[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[Skeezics_100]

Fairmont Renovations

I was reading this thread of conversation and it really peaked my interest. I've never written on blogs before so you'll have to excuse me but I don't know how to repost a previous thread but someone asked if there was a way we could collectively contact a lawyer about these outrageous fees coming in April 2013.

Well I've been trying to sell our two Sunchasers villas timeshares (with absolutely no luck) and I was just contacted by another Fairmont owner who happened to see my ad. He told me that he has been in contact with a few other owners regarding this "special assessment" payment coming in April 2013 and they are looking at launching a class action lawsuit regarding these new fees as well as the breaches to our contracts for increasing maintenance fees more than the allowable percentage.

He also mentioned that I guess if we wanted to sell our timeshares that Sunchasers will not approve of the sale (transfer the deed) unless the owner signs a contract that stipulates if the buyer defaults on their maintenance fees, then Sunchaser can go back to the original owner for payment. This is another area that they want the lawsuit to address.

I don't have all the information yet but he said that they are starting a Facebook page called "Sunchasers Vacation Villas owners grievance and action group". I couldn't find the page but asked him to email me the link.

He's looking for more owners to join the group and hopefully as a group we can get some answers or better yet.......out of our contracts.

Once I hear more I'll post it.

 

[vacationsforever2012]

Seeking solutions

Interesting Threads - lots of issues and concerns. It is time to consider solutions

What do we owners want:

1. It appears some maintenance and renovations are required? (Agree?)

And this will benefit owners - improved facilities; more attractive for trades. But at what cost? Given what many paid for these timeshares $3,000 is not necessarily outrageous. And those who bought on resale or were gifted; it is not a lot to pay for a quality resort even considerating maintenance fees ($900 for a great accomodations and locations for a week with lockout options for B side. The B side still trades well for Golden and Golf with II

Issues;
- Is this a Cadillac approach
- What happened to reserve fund from past membership fees
- Paying a 15 percent management fee; especially when it appears to be past negligence
- Trust: No audited statements
- No real owner input (surveys are opinions without much info to base them on)

2. An escape clause - selling is impossible or very difficult especially for Prime and Leisure. Giving away has been possible. (I gave away one of my units last year). But with assessment probably impossible unless it is not disclosed or paid by seller

And it appears new rules leaving current owners on hook for defaults (Is this confirmed? Can they do this? I believe this would be due to some transfers to shell corporations that then defaulted and couldn't be pursued.

HOW TO PROCEED
- A legal opinion! Surely there are some lawyers that own at Fairmont and talk of a class action suit
- What about learning from the First Nations - a fee boycott unless Northwynd (the owners of SunChaser) offer concessions - an owner group with some funding; audited statements and waive management fee on assessment (What else?)

Owners need to get ORGANIzED - Facebook idea sounds good.

 

[Jjareed]

Opting out

Just talked to Emily at the Vacation ownership services with Sunchaser and asked her if we had any options for opting out of the renovation. She said for $3200 we could get out of our contract plus this years maintenance fees.
The charge varies on how much time you have left on your contract.
I told her I wouldn't mind paying for the renovation if I could get a guarantee that another renovation project would not come up after this one is finished. They will not guarantee that another renovation will not happen in the near future.
So now I have to decide what to do.

 

[Quadmaniac]

Just talked to Emily at the Vacation ownership services with Sunchaser and asked her if we had any options for opting out of the renovation. She said for $3200 we could get out of our contract plus this years maintenance fees.
The charge varies on how much time you have left on your contract.
I told her I wouldn't mind paying for the renovation if I could get a guarantee that another renovation project would not come up after this one is finished. They will not guarantee that another renovation will not happen in the near future.
So now I have to decide what to do.

There are no guarantees with any timeshare there won't be renovation project in the future. Its a potential liability with owning a timeshare.

Instead of paying them $3200, you could always give it away. Worst case, pay the MF and include it as a bonus.

 

[konno]

I am not sure that you will even be able to give the time/deed away. There are so many on Kijijii right now and I don't think anyone will take it given all the listings. It looks like everyone is trying to get off the ship.

 

[Quadmaniac]

I am not sure that you will even be able to give the time/deed away. There are so many on Kijijii right now and I don't think anyone will take it given all the listings. It looks like everyone is trying to get off the ship.

Yep there are a lot on Kijiji. If they're asking for MF and $3200, paying MF and giving it up is much better than paying an additional $3200. The ad is free and what's the worst that can happen ? Nothing to lose, so why not put an ad out there ?

 

[RandRseeker]

Just talked to Emily at the Vacation ownership services with Sunchaser and asked her if we had any options for opting out of the renovation. She said for $3200 we could get out of our contract plus this years maintenance fees.

Did Emily say how long this exit plan is available for?

I think I might choose this option and be done with the place. I've only owned there for six years still have 15 years left. I really don't want to face anything like this again. I've already paid my 2013 maintenance fees and deposited the week with II - and my past experience is that my prime ski week doesn't fetch any good trades unless I wait until Flexchange.

 

[kevinjanny]

I wonder how long it's going to be before we get hit with the same kind of assessment at Lake Okanagan? We would like to get out of our contract as well.
It boggles my mind that you have to pay them to take back the stupid thing. Good thing we didn't pay that much in the first place.

 

[Fairever]

Discussion with Sunchaser

I had a long conversation with the person at Vacation Services who had no clue on the questions that I was asking so I was passed on to someone at Project Developments who previously worked at Royal Host.

Firstly, I questioned where in my contract a capital expenditure such that they are proposing would be allowed. Under the clause of Special Assessments it is not covered and in the clause Operating Costs and Reserve for Refurbishing they believe this expenditure is covered. Quite frankly a reserve is something that is created over a period of time. They are funds that are earmarked by a firm from its retained earnings for future use. The clause talks about the refurbishment of the villas but no specific mention to capital expenditures as suggested. Seems to me that there should be a capital expenditure clause and it does not exist. They are confusing operating costs which are short term in nature along with a reserve that is established over some period of time. This capital expenditure is neither.

I did not convert to RCI as I was concerned that there was some underlying premise why they wanted the unit holders to change. I challenged the individual on the phone that they had a conversion because the existing contract that they had was not sufficient enough to cover Sunchaser in an event such as this. This is a company that went through CCAA and the owner just inherited the existing arrangement. She first said that the two contracts were the same then later mentioned that there were some changes but she would not get into the specifics. Seemed to me there are some deficiencies in the old contract but I am not a lawyer.

I then asked what happens if I decide to pay my amount and they are not successful on having their forecasted amount of unit holders pay (they just decide to go into default). Obviously that becomes an increased liability to the existing unit holders so the number they are providing is not a firm number and could be substantially higher. I asked what they forecasted for the take up and she suggested that she had done this once before with Royal Host and the take up was around 80%. She would not provide what they have forecasted for Sunchaser and not sure why she wouldn't. Perhaps it is higher which is just another risk.

I asked about the trading power at Interval and noticed lately that requests that I was able to the get in the past I no longer could get. The response was that was because of negative customer reviews and even after the renovation is complete it is going to take a couple of years for the trading power to return. Not that comforting.

Lastly, being a little difficult I asked why a unit holder with X amount of years would pay the same amount as another unit holder that converted to a deeded title. If this business is run properly an annual reserve should be put aside for the next renovation that takes place. So if that is the case, all the unit holders are funding the next renovation for the unit holders who are now deeded or hold the units into perpetuity. That means I am paying for a renovation in the future that I may never get any use out of as my time lapses. Why would one contribute to this kind of arrangement.

I thought I would post the information that I found out for others to see. I am going to have this document reviewed and get a legal opinion on my rights as a unit holder because at the end of the day one can speculate forever what is right and what is wrong. I am concerned what I will hear back is that contract will be open to interpretation which is neither black and white. If I knew the amount they were asking for was the amount and nothing more I may consider but that is something they can't guarantee. So the amount may between $3-4,000 now but may fall out substantially higher. Who makes an additional investment into something that is a continuing liability with no upside?

 

[htusa2002]

Hi I don't know why you woud ever pay. The Royal Host I am pretty sure is the company affiliated with Banff Gate Lodges and Spa the timeshare where everyone lost all thier money and timeshare because it was a million dollar scam. This is all documented with lawyers over the past 10 years.

You have no paper work or proof of anything. They could take your $4000 and never ever do a renovation and boom suddenly claim bankruptcy. Sounds like a total scam to me, just my opinion.

 

[bigtares]

Fairmont Renovations

Skeezics--do you have that facebook link? I could not find it. Does anyone else have a link to any other site where i can get more information on the special assessment? Thanks1

 

[kahleco]

Default of payment at Sun Chasers

I have a copy of the original Schedule "H" Vacation Lease. It does not contain any section permitting a special assessment for major renovations. Interestingly enough it contains a detailed provision for Default in paragraph 12 to the effect that anyone defaulting is deemed to have agreed to allow the managing company to lease their unit during the period of default and apply the rental income to the arrears. If the default is not cured within 16 months then you are deemed to have offered to sell the unit back to the Lessor for one half of 1/40 of the original purchase price ammortized over the remaining lease period. There are no other provisions in the default clause. ie. no demant for payment or the using collection agents as they are currently doing. I wonder if the terms of this lease are still in effect?
This whole mess begs the getting together of a number of interested owners, contibution $100.00, and engaging a law firm to provide a legal opinion.

 

[tdjanzen]

I too have the original lease documents and somehow I suspect that the users that switched over to title ownership will not have the same wording.

 

[Jjareed]

Lease

I too have been reviewing my lease. From the way I understand it is that my lease contract from 1997 should still be in affect. Paragraph 38 says the lessor reserves the right to modify the lease provided that the lessor gives the lessee notice to changes. I don not ever remember receiving any notices that the terms of my lease were changing.

 

[kahleco]

Lease

When I asked them and mentioned schedule "H" I got a note back saying they were not familiar with that document and wanted me to send them a copy. Makes you wonder!

 

[TomS]

Fairmont Vacation Villas Sunchaser Time Share - Attorney help with renovation fees

All, there are many valid points here. Unfortunately, we are all much stronger as a group rather than individuals. Here are two attorneys in BC that we are working with fighting Northwynd.

Contact 1
Kellie Hamilton, Lawyer
KellieHamiltonLaw.com
Law Corporation
Barrister & Solicitor
Nelson Square
1700 - 808 Nelson Street
Vancouver, BC Canada V6Z 2H2
Tel: 604-685-7111
Fax: 604-685-7103
mailto:kh@kelliehamiltonlaw.com
http://www.kelliehamiltonlaw.com

Contact 2
Geldert Law
930 Seymour Street, Suite 2704
Vancouver, BC, Canada
V6B 1B4
Phone: +1 (778) 330.7775
Fax: +1 (778) 330.7774
info@geldertlaw.com

 

[Steve Phy]

Check this site

http://www.northwyndownersassociation.ca/

We need to band together.

 

[kevinjanny]

The site looks very similar to Sunchaser's site. Is it a legitimate site for disgruntled owners or something else manufactured by Sunchaser?:annoyed:

 

[tdjanzen]

The site looks very similar to Sunchaser's site. Is it a legitimate site for disgruntled owners or something else manufactured by Sunchaser?:annoyed:

I was wondering the same thing. I took the time to register for the site but I do wonder, why would a Owner's Association need my lease number. At that point, I cancelled the registration.

I would love to hear from others whether or not this is legit.

 

[kevinjanny]

If they want your lease # to register it raises a red flag to me right away. It even has the same colours, font, and pictures as the Sunchaser site. To me it seems as though Sunchaser may be trying to do some damage control, by establishing their own site for owners only, and getting us to vent frustrations there instead of TUG. They may be getting a bit nervous now that lawyers appear to be getting involved. I could be wrong but I guess we'll see what experience other owners have with the website. I would encourage all owners to contact the legal firms listed in a previous post and see what they have to say, as my in-laws are currently in Fairmont and have not been able to get any answers. As an owner at LOR I'm thinking this is going to be hitting us as well. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Steve Phy]

I registered without my Lease #. there were some on that site who were wondering as well. I say lets band together. I don't care what site it is. Northwynd is probably following both sites anyway> Who cares. We need to organize and go after them as a group.

 

[LarryEdmonton]

I also just entered 1234 for lease no.

It is obviously real. Join

 

[tdjanzen]

I also just entered 1234 for lease no.

It is obviously real. Join

I have the same lease number; what's the odds/

It appears that this is another way to hear about other people's frustrations and their plans. I personally know a few people that have lost their investment in Fairmont Properties and they had commented previously of how they felt that the management company had improperly accounted for a number of items. It hadn't registered with me that the same folks are now involved with Northwynd.

I hope to contact the Vancouver lawyers tomorrow.

I am just looking for some advice. Our biennial odd golden week is scheduled for this summer but I don't want to give Northwynd a dime. I think that even though I pay the 2013 maintenance fee; if I don't pay the assessment amount, they will not allow us to use our week. So why bother paying the maintenance fee?

Any thoughts?

 

[kevinjanny]

Well my curiosity got the best of me and I signed up too. It seems legit to me. I can't believe how Northwynd has got away with not releasing any audited financial statements to owners for the last 3 years.

 

[LarryEdmonton]

http://www.northwyndownersassociation.ca/

We need to band together.

Visit this site and learn results of meeting with Sunchaser. Writer has been co-opted to support the assessment. He has a good rationale so this is not meant as a negative comment