[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

J's Garage · Dec 28, 2017

How do we get this back in front of the judge's eyes? Either directly or through the courts.

Ultimate_Betrayal · Dec 28, 2017

Hi J's Garage

This was not easy to find on the internet but I found a fax number # which is 780-427-4348

Suggest providing a basic overview detailing your concern (how have you been coerced and/or other facts you feel are relevant, why does this need to be address quickly, and negative impact to you) along with any relevant supporting documentation that supports your statements.

Including the following at the top will help the court registry identify the Judge and proper case ID:

Provincial Court of Alberta Edmonton
Northmont Resort Properties Ltd. v. Reid, 2017 ABPC 249
Registry Action Number: P1490304333
Date: October 11, 2017
Decision of the Honorable Judge L.D. Young

Spark1 · Dec 28, 2017

NotWhatIPaidFor said:
I agree Spark1. Lawyer has to consult with each of us before signing, it has to be a "fantastic" deal to not proceed to the Petition. There's no deal if we're simply getting a discount, even a big discount on all the fees and charges and interest that we legally never should have paid regardless. We fought this not to pay these crooks these made up capital costs that were not seriously to be used for the resort anyways...btw where did those fees go that people already paid? Exactly.

Why in the world would anyone accept a deal that isn't substantially below the original cost of their fabricated cancellation fee? I mean, after years of this, paying the legal fees, we're not going to pony up and line these crook's pockets. Geldert assured the group what deal he was going to get or no deal at all before this negotiation. He said we could trust him. We'll find out pretty soon.

Scammed! · Dec 28, 2017

Ultimate_Betrayal said:
Hi J's Garage

This was not easy to find on the internet but I found a fax number # which is 780-427-4348

Suggest providing a basic overview detailing your concern (how have you been coerced and/or other facts you feel are relevant, why does this need to be address quickly, and negative impact to you) along with any relevant supporting documentation that supports your statements.

Including the following at the top will help the court registry identify the Judge and proper case ID:

Provincial Court of Alberta Edmonton
Northmont Resort Properties Ltd. v. Reid, 2017 ABPC 249
Registry Action Number: P1490304333
Date: October 11, 2017
Decision of the Honorable Judge L.D. Young

I think we should all go back to The Honourable Judge L.D. Young. Its a start....we can't give up!

servemeout · Dec 28, 2017

Just got our "love letter" from the non resort. The interest on the RPF is now over $4,500. The letter states that they are ready to begin the enforcement process. Any guesses on how long that will take? The legal system is presently overloaded. The court directed that every effort be made to resolve this issue. "the necessity of further judicial intervention. If that does not occur, then counsel are to contact the trial co-ordinator to obtain a date to appear before me." She instructed that every reasonable effort be made, and she specifically mentioned the issue of interest. Every one should review the conclusion to the decision in the Alberta case.

Petus@18 · Dec 28, 2017

J's Garage said:
How do we get this back in front of the judge's eyes? Either directly or through the courts.

We can send emails to the Ministers of Justice and Solicitor General of Canada, Alberta and BC. Their addresses can be found in the web. Include the deadline we have been given quoting some information we received from the lawyer and query:

Why our justice system grants judgement/legal power to Northmont/Mr. Wankel so they are free to do whatever they wish and can charge every single leaseholder whatever amount they feel like charging. Does the Trustee have the right to petition the Supreme Court and bypass our Lease Contracts? State that this is some kind of senior abuse as the majority of the leaseholders are seniors depending only of their pensions, and that this sort of abuse cannot be tolerated/allowed in Canada. We have rights and we should not be treated like criminals.

Lets plead for their help by reviewing the history of Northmont et al and our case, which is similar to other cases where this people have done the same; bring the fact that a settlement was reached without our input and the deadline is approaching soon.

Yes, they have already ruined our winter holidays with their news, including Xmas with our families. We should not let them destroy our lives!

(We may even want to cc the Prime Minister, I think that it is time for him to know that this type of extortions are allowed and blessed by the courts in Canada).

Palms to pines · Dec 28, 2017

I just feel duped.We had a contract with Fairmont resorts from 1998’ paid our maintenance fees faithfully and used the resort, exchanged, no complaints. The pay to go or pay to stay came as a complete shock. Was our timeshare so valueless we had to pay thousands of dollars to be rid of it? Many more issues followed and then - a lawyer willing to point out all of our grievances in open court. We didn’t know who found him but we signed on.We had faith in the contract we signed. But instead he does a “ test case”. Loses. Case drags on . He asks us to write yelp reviews, and the case drags on. Tells us to write letters to Northmont regarding their poor management. Nothing comes of that. Jeke goes on and on, cash register is ringing. Then, the Legacy for Life people can save the day, stop the realignment because we are “owners! Write another letter stating our rights . Goes nowhere, the case drags on.He says he has meetings set up with the press - never happens . He tells us the court will force NM to pay maintenance fees , so, glad to hear that. They own half the resort. Nope, another dead horse and the case drags on. Also informs us that people cancel contacts with Mountainside for a few hundred dollars.Well, we are staying in the race. .Pays a fortune for research and affidavits but doesn’t follow the procedure necessary to get it admitted. Nope, now our contracts are all identical to Jeke and he rode that nag right to the finish line. The case drags on. Then wow, the option plan. MG tells me the group has “ significant legal and moral currency” He has an aggressive plan for the coming petition. Has laid the groundwork for a class action. Instead, he cancels the petition, caves into Northmont and tells me we have no moral currency! He tells me he has made a settlement, not a deal. No kidding. I can’t see that having legal representation helped us at all.

Punter · Dec 28, 2017

A NOTE TO FULLY PAID OWNERS IN GOOD STANDING AT SUNCHASER RESORT:

The cost of getting out of your VIA has risen to $16,000.00, up from $3,167.00 back in 2013. This means your timeshare is now so worthless that YOU NEED TO PAY $16,000 to terminate your lease.

How is this justified? Maybe you should phone Northmont and ask how they arrived at this number.

As an owner, you didn't benefit from the $20,000,000 collected by Northmont from those who paid to leave back in 2013. Did they improve the property? Did your maintenance fees go down? Will you or the property gain from the tens of millions of dollars proposed to be paid by those in the Geldert Group? What about the $11-million for the sale of Hillside? Where does that money go?

J's Garage · Dec 29, 2017

Professional liability insurance indemnifies lawyers for client losses caused through lawyers’ negligence;

The No. 1 cause of malpractice claims – one-third in all – are communications errors between lawyers and their clients,” said LawPRO’s Pinnington. “These errors commonly involve a real or perceived failure by a lawyer to follow a client’s instructions or other miscommunication, and even no communication at all.”

Another common lawyer/client communications error is “failing to obtain the client’s consent when taking action or not keeping them fully informed,” said Pinnington.

a lawyer’s inadequate knowledge of the law relevant to a specific case; conflicts of interest; and clerical mistakes, and there are many ways that even the best organized and most conscientious of lawyers can make mistakes

IOW - start documenting

taken from : https://www.cba.org/Publications-Resources/CBA-Practice-Link/Young-Lawyers/2016/insurance

J's Garage · Dec 29, 2017

Those that are now selecting option 2: note and demand (b) - maybe we'll know more about the "class action" (e) - 10,000 left before a few more invoices. Another retainer or is a portion of the settlement for him. (f) - files

On discharge or withdrawal, a lawyer must, as soon as practicable:

(a) notify the client in writing, stating:

(i) the fact that the lawyer is no longer acting;

(ii) the reasons, if any, for the withdrawal; and

(iii) in the case of litigation, that the client should expect that the hearing or trial will proceed on the date scheduled and that the client should retain new counsel promptly;

(a.1) notify in writing all other parties, including the Crown where appropriate, that the lawyer is no longer acting;

(b) subject to the lawyer’s right to a lien, deliver to or to the order of the client all papers and property to which the client is entitled;

(c) subject to any applicable trust conditions, give the client all relevant information in connection with the case or matter;

(d) account for all funds of the client then held or previously dealt with, including the refunding of any remuneration not earned during the representation;

(e) promptly render an account for outstanding fees and disbursements;

(f) co-operate with the successor lawyer in the transfer of the file so as to minimize expense and avoid prejudice to the client; and

(g) notify in writing the court registry where the lawyer’s name appears as counsel for the client that the lawyer is no longer acting and comply with the applicable rules of court and any other requirements of the tribunal.

Petus@18 · Dec 29, 2017

Alert to all
If you wish to withdraw from this settlement you need to confirm by reply email to MG prior to 12:00 PST on December 29, 2017 (today). What a way to end the year!

Punter · Dec 29, 2017

Petus, where are you getting this from? How can this be considered legal representation when we are being forced to make this decision with zero information?

KGB_527 · Dec 29, 2017

Palms to pines said:
I just feel duped.We had a contract with Fairmont resorts from 1998’ paid our maintenance fees faithfully and used the resort, exchanged, no complaints. The pay to go or pay to stay came as a complete shock. Was our timeshare so valueless we had to pay thousands of dollars to be rid of it? Many more issues followed and then - a lawyer willing to point out all of our grievances in open court. We didn’t know who found him but we signed on.We had faith in the contract we signed. But instead he does a “ test case”. Loses. Case drags on . He asks us to write yelp reviews, and the case drags on. Tells us to write letters to Northmont regarding their poor management. Nothing comes of that. Jeke goes on and on, cash register is ringing. Then, the Legacy for Life people can save the day, stop the realignment because we are “owners! Write another letter stating our rights . Goes nowhere, the case drags on.He says he has meetings set up with the press - never happens . He tells us the court will force NM to pay maintenance fees , so, glad to hear that. They own half the resort. Nope, another dead horse and the case drags on. Also informs us that people cancel contacts with Mountainside for a few hundred dollars.Well, we are staying in the race. .Pays a fortune for research and affidavits but doesn’t follow the procedure necessary to get it admitted. Nope, now our contracts are all identical to Jeke and he rode that nag right to the finish line. The case drags on. Then wow, the option plan. MG tells me the group has “ significant legal and moral currency” He has an aggressive plan for the coming petition. Has laid the groundwork for a class action. Instead, he cancels the petition, caves into Northmont and tells me we have no moral currency! He tells me he has made a settlement, not a deal. No kidding. I can’t see that having legal representation helped us at all.

I am in the same situation. We have been a member at Fairmont since 2002, upgraded to prime golf in 2003, paid everything on time until this. Now what? Are you going forward with this settlement by MG? I just wonder, out of ~1350 people, how many will go with it? This is such an injustice, screaming for some big time push back against it. If nobody paid, how Northmont will deal with such a big group, on individual basis?

Petus@18 · Dec 29, 2017

Punter said:
Petus, where are you getting this from? How can this be considered legal representation when we are being forced to make this decision with zero information?

The message from MG was sent yeterday at 9pm. And I agree, we cannot even retain the help of another lawyer to provide us with legal advice. My opinion, reject the proposal and hire another lawyer right away. Lets dont make it easy for them.

Tanny13 · Dec 29, 2017

We are being coerced into a settlement we were told we could review prior to it becoming binding. This is NOT an “excellent” outcome and this is my plan:
Send a fax to Judge Young indicating her orders were not followed and describing the current travesty of justice.
I will seek independent legal counsel.
Confirm with Geldert that we do not accept the settlement, even though we never signed Option 1.
If we are forced to pay, I will pay my RPF and outstanding maintenance fees, under protest. I will pay 5% interest as that is the maximum allowed per the Interest Act (my contract stated interest per month, which is illegal).
I will not pay any additional amounts and I will STAY AND FIGHT. If we all reject this ridiculous settlement, the fight goes on and we can try to regain our leverage.

truthr · Dec 29, 2017

Ultimate_Betrayal said:
Whether you were part of the litigation group or are still enjoying your time at the resort there has been a lot of things decided that people will have to live with from these proceedings. If you ever draw that line in the sand in deciding it is time to part ways with your timeshare, ask yourself:

1. Will you actually be able to get out

2. If you can exit, how costly will it be

3. Remember the resort management plays the legal game to win (kind of like World of Warcraft – have a comprehensive plan, play strategically, and look for an opponent’s weakness and manipulate it)

4. The presiding judges interpret legal arguments and their decisions made have been done around the ability to reach a conclusion based on legal president, evidence, and facts – present a case the way that is expected and leave the surprises at the door, emotion and poor case presentation doesn’t = winning (a judge is not there to do a lawyers job)

The contracts have:

· no exit provision other than the term and Legacy of Life is in perpetuity (for ever and ever)

· the resort management can change the contract or do another assessment at any time – it doesn’t take much to validate this and most of the rebels will be culled shortly

· the timeshare is worthless so no one is going to ever buy or want to inherit it so how much will it cost to have the resort management buy it – from what I read the going figure to dump it today is about $16,000 for someone who is all paid up. Good luck in the future, the resort management will not need it and does not want it – it’s a liability not an asset.

Just recently in talking with members of this litigation group, there is a lot of things that don’t make sense and come to the conclusion the lawyer is either:

· done with the group (game over) and has figured out the gravy train and groups good will is at an end perfectly coinciding with the next bigger client (suckers) out of the US who see a knight in shining armor and hearing of great wins and exploits through successfully negotiated a great release settlement for their existing clients). Having a delay now may impede on collection of fresh retainers

· not sure, is this no clue, arrogant, or incompetent. Why not just focus on actually negotiating a settlement right out of the gate like the lawyer’s clients have instructed (maybe there was, and it wasn’t shared – who knows) instead of abandoning and not presenting key evidence at trial, pissing the judge off, killing key negotiation chips, prejudicing individual clients for what has proven to be a very flawed approach, and not reading Negotiating For Dummies 101. Reading the transcripts from super conferences to trials there has been so many breadcrumbs provided by judges you would think a follow-up strategy / roadmap would present itself for a economical solution by following the advice of these learned people who clearly are not the litigation groups lawyer / strategist but nevertheless provided a trail as they could see the righting on the wall and pending injustice.

· Some are even suggesting collusion – haven’t seen direct evidence to support this but there has been a lot of suggestions it’s out there

Insult to injury – next the lawyer will inform everyone all the collected trust money is used up and will hit the trough up one more time to process all those huge settlement tabs and prepare the individual statement claims (or more than likely there will not be time for this as there is the new retainers to attend to so delegating tasks to discredited individuals may be more efficient and just manage efforts)

· Ever wonder how much has been collected in the trust and has it been administered correctly and prudently – wonder how accurate the bouncing litigation group member figure is and if all have paid all the retainers

· Can this lawyer actually do the things properly to get a final release (so far way more losses than wins on the lawyer’s track record) or will the lawyer screw up again and allow people to be stuck with their timeshare after paying all that money out (at that point everyone needs a guarantee) – this might be an interesting strategy, if everyone is forced to pay their full invoice they are entitled to start using their timeshare again – will there be units available to use

· Why are proceedings like the petitions that would see the resort torn apart (that also act as negotiation chips) all ready being abandoned, what’s going to happen with the two appeals that have been filed – nothing is a done deal

· Its my understanding when appeals have been filed in Alberta and BC for the most recent trials the lawyer must request and pay for transcripts – has the litigation group members seen these recent transcripts to review the lawyers performance at these trials and get insight as to why the judge is pissed at the lawyer (might have to do with res judicata and surprise motions) as the litigation trust paid for them

· Bet there is a tone of wasted research paid for by the litigation groups trust for things like how can a class action be achieved – unfortunately research like this needs a client who can benefit from it but if the lawyer has tainted all the exiting clients who actually stand to benefit from a future action as there is a good chance the existing trust clients cannot benefit from it so has this been a waste of money or is there another agenda that this group paid for

The best way to keep clients from demanding results is to keep them segregated and fearing being abandoned to fend for themselves (kind of like what bullies do) – do members of this litigation group ever feel this way? Are conversations censored and manipulated, is there a feeling of being monitored, has it been said that the individual knowledge is dangerous as the individual cannot be trusted just in case they are a spy or will say something to blow up the whole case (guess it wouldn’t have mattered – how much worse could the litigation group members have made it if they spilled the non-existent beans a couple of years ago). Enough is enough – all the rules were followed and now everyone is a big loser and in hind site probably would have been cheaper to go it alone but going this far there is only one thing to do, start questioning what has happened without worrying about repercussion (really what can be done at this point to make it worse) and start communicating and sharing – time to force accountability.

My bet is litigation members are being segregated for a reason and been appeased for years by being satisfied hearing that a settlement was around the next corner but all that is consistent is a request for another retainer and advice not to rock the boat, stay the coarse as every member matters as the numbers are what counts so sticking together benefits everyone – it’s always someone else’s fault for the failed negotiations!!

Has anyone actually been involved with providing direct input and not just played to think their voice matters – was there actually a road map and who has been driving this group? Are there members of the litigation group who don’t have an ulterior motive like taking over the resort who are the inner circle or better yet, is there still an inner circle of people who are timeshare owners?

So how many people have been betrayed – what happened to the promise of an individual review of the offer to settle before any hard and fast decision is made as promised twice in written correspondences and verbally. Seems anyone who was forced into choosing either option now sees they have made a terrible decision because of trust, manipulation, and coercion (remember protecting your rights made you an outcast of the group and would result your banishment). Having no input in such a life impacting choice is wrong or being abandoned and vulnerable as you were made to believe because you disagreed with the dictatorship option was not a choice at all.

Looking back there is many cases of manipulation all with the premise to benefit the group but did they – the most resent manipulations are to provide a smoke screen to set the lawyer up to show it is the will of the group or let the mavericks fend for themselves (hopefully everyone who became a maverick knows about what the lawyer on record must provide clients who are parting ways (pretty much a copy of everything) and the parting of the ways has been done procedurally correctly or if not, they are still part of the litigation group as the judge clearly stated the matter needed to be dealt with as a whole and not individually at this stage of the proceedings).

The judge gave direction for three options to be followed for the two sides to come to an arrangement and if talks fail they would progress from 1 to 2 and finally to 3:

1. Mutually (this is as far as the lawyer made it before throwing in the towel) – just curious, did any member of the litigation group attend and consent or was this just what the lawyers decided?

2. Arbitrated (could be binding or non-binding) by neutral 3rd party – sounds fair enough

3. The judge would hear submissions and decide everyone’s fate

Does the lawyer even know what they have committed individual clients too? Maybe not – here is an estimated real-life example as no real information has actually been passed on to affected parties as of yet so individuals need to assume and are braising for the worst

· Get the 2018 statement for an annual + biannual prime that is in arrears for about $32,000 as it probably hasn’t been paid since the start as recommended by the lawyer which comprised of the original renovation fee for all building to be renovated, yearly maintenance, and lots of interest at 26% and add-in say a 20% ($6400) resort manager fee to relieve you of your liability (timeshare) brings you to just shy of $40,000

· So let’s say there are 1000 people that will be settling – quick math = $40.000,000 (right off the bat that means $6,400,000 goes to the resort manager, wonder how much of the other $33,000,000 will end up staying in the resort as now the VIA contracts are worthless as the resort manager now can change them to suite itself the majority holder)

What can be done

1. Express your concerns to your lawyer

2. Contact the presiding judge (remember be respectful – they have done their job properly)

3. Contact provincial law society (again be respectful, look up the rules, provide supporting documentation to your claims, and summarize your grievances along with how your lawyer has failed to meet the Code of Conduct all lawyers are professionally bound too)

FYI – complaining to your lawyer may get you a generic email response indicating to suck it up if you chose an option originally or invite you to leave (which by the way is not really an option because of the lawyer on record thing and judges directions to get this resolved as a whole not individually).

I am definitely not a lawyer so I cannot offer legal advice but be cautious what you post in open forums – be happy to hear from you if you have something you want to say more directly, send me an email if you like back123@shaw.ca

My intent is to ignite communications which I expect will come in many forms from positive to hostile and hope other people also exercise their right to question recent developments and send a resounding UNACCEPTABLE message down whatever route you are most comfortable with.

I no longer want to be isolated!!!

Well said - but remember everyone the Judge ruled on what was presented and how it was presented. She is not at fault.

truthr · Dec 29, 2017

Tanny13 said:
We are being coerced into a settlement we were told we could review prior to it becoming binding. This is NOT an “excellent” outcome and this is my plan:
Send a fax to Judge Young indicating her orders were not followed and describing the current travesty of justice.
I will seek independent legal counsel.
Confirm with Geldert that we do not accept the settlement, even though we never signed Option 1.
If we are forced to pay, I will pay my RPF and outstanding maintenance fees, under protest. I will pay 5% interest as that is the maximum allowed per the Interest Act (my contract stated interest per month, which is illegal).
I will not pay any additional amounts and I will STAY AND FIGHT. If we all reject this ridiculous settlement, the fight goes on and we can try to regain our leverage.

Right on!! I am with you!!

Punter · Dec 29, 2017

Tanny13 said:
We are being coerced into a settlement we were told we could review prior to it becoming binding. This is NOT an “excellent” outcome and this is my plan:
Send a fax to Judge Young indicating her orders were not followed and describing the current travesty of justice.
I will seek independent legal counsel.
Confirm with Geldert that we do not accept the settlement, even though we never signed Option 1.
If we are forced to pay, I will pay my RPF and outstanding maintenance fees, under protest. I will pay 5% interest as that is the maximum allowed per the Interest Act (my contract stated interest per month, which is illegal).
I will not pay any additional amounts and I will STAY AND FIGHT. If we all reject this ridiculous settlement, the fight goes on and we can try to regain our leverage.

We could support that course of action. My questions are:

1) What is the legal implication of paying a partial amount 'under protest'?

2) Is there really a law that says only 5% interest can be charged? We were sued in Alberta.

3) If there is a law capping interest at 5% annually, why hasn't Geldert said something about interest rates?

4) If we do pay the partial or even the full amount invoiced, and we are not part of the Geldert Group, are we 'released' from our VIA; or, do they just sue us all over again at a future date?

Tanny13 · Dec 29, 2017

I’ll answer what I can....
1) I will find out from independent counsel.
2) Yes, but you need to check your VIA. Mine is from 1992. The requirement of annual interest is in the Canada Interest Act, So province doesn’t matter. If interest is NOT stated per annum, 5% is the max.
3) Good question. Michael’s response has been that if he negotiated less interest then Northmont would have just added to the cancellation fee, so our total owing would be the same. Which is why, to stay at this point would be way cheaper. These scare tactics from our own lawyer are unconscionable, especially at this time of year, with deadlines of 15 hours when other lawyers are unreachable.
4) I don’t believe you will be released. Again, this will be a question for another lawyer.

Punter said:
We could support that course of action. My questions are:

1) What is the legal implication of paying a partial amount 'under protest'?

2) Is there really a law that says only 5% interest can be charged? We were sued in Alberta.

3) If there is a law capping interest at 5% annually, why hasn't Geldert said something about interest rates?

4) If we do pay the partial or even the full amount invoiced, and we are not part of the Geldert Group, are we 'released' from our VIA; or, do they just sue us all over again at a future date?

aden2 · Dec 29, 2017

Bought timeshare 2007 and was scammed in Legacy for Life as Fairmont became insolvent 2010. Sent demand note to Northmont in 2013 claiming violation of FTA. Referred to "Remedies on Default"in my letter to rejection May 11,2013. Filed formal complaint With Service Alberta September 9, 2014. Ha
ve not used resort since 2012 but rec'd invoice Dec 27, 2017 for $18973.50 ($9799.80 interest charges). Why am I still being billed.

heydynagirl · Dec 29, 2017

Punter said:
Petus, where are you getting this from? How can this be considered legal representation when we are being forced to make this decision with zero information?

It was in the email the lawyer sent Dec 28 at approx. 21:00 PST

heydynagirl · Dec 29, 2017

Punter said:
We could support that course of action. My questions are:

1) What is the legal implication of paying a partial amount 'under protest'?

2) Is there really a law that says only 5% interest can be charged? We were sued in Alberta.

3) If there is a law capping interest at 5% annually, why hasn't Geldert said something about interest rates?

4) If we do pay the partial or even the full amount invoiced, and we are not part of the Geldert Group, are we 'released' from our VIA; or, do they just sue us all over again at a future date?

Please take a look at Alberta Limitations Act, Section 2 and 3. Also look at Alberta Collection and Debt Repayment Act (part of the Fair Trading Act)

CleoB · Dec 29, 2017

Okay, the way I see it is that he only thing that was decided against us was the RPF, interest and court costs. The maintenance fees and interest can be argued under the Fair Trade Act and the Judgement Interest Act. The JIA states that no more than 4% interest/ year can be charged.

heydynagirl · Dec 29, 2017

I purchased my timeshare in July 1996. Does anyone have a copy of the back of a contract dated around that period? I am interested in reviewing any reference to interest costs.

Punter · Dec 29, 2017