[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[Soccer Canada]

Here is the response that I received when sending the note about extending the deadline:

Hello Mr. Alexander,



The schedule is set out by the BC Court in a Court Order. The parties do not have the right to unilaterally waive or change the Court Order. I suggest you make your views known to the Court on June 20 and that if you require any advice or assistance with that, you contact independent legal counsel.



Regards,



Jud Virtue

Partner



Norton Rose Canada LLP / S.E.N.C.R.L., s.r.l.

400 3rd Avenue SW, Suite 3700, Calgary, Alberta T2P 4H2 Canada

T: +1 403.267.9541 | F: +1 403.264.5973

Jud.Virtue@nortonrose.com

 

[renoman]

It has been suggested that all owners send the email noted below to Resort Villa Management (as long as you are comfortable in doing so).

We suspect that Petitioner and Respondent will be arguing that because some owners managed to file a response before May 31st that this is an indication that everyone had sufficient time to do so.

In order to provide the owners with a viable argument in rebuttal, a wave of emails from as many owners as possible would be of great value going forward (even if they have filed and served their Response). We want to have as many people who are willing do this in advance of May 31st.

They can do so by sending an email to the lawyers of record for both Trustee and Northmont:

Respondent (Northmont) / Judson E. Virtue: jud.virtue@nortonrose.com
RVM Email Address: resortvillamanagement@northwynd.ca
Petitioner (Trustee) / Warren B. Milman: wmilman@mccarthy.ca
ScumBag Northwynd CEO: kwankel@northwynd.ca

Copy and paste the following to the email:

As an Owner of a timeshare at Sunchaser Vacation Villas at Riverside, Hillside and Riverview in Fairmont BC that is affected by the Petition between Philip K. Matkin Professional Corporation and Northmont Resort properties Ltd., I/We hereby request: and provide notice:

1) That the hearing be adjourned to a later date to allow more owners to prepare for it;
2) That the current amount of time scheduled for the hearing is not sufficient to allow the owners to make their submissions before the court;
3) That their May 31st deadline to file Form 67 with their affidavit has not allowed them sufficient time to hire a lawyer and ensure that their submissions are complete;
4) That the “Freedom to Choose, Reason to Stay” letter has effectively put the owners under duress with respect and has not allowed owners to make a fair and reasoned decision.

All the angst we have witnessed over this is well and good, and the lawyers may be effective in their mission. But if you only want to guarantee to be able to exit (as we do in any event) I do not yet see the lawyers making suggestions that - whatever happens- there will still be an opportunity to exit at a reasonable cost. If not, then you are still on VIA as we read it, with an even higher fee on your invoices, and still being billed for future maintenance on something you no longer need.

 

[TS Migraine]

One of the four points Docken Klym have listed as a grievance response in Form 67included being able to relenquish ownership at no cost- as was stated in original contracts. They also made the point that the reno assessment fees assigned to owners was unacceptable. I asked Rob to write the four main points down for me, and he did, and then I forgot them at the Law office yesterday (consequently, I am glad I am not managing this on my own). Rob said they had MANY phone calls since the Global News report, and many other media notices, and they expected to be swamped with owners wanting into the Class Action today. He said they would be sending out an email to all who have retained them on Thursday to tell us where things are at and numbers of people signed up. I expect the FOUR POINTS they felt were legally pertinent will be included in the Thursday emailed information. As for the expense of $500.00, I was assured that if say10,000 owners sign up and pay the retainer, and actual costs are only a fraction of the money fund accumulated, the surplus would be divided up and split amongst the 10,000 as refund. In effect, Northwynd has purchased the Fairmont Property at a bankruptcy price, and now they are trying to redevelop their property with our funds. They need to realize that when they purchased the property assets, they bought the existing liabilities too. They cannot expect us to foot the reno costs to improve the value of THEIR property, and enhance their future profit margin. Our contracts are part of what they bought- delinquent maintenance fees et al. They cannot expect US to pay for the cost of their obligations as new owners of a fire sale property. It's like a divorce- you get half the assests AND half the accumulated debts- those costs are Northwynd's, not ours.

 

[Cobboy]

"PLEASE" everyone email Robert at Docken Klym in hopes that they will still take on new comers. There are two simple forms to complete and an affidavit to have witnessed by your local lawyer. Yes, $500.00 retainer, but "the more the merrier". It is absolutely necessary that this be a group effort.

 

[jg_filer]

What is form #67? Is someone going to attend the hearing and report what happens?

I think i represent a lot of owners who would be happy to file this Form 67 but are not sure what to write. I have downloaded the form. Can someone please help with what we should fill out for #'s 6 through 8? Thank you so much.

What is form 67? Is someone going to attend the hearing and report what happens, also who argues for who?

 

[jg_filer]

What is form #67? Is someone living close going to attend the hearing and share what happens and maybe who argues for who?

 

[DarkLord]

I do not yet see the lawyers making suggestions that - whatever happens- there will still be an opportunity to exit at a reasonable cost.

There's no certainty in lawsuit. But really once Northwynd knows that the owners won't go away quietly and act like lambs lead to the slaughter, you think they won't be glad to take your money and let you get out?

If I may say so, your kind of response is exactly what their scare tactic hopes to achieve.

Renoman, you'll have to make the decision you think is right. But I'll say it right here that Northwynd will make cancel option available long after May 31. In all likelihood, perhaps a even sweeter one to entice people to pay them to cancel. Remember, Northwynd has no legal ground to charge us the reno fee until the court rules in favor of their petition. Should the court rule against their petition, you think they wouldn't take a few grands from you to cancel just because it's passed their self imposed May 31 deadline?

 

[DarkLord]

They cannot expect US to pay for the cost of their obligations as new owners of a fire sale property. It's like a divorce- you get half the assests AND half the accumulated debts- those costs are Northwynd's, not ours.

Alone this line of thought, what do we, the owners, really "own"? Sounds like we don't own the resort and thus the ultimate financial benefits that come with the proposed renovation. If that's the case, why should we foot the bills and let Northwynd benefit from it?

 

[Beaverjfw]

Sunchaser Fees

I’m new to the forum and am only now getting up to speed with the issues. I have owned one annual week, bought resale in 2004, but actually never go to the resort. I simply deposit with Interval and trade. I avoided all the bs phone calls last year, trying to convert my week to RCI points or whatever that scheme was about.
(Sorry for the long winded post)

If seems that timeshare owners at Sunchaser will fall into a number of different categories. What’s right for one won’t be right for others. As I see it, you would fall into some of these groups.

1. I want out. I’ll pay the $3,167.51 just to done with these crooks.
Comment: Great if the money doesn’t matter to you and you have had it with timeshare “investments”. Are you 100% you will be off the hook or do you have to hire a lawyer just to be sure?
For every 50 or 51 owners that pay this fee they will have recovered as clear title, one unit. That unit still retains some residual value (let’s take a guess at $100,000) and they will have $3016 x 50 wk, or over $150,000 in cash in their pockets. Added to the residual unit value that’s $250,000. Imagine it about 40% of all owner did this. This would be about 100 units. They would own a 100 suite project and have $15,000,00 in the bank.

2. I want out. I’m not going to held at gunpoint by an arbitrary cancellation fee, determined by Northwyn. I believe I should be able to “quit claim the lease, returning the real estate interest to to Northwynd.
Comment: Northwynd has decided they want to collect $3,016 + tax from each unit week that gives up their timeshare. The breakdown is to collect the next 20 years of management in advance plus a deficit recovery fee that is in large part a direct result of their mismanagement and cost overuns from the renovation started on Bldg. 7000 (see last financials). How have they earned 20 yr of management fees and what are the chance they will be around then.?
In this category of owner I would expect some may be prepared to pay some lesser amount to walk away, perhaps a small transfer fee of a few hundred bucks. Keep in mind how much they would reap from fees, as outlined above.

3. I want out. I am done with paying Northwyn and will chose to default and pay nothing more to them, ever!
Comment: This will bring up the entire question of non-payment and Northwynd`s response. The first thing is that you lose all privileges at Sunchaser. If you have paid the fees invoiced in January you may not be able to use a week booked there later this year. Some of leases show a clause that says after default and non payment for 16 months the resort can buy your unit back. The clause and Norton Rose summary make it clear there is no obligation to do this. Originally this clause was there so the developer could take back the units and resell them again if the owner didn`t pay. Now that there is no resale value for the weeks, they don`t want them, a least not without a fat check to go with it.
What will Northwynd`s option be to recover their extortion fee. Well they can turn the account over to collection. They should expect a long wait and a big discount if anyone pays. They can file a court claim for the amount, seeking judgement. Plan on a lawyer at high rates and appearances in Small Claims Court. Expect vigorous defenses from very disgruntled owners. If they are awarded a judgement, try to enforce it. Hire a lawyer, file more court documents, hope to collect.
As a further note, how successful has Northwyn been on prior defaults. It is certainly noted in their documents that defaults have been rising.

4. I am happy to pay my renovation fee and keep going to a new resort.
Comment: There will be those who simply pay this fee thinking they are protecting and enhancing their investment. They should ask themselves these questions. Is this the last cash call I will ever get from Northwynd.? Are they competent to oversee the renovation planned on time and budget.? Did they demonstrate this with the current renovation.? Where will my maintenance fee be in 5 yr. $1000., $2,000? Is Northwyn entitled to a 15% fee or maybe as much as $4,000,000 in fees to do the reno? Is my money in trust and will there be any oversight from the owners or an outside agency regarding the expenditures?
Remember that at the end of 20 years, you own nothing. You will have paid handsomely to remodel the resort and continuously maintain it for 20 years, just to cede it to Northwynd in 2033.

5. The Legacy for Life owners
Don’t know much about this but I expect they will have their own issues.

Where to from here:
Obviously getting legal representation is needed and the only feasible option is in large groups. I’m too late to file a Petition myself by May 31 but it may be worthwhile joining a group. Its also important to be sure the lawyer is working toward your goal. (Walking away, staying, reducing fees, whatever)

I would like to see as a minimum, an adjournment so additional owners can become involved. Also assurances that those that paid annual dues early in the year get to use their booked week at the resort.
One thing for sure it that this can go on a long time. Between petitions, orders, affidavits, postponements, discoveries, filings, briefs, hearings and the time honored practice of burying people in paper, you should expect no quick results.

Btw, a retainer I have seen quotes lawyer rates at $650.00/ hr and paralegal rates at $175/hr. plus every other disbursement imaginable. Consider one lawyer calling another at different firm on this case. The cash burn rate could be running near $1300/hr.!

 

[tdjanzen]

"PLEASE" everyone email Robert at Docken Klym in hopes that they will still take on new comers. There are two simple forms to complete and an affidavit to have witnessed by your local lawyer. Yes, $500.00 retainer, but "the more the merrier". It is absolutely necessary that this be a group effort.

I did that today and 5 hours later got an email that stated the deadline for participating was May 29 at 12:00 pm. Which means the deadline was 5 hours prior to them sending me an email encouraging me to join the group.

Now I am thoroughly confused.

But I guess my fault for waiting so long.

If there is an opportunity to join the group at a later date, I would again consider it.

 

[Casper1959]

I did that today and 5 hours later got an email that stated the deadline for participating was May 29 at 12:00 pm. Which means the deadline was 5 hours prior to them sending me an email encouraging me to join the group.

Now I am thoroughly confused.

But I guess my fault for waiting so long.

If there is an opportunity to join the group at a later date, I would again consider it.

I was told by Rob at Docken Klym that people could still join the group after the 29th, they just would not have form 67 filed for them.

 

[TS Migraine]

tdjanzen, you can still join the Class Action after today, but if you haven't filed Form 67. you face "penalties" as stated by Northwynd if you don't have your Stay or Go papers postmarked by May 31st and in the mail. If the Docken Klym Class Action is successful in our favour, you may get your Stay or Go money back as mandated by the Judge. If enough TS owners get on board the Class Action, you may get some of your $500.00 back too since this Petition Court manoeuvre is pretty simplistic and shouldn't cost Docken Klym all of our money to pursue. If additional court proceedings are required, that may be a different matter.

 

[Spark1]

Absolutely false

Timeshare owners who changed to RCI Points that joined the Sunchaser Premier Owners Association (SPOA) Their Association is billed maintenance fees and the developer pays their renovation fees. Legacy for life pays full renovation costs.

 

[JasonO]

Lawyered Up!!

After looking ever everything over a thousand times I figured I might as well get a lawyer and fight back. I have a unit at lake Okanogan, and 2 years ago, they offered me what I thought was a sweet deal at Fairmont. I was happy, as it got me more points so I could bugger off to somewhere warm in the winter. Imagine my surprise when they now say that I'm on the hook for the renovation bill. Needless to say I'm not happy, as with many of the other owners. I would rather lose some cash on a lawyer than watch theses crooks get away with this easily.

 

[Spark1]

tdjanzen, you can still join the Class Action after today, but if you haven't filed Form 67. you face "penalties" as stated by Northwynd if you don't have your Stay or Go papers postmarked by May 31st and in the mail. If the Docken Klym Class Action is successful in our favour, you may get your Stay or Go money back as mandated by the Judge. If enough TS owners get on board the Class Action, you may get some of your $500.00 back too since this Petition Court manoeuvre is pretty simplistic and shouldn't cost Docken Klym all of our money to pursue. If additional court proceedings are required, that may be a different matter.

Do not be stupid, if you pay them nothing according to our agreement which states nothing about us paying capital expenditures , item no. 9 you will not have to try to get your money back. This case should be fought on the bases of all the breaches of our agreements.Northwynd are not nice people and once they have your money you will not get it back.

 

[TS Migraine]

DarkLord, what we "own" is ( in my case anyway) A Lease that entitles me to one week of time in a building owned by Northwynd. The Lease is a Legal document, complete with the terms it states, so no two Lease Owners can own the same week in the same building unit. However, if you don't book or use your week, then the Building Owners have the right to -rent out- your week to whomever will pay to use it, so as to not lose the profits associated with the "lease" of that unit. Paying the Building Owners to NOT USE your lease week, {GO} is absurd in my opinion, espcially if a 16 month lapse in use and maintenance fees allows them to profit off another person using the space. By SIGNING a NEW Stay or Go agreement, and paying the coerced cash, we may forfeit our legal rights under the original agreement. Fortunately, whatever the Class action determines through the court should apply to all Lease Owners equally. BUT NO- WE should not be Paying to Increase Northwynd's property improvements. They need to figure out how to manage the deficit costs they bought, and still run an eventually profitable business.

 

[TS Migraine]

Spark1, I am just repeating what I was told by Rob at Docken Klym. Petition 66 is a legal document filed with the BC court. If you got the letter, you are legally required to respond by May 31st, with either Form 67 or a letter Postmarked no later than May 31st with a decision to stay or go. If a court rules Northwynd has NO RIGHT to any money given them, they HAVE to cough it up and pay it back, unless they file Bankruptcy and claim no cash. I agree, Northwynd are not nice people.

 

[Quadmaniac]

Timeshare owners who changed to RCI Points that joined the Sunchaser Premier Owners Association (SPOA) Their Association is billed maintenance fees and the developer pays their renovation fees. Legacy for life pays full renovation costs.

So you did not get your bill ? Unlikely in my opinion, you're still an owner, so you are not exempt from the reno fees.

 

[browger]

RCI Pts. owners

Originally Posted by Spark1 View Post Timeshare owners who changed to RCI Points that joined the Sunchaser Premier Owners Association (SPOA) Their Association is billed maintenance fees and the developer pays their renovation fees. Legacy for life pays full renovation costs.


My response:
I know for a fact, and have spoken to at least 3 owners, and they switched to RCI pts, and they have received the same package as those that are still in their original lease. Not only did they pay thousands to switch to this
RCI pts plan, they are now looking at thousands more to stay or get out!
Grrrrr

 

[DarkLord]

DarkLord, what we "own" is ( in my case anyway) A Lease that entitles me to one week of time in a building owned by Northwynd. Paying the Building Owners to NOT USE your lease week, {GO} is absurd in my opinion.. By SIGNING a NEW Stay or Go agreement, and paying the coerced cash, we may forfeit our legal rights under the original agreement.

My sentiments exactly. What we purchased is a right to use the resort and it shouldn't come with the liabilities of paying for the reno accessment. What Northwynd hopes to fool owners into believing is that we own the property of the resort. That is not true, we don't own the resort property other than the rights to use it in a specific way.

There's no reason to have to pay Northwynd to give up the rights to use the resort. May 31 is come up in one day, let's see what Northwynd does when owners to pay them the reno fee and don't pay them to cancel.

 

[Spark1]

So you did not get your bill ? Unlikely in my opinion, you're still an owner, so you are not exempt from the reno fees.

I have received my bill. I live in Mexico for the winter months, not that far from the Rancho Bandaras resort. I heard many complaints from timeshare owners about Northwynd. I have helped owners down there and informed them about Profeco which is their Consumer Department for Tourist and locals. This company does not have a great track record. I have been working on a package, collecting information from owners in this area. Norton Rose states that there is 2 agreements that is used at this resort but he did not mention (SPOC). This is another scheme to sell RCI points. they have about 700 members , majority being from Fairmont and then Mesquite Nevada and Lake Okanagan. Question is who's money is the developer using to pay for this association. My package is almost complete and i will be meeting with my Member of Parliament on Friday and next week i will be meeting with a officer SERVICE ALBERTA. Everyone should be contacting their MLA's and SERVICE ALBERTA.

 

[bifft]

Our submission to Alberta Services and BC Consumer Protection

We signed up for a Timeshare in 1997 with Fairmont Resort Properties (Fairmont Hot Springs, BC.) Maintenance fees were expected and ranged from $400 - $700 per year. We paid these annual fees. In 2010 FRP went into receivership bought out buy Northmont Resort Properties. Our maintenance fee for 2011 was $1678, which we paid. November of 2012 we received a Maintenance assessment of $1900 =/- which we again paid, however now in mid May we received another Maintenance fee for some $5600, a total of $7500. We were informed that this May assessment was to be paid by May 31st or deal with penalties in addition we were given the option of opting out of the Timeshare for the sum of some $4500 also to be completed by May 31st. This most recent assessment amounts to a 347% increase over the 2011 fee. Needles to say we have not paid this final assessment, nor will we, also we have not paid the opt out fee. It's hard to imagine the thinking that would ask a senior to pay to opt out of a transaction that ostensibly should still have value. At no time in our association with NRP did we or would we entertain approving the sorts of renovations that are being proposed, those kinds of expenses should be financed through the conventional practices, (Banks, Lending institutions, etc.) NRP's approach amounts to expecting present Timeshare holders to finance the entire project when some of us quite frankly will not be here that much longer. Expecting us to accommodate the arrangement in less than a month and deal with some 6 or 7 pages of legalese is, quite ludicrous. Thank you so much for allowing me this opportunity to vent. :annoyed:

 

[DarkLord]

It's hard to imagine the thinking that would ask a senior to pay to opt out of a transaction that ostensibly should still have value.

Sorry to hear about your story, Bifft, but we are all on the same boat. You raise a good point about the opt out option presented by Northwynd. It is really odd if an asset still has value, why would Northwynd even guess that some owners will opt out, by paying them a few grands no less?

It is almost as if Northwynd knew that the timeshare has zero value, probably by watching the zero resell market in the last few years, assumed that some owners already though the same way because of the ridiculously high MF and thus gave us the opt out option.

But if Northwynd knew the timeshares are not worth the paper they are written on, why proceed with the renoation then? Freudian slip on Northwynd's part, that's my conclusion.

 

[Soccer Canada]

Here is what I received in response to my letter to Northwynd:
Dear Robert,



Thank you for your letter,



At this time, we must reject your offer as your claims of breach of contract and the rights you are trying to ascribe to said breaches has no basis.



We have asked your group on multiple occasions, as we do with all of our timeshare owners who have questions about their rights and responsibilities under their vacation interval agreement, to seek legal advice.



You have no legal right to terminate your payments. If you maintain this position and go into default, you will be liable for all amounts owing, as well as interest costs, and legal costs that are incurred in pursuit of collecting on that default.



It has come to our attention from reviewing the www.tugbbs.com website (post #193) that the leader of your group is now soliciting members for funds to consult a lawyer which should lead you to question what legal advice has been received to date.



We strongly urge you to ask your group for a detailed legal opinion validating the claims that you are making and that you seek your own independent legal review of your vacation interval agreement if you are unsatisfied with the information that you receive.



On April 29, 2013, the Freedom to Choose, Reason to Stay package was mailed to all of our timeshare members. In addition, the materials are available on the www.sunchaservillas.ca website.



We would specifically like to refer you to the Order Made After Application by Master Scarth of the Supreme Court of British Columbia (the “Order”) in relation to the petition by the trustee of the timeshare regime.



We strongly believe that our realignment plan is in the best interests of our timeshare members and look forward to the Supreme Court of British Columbia validating our position. At the same time, we fully support our timeshare members having the opportunity to be a part of the process and being heard if they disagree.



If you and your legal counsel believe you have a valid position to reject our plans for Sunchaser Vacation Villas, this is your opportunity to contest the process in a proper legal fashion. We urge you and your legal counsel to review the Order and act in accordance with it.



As a reminder, you are responsible for paying or enrolling in a payment plan for the renovation project maintenance fee by May 31st, 2013 or you will be in default of your obligations irrespective of the impending court hearing.



Once you have reviewed the Freedom to Choose, Reason to Stay package, please feel free to contact Vacation Ownership Services at 1-877-451-1250 or reply to this email if you have any questions. Otherwise, we look forward to receiving the paperwork for whichever option you select.



Best Regards,







Vacation Ownership Services

Northwynd Resort Properties Ltd.

5799 3rd Street SE

Calgary, AB T2H 1K1

 

[Soccer Canada]

So it would appear that they are in fact reviewing our statements on TUG. It would also appear they are hoping to intimidate everyone into paying saying that what we say here lacks sound advice..

I have a hard time thinking they will send collection notices amounting to millions to anyone at this point..