to get into a 5 year test drive. The contract states that GDS will pay us 2000 per unit per year if we do not use these units. So we are expecting to get 4000 back this year, seemed like a no-brainer to me, but also too good to be true. Dont know yet. We also have to pay between 200 and 999 for up to 6 people to stay at an " all inclusive". Im sure it wont be as wonderful as they made it out to be, but so far, the companies that I have been dealing with have answered my calls, my questions, and have had all the right information. I intend to keep going until they don't do something they have promised, then I will fight them. I have had a lawyer look over the documents and they appear to be standard documents that cover clearly what services they are supposed to offer. I Will update the site on how it goes. If for nothing else to help out those who are being scamed or to pave the way for new and legitimate companies to find a better way to help people travel. Thanks for all of you out there on this site providing up to date information on this kind of thing.

Any chance I can get the numbers you called? Today is our 5th day and IM FREAKING OUT!! Thankfully we only paid $1,000 for 6 weeks but I still want out. Help!

 

[Passepartout]

DO NOT CALL! Any contact by phone will only result in runaround to delay you past the deadline to rescind. Follow the rescission instructions in your packet. If that was not included (they don't make the instructions easy to find), send a simple letter ( I/ We wish to cancel contract # XXXXXX dated 5/XX/2013. Signed (buyers-date). Send it certified w/return receipt dated TODAY, day 5. Preferably send to the business office, not the sales floor.

Oops, i just saw that the 5th day was 2days ago. Hope you got it sent and didn't wait or call.

Regards.