[2012] Help end my sleepless nights - did I get scammed?

[Passepartout]

Can't hurt. Might help. It sort of depends on how important a good credit rating is to you. Worst case, they turn you over to collections and smear your credit score. Today, with the number of voluntary foreclosures in REAL real estate, how much weight will be put on a timeshare outfit's bad report. It's anyone's guess. It's really the only weapon they have. But it might cost you what you already paid them.

Even late, I'd send a rescission letter certified and let them know that you are not giving them any more. Cancel whatever credit cards they have on you and change the numbers.

Play hardball with them, because they will take whatever you offer them. If you threaten Profeco, be sure to enlist Profeco.

Jim

 

[KAPS]

Thanks, we've sent them an email with our rescinding request...we have also emailed Profeco with an official complaint.

If you know of anything else we should be doing, we appreciate the help.

Thanks
KAPS

 

[momeason]

Thanks, we've sent them an email with our rescinding request...we have also emailed Profeco with an official complaint.

If you know of anything else we should be doing, we appreciate the help.

Thanks
KAPS

If you put it on a credit card, file a fraud dispute.

 

[theo]

A suggestion...

Do you think it would be wise to send them another email informing them that we will be following up the issue with Profeco and posting on timeshare websites such as TUG?

I'd be certain to also send everything you submit as hard copy, signed, written material by "snail mail", retaining photocopies thereof.

Email can (and very well might) be just ignored, or its' receipt later denied. Moreover, there is no basis for presuming its' receipt or review; your email may very well just get deflected by a spam filter at the recipient end and then never actually seen at all, by anyone. In short, email communication alone is both weak and inadequate for rescission; it simply does not cut it as your sole effort and course of action to try to cancel.

 

[Passepartout]

Thanks, we've sent them an email with our rescinding request...we have also emailed Profeco with an official complaint.

We always suggest you send rescission letters certified- return receipt requested. It has more 'weight' than email. It can't be denied or simply blown off. Also file a fraud dispute with your credit card if you used one.

You appear to be treating this too lightly from the beginning. 'Course it's your money, so you can spend it as you wish. The Mexican sharks will help you out with that.

Jim

 

[Karen G]

Passpartout,

We saw that SandyM was successful in getting her money refunded after the rescinding period... Do you think it would be wise to send them another email informing them that we will be following up the issue with Profeco and posting on timeshare websites such as TUG?

Thanks again.

Contact Profeco. Here is the linkfor their website.

You can certainly post your experience on TUG and elsewhere. Sometimes that will get their attention, but your best bet is to contact Profeco and dispute the charges on your credit card.

 

[paffel22]

Great news, the refunds were posted to our two credit card companies!! In speaking with the credit card companies, they had attempted to contact the resort, but did not get a return call. They actually DENIED our dispute as we had signed a contract. I am not sure why the Reef decided to allow us to cancel our request, but it was not a result of the credit cards company's contact, unless just their attempt to contact them scared them enough to cancel....

Regardless, we received the credit and future purchases have been blocked.

 

[Karen G]

Great news, the refunds were posted to our two credit card companies!!

Congratulations! That's wonderful news.

 

[Htoo0]

Glad it worked out.

 

[rrlongwell]

Great news, the refunds were posted to our two credit card companies!! In speaking with the credit card companies, they had attempted to contact the resort, but did not get a return call. They actually DENIED our dispute as we had signed a contract. I am not sure why the Reef decided to allow us to cancel our request, but it was not a result of the credit cards company's contact, unless just their attempt to contact them scared them enough to cancel....

Regardless, we received the credit and future purchases have been blocked.

The fact that the credit card company made a refund does not eliminate the issue of the contract. I would still try and get written confirmation that the other party to the contract has recended it.

 

[theo]

An excellent point...

The fact that the credit card company made a refund does not eliminate the issue of the contract. I would still try and get written confirmation that the other party to the contract has recended it.

Absolutely. The execution of a lawful contract is an entirely separate and distinct matter from that of the particular means by which an initial "deposit" may have been paid at the time of contract execution.

IMnsHO, it would be a big mistake to simply assume that the credit card issuer's compliance with a request for a cancellation of the "deposit" charge necessarily means that the buyer won't still have to do separate battle with the other party regarding the contract itself, which was lawfully and voluntarily executed...

P.S. As Yogi Berra has astutely observed, "It ain't over 'til it's over".

 

[paffel22]

To clarify, the credit card company did not issue a refund. The Reef refunded our deposit to the credit card company. The credit card company had denied our dispute because we signed a contract.

We actually received a written letter from the Reef saying that they cancelled our contract and were refunding our money... Because we received written notification that the Reef cancelled our contract and was issuing a refund, the credit card company said they could go after them if they didn't comply. We blocked the Reef from making future charges and hopefully this is all behind us.

 

[craigtug]

Contact paffel22 who started this post and follow their process, it worked for them after the rescission period

 

[Karen G]

I am attempting to contact Profeco

From the Profeco website:

To learn more about vacation ownership in Mexico you can visit any Profeco office, or contact us at +52 (55) 5568-8722.
If you want to submit a complaint send an email to extranjeros@profeco.gob.mx, or visit the Mexican Embassy or the Mexican Consulate nearest to your home. All our services are free.
For tourist information, you can also call the toll-free call center in Mexico of the Ministry of Tourism: 01-800-903-9200.

Others have reported that calling Profeco helped speed things up.

 

[tomcoo]

FYIs for you

Some FYIs for you:

You did not say which credit card company, some (Chase I believe) have a 10 day cancelation policy i.e. if you dispute it within 10 days they will reverse the charges.

Credit card companies make a lot of money off these TS scams so they may be very polite but they are not your friend.

I would suggest you get a copy of the Mexican Federal Consumer Protection Laws. Study the parts applicable to TS. Get a copy of the official registered contract, it will be in Spanish. TS contracts are adhesion contracts and have to be registered with Profeco. Profeco can help you. Try to get a word doc so you can run it through translator software. Then compare it to your English contract to see if there are any differences. Any differences in the text that are detrimental to the consumer are a violation of Article 86 and the contract is "null and void". Your CC should cave in at this point. If not file arbitration against them. There is no binding contract, the 5 days, 10 days whatever dosen’t matter the contract is illegal and it is fraud, a criminal offense.

Good luck.

 

[weston8704]

HELP!! Westgate Resale TS

Hi all,
Just joined the forum! My wife and I were recently duped into buying a timeshare with Westgate Resorts at the Planet Hollywood Towers, which is now actually the Elara Hitlon Grand Vacations...they didnt mention that during the sales pitch. When we arrived at the sales office apparently there was some mix up and they thought we were already owners and were just looking to upgrade. Once we explained that we were not and really just wanted the $50 gift card and free dinner that was promised they apologized and said they would send us on our way. Soon after the "manager" came over and after a few minutes said that since we were in the system as owners she could offer us a "foreclosed" unit at the PH Towers for a fraction of the cost of a new unit. The long and short of it was they made it sound like the greatest "investment" we could make and after renting the unit out twice we would more than pay off the note and could trade our one week for two weeks at any resort in the world! My wife was a little hesitant and asked if we could cancel the contract if we got home and decided we didnt want it. She just shook her head and said she had Never been asked that before and diverted to another topic....

Well we bought it and once we got home we felt insane and stupid and started doing some research to see if we could in fact cancel. We found out about NRS 119A.410 and followed the instructions to the T, sending a cancelation notice certified mail to all three addresses listed on our contract. Once I received confirmation that the notice was received, 3 days after purchase, I called to confirm the next steps. The rep explained that since this was a resale I had no right to cancel. It was like a "used car" she said with no warranty. She quoted the following point of our contract:

2. Agreement to Sell and Purchase - In accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions hereof, on the date of Closing (as hereinafter defined), Sellers agrees to sell the Property to Buyer and Buyer agrees to purchase the Property from Seller, "As-Is, Where-Is," without representation or warranty.

Does this mean we can't cancel??? Any help would be Much appreciated!

 

[pacodemountainside]

You have been had by one of the best if not best scammers this side of Mexican border. Wastegate, tower of terrors and sea gull are beyond comprehension!

Since you bought from Developer should not make any difference as ALL Intervals, rooms, units are well used at PH. While you get a deed your usage is floating unless week 51 or 52.

The catch maybe, since Hilton took over from Westgate, Westgate is now functioning as a reseller/broker as they no longer own complex.

Hilton has made clear they are not going to bail out Westgaters.

Will leave to legal beagles here to sort out!

 

[Passepartout]

2. Agreement to Sell and Purchase - In accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions hereof, on the date of Closing (as hereinafter defined), Sellers agrees to sell the Property to Buyer and Buyer agrees to purchase the Property from Seller, "As-Is, Where-Is," without representation or warranty.

Does this mean we can't cancel??? Any help would be Much appreciated!

This just came up a month or so ago. Unfortunately, that's what it means. In Nevada, the right of rescission does not extend to resales. You, my friend, are new owners. The only value there is in this is in it's use and in exchange power.

Stick around and learn how to best use your new purchase. You will hear much derogatory comment about the company you bought from. Most of it true and come by honestly. They have little to no honor and will squeeze you for every nickel they can.

As I see it, there is a slim chance that you may have saved some of those pieces of paper where the salesweasel convinced you of this wonderful investment that an attorney might be able to prove fraud, but they usually make sure to never let you away with those.

Best wishes, and Welcome to TUG. You're among friends here.

Jim

 

[weston8704]

Passepartout - That's very disheartening...Unfortunately they didn't give us any of the paperwork. I have been reading every word of the Nevada law regarding timeshares and it doesn't mention anything about cancelation of a resale...
Can you tell me about how this same issue came up before? Was it on this forum?

 

[Passepartout]

Here's the thread about this. http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170963&highlight=nevada+rescission See especially #14 & #20. Wish I had better news for you.

So, if I may be so bold, how much did you pay for this 'bargain?' If I might make another suggestion, you saw value in this purchase, and lots of people DID pay full retail, which you apparently didn't, so it COULD be much worse.

Now might be a good time to visit the (All Other Systems) Westgate Forum. Learn how to use what you bought. Check out the other resorts in the 'Westgate family' that you can exchange into without cost. Also become familiar with the exchange company it exchanges with (RCI? or II?). Find out it's trading value and start examining potential vacaions you can parlay this into. When you get thinking about exchanging, I'd suggest you invest- well, OK, spend $15 to actually join TUG. That gives you access to all the thousands of reviews by TUGgers of resorts worldwide and gets rid of that pesky 'Guest' designation below your username.

Jim

 

[weston8704]

We bought the timeshare for close to $15,000. $1500 on our credit card and financed the rest. I don't even think this is still a Westgate property. The Planet Hollywood Towers were sold to Hilton Grand Vacations so I may not even be able to exchange within the Westgate "family"...it doesnt show up on their website

We went through a Westgate sales office, so it wasn't a third party reseller. I don't know if that has any bearing on the law...

We were told by our sales rep that our one week, every two years, could be exchanged for 2 weeks at any other resort of lower rank becuase ours was a "7 star", bogus...it only goes up to 5, and the best you could buy. She also said that if we didn't use our week it would roll over to the next year and we would have two weeks.

Part of the "promotion" for buying that day was we got 7 getaway vacations. What got me to buy was he telling us we could rent out our one week, plus our 7 getaway weeks. Of course all I saw was $$ and figured I could use the proceeds from those rentals to pay off the note and the bi-yearly maintenance fee.

If that isn't true then I just can't afford it...

 

[TheWizz]

We bought the timeshare for close to $15,000. $1500 on our credit card and financed the rest. I don't even think this is still a Westgate property. The Planet Hollywood Towers were sold to Hilton Grand Vacations so I may not even be able to exchange within the Westgate "family"...it doesnt show up on their website

We went through a Westgate sales office, so it wasn't a third party reseller. I don't know if that has any bearing on the law...

We were told by our sales rep that our one week, every two years, could be exchanged for 2 weeks at any other resort of lower rank becuase ours was a "7 star", bogus...it only goes up to 5, and the best you could buy. She also said that if we didn't use our week it would roll over to the next year and we would have two weeks.

Part of the "promotion" for buying that day was we got 7 getaway vacations. What got me to buy was he telling us we could rent out our one week, plus our 7 getaway weeks. Of course all I saw was $$ and figured I could use the proceeds from those rentals to pay off the note and the bi-yearly maintenance fee.

If that isn't true then I just can't afford it...

If you have a chance later on to "convert" your Wastegate TS unit to a HGVC TS unit for a reasonable conversion fee (I haven't heard if this will be offered or for how much - just speculating), I would consider it. The HGVC "family" (IMnsHO) is a much better system to be associated with vs. Wastegate. It may be a year or more before HGVC actually gets around to offering such options... Good luck and welcome to TUG.

 

[Passepartout]

Part of the "promotion" for buying that day was we got 7 getaway vacations. What got me to buy was he telling us we could rent out our one week, plus our 7 getaway weeks. Of course all I saw was $$ and figured I could use the proceeds from those rentals to pay off the note and the bi-yearly maintenance fee.

If that isn't true then I just can't afford it...

Doesn't sound good, but if this is the case, you'd better get busy reserving those bonus weeks in the best resorts and the best holiday (school break and Summer) weeks and get to renting them. You have much to learn and to pay down your balance, and a short time to do it.

We wish you well. You can always try to get Westgate to cancel your sale due to hardship, but they aren't noted for empathy. Sorry, but if only you had taken that 'As is, Where is' seriously.

We can't know your other financial details, but timeshares usually are discharged in bankruptcy.

Jim

 

[rrsafety]

We bought the timeshare for close to $15,000....

We were told by our sales rep that our one week, every two years, c

Just to be clear on costs. This is $15k for a 'every other year', not every year?

 

[weston8704]

Thank you all for your comments and help.

My rental is one week every other year.