• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

Punter

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
59
Reaction score
49
Quadmaniac, thank you for saying what everyone is thinking. Your summation highlights it perfectly.
His insistence on checking the IP address is telling as he is assuming that the moderator knows Wankle's IP address. And how would this person know if Wankle has ever posted on this forum? Well that's an easy one to figure out.
Let's try to steer this forum back to its purpose and ignore the person trying to hijack this thread.
 

truthr

newbie
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
286
Reaction score
294
Location
British Columbia
Reminder

In case any of you who have retained counsel have forgotten we have been instructed to refrain from posting on social media.

As far as misinformation and opinions we don't like we are all adults here and can decipher for ourselves whether something is relevant or not without trying to force the moderators to either shut down this thread or prevent anyone from posting their opinions.

I, for one, appreciate and have benefited from the information presented by all sans the personal attacks, innuendos and character assassinations.
 
Last edited:

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,932
Reaction score
8,680
Location
Florida
last warning...im no longer deleting posts...ill just suspend your ability to post in the future.
 

Quadmaniac

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,913
Reaction score
217
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Resorts Owned
Marriott Willow Ridge (x2), Ko Olina week 51 (x3) & 52(x2)
In case any of you who have retained counsel have forgotten we have been instructed to refrain from posting on social media.

As far as misinformation and opinions we don't like we are all adults here and can decipher for ourselves whether something is relevant or not without trying to force the moderators to either shut down this thread or prevent anyone from posting their opinions.

I, for one, appreciate and have benefited from the information presented by all sans the personal attacks, innuendos and character assassinations.

The only person discussing the judgement is Xplor. Nothing wrong with posting differing opinions, but when it is insults and bullying, it serves no useful purpose other than to try to provoke panic. Everyone knows what his opinion is and he is entitled to what he thinks about the outcome, but it crosses the line when you are insulting people about their decision to join in the first place "its obvious Belfry has no case" and what they should do next.

We all have the ability to read the judgement ourselves and seek outside counsel if we have concerns or questions beyond that. There is no need for personal attacks. If our opinion has credibility, we don't have to force it down someone's throat to feel validated.
 

kevinjanny

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
My in laws paid to leave and are happy they did, but they hope the best for the everyone in this. Gloating about the outcome of the court battle would be the last thing they would ever do. My wife and I have a 3 bedroom at Lake Okanagan Resort and according to the person I spoke to when I reserved my week last July, they are going to be contacting owners this year and offer a similar option to pay and opt out of their contracts. Based on the condition of the older units, this will be what we will do, even though I hate giving them any more money.
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,932
Reaction score
8,680
Location
Florida
very sorry you did not heed my polite requests...enjoy your time off.
 

weppb1

newbie
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Location
Saskatchewan
Well said RandyCDK and Xplor thanks for your last statement. I feel that if Northmont could come up with some kind of buyout for those who still haven't paid, meaning a payment that is not out of reach for those folks that do not have the kind of money that Northmont is wanting, there will be a smoother finish to all of this. If something cannot be worked out and Northmont pushes for as much money as they can get out of us all including the 26 percent interest rate, many will default as they are in poor financial situations and Northmont will not get their money from us in the long run. I am assuming that Northmont will want all of us to pay up and move on so that they can sell the land which is worth oh so much money but many won't as the payment will too high to reach. I know that if the original amount to buy out wasn't so high in our situation, we would have sadly paid it but would have still missed going there every year. These vacations were priceless for our family, but money is money and when you don't have a lot of it, it hurts to pay to give something up. We purchased the TS when our kids were little and the salesman (Pat) sold it to us by stating that when money was tight, that at least we could have one vacation a year that we could drive to and then just relax and enjoy. That we didn't have to worry about anything as the family that owned the resort was well establish and well respected in the community and they have money in reserves for any large maintenance issues. Our maintenance payments would rise very slowly as each year maintenance will be done to keep the resort in pristine condition. Well that upstanding family failed us and walked away with their personal money in their pockets.


I am just so sad that we have lost the great vacations we once so loved. I have many great memories of our family vacations there. I wish the Family that owned the resort before Northmont would have followed through on there promise to us to have 40 years of fun at their resort and that all the money that was supposedly put in accounts for the very reasons of the assessment would have followed through on their promises. I am sure that Fairmont Family is living happy and fine on the backs of us TS owners.

As for Northmont, they are very much in it for money, their track history shows it so I can understand why everyone is scared to deal with them. Some business people do think of their employees, co-owners and their clients when doing business with them, I know of businessmen personally that try never to step on the little guy to make a buck and are very successful but most groups like Northmont are in it for the money and that is how they proceed in any business dealing no matter who it hurts along the way. They are not millionaires by playing nice guy. But fortunately there are those businessmen out there that do run very sound business, make a lot of money and don't need to hurt the little guy along the way. I am now hoping to see some fairness in Northmont with dealing with us that still owe and many of us would have paid one way or another if the amounts were not so steep. Hard to pay if you then have large bank debts that haunt you forever.

I don't think it was unreasonable for us to question the validity of the assessment fee and have the court decide if it was fair, so hoping Northmont isn't going to hold this process against all of us.

Waiting to see if Northmont can show the fair businessmen side to all of this and come up with a reasonable way out for us folks so as to not drag out the process. And I am hoping Northmont can see its way to being reasonable. Thanks

Anxiety23 - They were fair in the 1st place. If you would have paid at the time you were given the options all would have been fine. I don't know what they will ask you to pay now but no doubt it will be in accordance with what they advised in their initial communication about the reno project. If you didn't pay then I assume they will ask you to pay more now...as it should be.
 

Frustrated61

newbie
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
CALGARY
Not fair with everyone.

Anxiety23 - They were fair in the 1st place. If you would have paid at the time you were given the options all would have been fine. I don't know what they will ask you to pay now but no doubt it will be in accordance with what they advised in their initial communication about the reno project. If you didn't pay then I assume they will ask you to pay more now...as it should be.

Fair? When is being underhanded and unprofessional fair?
I have spent the last couple of hours reading these entries. That might not seem like a lot of time to some people, however, it is to me. I have terminal cancer, so my time is valuable. I would not even be on this site had this timeshare company been honorable from the start.

I endorsed the lease with my ex in early 2007. They wrote I could have two weeks in Hawaii and one in Kelowna as an extra bonus for signing. They showed us places in Ontario and Newfoundland that we could trade for. It was a high pressure sale.

When I went home I called to book my weeks......image my surprise when there were no places in Ontario or NFL. Seems we were shown a "old" book. I then asked to book in Fairmont, nope all booked, maybe next year. Hawaii, booked, Kelowna booked for two years. This caused me to do more research and decide we wanted out. I call them Five days later to cancel this lease, which was in the 7 days allotted time. They continued to take monies from my account. After numerous emails and phone calls, we drove to BC, spoke to the manager and endorsed what we were told was a release, and were told it was taken care of.

I was then contacted in 2008, where I spent hours trying to deal with the issue. Finally I was told that it had been dealt with.

In early late 2012 I was again contacted, now by the new company who said they rewrote my contract and did not care what the previous company did. They said I owed 2010 and 2012 fees. I gave them the name of my bankruptcy agency and they were told the fees were written off. I requested confirmation in writing from the company and I received an email stated my account was finally fixed and we could move forward.

In early 2015 I was contacted again and this time when I cc'd them the email they completely disregarded it. I then received a call from the collection agency/law firm about the fact I owed over $15,000.00 with interest fees, reno fees etc. On a timeshare I had been told was finally dealt with.

The person on the phone was a complete "ass" for lack of a better word. He was rude, insulting and did not listen. His comment was I don't care what happened before the contract was rewritten you owe this money or we are going to sue you. I have attempted to deal with this in good faith. I have NEVER used this timeshare, I followed all the rules.

I wrote email after email trying to deal with the company and the collection agency/law firm. I NEVER receive any option to "pay" in 2013. Had I, I would have paid immediately. At that time I would have only owed 2014 and the cancellation fee. Yet, they said they had no contact info. Really I received their emails about collections, they had my phone number, or at least they gave it to the collection agency.

In Feb I was again called by the same "ass". He was even more of a jerk. I tried to tell him I could only pay $2,500.00 as even then that is my funds for palliative care. He said I don't care you have to pay it all or we will sue you and garnish your wages. i will be going on disability. His reply is we will take that also. I hung up.

Two weeks later I got another call from someone who did not disclose his name. He said he was calling from the law office and knew nothing about the collection agent and in fact seemed very nice saying he saw no notes in the file from them. He said he had managed to have other TS owners that day settle by paying 2 years of fees. I told him what I could pay and that I had no idea where my ex was. He told me he would call me back the next day after talking to the timeshare company and doing his best to settle. However, when I hit redial, surprise ......it was the collection agency.

I then wrote the company and gave them the same offer. They wrote back and said they would work with me and asked about my illness and requested verification from my doctor. I provided it to them immediately. The next thing I get is an email saying, sorry, if you cannot provide us contact for your ex we cannot help you. They acted like they did not know two of us were on the lease. Then when I gave them the last know address, they said we cannot help you! So really they just wanted someone to serve.

How is it, that they could take a settlement from one TS owner for two years, and not me? Now they say he has to agree to take on the lease? Yet, others can settle and walk away. I cannot pay and do the same?

And you think this is fair??? I don't. I never used the timeshare, I never received the option to buy out. I have offered all I can............

So if anyone has any ideas, I am open to listening. Please if you are just going to give me a negative comment.......save it. PS sorry for the long reply.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
54
Reaction score
56
Frustrated61, I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope and pray for the best for you. This will be resolved for all of us one way or the other but for you I'm hoping you will be considered done with it. It's more and more in their interest to move forward. Collection agencies are out for anything they can get but I have to admit I've never heard of anything so offside as your situation. (Thanks for the long reply)

I guess another example of how things have been handled.

As for everyone discussing parts of the case, it has been cathartic to read some of the posts on here and I was glad to hear further astonishment over things like "who will pay?" and the definition of capital costs. Quite honestly thanks, it helped me...but let's work with Geldert on this and follow his request.
 

ERW

newbie
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
86
Reaction score
1
Location
Winnipeg, MB
I read the complete decision and before anyone heeds Geldert's advice, I would suggest that you check with another lawyer for another opinion. The decision handed down was not ambiguous in any way whatsoever. As a matter of fact, it was very clear that the judge did not feel there was any grey area at all. I would be reluctant to pursue further action without some further legal advice as I think you could well be throwing good money after bad. As antagonistic as xplor's comments could be, he/she did make some very good points. No one wants or likes to loose in legal matters but flogging a dead horse can be extremely expensive.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
54
Reaction score
56
I'm not sure if ERW is commenting on my post but my comment was to follow Geldert's request to not discuss the trial on here, or in any public way. That should be clear. As for heeding Geldert's advice of course everyone should seek any extra legal opinions they need.

The first course of action is obviously to discuss the situation and clear up any questions with your paid for lawyer, Geldert. Then you can get an informed decision from whoever else you hire.

As has already been said several times here it's obvious that some on this board are doing much more than expressing their opinions but instead are aggressively working to influence people to settle. Why would anyone put that much effort into that position, cui bono?

There are several things that stand out from the trial but they don't need to be discussed here, whether someone is antagonizing or not. The judge is not infallible as we've already seen with one Supreme Court Justice, as I recall the appeals judge had a non grey, pointed response to the previous judge's efforts.

I have not made my choice as of yet but the aggressive actions to try to get people to settle on this board make me feel like I'm being sold snake oil. Not exactly a trusting feeling.

The verdict was definite and overwhelmingly against. That being said there are several issues, some noted on this thread, that don't add up and that I will be discussing with counsel. As for extremely expensive? No, to appeal will a cost a small percentage of what's already on the line.
 

kevinjanny

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Frustrated61, we can only imagine the hell you've been through. When I read your post, a few things came to mind. Please don't take this as professional advice because I am in no way close to being a lawyer. You may want to first get the advice of a lawyer, as most times the initial phone call/consult is free. Contact a few to get a feel for what they could provide. It may be something as simple as a letter drafted by your lawyer, with copies of all the documentation you have to get them to back off. The fee your lawyer would charge for this would vary, but shouldn't amount to much. My initial reaction to your post was for you to go to the media and shame them publicly, and draw as much attention to them as you can, but first maybe try and see what a lawyer might be able to do for you. Everyone has a certain dollar amount they are willing to go, and you probably have that number in mind. I am sure everyone here wishes you the best in this and hope it can be resolved soon.
 

icequeen59

newbie
Joined
May 14, 2013
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Location
Edmonton Alberta
Devastated

We seriously do not know what to do.Northmont is emailing our work emails...phoning us and generally harassing us. I have no idea how they got the work emails. We do not have the money they are requesting we pay. Nor do we have the money to get out of this disaster of a time share. Worst decision ever to buy at Fairmont. There must be some protection for the consumer? They are not going to get their money from us...so they might as well just take their timeshare back and be done with it. Never ever again!!: :
 

Punter

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
59
Reaction score
49
We seriously do not know what to do.Northmont is emailing our work emails...phoning us and generally harassing us. I have no idea how they got the work emails. We do not have the money they are requesting we pay. Nor do we have the money to get out of this disaster of a time share. Worst decision ever to buy at Fairmont. There must be some protection for the consumer? They are not going to get their money from us...so they might as well just take their timeshare back and be done with it. Never ever again!!: :
Is it Northmont calling you or a collection agency?
 

Punter

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
59
Reaction score
49
We seriously do not know what to do.Northmont is emailing our work emails...phoning us and generally harassing us. I have no idea how they got the work emails. We do not have the money they are requesting we pay. Nor do we have the money to get out of this disaster of a time share. Worst decision ever to buy at Fairmont. There must be some protection for the consumer? They are not going to get their money from us...so they might as well just take their timeshare back and be done with it. Never ever again!!: :
Is it Northmont calling you or a collection agency?
 
Last edited:

xplor

newbie
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
0
I read the complete decision and before anyone heeds Geldert's advice, I would suggest that you check with another lawyer for another opinion. The decision handed down was not ambiguous in any way whatsoever. As a matter of fact, it was very clear that the judge did not feel there was any grey area at all. I would be reluctant to pursue further action without some further legal advice as I think you could well be throwing good money after bad. As antagonistic as xplor's comments could be, he/she did make some very good points. No one wants or likes to loose in legal matters but flogging a dead horse can be extremely expensive.

Ditto. That was my message. I believe many are only reading posts and listening in some cases as they did before, to misinformation. I have encouraged everyone to take the time to read the judgement completely and then make their decision as ERW has, more eloquently stated. Like the messenger (or message) or not, it is what it is now and the best step forward for everyone is to read the judgement and try to understand what happened and think about where your line is drawn in dealing with this issue. As what appears to be to 'lone voice' of the other side of the coin, that seems to have bothered some with the truth, deal with the facts only.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
21
Reaction score
22
Location
Edmonton
Not one man's war

I joined this lawsuit with eyes wide open. I knew the risks and was in no way influenced by a misguided person. Rather, I wish I had been brave enough to play David myself to this arrogant, self-centred Goliath. I NEEDED an outlet to scream "THIS IS WRONG! This is NOT what we were sold!" Someone had to stand up and try to stop the real owner from steamrolling over the thousands of us who believed we bought TIME and NOT responsibility for building infrastructure. Naive? I certainly do not think so. Cautious and a sceptic by nature, I grilled salesman PAT at length on the meaning of "maintenance" and my responsibilities under the related annual fees. I had him walk me through the fine print and posed several "what if" questions. Only when I was completely satisfied with Pat's detailed explanations of what I would be accountable for, only then did I pen my signature to that timeshare agreement.
Would I join ZEKE and Jim Belfry knowing what I know now? YES!! YOU BET!! A thousand times over! And this fight is NOT over in my books!
 

GypsyOne

newbie
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
197
Reaction score
149
I joined this lawsuit with eyes wide open. I knew the risks and was in no way influenced by a misguided person. Rather, I wish I had been brave enough to play David myself to this arrogant, self-centred Goliath. I NEEDED an outlet to scream "THIS IS WRONG! This is NOT what we were sold!" Someone had to stand up and try to stop the real owner from steamrolling over the thousands of us who believed we bought TIME and NOT responsibility for building infrastructure. Naive? I certainly do not think so. Cautious and a sceptic by nature, I grilled salesman PAT at length on the meaning of "maintenance" and my responsibilities under the related annual fees. I had him walk me through the fine print and posed several "what if" questions. Only when I was completely satisfied with Pat's detailed explanations of what I would be accountable for, only then did I pen my signature to that timeshare agreement.
Would I join ZEKE and Jim Belfry knowing what I know now? YES!! YOU BET!! A thousand times over! And this fight is NOT over in my books!

You expressed what I think the vast majority of TS owners were thinking when they bought a timeshare (not a share in a resort), and the reaction of virtually all in the litigation group. Judge Fitzpatrick's ruling amounts to institutionalized extortion, just as Justice Loo's ruling did, which was overturned on appeal. This ruling cries out for appeal and I think we stand a much better chance in the higher BC Court of Appeal. The only thing that would change my mind is if Northmont comes up with a fair proposal that enables all of us to put this travesty behind us.
 

GypsyOne

newbie
Joined
Mar 21, 2013
Messages
197
Reaction score
149
Ditto. That was my message. I believe many are only reading posts and listening in some cases as they did before, to misinformation. I have encouraged everyone to take the time to read the judgement completely and then make their decision as ERW has, more eloquently stated. Like the messenger (or message) or not, it is what it is now and the best step forward for everyone is to read the judgement and try to understand what happened and think about where your line is drawn in dealing with this issue. As what appears to be to 'lone voice' of the other side of the coin, that seems to have bothered some with the truth, deal with the facts only.

Your "lone voice" would have much more credibility if if wasn't for the fact you paid the renovation fee, which locked you into paying higher and higher maintenance fees (covering "all costs" of the resort) and probable continuing special assessments to rebuild a failing resort infrastructure, and you want others to join in to keep your costs down over the long run.
 
Last edited:

xplor

newbie
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
52
Reaction score
0
Your "lone voice" would have much more credibility if if wasn't for the fact you paid the renovation fee, which locked you into paying higher and higher maintenance fees (covering "all costs" of the resort) and probable continuing special assessments to rebuild a failing resort infrastructure, and you want others to join in to keep your costs down over the long run.

Keep trash talking me and you will get kicked off this board. Perhaps it is the credibility of understanding the contract to begin with and not chasing a lost cause your are talking about. In the longer run, you 'will' pay and much more. Those that stayed in will not be paying your share for long. It's like encouraging people not to pay their Master Card or Visa for 3 years, your costs add up hugely, including making a lawyer who lost terribly for you richer.
 

Punter

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
59
Reaction score
49
I joined this lawsuit with eyes wide open. I knew the risks and was in no way influenced by a misguided person. Rather, I wish I had been brave enough to play David myself to this arrogant, self-centred Goliath. I NEEDED an outlet to scream "THIS IS WRONG! This is NOT what we were sold!" Someone had to stand up and try to stop the real owner from steamrolling over the thousands of us who believed we bought TIME and NOT responsibility for building infrastructure. Naive? I certainly do not think so. Cautious and a sceptic by nature, I grilled salesman PAT at length on the meaning of "maintenance" and my responsibilities under the related annual fees. I had him walk me through the fine print and posed several "what if" questions. Only when I was completely satisfied with Pat's detailed explanations of what I would be accountable for, only then did I pen my signature to that timeshare agreement.
Would I join ZEKE and Jim Belfry knowing what I know now? YES!! YOU BET!! A thousand times over! And this fight is NOT over in my books!



I agree, it's certainly not over. This litigation group is not comprised of people who simply refuse to 'pay their bills'. It is made up of people who want to right a wrong. People who refuse to pay because management didn't provide financial statements, they failed to set up a home owners association and changed how they charge management fees. People who disagree with a lessee being responsible for capital costs. People who see the offering to 'pay to leave' rendering the remaining TS's worthless, as a clear intention of Northmont wanting to take back possession of the entire resort. People who were suckered into the Legacy for Life program without the disclosure of bankruptcy proceedings. The decision to appeal Judge Fitzpatrick's judgement was an easy one for me. Her judgement has provided a virtual 'blank cheque' for Northmont and even other timeshare companies that no longer want to look after the interests of the owners but rather see an opportunity to reclaim the resort and have the owners pay them to do it.
Patience will be required to see this to an end and in the meantime it will be interesting to see how long it will take Sunchaser Villas to implode. The remaining owners will surely get nervous faced with the rising costs of maintenance fees, the ability of Northmont to impose fees and assessments as they see fit, and the shrinking of the resort until the day Northmont decides it is too small to continue and they have reached their goal.
 
Top