[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

DarkLord · May 30, 2013

Soccer Canada said:
So it would appear that they are in fact reviewing our statements on TUG. It would also appear they are hoping to intimidate everyone into paying saying that what we say here lacks sound advice..

I have a hard time thinking they will send collection notices amounting to millions to anyone at this point..

They used some quasi formal tone like "consulting your lawyer" to stake their case. Why would they use such confrontational tone if this whole this is not a scam? This is a scam through and through. I'll like to see Northwynd dealing with thousands of disgruntle owners. It'll only be one more day to see what trick they can pull beofre their useless self imposed deadline of May 31.

Spark1 · May 30, 2013

DarkLord said:
They used some quasi formal tone like "consulting your lawyer" to stake their case. Why would they use such confrontational tone if this whole this is not a scam? This is a scam through and through. I'll like to see Northwynd dealing with thousands of disgruntle owners. It'll only be one more day to see what trick they can pull beofre their useless self imposed deadline of May 31.

That is correct and the best way to deal with these guys is to stop all the money from flowing into their pockets. This is the last statement on their cancellation agreement.
As a reminder, until the cancellation agreement is accepted and approved by Northmont Resort Properties Ltd, you will continue to be the owner of your vacation interval agreement and responsible for the obligations therein. That means if you give them 10,000.00 to cancell they could take years to cut you loose.

DarkLord · May 30, 2013

Spark1 said:
As a reminder, until the cancellation agreement is accepted and approved by Northmont Resort Properties Ltd, you will continue to be the owner of your vacation interval agreement and responsible for the obligations therein.

This gets me the most. Just because I bought a timeshare it doesn't mean I am on the hook for anything and everything Northwynd says I am obligated to. What if a hole opens up on the ground and the entire resort falls into it? Am I supposed to sell my house to pay for it? I don't think so, there's the concept of limited liability in commercial law that Northwynd doesn't seem to grasp.

If alients took over Fairmont and I lost my investment on my timeshare, that's one thing. But I won't be on the hook to rebuild it which is exactly what Northwynd thinks I should.

Northwynd calls us OWNERS but we don't own anything. We don't have a say in how the resort should be managed or if Northwynd should be the one managing it and what kind of renovation should be carried out. And when it comes time to pay, we OWNERS have obligation according to Northwynd? I've never so blantantly been taken for a fool in my life before.

fairmontlvr · May 30, 2013

DarkLord said:
This gets me the most. Just because I bought a timeshare it doesn't mean I am on the hook for anything and everything Northwynd says I am obligated to. What if a hole opens up on the ground and the entire resort falls into it? Am I supposed to sell my house to pay for it? I don't think so, there's the concept of limited liability in commercial law that Northwynd doesn't seem to grasp.

If alients took over Fairmont and I lost my investment on my timeshare, that's one thing. But I won't be on the hook to rebuild it which is exactly what Northwynd thinks I should.

Northwynd calls us OWNERS but we don't own anything. We don't have a say in how the resort should be managed or if Northwynd should be the one managing it and what kind of renovation should be carried out. And when it comes time to pay, we OWNERS have obligation according to Northwynd? I've never so blantantly been taken for a fool in my life beforer.

I agree, what we own is TIME. Time as measured by a week, whether annual, biennual, prime golf, gold, it is TIME. We do not own the resort, we do not own the buildings, we own TIME. What was a 40 year right to use our TIME. Sure we are responsible for maintenance costs associated to the use of our time at the resort.

As I pointed out in an earlier post from a letter sent out by RVM dated December 7, 2011 in regards to the issue of Maintenance fees. " Most importantly, we are fostering a culture of accountability and financial responsibility as we recognize that we must operate the resort within the fees that we generate. "

Whatever happened to this culture?

Soccer Canada · May 30, 2013

There is no accountability. They paid pennies on the dollar to buy the place out of bankruptcy. What would be very interesting is if they were able to sell the land and buildings, would we all get our 1/52, or 1/104 of sale of our individual units as set out in the lease, I highly doubt it. In fact Ill make Northwynd a deal, each condo is worth $150-200K easy, they can sell each condo, I am a biennial owner, so even on the low side Id get 1/104 of $150000K thats $1400, they can take their 15% off the $1400.00 and take my lease. Why on this green earth would I pay double that to give them the lease so they can sell that same unit and pocket all 150k?? Sounds like one hell of a racket, maybe we should all band together and set up a timeshare management company.

Why are we responsible for paying for them to upgrade some pipe at the cost of millions and millions of dollars, and further to that why are we responsible to pay Northwynd a 15% management fee!

TS Migraine · May 30, 2013

[why are we responsible to pay Northwynd a 15% management fee![/QUOTE]

Especially when their so called "Management" has proven highly unsuccessful from a Good business perspective, and on a personal 'owner' level, it amounts to intimidation, manipulation, deception, coercion, threats, and Bullying! I am not willing to pay 15% of my bi-annual holiday money for Human Rights abuse euphemistically titled "Management!" I have marched 5 different parties through AB Provincial Court under the FTA of Alberta, concerning construction corruption with our home. I won all 5 cases, without a lawyer's help, I collected most of the money I sued for, and these bad guys weren't as blatantly abusive as Northwynd. They were sneaky, but not half so bold. Northwynd must be desperate.
The coercive letter received by the previous blogger that attempts to legally support Northwynd's position by Petition 66, which hasn't made its way through the BC court System until June 20th, blows me away. I thought I wanted to remain a TS owner, but now I just want to use my legally paid for Time and never have anything more to do with these corrupt-to-the-core people. I hope for the sake of all the other VICTIMS of this abuse, especially our trusting, vulnerable, blind-sided Senior owners, the BC Court hears our Human and Legal Rights Voice loud and clear through the Class Action suit, and stops Northwynd's abuse in its tracks- for good.

TS Migraine · May 30, 2013

Did you hear that Docken Klym lawyers spoke today about a pennies on the dollar "payout" to the people represented by the Class Action with the infamous Bre- X? That settlement took 16 years and three of the main guys never faced prison time, but two died in the interim. I am glad I paid 500 to Docken Klym, and NOTHING MORE to Northwynd. Here's hoping that the CA brings this all to an immediate end June 20th. Northwynd should have to come up with an entirely different strategy to fund their proposed property enhancing reno. Are ALL BC construction projects from the 80s and 90s having to gut there dwellings and upgrade ABS pipe to meet code? I doubt it.

truthr · May 30, 2013

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you to everyone who has been a part of this thread. :hi:

We just received our "package" last night and were overwhelmed by the contents.

Our initial reaction was to just pay to get out and be done with the whole time share thing. :doh:

But then - I googled and found this place and read and read until I just couldn't read anymore. :zzz:

Got up this morning and read some more. Wanted to respond, but thought I had to pay to join the site. :shrug:

But then just a few minutes ago whilst clicking on more buttons - I discovered I could join without having to give anyone a credit card :whoopie:

So relieved. :banana:

Fly525 · May 30, 2013

In the April 12, 2013 Freedom To Choose, Reason To Stay letter from Northwynd, page 2, they mention that the approximately 850 "regular Joes/Janes" invested nearly $44,000,000 into Fairmont debt. Is this the same money referred to in the audited financial statements which show $43,800,000 being cancelled as a result of the CCAA proceedings?

Also, what are your thoughts on the requirement (for those choosing to cancel their VIA's) on our being asked to pay Management Fee's for the next 20 years? I'm asking myself why I would consider paying someone to manage my time at Fairmont if I'm cancelling and surrendering my VIA.

truthr · May 30, 2013

I just thought of something - my apologies if it has been addressed somewhere in the past 18 pages.

Anywho - whether we pay to stay in or pay to opt out, according to the docs we must commit/pay prior to May 31st, 2013 which would then provide them with a cash flow. In addition for those who opt out that would then provide them with more units in their assets column since they would technically own the inventory. Win/Win for them. More money/more units.

With what they are proposing it will also make the resort less desirable for exchanges. So whomever stays will end up with new contracts, because of the re-shuffle of unit numbers in addition to units that are less than worthless no matter what improvements they do (if, in fact, they do any improvements at all). :annoyed:

ERW · May 30, 2013

Another question - our package (we are biennial even years timeshare holders) stated very emphatically that ***THIS IS NOT AN INVOICE*** and the enclosed information implies that we would receive our bill in November or December of this year and would be due January 31st, 2014. I have assumed that this meant we are not required to respond to the stay or go program until that time. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

truthr · May 30, 2013

ERW said:
Another question - our package (we are biennial even years timeshare holders) stated very emphatically that ***THIS IS NOT AN INVOICE*** and the enclosed information implies that we would receive our bill in November or December of this year and would be due January 31st, 2014. I have assumed that this meant we are not required to respond to the stay or go program until that time. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

We are the same - it also states "At that time, you will be entitled to the same payment options as have been provided to the Annual and Biennial Odd Timeshare Members".

If I hadn't jumped on the computer to do some research I would not have found out about form 67 (which I was too late to comply with in any event since we just received the correspondence last night). Nor any of this other hoopla ha.

They certainly aren't very transparent or helpful and then they expect us to be "patient" with them and their problems while they rape us.

ERW · May 30, 2013

Evidently Northwynd monitors this site - perhaps someone from there would like to speak up and advise if this is the case. :wave:

truthr · May 30, 2013

ERW said:
Evidently Northwynd monitors this site - perhaps someone from there would like to speak up and advise if this is the case.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

LookingForAnswers · May 30, 2013

Thanks truthr for the pointer on signing up for free.... I thought we had to pay to join in, so, we have been lurking in the background reading everyone's posts.

Our first thought was to pay to get out, but have to admit that was a hard pill to swallow - that's why we started searching the web for help.

We tried to get some insight from a lawyer who had put up a web page about what is going on at Sunchaser Villas. We tried to telephone her, sent a couple of e-mails, and finally got a call back from her about a week later. She was allocating 10 to 15 minutes per person to tell us her plans.... which I must say were quite confusing, the only clear message was to send her $400. She said she would email further instructions and information, but we didn't receive that until after I emailed her back several days later stating that we still were uncertain as to how to proceed.

Here is a copy of theEmail, we received,

I may have contacted you. $400 fees will cover our court application seeking various Options. We are asking the court to set aside Northwynd’s demand of payments for all timeshare owners: the staying ones and going ones.

please be advised that we are preparing for a court application, not a class action. My retainer is $400.00 payable to XXXXXXX. Please send a cheque and copies of two pieces of your identification. I will then send you a copy of the affidavit for you to complete and will then add you as our client. It is to be noted that an outcome cannot be guaranteed. The court will have a chance to hear the concerns and objections I intend to raise on behalf of my clients. Please submit your retainer and id before or by Friday, May 17, 2013 or by Monday May 22, 2013 (extended).

Meanwhile I suggest you send a letter, or email, to northwynd objecting their assessment as soon as you can.”

We didn't feel comfortable sending money, because it seemed too uncertain as to what the money would cover.... This is when we stumbled on Tugbb.com

Our gut was telling us just to do nothing and wait and see what takes place... but last week, I decided to try to fill the form 67 out myself, thinking that better to send one, even if not "professionally" worded, than just to ignore it. I was able to find the form online, with a help sheet how to fill it out. Then by copying the "legal entities" mentioned on the form 66 and 67 posted on Sunchaser's web page, I managed to complete the form by adding my own basic objections to the petition.

Besides the 2 days it took me to figure the form out, fill it, and send it express post to Vancouver Courts, it only cost me $10 for postage. The duplicate forms came back stamped and ready to be sent to the appropriate entities this afternoon.

We also sent the emails DaveO suggested we send this afternoon.

Hoping our 1 little vote of protest adds to the shout of objection. And I hope that others who have been lurking in the back ground as we have, also consider, that even if they aren't part of a group action - each single protest only adds strength to the mass.

truthr · May 30, 2013

Your are so welcome Looking For Answers - for anyone else that is lurking just click on the Join TUG at the top right hand corner of this page to join.

I, as well, have sent the email to the people mentioned somewhere in this thread - don't expect much from them other than their standard response.

I was not able to fill out the form 67 and get it to the courts in time since, as I said, we just received the correspondence last night.

We are originally from Alberta but are currently in BC. I went to the Calgary lawyer website and filled out their form today.

You are correct there is strength in numbers, hopefully the lawyers will at the very least be able to get some sort of extension to the court proceedings so we can be heard.

Does Northmount/Northwynd really think they can swindle a bunch of baby boomers (my apologies to those who are not baby boomers)?

After all this is the age of the internet.

Fly525 · May 30, 2013

I also have a Biennial Even lease. Here is the reply that I received from Vacation Ownership Services via email yesterday.
"For Lease xxxxxxx - you will be invoiced in approximately December, and yes we are asking for a response whether you are moving forward or participating in the cancellation post marked for May 31, 2013."

truthr · May 30, 2013

Fly525 said:
I also have a Biennial Even lease. Here is the reply that I received from Vacation Ownership Services via email yesterday.
"For Lease xxxxxxx - you will be invoiced in approximately December, and yes we are asking for a response whether you are moving forward or participating in the cancellation post marked for May 31, 2013."

Asking?? More like demanding. :annoyed:

Hey lady · May 30, 2013

Yes, thanks truth4- I did't want to pay and after your posting realized there are 2 sites, one free, one pay. Ironically Northwynd is now saying "there isn't a market" for Fairmont (timeshares). DUH ! Yet 18 months ago they wanted me to convert my weeks into Legacy for $8000. After the maintenance fees exceeded $850 it is no longer cost effective to own. I can rent a luxury condo for $4000 a month in Palm Springs in high season. My maintenance fees now exceed $2000 per year (2 units) plus exchange fees of $179 per week and I need to pack up and change units or resorts every week. No more - I'm outa here after owning for 20 years.

oneworldonerace · May 30, 2013

I am currently using Geldert Law Firm

I retained the Geldert Law Firm to represent my case in the dispute with Northwynd's unfounded demand for fees. I've been a bi-annual owner for 19 years. I encourage others to join the suit with the Calgary Firm listed in other posts or the Geldert Law Firm - to at least understand your contract and your rights.

This was the letter I received tonight from Geldert Law Firm with the results of the court appearance today:
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In Supreme Court this morning, in negotiation with Warren Milman (lawyer for the Trustee/Petitioner), Jud Virtue (lawyer for Northmont/Respondent), Kellie Hamilton for her clients and myself for mine, and on behalf of all owners affected, we were able to secure an agreement to have a consent order filed today that removes the deadline for owners to file a response by May 31, 2013.

Please find attached the Order of Master McCallum varying the Order of Master Scarth. I note that Respondent will be making this available shortly on their website but that you are also free to circulate this among the community of owners at your discretion to ensure the following is clear:

WHAT THIS MEANS /

1. The attached Order changes the previous Order of Master Scarth in the following manner:

a. Owners, or their lawyers, no longer have to file their Response to the Petition by May 31st, 2013.

b. The Court will decide on June 20th, 2013, what deadline the Owners shall have to file their Response and supporting materials.

c. The June 20th hearing shall now be used to resolve procedural issues as between the interested parties and to determine how the within issues are to be scheduled and heard. There will not be a decision made on the Petition on June 20th.

d. I will be appearing on your behalf on June 20th, 2013, to make submissions. I will be in touch with you before this hearing to discuss what I will need from you at the appropriate time.

2. This Order does not in any way obviate the need for each owner to make a written reply to the “Freedom to Choose, Reason to Stay” letter (the “Letter”) they received from Resort Villa Management Ltd. (“RVM”). I note that I will be writing RVM on your behalf tomorrow morning and will email you with a copy of the letter I send to them.

3. Each owner now has additional time to gather relevant documentation that can be used to corroborate their affidavit evidence and to ensure nothing is missed. It also provides the owners, and each of them, with additional time to reach out to the community of owners online to ensure that every own is made aware of what their rights are, what is being done and what they can do about it.

My regards,
Michael Geldert, B.A, LL.B, LL.L, Esq.
T: 778.330.7775 | F:778.330.7774 | W: www.geldertlaw..com
2704A - 930 Seymour, Vancouver, British Columbia, V6B 1B4

truthr · May 31, 2013

Thank you so much for sharing this OneWorldOneRace

I am a little confused as why we still have to respond to the Freedom to Choose, Reason to Stay deadline.

I would certainly like more information before committing to either of those options.

Edited to add: Does your lawyer have more than one client with regards to this issue?

HTD · May 31, 2013

Hi i have just discovered this forum a few days ago. I am an biennial owner and just found out about all this less than a week ago by e mail since i had moved in the last year and had not recieved anything in the mail .I'm very upset with the way Northmont brought this to our attention. They claim that these options are in our best interest. HARD TO BELIEVE, the only interest they have is getting as much money possible before the deadline. I won't be pressured into signing anything. I believe these these are just scare tactics to get want they want.My thoughts are what would happen if all the TS owners did not sign anything before the deadline? Is Northmont in that much trouble financially that they need all this money?

ERW · May 31, 2013

I too am unsure why, if the petition response has been delayed, why lessees would still be required to respond to the stay or go campaign? Actually, I have found it a little hard to understand how Northwynd could demand a decision from the owners when the petition has not been heard by the courts. I could understand presenting the case to owners and canvasing them for a response, which in turn could be presented as part of their petition. Or presenting their submission, having a decision handed down then presenting it to the owners. As it stands now, it is akin to convicting someone of a crime then having the trial later.

Am I out to lunch?

truthr · May 31, 2013

ERW said:
I too am unsure why, if the petition response has been delayed, why lessees would still be required to respond to the stay or go campaign? Actually, I have found it a little hard to understand how Northwynd could demand a decision from the owners when the petition has not been heard by the courts. I could understand presenting the case to owners and canvasing them for a response, which in turn could be presented as part of their petition. Or presenting their submission, having a decision handed down then presenting it to the owners. As it stands now, it is akin to convicting someone of a crime then having the trial later.

Am I out to lunch?

I don't think you are out to lunch. I am thinking the same thing. If the June 20th court date is to determine the date we have to respond to this, then I would think we should not respond until the date imposed by the court.

This gives all of us (and more hopefully) to choose which law firm we want to represent us, individually and collectively, and gives the lawyer time to respond on behalf of their clients.

That, IMO, is how it should have been handled right from the get go; unless Northwynd has something to hide.

oneworldonerace · May 31, 2013

Number of current people represented

IN RESPONSE TO TRUTHR QUESTION:

I was contacted by phone today by Geldert's Firm to let me know the case was before the courts, and I did ask how many others are seeking legal council. The representative from Geldert said approximately 700 to date. Now, please do not quote me on this because I don't know if that was all firms combined or their firm specifically.

The letter with the Supreme Court of BC outcome came to me tonight from the Geldert office via email. I am just passing information on in hopes that as one unified group we will have a voice and stop the Court Appeal by Northwynd to extort money from nervous owners, and disregard our rights and existing contracts.