[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[JustFacts]

How do you think she would rule on Audited Statements being mailed out to timeshare owners in a timely fashion according to the agreement? Do you think it is important for timeshare owners to receive these statements by March 31 of each calendar year so they can decide to stay or sell this terrible investment. Is it just as important as the cancellation fee and the Reno fee?

My opinion is worthless, just like everyone else's. Facts and law matter.

Breaches of contract must have damages to have any legal impact. The mindset seems to be"had I got these sooner, I would have sold my timeshare", but in reality it is "had I got these sooner, I would have tried (key word) to sell my timeshare."

The financial statement issue is a red herring because people forget that the same decision that would cause them to sell would cause people not to buy. It is like saying "if I knew the Canucks were going to lose, I would have sold my tickets before the game."

As for the importance of each of the items, I'll pose my own questions:

If I didn't have the financial statements today, would things be different?
If I wasn't liable for the renovation fee, would things be different?
If Northmont couldn't charge me a cancellation fee, would things be different?

Alternatively,
If I had the choice of getting the financial statements on time, not paying the renovation fee, or cancelling without the cancellation fee, which would I choose?

I know my answer to each, but as I noted above, my opinion is worthless.

 

[GypsyOne]

Late financial statements is but one issue. Compare the timeshare you were sold with the timeshare you have now. Read the contract and ask yourself how many of those conditions have been breached. There is no question our contracts have been breached and we have been misrepresented in a multitude of ways. The Special Case decision is very Northmont-centric and very B.C. government-centric. Northmont was handed a cash cow and you have to wonder how much the decision was motivated by the B.C. government not wanting a failed resort on its hands with resulting loss of tourism and a black eye for inadequate building and timeshare oversight. Northmont must not be allowed to run roughshod over the timeshare owners, so sign up with a law firm to fight this issue. I understand Geldert Law at sunchaser@geldertlaw.com is taking a major role in reviewing appeal.

 

[Spark1]

My opinion is worthless, just like everyone else's. Facts and law matter.

Breaches of contract must have damages to have any legal impact. The mindset seems to be"had I got these sooner, I would have sold my timeshare", but in reality it is "had I got these sooner, I would have tried (key word) to sell my timeshare."

The financial statement issue is a red herring because people forget that the same decision that would cause them to sell would cause people not to buy. It is like saying "if I knew the Canucks were going to lose, I would have sold my tickets before the game."

As for the importance of each of the items, I'll pose my own questions:

If I didn't have the financial statements today, would things be different?
If I wasn't liable for the renovation fee, would things be different?
If Northmont couldn't charge me a cancellation fee, would things be different?

Alternatively,
If I had the choice of getting the financial statements on time, not paying the renovation fee, or cancelling without the cancellation fee, which would I choose?

I know my answer to each, but as I noted above, my opinion is worthless.

It is not hard to tell that you are one of Northwynns monkeys. You were probably one of the 12% investors and now you are trying to steal the money back from the timeshare owners that you lost investing in Fairmont Finance. I will tell you first hand that financial statements are very important and that we are family owners of two large companies in Alberta. We also have very good lawyers and we will prove to you the importance of these statements. We still have not received 2013 statements and Northwynn knows where to shove them.

 

[gnorth16]

It is not hard to tell that you are one of Northwynns monkeys. You were probably one of the 12% investors and now you are trying to steal the money back from the timeshare owners that you lost investing in Fairmont Finance. I will tell you first hand that financial statements are very important and that we are family owners of two large companies in Alberta. We also have very good lawyers and we will prove to you the importance of these statements. We still have not received 2013 statements and Northwynn knows where to shove them.

Based on the "Just Facts" handle, date of registration and pro-Northwynd agenda, it could easily be deduced as such. I emailed 'just facts' and asked what their interest was in this situation and have yet to hear a reply.

For these reasons I would suggest not further engaging this person AND taking what they say with a grain of salt.

The beauty of the internet is that you can pretend to be something you are not,(An employee of a certain TS company) and attempt to portray an impartial voice of reason.

BTW, If anyone is wondering, I am the King of Siam who just happens to vacation in Winnipeg because of the diverse and invigorating climate.

 

[JustFacts]

We still have not received 2013 statements and Northwynn knows where to shove them.

Uhhh. You do realize it is November right?

 

[Tacoma]

Looks like the cost to get out has gone up by about $600. And you have to now pay your 2014 fees before they let you out. I see this as a scare tactic. You didn't pay before and now that we have won the court case we will charge you more to get out. This company is unbelievable. I'd rather pay a lawyer than pay them.

 

[Tacoma]

Looks like the cost to get out has gone up by about $600. And you have to now pay your 2014 fees before they let you out. I see this as a scare tactic. You didn't pay before and now that we have won the court case we will charge you more to get out. This company is unbelievable. I'd rather pay a lawyer than pay them.

 

[pdoff]

Uhhh. You do realize it is November right?

What's your point?

 

[ERW]

Not taking a stand one way or the other on this statement issue. I realize they previously have not ben on time but I think 2013 statement would not come out until early 2014 when the year is complete.

 

[ERW]

Looks like the cost to get out has gone up by about $600. And you have to now pay your 2014 fees before they let you out. I see this as a scare tactic. You didn't pay before and now that we have won the court case we will charge you more to get out. This company is unbelievable. I'd rather pay a lawyer than pay them.

Are you saying the 2014 "stay or go" has increased since this whole deal started early this year for the 2013 owners? I haven't seen that yet - is that info on their site or have you spoken to them about it?

The time my wife and I hold is coming up to 2014 and we've been holding off on our decision pending the decision. Just curious what we are up against.

 

[Tacoma]

Yes I do not remember the exact numbers but in May the pay to leave option was $3100 approximately. Yesterday on their site the fee is now over $3800. I guess when the judge ruled they have the right to charge a leaving fee they saw it as carte blanche to charge whatever they want. What do you think is going to happen to maintenance fees from now on? They get 15% off the top for anything that they do to the resort. There will be no stopping these guys until we band together and win in court.

 

[GypsyOne]

They get 15% off the top for anything that they do to the resort. There will be no stopping these guys until we band together and win in court.[/QUOTE]

A large number of timeshare owners are seeing it the same way and taking action. The Justice Loo decision was a pander to Northmont and probably the B.C. government, who doesn't want a bankrupt resort on their hands with resulting loss of tourism and a black eye for inadequate building and timeshare oversight. The injustice is they think we have to provide the correction and the capital to restore a rapidly deteriorating and badly managed facility in which there was probably a lot of leakage of our money. No question they have to be stopped or we will be their piggy bank forevermore. Sign on with one of the law firms looking after our interests. Geldert Law at sunchaser@geldertlaw.com is taking an active part. The cost is very reasonable compared to the alternative.

 

[ERW]

This gets more confusing everytime I look at all the paperwork. I think I am going to have to call them to attempt to get claification, if that is even possible.

It does look like the fees have increased. Can anyone answer the following so that when I call, I at least have some semblance of sounding like I know what I am talking about? (Based on the info sent to us regarding 2013 mtce fees)

1) If you decide to stay, The renovation fee appears to be (for an annual 2 BR non-RCI) $4194.00, half of that for a biennial. Does that include the mtce fee?

2) If you decide to leave it appears, if I read this correctly, the fee is $3167.51 for an annual 2 BR, and again, roughly half for a biennial.

That is my take on this but then when I look at the Cancellation Payment November 2013 form from the website, it appears you must not only pay the cancellation fee BUT ALSO the mtce fees for 2014? If so, do the mtce fees include the reno fees as well? And if that is the case, does that give us usage rights for our 2014 period?

My apologies if I sound confused, but I am! I'd be interested in everyone's interpretation before I phone in the next day or two.

 

[Tacoma]

ERW

Yesterday it was reported on facebook that Northmont had indeed increased their freedom to leave fees. I went on their website and found the info under freedom to choose with no problem and the fees were over $3800 where before they were over $3100.
Today the link is gone except I did find the old fees under letter sent or something like that. I wonder if their lawyer decided charging more to leave was not politically astute at this time. Definitely the information that was there yesterday is gone today.
Interesting note pay to leave cheques are paid to Northmont and renovation fees are paid to Norton Rose (their legal representatives). It has been reported that all monies in pay to leave are being pocketed by Northmont and are NOT going to renovations or upkeep. Not only that I do not believe that they are paying the maintenance dues on the units that they have acquired over the last months and maybe years. WHo is paying these maintenance fees? We are. That's why maintenance fees were around $950 last year. I haven't seen a number for 2014 yet but I predict it will be a large increase again.
Sitting on the fence is not enough now is the time to join a group and sign up with a lawyer and fight for fairness.

 

[ERW]

Hi Tacoma, when I looked today (immediately prior to my post this afternoon) the $3800.00 number was there so it looks like it still applies?

 

[Spark1]

Hi Tacoma, when I looked today (immediately prior to my post this afternoon) the $3800.00 number was there so it looks like it still applies?

There is no obligation on any owner to pay the cancellation fees,any payment of the cancellation fee is a "Collateral agreement" between Northmont and an owner,which means if you choose to voluntarily accept Northmont's cancellation offer you may do so. I was thinking more like 38cents.

 

[sunbunny]

The Justice Loo decision was a pander to Northmont and probably the B.C. government, who doesn't want a bankrupt resort on their hands with resulting loss of tourism and a black eye for inadequate building and timeshare oversight.

Seriously? You’re suggesting Justice Loo was not only biased but that she was manipulated by the BC government to rule against you? These attacks against Justice Loo are getting out of hand. This is Canada, not some puppet dictatorship. Our judges are not pawns.

You don’t end up on the Supreme Court through a Craigslist ad. It takes a long history. I googled Justice Loo. She’s not just any Supreme Court Justice.

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Ann_Loo

List of judges on the BC court website:
http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/supreme.../Judges_and_Masters_of_the_Supreme_Court.aspx

From the list of rulings she’s released: This summer she ruled on a case between the Attorney General of British Columbia and the Provincial Court Judges Association.
http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/13/13/2013BCSC1302.htm

She’s a Supreme Court Justice who has been on the bench for 17! years. She’s argued and won a case before the Supreme Court of Canada. She’s a judge who presided over a case where the plaintiff was other judges!

I took the time to read the whole ruling. On the front it shows 655 timeshare owners represented by five lawyers. People here have said they paid $150-$1,000. Let’s say that’s $500 an owner. That means over $300,000 has been spent by owners already.

Someone said Justice Loo’s ruling was one-sided. Does everyone here really believe its because a Supreme Court Justice with 17 years of experience was biased or a puppet of some government agenda?

And that the government’s agenda or Justice Loo’s is in favor of a timeshare company! Or that she wasn’t able to understand your arguments? That is insulting to Justice Loo and our legal system.

Supposidly now we can keep fighting for $150. Or maybe not. I couldn’t understand the $150, maybe, and only if enough people pay, but maybe we do something else and that will cost more. It was all very confusing.

What is enough people? We know 655 paid the first time, how many have to pay this time? More? Less? If we need $300,000 again, at $150 a pop that’s 2000 owners. What happens if we don’t get enough? Will people get their money back? What does my $150 buy? The first case took 6 months. I have no idea how long appeals take but a breach of contract suit would take years. How long before I get asked for another $150 or more? What happens if I get sued for default? Does my $150 defend me? Will my $150 pay to defend someone else if they get sued first?

 

[gnorth16]

Sunbunny = Just Facts?

 

[JustFacts]

I'd rather pay a lawyer than pay them.

The cost is very reasonable compared to the alternative.

The problem with this logic is it assumes paying the lawyer will lead to victory.

The lawyers already had six months and hundreds of thousands of dollars at their disposal and still lost an overwhelmingly one sided ruling. Yet somehow you think it'll work out better next time because why exactly? Justice Loo's ruling was pretty thorough.

When you lose, you end up paying the lawyer AND them and it is anything but the cheap alternative.

You could have cancelled in May for $3,200. You've already lost:

Whatever legal fees you paid.
$600 in interest on your renovation fee.
$1,000 for your 2014 maintenance fees.

Assuming you continue to default through an appeal or other lawsuit, both of which could easily take years, you'll lose:

$1,300 in interest each year on the renovation fee
$1,000 per year for maintenance fees
$300 per year in interest on the maintenance fees

That's before you pay your lawyer a penny. I wonder how many people who cancelled in May regret their decision?

 

[JustFacts]

What's your point?

You think Northmont has breached its contract by not providing audited financial statements for the year ended December 31, 2013 by November, 2013?!?

Are you kidding? Okay, you win internet. I concede.

If it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the reason the special case went in Northmont's favor was because Justice Loo was prejudiced against the owners or that Justice Loo was part of a BC government conspiracy to avoid bad press, then it is perfectly reasonable to assume Northmont has breached its contracts by not being capable of TIME TRAVEL.

Everyone should pay their $150. These allegations cannot possibly be rejected by the court of appeal. I wish you the best of luck.

I do have one question though: If this whole exercise has really been a grand BC government conspiracy, why will an appeal succeed? Won't the government make sure the appeal goes away quietly?

 

[Phew]

Bad news for all timeshares

Had a bi annual we purchased on the resale market about 9 years ago. We paid 1626.36 to get out and are glad we did. Part of our reason for getting out was are at a stage of life where we don't seem using a timeshare. As a result of this experience I tell everyone I can to stay away from timeshares completely. If you are considering buying one get advice from a lawyer about the potential liabilities before you sign anything. I feel especially bad for those who bought from the developer in the last few years. Some people seem to be mean spirited in their remarks which is unfortunate and in my opinion inappropriate.

 

[ERW]

Honestly, I am not going to be overly critical of Madame Justice Loo's decision. It is what it is. I am disappointed she did not make provisions to protect the consumers (i.e placing all reno fees in trust to ensure they are used as such, establishing a timeshare owners group for more fair representation of the owners) but then that was not the question asked of her so I'm not sure if she would have the latitude to make such rulings. That would be for another legal case.

I think JustFacts is correct when he/she says the decision of the courts was just that-the court's decision, not the Province of BC's for "political" reasons. The other fact of life is that when you go to court, your lawyer should be saying something like "I think we have a case but remember, the courts can go in either direction and nothing is guaranteed". Any lawyer worth their weight in cash will explain it that way - I've been involved in too many court cases (no, I'm not a lawyer, just get involved with company legal issues) to believe otherwise. There are no "sure things" in law. Myself, it is time to sit down and make a decision to stay or go. Justice Loo's decision was addressing a relatively simple question posed to her as to whether or not Northmont's course of action was legal or not. I don't like her decision, as many of us don't, but that was her decision. Appealing or launching a class action, etc. will take a long time and a lot of money. Personally, I would rather get through this and carry on, whatever my decision is. But that is a personal choice everyone needs to make and depends on your own resources, how much you have invested in your timeshares, etc. If ultimately I do decide to leave, my only regret is giving in and losing the remaining time we had purchased. But the reality is that vacations can now be bought on the internet very cheaply and maybe paying for mtce fees, deposit fees, lock-off fees, booking fees, Interval memberships just don't make it worthwhile any more.

 

[Soccer Canada]

Just something to think about

Here is the problem..
Justice Loo basically gave ANY Timeshare Management Company that does operations within the Province of British Columbia Carte Blanche to charge an upgrade/renovation fee whenever, and for how ever much they want.
Here are the facts:
-15% of the renovation goes straight into the Management Companies Pockets
-100% of the Cancellation Fee goes straight into downsizing, then turning those units into Condo's which Im certain they will attempt to sell for $200-250K at least.
-Northwynd has stated they DO NOT HAVE the funds to continue operations without the money they would receive from the Renovation Fee. What happens next year? or the Next? Do we keep getting a 15-20% raise in Fees, and then every other year get hit with another $1000+ assessment.
-Furthermore to all of this, why should WE pay to leave a timeshare that is already paid in full (at least I would assume most lease's have been paid out in full). And then have the Villas converted to Condo's on OUR dime.

For me the bottom line is the property is not OWNED by the Lease Holders. Give us an option to surrender the RTU and walk away, why should we in that case be required to pay a PENALTY of future maintenance requirements when you are going to downsize the resort and then turn around and sell that real estate. Those who want to stay then certainly can pay to have an upgraded unit, that is their choice how to spend their vacation dollars.

 

[GypsyOne]

".....These attacks against Justice Loo are getting out of hand...."

And whose water are you carrying? Nice transition into faux timeshare ownership, however, complete with attempt to frighten and confuse the owners.

 

[GypsyOne]

Sunbunny: ".....These attacks against Justice Loo are getting out of hand...."


And whose water are you carrying? Nice transition into faux timeshare ownership, however, complete with attempt to frighten and confuse the owners.