[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[Tanny13]

Well that's all good that it was agreed upon by both sides (two men with the same interest)......but they just forgot the third party which is me. I never got to examine, or have any input into the so called settlement. How can that be legally valid? It's misrepresentation of my legal rights. I'm forced into a settlement which I never accepted or consented to. It's no different then being raped by ( two men with the same interest) and not giving my consent. Does that make it ok in this country?

Did you sign the settlement agreement?

 

[Petus@18]

"...legal and factual..." Sorry, you've been inconvenienced by the Geldert Group seeking a legal affirmation of their Lease Agreement. But this is Canada and while justice doesn't always prevail, we do retain the right to seek resolution of commercial disputes through the courts of law.

Northmont won their BC Court case because they were lucky. They couldn't have imagined that Michael Geldert would swing and miss at the capital cost / operating cost issue in court (Jeke, 262-265). Actually, He didn't even swing. He stood in the dugout watching, oblivious to what was of fundamental importance. Michael Geldert doesn't understand the 'inside baseball' of litigation. From the transcripts, it appears he failed even to notice the Judge pointing to where he should take his case. Failing to establish that the lease agreements restrict the expenses to be covered by Maintenance Fees to: repairs, maintenance and other 'operating costs' necessary to execute ONLY the annual operation of the property (remember its a property, #NAFR) as validated by past operating practice was, in my opinion, complete incompetence. Not to mention failing to pursue other aspects of the CCAA, Northmont's disregard for Judge Loo's directions, and failing to establish how the RPF was not a commercially viable solution to Fairmont's problems.

When I bought in 1999, not a single Director of Fairmont, not a manager for Fairmont, not a sale person for Fairmont and certainly not a lessee imagined the contract would be interpreted to allow for lessees to pay for repairs and renovations that cost into the tens of millions and spanned multiple years to complete. Not a one.

What we have here is some Wonk, ignoring the cooperative spirit of the lease, parsed it down to fragments of clauses, seized upon and exploited the Lease's vague wording. All this came years after it was written and, despite years of operation wherein the cooperative spirit, two parties working toward a common goal, of the lease and the operation of the property (#NAFR) were aligned.

I'll tell you what is not factual. The whole darn thing. The statements of claim, from $20,000 to $100,00 payable to Northmont, are not compensating Northmont for money they could have earned. It's not compensating Northmont for money they were forced to spend. The statements are mostly interest charges. Some of that interest is based on a trumped-up estimate of work that in its entirety never was intended to be and will never be completed. Besides interest on a project that was never to be completed, there is the arbitrary exit fee. The actual Maintenance Fee is a small part. Northmont is getting their money for nothing.

Know what else is factual? Its a fact Northmont failed to do as they committed to do while negotiating under the Companies' Creditor Arrangement Act.

Know what else is factual? Northmont failed to establish a lessees association as they were instructed to and committed to doing while negotiating under the CCAA and, again by Judge Loo.

Know what else is factual? Northmont failed to pay their share of Maintenance Fees as directed by Judge Loney Loo. Not just for one year, but all years.

Know what else is factual? Most of this money will not go to the benefit of the property (#NAFR). That's right Judge Loo; it will only line the pockets of Developers. It will go to Wankel and Sunchaser in Barbados. I mean, "IF NOT THEM THEN WHO?", am I right?

If Northmont were truly in the resort business they would drastically lower the statements of claim to levels that are reasonable and that people can afford to pay and, they would work to rebuilding the public's trust of and confidence in timeshare developers. The second they closed their sales department their motives were obvious. The second they charged people to leave their motives were obvious. Seriously, what is to be gained by a corporation (its just Wankel I know but a corporation nonetheless) invoicing people for amounts of money they know they will never collect anyway? Why? What is to be gained by ruining these lives? What kind of person wants this on their conscience? And, Judge Young, are you really going to let this gross misconduct, this gross abuse of the judicial system, to happen in your courtroom?

This is a final act. Wankel will go away and Northmont will go away. Having perpetrated this heinous injustice they do not have the moral Freedom to Choose to Stay. They have to leave the Columbia Valley, Western Canada, the entire Country most likely. This is a naked, unabashed covetous craven cash grab, that signals what's to come next for the TSWOWs. I can hear the call now: "Hello this is Diamond Resorts." "Hello, this is Kirk Wankel, have I got a deal for you, ..."

Unfortunately for all of us, TSWOW included, that appears "legal and factual."

#NAFR

I received this message today in reply to my message to the Honourable Paul Crampton
----
Good morning

Upon review of your correspondence, I do not consider it appropriate for the Office of the Chief Justice to intervene in this matter, which appears to relate to solicitor-client relations in the context of settlement discussions in a private civil matter (which would not be in the jurisdiction of the Federal Court in any event).

In passing, I note that although you suggest that your lawyer has settled the case without your consent, the document that you provided me suggests that he is, in fact, seeking his clients’ consent for the proposed settlement. This is, I think, standard practice to settle a legal dispute (i.e., to get the consent of the parties). If you disagree with your counsel’s proposal, you may wish to attempt to resolve the matter with him directly, or possibly get independent legal advice on the proposed terms of settlement. That said, it is not possible for the Office of the Chief Justice to conduct a detailed review or provide legal advice on this matter.

Regards, Andrew

Andrew Baumberg
Legal Counsel / Conseiller juridique
Federal Court / Cour fédérale
(613) 947-3177
andrew.baumberg@fct-cf.gc.ca
------
I sent him another message making it clear how MG obtained everyone's signatures by concocting a document that will help him to cover his lies and unethical behavior. I also provided him with more information about Northmont and Wankel's history of scams and that Justice Loo made a mistake in her ruling because of our "lawyer"'s incompetence.

I would like to invite you and everyone in this forum to send him a message as well, that way we will demonstrate that is not only 2 individuals venting but in fact, we are over one thousand people being affected. Ask that your message be forwarded to The Honorable Paul Crampton. I hope you think this is worth doing.

 

[Petus@18]

I am willing to meet and bring a friend who also has a Fairmont Timeshare, if there is enough response and there is some course of action we can all figure out.

Could we join by phone?

 

[Scammed!]

Did you sign the settlement agreement?

No I have not signed the agreement yet.

 

[Punter]

.... follow Danielle Smith tomorrow and phone in to let her know. She will spread the info about the meeting.

Good advice. Call in to her show @ 403 974 8255.

 

[fairmontlovers]

Count me in for the meeting Tuesday night. I am looking forward to hearing what the lawyer has to say tomorrow on Danielle's show.

My bill for 1 Annual Gold and 1 Biennial Prime Golf is $35,000. Of note, I bought my Biennial Prime Golf in 2011 off of Ebay for the sum of $1.00. Used only once. Thinking, what have I got to lose? Afterall, it is only a Leasehold Interest.... Had no idea of the place going into receivership or the forthcoming scheme by Northwynd.

 

[CleoB]

Well that's all good that it was agreed upon by both sides (two men with the same interest)......but they just forgot the third party which is me. I never got to examine, or have any input into the so called settlement. How can that be legally valid? It's misrepresentation of my legal rights. I'm forced into a settlement which I never accepted or consented to. It's no different then being raped by ( two men with the same interest) and not giving my consent. Does that make it ok in this country?

Complain to the law society.

 

[CleoB]

My friend just called me to say that she believes that she successfully got out of her timeshare agreement with a resort company in Alberta. She said that she called the TS company, explained how the timeshare was no longer of use to her and they sent her papers to sign and charged her $1000.00 to leave. They even let her out just prior to having to pay her Jan 31st maintenance fees. I hope that she is truly rid of her timeshare, and if she is, it becomes crystal clear what the motivation has been for Northmont all this time (I think we all get it by now). It appears that a legitimate vacation company is willing to work with its clients. Hmmm...

Would your friend be willing to call into Danielle Smith show tomorrow and explain her situation? It would sure let others know why Northmount is really in this.....money grab.

 

[CleoB]

I received this message today in reply to my message to the Honourable Paul Crampton
----
Good morning

Upon review of your correspondence, I do not consider it appropriate for the Office of the Chief Justice to intervene in this matter, which appears to relate to solicitor-client relations in the context of settlement discussions in a private civil matter (which would not be in the jurisdiction of the Federal Court in any event).

In passing, I note that although you suggest that your lawyer has settled the case without your consent, the document that you provided me suggests that he is, in fact, seeking his clients’ consent for the proposed settlement. This is, I think, standard practice to settle a legal dispute (i.e., to get the consent of the parties). If you disagree with your counsel’s proposal, you may wish to attempt to resolve the matter with him directly, or possibly get independent legal advice on the proposed terms of settlement. That said, it is not possible for the Office of the Chief Justice to conduct a detailed review or provide legal advice on this matter.

Regards, Andrew

Andrew Baumberg
Legal Counsel / Conseiller juridique
Federal Court / Cour fédérale
(613) 947-3177
andrew.baumberg@fct-cf.gc.ca
------
I sent him another message making it clear how MG obtained everyone's signatures by concocting a document that will help him to cover his lies and unethical behavior. I also provided him with more information about Northmont and Wankel's history of scams and that Justice Loo made a mistake in her ruling because of our "lawyer"'s incompetence.

I would like to invite you and everyone in this forum to send him a message as well, that way we will demonstrate that is not only 2 individuals venting but in fact, we are over one thousand people being affected. Ask that your message be forwarded to The Honorable Paul Crampton. I hope you think this is worth doing.

I don't know what your original letter was to Crampton but if you do reply again you should tell them that Canada is not protecting the timeshare consumers. Provide them with these two links.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Hope-for-timeshare-victims...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Timeshare-horrors-fresh...

https://www.insidethegate.com/2018/...-alleged-elder-abuse-against-senior-citizens/

 

[CleoB]

Just a thought. Instead of meeting you may want to consider staging a rally/demonstration at the Provincial Courthouse in Calgary.

 

[DisgustedinWA]

What would happen if all or some of the owners involved in this "settlement" decided to pay our statements in full and not opt out of the resort? Wouldn't that money (along with all the interest and fees paid by the others) have to go to the trustee to be put in the operating fund for the resort? Then we organize these owners and get an attorney to advise us on how to form lessee's association. We would insist on an independent auditor to monitor the money we paid in. If we can get 51% of the lessees to agree, we could replace the lessor as the manager and trustee. Then we could improve the resort to a real 5 star resort and run it like a real time share. Any excess money we paid for interest (after legal fees of course) could be used to lower future maintenance fees. At least we'd be getting something for our money. Any thoughts? Time is of the essence of course.
I asked MG this last night and he said what I am suggesting would have come together years ago if it were possible. The reality is that the vast majority of this group had one objective – to get out as inexpensively as possible. The majority have been pleading with his office for over a year to get that done? Obviously, we didn't think we would be working with these $ amounts. I'd like to know if this is legally possible.
I appreciate your efforts as we haven't got anywhere to go down here.

 

[F. Hugh Wankel]

Hello folks,

we did hear back from Service Alberta - not sure what reviewing will entail? The positive is that they are receiving a high volume of emails. I'd encourage everyone that has not already done so to contact Stephanie McLean's office.


"We are getting a high volume of emails and calls with regards to this topic. I am emailing you to let you know that we did receive your email and will be reviewing it soon.

Thank you for your email.

Sincerely,

Joelle Lyn
ARTS Coordinator for
Service Alberta & Status of Women
780-422-6880"

 

[FairSun]

We are in the process of getting out of Panorama resort up the road from Fairmont, only because due to health issues we are not using it. It actually has a board and volunteers that assist, very well run, cost to leave is around 3 grand.

I hope your health improves soon! Your resort at Panorama sounds well run. Five years ago we could have paid $3,000 to leave Sunchaser. However, back then that amount seemed atrocious, absolutely wrong and contrary to what our lease agreement stated. Oh to turn back time, knowing what we know today about the company and the character of the ruthless, conniving people behind it.

 

[Hey lady]

What would happen if all or some of the owners involved in this "settlement" decided to pay our statements in full and not opt out of the resort? Wouldn't that money (along with all the interest and fees paid by the others) have to go to the trustee to be put in the operating fund for the resort? Then we organize these owners and get an attorney to advise us on how to form lessee's association. We would insist on an independent auditor to monitor the money we paid in. If we can get 51% of the lessees to agree, we could replace the lessor as the manager and trustee. Then we could improve the resort to a real 5 star resort and run it like a real time share. Any excess money we paid for interest (after legal fees of course) could be used to lower future maintenance fees. At least we'd be getting something for our money. Any thoughts? Time is of the essence of course.
I asked MG this last night and he said what I am suggesting would have come together years ago if it were possible. The reality is that the vast majority of this group had one objective – to get out as inexpensively as possible. The majority have been pleading with his office for over a year to get that done? Obviously, we didn't think we would be working with these $ amounts. I'd like to know if this is legally possible.
I appreciate your efforts as we haven't got anywhere to go down here.

I've thought of the same approach. I don't think that all timeshare people wanted out initially. Many expected clarification from the legal people so that people could make a decision. About MG's statement that if this was possible it would have come together years ago is part of the same spin he's been giving us since day 1.

 

[Petus@18]

I don't know what your original letter was to Crampton but if you do reply again you should tell them that Canada is not protecting the timeshare consumers. Provide them with these two links.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Hope-for-timeshare-victims...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Timeshare-horrors-fresh...

https://www.insidethegate.com/2018/...-alleged-elder-abuse-against-senior-citizens/

My original letter was fine and I did sent a reply. My post was mainly to share the contact information so others in this forum can follow up with their own letters (if they wish) to demonstrate that there is no just 2 people showing the facts of this scam but in fact, this corrupted company and lawyer's malpractice have affected thousands of us. If you want you can send them the links. Thanks.

 

[Bewildered]

I have read all these postings over the past days. And am new to the forum. I too have been assesses $42K and as all of you am totally surprised by this outcome. As someone said previously this seemed like such an unbelievable situation that i paid for a timeshare in 1994 (can't quite remember when) then the place goes into bankruptcy (presumably all of my entitlement for the time i paid for is gone) and then i assumed that would b e the end of it...i would just loose my investment. But then it gets bought out of bankruptcy and then they are asking me to pay to release myself...just seemed like an illegal ask. Then this reno fee...I own a timeshare not an interest in this property so how can they ask me to pay for the renovation fees...im thinking cmon that is impossible. All through this time I'm thinking this has just got to go away soon cuz someone will challenge North mount in some lower court to show how crazy this situation is and our legal system and "timeshare law" would protect consumers from this sort of injustice. But to my surprise this actually keeps going. Well OK then the legal battle starts...all of us hire Gilbert and then I'm thinking OK this will soon be over. Then all the years go by and Northmount actually wins this thing in our Canadian court system. Wow they must have good lawyers. OK well then I thought I will be charged the $8000 fee that was assessed to be in 2013 and that would be the end of it. Which is completely unfair but well thats how legal battles go sometimes (I've been involved with many over my business career and you just never know how it can go). But then they actually are able to charge for the fees every year (of a time i was prohibited from using jousting this time) and then charged 27% compounded interested for it all. It just seemed so wrong on so many levels and so illegal on so many levels that this actually can't be happening to us in this country. (i get this if it was Mexico or something)

I live in Calgary and my guess is that there are many of us who live here as well. I would like to suggest that we get together in person next week Tuesday evening to further discuss this and to see if there may be some solutions we can still pursue. I read with interest the appeal that has been started. The letters people have been writing to the Judge. The consumer affairs possibility. The RCMP angle. Anyway i think we should just get ourselves organized and see there is something we can do.

I am willing to pay for and book a room at the Carriage House in Calgary this coming Tuesday at 7:00. Lets get the word out to as many people as we can on this forum, twitter and Facebook. Let Danielle from the talk show know we are getting together so she can get the word out. Lets get the news channels know we are getting together. I don't have access to all of these things (twitter Facebook etc) so can you all help to get this moving forward. I would also be willing to reach out to some legal firms to see if someone can help us well. I have some experience in litigation and may be able to bring someone forward (or if anyone has any suggestions for legal firms)

If i get enough positive response i will confirm the meeting room. Let me know what you all think. Others from BC or Edmonton could come as well. Lets get as many people involved as possible.

I don't have huge time as i have my own business to run so any help would be great. This needs a lot of urgency as we are running very thin on time.

If people would put their effort into making all the calls some of us have (Justice Minister, Service Alberta, AB and BC legal, etc,etc we would have 1000 calls and something would be done. I applaud your effort but you realize that you're going to have 200-300 people with the same problem all wanting to vent (because it feels good). People should be venting on the government and Judge Youngs office for leaving us in no mans land. Our US friends should be doing the same with the BC officials.
Unless you are looking to band together with new legal for a Hail Mary or have the media, the UCP Calgary representative or other MLAs, what will be accomplished?
I said from the beginning there is enough people probably in Edmonton alone to demonstrate at the legislature or maybe the Calgary courthouse if there is enough of you. Times a tickin

 

[Bewildered]

I've thought of the same approach. I don't think that all timeshare people wanted out initially. Many expected clarification from the legal people so that people could make a decision. About MG's statement that if this was possible it would have come together years ago is part of the same spin he's been giving us since day 1.

What would happen if a bunch of us got proper legal and proposed our own settlement to get out of this nightmare? Change my 26.8% to the legal 5.5% that Judge Young should have ruled on during all this litigation and I’d be out in a heartbeat. The Fairmont timeshare ship is sinking fast!

 

[fairmontlovers]

RIght from Kirk Wankels LinkedIn page:

"Envisioned, developed, and implemented an industry redefining business plan. Took over a floundering organization on the brink of receivership and turned the business around to generate a substantial recovery of investors funds. Created and implemented the legal strategy for the business plan including pro-actively taking the resort realignment plan to the Supreme Court of British Columbia."

I think it should read more like:

"Envisioned and developed a plan to take a previously known 5 star timeshare resort and allowing it to deteriorate to the point that unsuspecting timeshare lease holders would be required to foot the bill for capital improvements. For those in disagreement, give them an option to leave taking those funds back to the investors. Create a legal strategy for those electing to fight/disagree with this plan to drag the process through the courts for 4 years and then charge them a large exit fee and also charge almost criminal interest rate on maintenance fees. Causing great hardship, mental stress and financial ruin for thousands"

 

[truthr]

Here is the results of the survey we did

 

[aden2]

It is confusing what country we live in as I thought we have freedom to speech.

 

[Petus@18]

Here is the results of the survey we did

I would like to ask what was the purpose for the survey? What are your plans now (eg were the results obtained of any use that could help our case? would these results be incorporated in any way and into a plan that your secret group may be working on?) Why was the need of having so many different groups when we all are in the same mess?
Thanks for sharing.

 

[truthr]

I would like to ask what was the purpose for the survey? What are your plans now (eg were the results obtained of any use that could help our case? would these results be incorporated in any way and into a plan that your secret group may be working on?) Why was the need of having so many different groups when we all are in the same mess?
Thanks

The survey was available here on Tugbbs as well, not just for any FB group.
What are the plans? No definitive ones yet, just did it to get a feel for what people are thinking/doing/feeling.
I did not do put it together just posting it for the one who did.

 

[truthr]

REMINDER: Tune in tomorrow Friday January 19th at 11 am (MST/AB time) to the Danielle Smith Radio Show.

 

[little frog]

I have read all these postings over the past days. And am new to the forum. I too have been assesses $42K and as all of you am totally surprised by this outcome. As someone said previously this seemed like such an unbelievable situation that i paid for a timeshare in 1994 (can't quite remember when) then the place goes into bankruptcy (presumably all of my entitlement for the time i paid for is gone) and then i assumed that would b e the end of it...i would just loose my investment. But then it gets bought out of bankruptcy and then they are asking me to pay to release myself...just seemed like an illegal ask. Then this reno fee...I own a timeshare not an interest in this property so how can they ask me to pay for the renovation fees...im thinking cmon that is impossible. All through this time I'm thinking this has just got to go away soon cuz someone will challenge North mount in some lower court to show how crazy this situation is and our legal system and "timeshare law" would protect consumers from this sort of injustice. But to my surprise this actually keeps going. Well OK then the legal battle starts...all of us hire Gilbert and then I'm thinking OK this will soon be over. Then all the years go by and Northmount actually wins this thing in our Canadian court system. Wow they must have good lawyers. OK well then I thought I will be charged the $8000 fee that was assessed to be in 2013 and that would be the end of it. Which is completely unfair but well thats how legal battles go sometimes (I've been involved with many over my business career and you just never know how it can go). But then they actually are able to charge for the fees every year (of a time i was prohibited from using jousting this time) and then charged 27% compounded interested for it all. It just seemed so wrong on so many levels and so illegal on so many levels that this actually can't be happening to us in this country. (i get this if it was Mexico or something)

I live in Calgary and my guess is that there are many of us who live here as well. I would like to suggest that we get together in person next week Tuesday evening to further discuss this and to see if there may be some solutions we can still pursue. I read with interest the appeal that has been started. The letters people have been writing to the Judge. The consumer affairs possibility. The RCMP angle. Anyway i think we should just get ourselves organized and see there is something we can do.

I am willing to pay for and book a room at the Carriage House in Calgary this coming Tuesday at 7:00. Lets get the word out to as many people as we can on this forum, twitter and Facebook. Let Danielle from the talk show know we are getting together so she can get the word out. Lets get the news channels know we are getting together. I don't have access to all of these things (twitter Facebook etc) so can you all help to get this moving forward. I would also be willing to reach out to some legal firms to see if someone can help us well. I have some experience in litigation and may be able to bring someone forward (or if anyone has any suggestions for legal firms)

If i get enough positive response i will confirm the meeting room. Let me know what you all think. Others from BC or Edmonton could come as well. Lets get as many people involved as possible.

I don't have huge time as i have my own business to run so any help would be great. This needs a lot of urgency as we are running very thin on time.

My husband and I are on board with your suggestion but we need everyone to bring credentials to keep this meeting private from Wankel et al. Suggestion - bring photo ID plus a copy of your 2018 fee statement that was attached to the Geldert email on 18 January. I will send you a note in conversations to volunteer for screening at the door.

 

[Wankel=crook]

Just a thought. Instead of meeting you may want to consider staging a rally/demonstration at the Provincial Courthouse in Calgary.

I tried to set up a rally not much interest