[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[Meow]

"LookingForAnswers", you mentioned the people who have not signed up with legal counsel, but expect to reap any benefits of the outcome without paying their share. I have little respect for people expecting a free ride. Either they are "with us or 'agin us".

 

[LookingForAnswers]

Actually, I said:

I know most who haven't signed on with lawyers feel they will reap the benefit of the work of the lawyers working in behalf of the groups..... personally, we were not willing to take that chance.

This was not intended as a slam against those who are not willing nor are in a position to pay for a lawyer. It just occurred to me that there is a definite possibility that this situation could have different outcomes (depending on our responses) for each of us involved.

For example - even choosing the right legal counsel can make a difference. In our case, we almost signed on with a lawyer right at the beginning. But backed out last minute because didn't quite get what she was trying to accomplish in our behalf. Had we gone with her - we would be fighting a completely different case here.

Since I am not able to handle any action on my own.... much prefer a professional to handle matters for me - we are very comfortable with the lawyer we chose and feel confident there will be a positive outcome.

I don't know if everyone is aware, but there are people who have put in a fair bit of personal time and financial resources to force Northwind into being accountable for their actions. All of us, regardless of whether or not we have joined a group with legal counsel should be grateful for their contribution. And if possible - it is the only fair thing to help out with the monetary costs involved.

 

[LookingForAnswers]

Thanks again gnorth16 and Pita. No I didn't try Arizona. I have a medical appointment within driving distance of Palm Desert/ San Diego and I had hoped to make my travel south worthwhile and use up my TS and stay a week. AZ is too far away to work into this engagement, but I shall maybe have to see what is available elsewhere and go "wherever" just to use up my time. I can't exchange any where though, if Interval gives me nothing to choose due to the Legal Petition / Necessary RENO mess that seems to have lowered the previous 5 star exchange value of Fairmont.

Take a look - our Sunchascher will exchange for a stay in a Marriott 1 bedroom Villa in Palm Desert Nov 30 - Dec 7th right now. It wont last long!

Otherwise, look at Escondido, by San Diego, more dates to choose from, as well as 1 or 2 bedroom units. Or how about Oxnard CA (near Santa Barbara - that's not too far away) There is a villa Dec 9-16.

I don't think it's necessarily our units to exchange - but the fact that all the Sunbird's are booking their winter vacations right now. Just keep looking each day. Something will come up.

 

[GypsyOne]

Observation from the written response of Northmont for the Tuesday, October 8 hearing before Justice Loo:

Northmont essentially dismisses our affidavit evidence as irrelevant.

Clause 2 - “The vast majority of the affidavit evidence before the Court filed by the Respondent Owners is irrelevant to this contractual interpretation.........”

And why would that be? Not our fault they say.

Clause 10 - “In Northmont’s view, much of the frustration of this subset of Owners arises from the actions of the previous property manager, Fairmont,.........”

Clause 33 - “.........the Owners seem to misunderstand the effect of the CCAA proceedings and that Northmont is not liable for the actions of Fairmont........”

Okay, then the Companies Credit Arrangements Act (CCAA) proceedings invalidates the contracts and owners can simply walk away. Not according to Northmont.

Clause 42 - “Northmont’s view was and continues to be that the Owners are required to pay their proportionate share of the cost of renovations pursuant to their obligations to pay for Operating Costs which include all administration, maintenance, repair, and replacement costs.

That interpretation seems like the height of absurdity. How can one have one’s contractual rights extinguished by the CCAA but still be held accountable for the obligations? Seems like a classic case of Northmont wanting their cake and eating it too. If that position were to be upheld, why would anyone in their right mind enter into a contract with a Timeshare Company, or enter into any contract for that matter? The good news is that it seems improbable the Court would rule in favour of such an unbalanced and egregious interpretation.

Northmont has some eighty odd pages of written testimony in preparation for the hearing. Many of their other points are equally outrageous. We have to hope our lawyers do their job and that Justice Madam Loo has a good B.S. filter and a strong sense of justice.

 

[darklord700]

Observation from the written response of Northmont for the Tuesday, October 8 hearing before Justice Loo:

Northmont essentially dismisses our affidavit evidence as irrelevant.

I gave up reading after 10 pages or so. Most of Northmount responses are akin to read Wankel's affidavits. I'm sure the justice can read Wankel's affidavits but weather the arguments hold water or not is the debate here.

 

[Disappointed W]

Northwynd Investors Action Group

I came across this info tonight as I was researching online. It was posted in April 2012. It is clear to me that the underlying motive behind the "restructuring plan" is to liquidate and "start returning investors money to them" and "protect remaining assets for the investor".

Fairmont Resorts Is No More

Northwynd Investors Action Group was recently established by a group of investors/unitholder that have major concerns about the dwindling assets and the questionable management and connection to the previous owners FRPL/Fairmont Resort Properties. The goal of the group is to remove all essence of FRPL / Fairmont from their new company that is floundering that it experinced under the same control before the bankruptcy, take control of their own company and start returning investors money to them.

The Action Group is presently working with the FRPL appointed Board of Trustees and management of Northwynd in a transition of control of our company and assets. Since their agreement in general, they have sent a Northwynd lawyer onto the Investors Action Group and have not backed out of their agreement to transition. The group is also reviewing business options with the CEO to explore ways to achieve the #1 goal of the group, protect remaining assets for the investor.

If anyone is interested in joining our group or commenting on their regretted investments, please email to northwyndinvestorsaction group@ymail

This was from another post, dated August 2011:


I have found out that the people named on the Northwynd website are all former Fairmont Resort Properties employees. Please help us on our quest to bring this company to justice and send its management to prison where they belong. Attached here is a current list of management from Northwynd Resort Properties and Fairmont Resort Properties.

Patrick Fitzsimonds; Chief Executive Officer
Doug Frey; Vice President, Development
Eleanor Fornataro; Vice President, Communications / Corporate Services
Chris Van Der Deen; Vice President, Operations / Member Services
Kirk Wankel; Chief Financial Officer

This next post is especially ironic:

Fairmont Resorts Is No More

The following news item appeared in the Columbia Valley News in July:
Fairmont Resorts Acquired by Northwynd

Now, through a court-approved sale process, newly-formed Northwynd Resort
Properties Ltd. has acquired Fairmont Resort Properties (FRP) in Fairmont Hot
Springs, BC. FRP properties include Fairmont Vacation Villas and Lake Okanagan
Resort in British Columbia, along with Makaha Resort and Golf Club in Hawaii,
Costa Maya Reef Resort San Pedro in Belize and Fairmont Rancho Banderas in
Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.


The first part of the new plan will be to introduce a home owners' association
for both Fairmont Vacation Villas and Lake Okanagan Resort to promote good
communication between timeshare owners and the management company, ensuring that
owners will be consulted in the operation of their units and also be encouraged
to provide input regarding the annual budgets.

You can check out this thread at:
http://www.redweek.com/forums/messages?thread_id=16969


And lastly, a link to the bankruptcy notice filed in July 2010:

http://documentcentre.eycan.com/eyc...t Properties Ltd/FRP - Bankruptcy Package.pdf

It will be interesting to see what develops in court. I am in favour of Kelly Hamilton's class action to put the management in the hands of the timeshare owners. Perhaps then we can, in part, "start returning timeshare owners' money to them" and "protect remaining assets for the timeshare owners."

 

[Disappointed W]

The Lawyers and The Knight

If anyone has not read the below link, please do! I think Philip Matkins lawyers should be stripped of their license to practise, and criminal charges against the lawyers and "the Knight" should follow this class action.

http://www.kelliehamiltonlaw.com/fairmont-class-action

 

[Disappointed W]

I think John Grisham may be interested in this story - or perhaps rather a nonfiction author - as the saying goes, "Truth is stranger than fiction."

 

[Disappointed W]

Message sent to Kellie Hamilton

Another supposed benefit of timeshare ownership with Fairmont was use of a houseboat. This was strongly marketed, and for us, was a major drawing card when we purchased in 2008. They had a houseboat elevated and parked adjacent to the highway, near the entrance to the resort, with large advertising promoting Fairmont. The houseboat benefit was no longer available by the following summer (I wonder if it was even available at the time we purchased?) It is apparent from the bankruptcy notice that this was due to unpaid account to Shuswap Lake Vacations, to the tune of $364,000. It appears that they (Sunchaser Vacation Club)acquired the houseboat, presumably by paying the account during the CCAA, but it was never again made available to timeshare owners. It is now being marketed separately for sale through timeshare weeks.

http://www.buyatimeshare.com/Suncha...nt-Houseboats/Calgary-AB-Canada/Ads/82545.htm
I hope you can use this to support the claim for misrepresentation, and loss of properties available for timeshare owners. Is compensation being sought for the loss of the properties in Hawaii, Belize and Mexico?
Thank you for pursuing this class action.

 

[Disappointed W]

Post copied from Facebook Owners Association - Fairmont Sunchaser Northwynd Resort

.








Fairmont and Northwynd have always treated us owners with a 2 prong 'AND" choice. While the other 3 lawyers appear to be taking the singular approach to cancel with no fee, the Kellie Hamilton group has taken a 3 prong approach to: 1) have the Court transfer ownership of the Resort to timeshare owners where a Board of Owners will hire the Trustee and Developer and Manager. That Board will be reported to and provide approval for fee increases and Resort projects. The current system of reporting oneself without any input from those affects is insane and is the reason many do not trust that Northwynd has our interests at heart. 2) since we timeshare owners paid for the Resort in full and then some, have the Court award the allocate the unused and vacated inventory (49% prior to the cancellations and approaching 56% now) profits on sale back into the Resort to offset: our original investments and/or the reno fee and/or future maintenance fees. 3) IF the Court refuses to acknowledge that timeshare owners paid over $89M in initial lump sum fees for a Resort that cost $62M in total, that we would agree with the other 3 lawyers to walk away with no fee. THE DIFFERENCE between our approach and the rest is that we WANT to stay and enjoy our Resort first and would only want to walk away a cancel as the "3rd prize".

 

[TS Migraine]

Thanks again Gypsy One for your succinct summation of matters at hand. I made mental note, as I was reading, of your pertinent observations and I concur completely with your interpretation; here's hoping Mme Justice Loo does too! Like Dark Lord, I gave up after about 10 pages of Northmont's affidavit. If their BS wins the day, I will be permanently disillusioned with Canadian justice. And YES why would anyone EVER buy a Time Share if the Vacation Interval CONTRACTS can be so seriously misconstrued to the Time owners disadvantage. Hard to think of us a 'Beneficiaries" as defined by the Trustee, who seems to be onside trying to weasel money out of us to pay for their mistakes. !

 

[condomama]

We are at Mountainside Villas right now, our "fall" vacation exchange for a few years now vs. June spent at Sunchaser. No such thing as a waiver to sign on check-in here. In and out of reception in 30 seconds, very smooth. Some may recall that Mountainside is the 'woodsy' resort of the two, a little more rustic and without frills, still even old style TVs and VCRs! There is WIFI which is good. Perhaps because of the ownership's preference for keeping things simple and not changing things for the sake of change - each time we stay, it's easy to notice things that have been refurbished. A few years ago it was new carpeting in the villa, which still looks good. This year, they seem to have a program going on to replace entryway steps and to enhance the old wooden porches with newer, more open railings. They look great. This is outside of the renovations they had to do after the floods.

Fees are openly listed in their binder as $639.00 per week for 2013. This includes $88.00 per week for refurbishments. Like Sunchaser, they want the maintenance fees paid before allowing an II exchange. There is also a letter in the binder from the owner explaining the difference in management between Mountainside and Sunchaser.

Our experience recently with exchanging has been different too. II have made a change that means one doesn't see much availability outside of 6 months, so we have to keep checking back and being patient. But California has always been difficult in the winter months - we just figured that it was because the owners used their timeshares in J-F-M. However, we never had problems getting into the Westin, Marriott or LWR, perhaps because of the time of year we went (November).

I wonder if part of the issue nowadays is that my husband and I aren't Gold or Platinum members of II. 20 years ago, it was simple, there was only one level of membership. Like other memberships elsewhere, now there are different enhanced categories so they probably have us flagged!

We noticed that driving into Sunchaser this week, one has almost 4 different colours going - the orangy taupe of the entrance walls along the highway; the brown golf course buildings; the 2 black buildings at Sunchaser and the rest - white buildings at Sunchaser. Hillside buildings are looking quite abandoned - drainage and rust marks all along the outside stucco like Sunchaser was, balconies in a similar state. However, both complexes appear busy.

At least the golf course finished their paint job all at once, but the two complexes obviously didn't get together to create one view like it used to be. So that's odd. Not a fan of either brown or black paired with the adobe coloured roof tiles but at least the golf course painted their entrance doors the colour of the roof to lend some cohesion.

Looking forward to a positive outcome of the court case for the owners. It is still nice to come to Fairmont! Happy Canadian Thanksgiving.

 

[Spark1]

We are at Mountainside Villas right now, our "fall" vacation exchange for a few years now vs. June spent at Sunchaser. No such thing as a waiver to sign on check-in here. In and out of reception in 30 seconds, very smooth. Some may recall that Mountainside is the 'woodsy' resort of the two, a little more rustic and without frills, still even old style TVs and VCRs! There is WIFI which is good. Perhaps because of the ownership's preference for keeping things simple and not changing things for the sake of change - each time we stay, it's easy to notice things that have been refurbished. A few years ago it was new carpeting in the villa, which still looks good. This year, they seem to have a program going on to replace entryway steps and to enhance the old wooden porches with newer, more open railings. They look great. This is outside of the renovations they had to do after the floods.

Fees are openly listed in their binder as $639.00 per week for 2013. This includes $88.00 per week for refurbishments. Like Sunchaser, they want the maintenance fees paid before allowing an II exchange. There is also a letter in the binder from the owner explaining the difference in management between Mountainside and Sunchaser.

Our experience recently with exchanging has been different too. II have made a change that means one doesn't see much availability outside of 6 months, so we have to keep checking back and being patient. But California has always been difficult in the winter months - we just figured that it was because the owners used their timeshares in J-F-M. However, we never had problems getting into the Westin, Marriott or LWR, perhaps because of the time of year we went (November).

I wonder if part of the issue nowadays is that my husband and I aren't Gold or Platinum members of II. 20 years ago, it was simple, there was only one level of membership. Like other memberships elsewhere, now there are different enhanced categories so they probably have us flagged!

We noticed that driving into Sunchaser this week, one has almost 4 different colours going - the orangy taupe of the entrance walls along the highway; the brown golf course buildings; the 2 black buildings at Sunchaser and the rest - white buildings at Sunchaser. Hillside buildings are looking quite abandoned - drainage and rust marks all along the outside stucco like Sunchaser was, balconies in a similar state. However, both complexes appear busy.

At least the golf course finished their paint job all at once, but the two complexes obviously didn't get together to create one view like it used to be. So that's odd. Not a fan of either brown or black paired with the adobe coloured roof tiles but at least the golf course painted their entrance doors the colour of the roof to lend some cohesion.

Looking forward to a positive outcome of the court case for the owners. It is still nice to come to Fairmont! Happy Canadian Thanksgiving.

We have been travelling to Mexico ,this year will be 7years and what we see happening when we try buying getaways is resorts like Villa del Palmar,Villa Del Palmer Flamingos, Paradise Village etc are all going all-inclusive. They do not like timeshare people taking up space,buying groceries and cooking for themselves. They make a lot more money doing the all-inclusive. Most of those timeshare agreements were 20 years and resorts like the Villa Del Palmer will go the All. Timeshare owners in these resorts find it hard to exchange into these resorts. Timeshare is on its way out. They did the same thing,sold timeshare, then the point system and now the all-inclusive. Save your money and stay away from Timeshare it is so corrupt.

 

[condomama]

I think that the resorts that have kept it simple, like Mountainside Villas, are going to keep their owners happy for the long run. Do the little things that need to be done, and let the people enjoy their facilities. Fairmont/ Northwynd got greedy in the heady economy years ago, veering away from the intent of the original family owners at Fairmont. They lost their way when they tried to expand overseas, buying up resorts in out of the way places no-one wanted to travel to, in order to create the Platinum Club etc. They have been "robbing Peter to pay Paul" for so long now, one wonders if there is any money left anywhere to keep their system going. Will they ever get out of Hawaii or Belize with their lawyer and judgement fees paid? Do they even have money left to paint all of the buildings the same colour up at Sunchaser? One wonders...

As part of this trip, we also travelled to the Grand Okanagan Resort complex in Kelowna two weeks ago and had a wonderful experience. The Vacation Club Bldg. is where we were put 10 years ago on an exchange, in the days when they were still knocking on everyone's door to go to the presentations. This time, we were in one of the towers, on an ordinary hotel floor. With a one week exchange we lucked out with a 2 bedroom suite. We had a beautiful king unit that stretched from one side of the building to the other, with two different balcony views. Living room/dining room, full kitchen and laundry facilities connected to a 2 Q hotel room that our family used. Of course, we ate out lots, but just as much in too. We didn't feel out of place, there was no timeshare knock or phone call, and again just friendly staff and a hassle free check-in.

Regarding Mexico, we know a few couples who bought down in the Mazatlan and PV areas when the timeshare/condo building market was hot 10-15 years ago. They did it to buy in cheap and have all the perks of exchange back in to the U.S. However, that was when All-Inclusive was only on the Mayan Coast. Now they can't even get back in to enjoy their own resort when they want to. As you say, on the west coast, they've caught on in a big way to the All-Inclusive 'money makers'.

 

[DarkLord]

After reading Jim Belfry's excellent summary (you can read it from the Sunchaser FB page), what appears to me is that even after Justic Loo makes her decision, this will far from being the end of it.

Both the owners and Northmount will likely appeal the decision and this counld drag on for who knows how long. Northmount by its own admission can survive past this year in the face of adverse decision. Ironically, if that's the case, how could Northmount successfully complete a multi year reno when these the reno surcharge isn't supposed to fund their day to day operation.

This will be a war of attrition between the owners and Northmount. Clearly, Northmount intended back in April to pull a fast one on the owners but that didn't work according to plan.

What is absolutely clear to me without a shadow of any doubts is that Northmount is not to be trusted with my money from here on. Between giving my money to Northmount or the lawyers, I choose my lawyers.

The initial investment is dead in the water for me and I won't throw good money after bad. Only from the brilliant mind of Kirk Wankel, Chartered Accountant, that it makes sense to pay the cancellation fee to Northmount now because I made a bad investment sold to me by Northmount a few years back.

 

[Beaverjfw]

Belfry comments

Would someone be kind enough to post Jim Belfry's comments. There are a few of us not on Facebook (and never plan to join )

 

[Quadmaniac]

After reading Jim Belfry's excellent summary (you can read it from the Sunchaser FB page), what appears to me is that even after Justic Loo makes her decision, this will far from being the end of it.

Both the owners and Northmount will likely appeal the decision and this counld drag on for who knows how long. Northmount by its own admission can survive past this year in the face of adverse decision. Ironically, if that's the case, how could Northmount successfully complete a multi year reno when these the reno surcharge isn't supposed to fund their day to day operation.

This will be a war of attrition between the owners and Northmount. Clearly, Northmount intended back in April to pull a fast one on the owners but that didn't work according to plan.

What is absolutely clear to me without a shadow of any doubts is that Northmount is not to be trusted with my money from here on. Between giving my money to Northmount or the lawyers, I choose my lawyers.

The initial investment is dead in the water for me and I won't throw good money after bad. Only from the brilliant mind of Kirk Wankel, Chartered Accountant, that it makes sense to pay the cancellation fee to Northmount now because I made a bad investment sold to me by Northmount a few years back.

You meant Northwynd right ?

 

[DarkLord]

You meant Northwynd right ?

In the affidavits, the company is referred to as Northmount. To me Northwynd and Northmount are related so I use them interchangeably.

 

[Quadmaniac]

In the affidavits, the company is referred to as Northmount. To me Northwynd and Northmount are related so I use them interchangeably.

Is that a related company name they're using ?

 

[DarkLord]

Is that a related company name they're using ?

http://www.kelliehamiltonlaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1&limitstart=5

"Northmont which is owned, directly or indirectly, 100% by Northwynd Properties Real Estate Investment Trust (“Northwynd REIT”). Northwynd REIT also owns, directly or indirectly, 100% of Northwynd and 100% of Northmont Limited Partnership (collectively referred to as “Northwynd”)"

 

[Meow]

How can a Reit or any other entitiy or Party own 100% of a Partnership? Doesn't a Partnership, by definition, require at least 2 Parties?
Northwynd or whatever the parent organization is called has woven a complex web in which to capture us unspecting timeshare lessees.

 

[darklord700]

How can a Reit or any other entitiy or Party own 100% of a Partnership? Doesn't a Partnership, by definition, require at least 2 Parties?
Northwynd or whatever the parent organization is called has woven a complex web in which to capture us unspecting timeshare lessees.

I guess the REIT could indirectly own 100% of the partnership. REIT could own Company A and Company B and Company A and B could own 100% of the Partnership so REIT owns indirectly 100% of the partnership.

Yes, there guys do weave a complex web of companies which is never a good thing for investors.

 

[Disshelved]

Jim Belfry's comments

Would someone be kind enough to post Jim Belfry's comments. There are a few of us not on Facebook (and never plan to join )

Here it is:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...HReAQHjLLz6Hb-6RovUENAdM4lVguNQKvl7KFck5Q&s=1

 

[RandRseeker]

The initial investment is dead in the water for me and I won't throw good money after bad. Only from the brilliant mind of Kirk Wankel, Chartered Accountant, that it makes sense to pay the cancellation fee to Northmount now because I made a bad investment sold to me by Northmount a few years back.

I guess I have a little different take on this... We opted for the choose to leave option and paid the $3200ish. We had grown tired of the whole timeshare thing - rising maintenance fees, difficulty in getting good exchanges, more and more timeshares going all-inclusive, etc, etc....BUT, we still had 18 years left on our lease and we felt trapped. We never had the expectation that we'd be able to get out of our lease without paying a penalty (I think almost all leases work this way), so when they gave us an out we took it.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see this dragging out for years, and maintenance fees just going up and up. I feel a sense of relief just to be done with this issue.

To us, timesharing isn't what it was when we acquired our unit at Fairmont. We can rent a really nice beachfront three bedroom condo on VRBO for about $1500-$2000 a week.
Just our two cents worth - and probably different than a lot of others' thoughts.

RandR

 

[ERW]

BUT, we still had 18 years left on our lease and we felt trapped. We never had the expectation that we'd be able to get out of our lease without paying a penalty (I think almost all leases work this way), so when they gave us an out we took it.

The only issue I have with the fee for breaking the "lease" is that we all paid up front for our timeshares versus a month to month type lease that we would be free of in the case of a car or cell phone. I've only used 25% of my lease.

Of course, I would agree to pay the $3000.00 if they would like to pro-rate and credit me 75% of my original purchase price, then cut me a cheque for the difference but I can't see that happening anytime soon.