Spark1
newbie
If this is fraud do not pay any money to these crooks. Why do you think they have a F rating with the BBB in Calgary. They are not honest people
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[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!
- Thread starter htusa2002
- Start date
If this is fraud do not pay any money to these crooks. Why do you think they have a F rating with the BBB in Calgary. They are not honest people
Spark1
newbie
I like what Aden did item no. 238. The Alberta gov't protects timeshare owners from scams and fraud. They protect Alberta residents because this company is from Calgary Alberta. Check Service Alberta website and read Fair Trading Act. And print off the government of Alberta Complaint form. They could also protect out of province timeshare owners when dealing with a Alberta Company.
the Cancellation Agreement
7. the following additional terms form part of the agreement
a). "This agreement shall be construed, interpreted and applied in accordance with, and shall be governed by, the laws of Alberta and the laws of Canada applicable therein."
7. the following additional terms form part of the agreement
a). "This agreement shall be construed, interpreted and applied in accordance with, and shall be governed by, the laws of Alberta and the laws of Canada applicable therein."
disillusioned
newbie
Running out of time
On the Sunchasers web site under the Renovation Program tab, in the petition between Philip K. Matkin (Petitioner) and Northmont Resort (Respondents), entitled "S132760 BC Supreme Court Order of Master Scarth" paragraph 2 it states "Any Owner wishing to respond to the Petition or make submissions at the hearing on June 20, 2013 (or such later date to which it is adjourned) shall file and serve on the Petitioner and the Respondents of record, on or before May 31, 2013, their Response in Form 67 and any affidavit or other materials upon which they intend to rely at such hearing.”
This is the Petition where the Trustee is questioning the Court if Northmont can actually do what they are telling us they are doing and asking the Court for advice!
On the Sunchasers web site under the Renovation Program tab, in the petition between Philip K. Matkin (Petitioner) and Northmont Resort (Respondents), entitled "S132760 BC Supreme Court Order of Master Scarth" paragraph 2 it states "Any Owner wishing to respond to the Petition or make submissions at the hearing on June 20, 2013 (or such later date to which it is adjourned) shall file and serve on the Petitioner and the Respondents of record, on or before May 31, 2013, their Response in Form 67 and any affidavit or other materials upon which they intend to rely at such hearing.”
This is the Petition where the Trustee is questioning the Court if Northmont can actually do what they are telling us they are doing and asking the Court for advice!
DarkLord
TUG Member
For those who worry not paying Northwynd could ruine your credit history, please note that they are a F rating company with BBB. If hundreds and thousands of us report to the credit rating agency that Northwynd is a rogue vendor, they couldn't touch our credit rating.
ERW
newbie
I'd like to complete the form 67 and send it to the courts, but does doing so require me to attend the hearings in June?
Secondly, I think the more noise created (BBB, Alberta Fari Trade Act) the more it ties Northwynd's hands up.
I am calling the Northwynd office in the next day or so and telling them that I am undecided and will not be agreeing to any proposed options until the hearing is held in June and a decision is handed down.
I find it difficult to believe that a judge would render a decision that affects 14,000 + timeshare holders/owners without a full representation from those affected. That is why I feel it is important to respond to the BC Courts with a completed Form 67 stating the reasons this is not a legitimate option. I do not beleive that a survey or a heavy handed "Act or die by May 31st" is a fair way of dealing with the lessees/owners.
I would like to see the judge come back and state that an independant group must solicite the opinions of the lessees/owners. Also, if this is allowed, any funds collected would be set aside in trust on behalf of the lessees/owners so that if Northwynd were to suddenly default, the funds are protected on behalf of the timeshare holders and not disappear into someone's pockets.
Secondly, I think the more noise created (BBB, Alberta Fari Trade Act) the more it ties Northwynd's hands up.
I am calling the Northwynd office in the next day or so and telling them that I am undecided and will not be agreeing to any proposed options until the hearing is held in June and a decision is handed down.
I find it difficult to believe that a judge would render a decision that affects 14,000 + timeshare holders/owners without a full representation from those affected. That is why I feel it is important to respond to the BC Courts with a completed Form 67 stating the reasons this is not a legitimate option. I do not beleive that a survey or a heavy handed "Act or die by May 31st" is a fair way of dealing with the lessees/owners.
I would like to see the judge come back and state that an independant group must solicite the opinions of the lessees/owners. Also, if this is allowed, any funds collected would be set aside in trust on behalf of the lessees/owners so that if Northwynd were to suddenly default, the funds are protected on behalf of the timeshare holders and not disappear into someone's pockets.
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DarkLord
TUG Member
No, you will not be required to attend the hearing. A petition to the BC court is done by affaidavit, there'll be no witness presented, not even from Northwynd. The judge will rule only on the evidence (the affaidavit) presented to him/her.
That's why it is of paramount importance for the owners to make submission before the end of May.
ERW
newbie
Although I am sure this would not be taken seriously by Northwynd (or the courts for that matter), one of the things that bothers me is the fact that 10 years ago I paid for a 40 year "lease". So far I have used 25% of that agreed time. Therefore, the way I see it, I have 75% of the value of my purchase outstanding to be used. I would have no problem paying to buy out my lease if Northwynd in turn agrees to refund me 75% of my original purchase price.
I'm sure that would simply be laughed at but from my perspective, there is still value in the property at Fairmont - if I walk away by paying the buyout based on their terms, I'm out of pocket and they have still made a great deal of cash based on the inherent value of the property.
Just my 2 bits worth.
I'm sure that would simply be laughed at but from my perspective, there is still value in the property at Fairmont - if I walk away by paying the buyout based on their terms, I'm out of pocket and they have still made a great deal of cash based on the inherent value of the property.
Just my 2 bits worth.
ERW
newbie
Im on a roll now!
The leases many of us signed (I'm not sure if it is present in all the lease/purchase agreements) include a clause indicating a "Association of Owners" would be formed with an advisory board.
Does anyone know if this has ever been done? I've not heard of it. I think I'll request to be put in touch with this "advisry board"nd see what their reaction is. If they refuse to allow an association to be formed, could this perhaps be a means of releasing us from our agreements as breach of contract?
Thoughts?
The leases many of us signed (I'm not sure if it is present in all the lease/purchase agreements) include a clause indicating a "Association of Owners" would be formed with an advisory board.
Does anyone know if this has ever been done? I've not heard of it. I think I'll request to be put in touch with this "advisry board"nd see what their reaction is. If they refuse to allow an association to be formed, could this perhaps be a means of releasing us from our agreements as breach of contract?
Thoughts?
Spark1
newbie
I feel the same way as you do. The reason us 14500 owners with 40 year lease contracts are being asked to pay these high reno fees is this.
They knew there were significant deferred maintenace issues and that the resort would need significant upgrades to operate at is former 4-5 star level.
Theaug. 2010 disclosure statement indicated 19 million of repairs and upgrades.thew knew they would not be able toget the lesees to pay for the needed repairs and upgrades. they had to come up with a plan to convince owners to ne responsible. They brought out the Legacy for Life with the '' carrot"" of joining the RCI program. without telling the owners of the amount of repairs/ upgrades and without explaining the impact of the change, they slipped in a new clauseto the converion contract that stated that the co-owners were responsible for Capital improvements that may be needed {Intentional Misrepresentation}
From 2010 to 2012 they proceeded to contract studies to help put together a reno plan using monies that shoud have gone to resort maintenance and replacements. During this period they failed to let owners/lessees know the extent of the problem and failed to produce statements that would disclose the costs they were incurring.In this period they spent 4.5 million in excess of the budet that had been submitted to the owners. In jan. 2013 they announced the plans they had been working on with a preliminary budget of 28 to 35 million. By the time the invoices were mailed in april, they had inflated that to 50 million or 4000 per annual unit. They then brought out the bait- instead of paying 4000 why don"t you surrender your contract and we will only charge you 3000- aren't we nice guys. But you have to act by May 31 or we may withdraw this chance and you will be stuck. The real message- We need to convince you to pay before the court hearing because the court may tell us we can not charge you for the renos
fairmontlvr
newbie
Interesting info
I have been following this post and can offer the following information. We purchased a used annual golden unit at Fairmont Hillside about 8 years ago. I researched to death the resort, went on the presentations twice over a 3 years period prior to this and showed the salesmen at the last presentation a list of used units offered by a real estate agent in the area at about half the asking price of a new unit. The new 40 year units were going for about $25,000 at the time for an annual, gold lockoff unit sleeping 8 people. The real estate agent had the exact same units for sale for about half of this amount but instead of 40 years remaining, they had anywhere from 28 to 36 years remaining.
After checking the internet I found a used timeshare company located in the U.S. that sold me one for $3800 U.S This worked out to $5000 CDN including transfer fees and the first year of Maintenance fees. We thought this was a steal of a deal and have used this unit for the past 8 years.
Two years ago, when booking for the next year in advance, we were informed to do so we had to pay our Maintenance fees a full year in advance. In order to secure the prime unit we wanted we did so. We also went to several of the presentations in regards to upgrading to a point system, and also to purchase the Legacy for Life program. The sales people bragged that over 50% of the people already have switched over to this great program. We never did purchase and continued to be invited to many sales presentations.
It is clear to me that something is not right here. Their actions and also history of this company indicate to me that this is a money grab no different then the Legacy for Life program.
We love Fairmont, love the area and are hopeful that we can continue to spend many more years using the timeshare we bought. I am not about to sign up for the renovations at the end of May, nor am I about to pay them to walk away. I am a bit concerned if they can refuse me entry this summer when I come out to Fairmont to use the facility i am entitled to use, and have paid the Maintenance fee a year in advance?
Also found this information tidbit from a realtor in Fairmont, posted a year ago.
http://www.justanswer.com/canada-law/7age8-small-timeshare-resale-business-fairmont-hot-springs.html
I have been following this post and can offer the following information. We purchased a used annual golden unit at Fairmont Hillside about 8 years ago. I researched to death the resort, went on the presentations twice over a 3 years period prior to this and showed the salesmen at the last presentation a list of used units offered by a real estate agent in the area at about half the asking price of a new unit. The new 40 year units were going for about $25,000 at the time for an annual, gold lockoff unit sleeping 8 people. The real estate agent had the exact same units for sale for about half of this amount but instead of 40 years remaining, they had anywhere from 28 to 36 years remaining.
After checking the internet I found a used timeshare company located in the U.S. that sold me one for $3800 U.S This worked out to $5000 CDN including transfer fees and the first year of Maintenance fees. We thought this was a steal of a deal and have used this unit for the past 8 years.
Two years ago, when booking for the next year in advance, we were informed to do so we had to pay our Maintenance fees a full year in advance. In order to secure the prime unit we wanted we did so. We also went to several of the presentations in regards to upgrading to a point system, and also to purchase the Legacy for Life program. The sales people bragged that over 50% of the people already have switched over to this great program. We never did purchase and continued to be invited to many sales presentations.
It is clear to me that something is not right here. Their actions and also history of this company indicate to me that this is a money grab no different then the Legacy for Life program.
We love Fairmont, love the area and are hopeful that we can continue to spend many more years using the timeshare we bought. I am not about to sign up for the renovations at the end of May, nor am I about to pay them to walk away. I am a bit concerned if they can refuse me entry this summer when I come out to Fairmont to use the facility i am entitled to use, and have paid the Maintenance fee a year in advance?
Also found this information tidbit from a realtor in Fairmont, posted a year ago.
http://www.justanswer.com/canada-law/7age8-small-timeshare-resale-business-fairmont-hot-springs.html
There is another group out of Victoria that it might be worth your effort to contact. It is my understanding they will be acting on behalf of a group. I have already joined a group. The affadavid you get a form at any court house and have them witness it. You would use the same format that Kirk Wankel used, and use a number system stating when bought, what tales they told you, and when you become aware of their problems. These would be a suggestion to use in your affadavid. I hope you wrote/emaile Northwynd that you are hold funds because they violated the contract.
Disappointed W
newbie
- Joined
- May 10, 2013
- Messages
- 8
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- 0
Link for filing your own Form 67
Well, I am trying to look at this all as an unplanned journey of learning into the world of legal proceedings.
I found a link which may be helpful:
http://www.supremecourtbc.ca/sites/default/files/web/Defending-a-Proceeding-Started-by-Petition.pdf
I guess I had better get on this if it is to be submitted by May 31!
Well, I am trying to look at this all as an unplanned journey of learning into the world of legal proceedings.
I found a link which may be helpful:http://www.supremecourtbc.ca/sites/default/files/web/Defending-a-Proceeding-Started-by-Petition.pdf
I guess I had better get on this if it is to be submitted by May 31!
Get the story onto CTV
Those of you in Calgary might consider contacting Lea.Williams-Doherty@bellmedia.ca<Lea.Williams-Doherty@bellmedia.ca>; Ms. Doherty is aware of the issue however would like an interviewee to flesh out the story. Give it your best shot.
Those of you in Calgary might consider contacting Lea.Williams-Doherty@bellmedia.ca<Lea.Williams-Doherty@bellmedia.ca>; Ms. Doherty is aware of the issue however would like an interviewee to flesh out the story. Give it your best shot.
disillusioned
newbie
Copies
Do we send Form 67 just to the Court or to each of the parties involved? The letter telling Northwynd that we aren't going to pay for something that should have been taken care of through 20 years of paying maintenance fees faithfully, does that go to the court too? What about our original contract?
Do we send Form 67 just to the Court or to each of the parties involved? The letter telling Northwynd that we aren't going to pay for something that should have been taken care of through 20 years of paying maintenance fees faithfully, does that go to the court too? What about our original contract?
DarkLord
TUG Member
Form 67 and the affidavit of submission should go to the court, Northwynd and Northwynd's lawyer so 3 copies. The letter telling Northwynd to take a hike can go to Northwynd alone. You can include your original contract with the affidavit.
removal of management company
1. How does a person get a hold of the owners list to try and get approval to remove the management company?
(Anyone else find it odd the Trustee that is suppose to be looking after the owners interests has the same address as Northmont and Northwynd)
1. How does a person get a hold of the owners list to try and get approval to remove the management company?
(Anyone else find it odd the Trustee that is suppose to be looking after the owners interests has the same address as Northmont and Northwynd)
THE AVENGER
newbie
Anti Fraud
I have been in touch with the Anti Fraud Department of the RCMP. The person I spoke to was very attentive and anxious to recieve any documentation I could forward to them. It was about a week ago that I phoned them and they were very familiar with the situiation as they had had several calls in the previous few days. My sugestion is that everyone phone them, which may result in them suspending Northwynd's action. At one point in conversation, the person I talked to said "don't sign anything".
The number for the Anti Fraud Department is 1-888-495-8501
I have been in touch with the Anti Fraud Department of the RCMP. The person I spoke to was very attentive and anxious to recieve any documentation I could forward to them. It was about a week ago that I phoned them and they were very familiar with the situiation as they had had several calls in the previous few days. My sugestion is that everyone phone them, which may result in them suspending Northwynd's action. At one point in conversation, the person I talked to said "don't sign anything".
The number for the Anti Fraud Department is 1-888-495-8501
2012 and 2011 Audited Financial Statements
Well it looks like the audited financial statements for 2012 have been completed and are now posted on the Sunchaser website under the owners section. The 2011 audited financials were signed off over 10 months late due to a change of property managers and computer systems in mid 2010. Apparently they couldn't determine what the accounts receivable and deferred revenues were at the end of 2011 and 2010 due to a lack of audit evidence. You should pay attention to the qualified opinion on the December 31, 2011 audited financial statements.
The 2012 audited financial statements were due March 31, 2013 and were signed off May 14, 2013 just in time for the May 31, 2013 imposed deadline.
For fun do a bit of math and divide the total 2012 maintenance fees receipts in the audited financial statements by the amount you paid for your 2012 maintenance fees (excluding taxes) to determine how many units were paid and included in revenue. This assumes everyone pays the same amount. Compare this number to the number of vacation interval owners and vacation interval agreements listed in KIrk Wankel CA's affidavit (section 11).
On the 2012 audited financial statements you should carefully read Note 9 titled Subsequent Events and pay attention to bad debts, growing deficits, management fees, related party transactions and Note 3 which talks about Northmont's support for Building 7000.
Well it looks like the audited financial statements for 2012 have been completed and are now posted on the Sunchaser website under the owners section. The 2011 audited financials were signed off over 10 months late due to a change of property managers and computer systems in mid 2010. Apparently they couldn't determine what the accounts receivable and deferred revenues were at the end of 2011 and 2010 due to a lack of audit evidence. You should pay attention to the qualified opinion on the December 31, 2011 audited financial statements.
The 2012 audited financial statements were due March 31, 2013 and were signed off May 14, 2013 just in time for the May 31, 2013 imposed deadline.
For fun do a bit of math and divide the total 2012 maintenance fees receipts in the audited financial statements by the amount you paid for your 2012 maintenance fees (excluding taxes) to determine how many units were paid and included in revenue. This assumes everyone pays the same amount. Compare this number to the number of vacation interval owners and vacation interval agreements listed in KIrk Wankel CA's affidavit (section 11).
On the 2012 audited financial statements you should carefully read Note 9 titled Subsequent Events and pay attention to bad debts, growing deficits, management fees, related party transactions and Note 3 which talks about Northmont's support for Building 7000.
DOCKEN KLYM
newbie
Legal action - fairmont sunchasers vacation villas
Good Day;
We are a law firm located in Calgary, Alberta, and we have been asked to investigate the assessment against the owners of timeshare properties at Sunchasers Vacation Villas.
We are seeking to file an Objection with the courts in relation to the upcoming May 31. 2013 Application by the timeshare operator. We are seeking investors who wish to oppose the assessment. If you are interested in doing so, please contact our offices for further details.
Robert C. Forsyth
System Administrator
DOCKEN KLYM
403-269-3612
robert@docken.com
Good Day;
We are a law firm located in Calgary, Alberta, and we have been asked to investigate the assessment against the owners of timeshare properties at Sunchasers Vacation Villas.
We are seeking to file an Objection with the courts in relation to the upcoming May 31. 2013 Application by the timeshare operator. We are seeking investors who wish to oppose the assessment. If you are interested in doing so, please contact our offices for further details.
Robert C. Forsyth
System Administrator
DOCKEN KLYM
403-269-3612
robert@docken.com
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THE AVENGER
newbie
The thugs
Where can we find any accounting of where and how the monies they are asking for will be spent? They are asking for a large sum of money (over 4 times our anual maintainance fees) up front. They claim to be holding this money in trust, but what are the conditions of that trust? If we fall for this scheme, we are buying a "pig in a poke". When Northwynd goes bankrupt, (likely in the next few months), the principles of Northwynd will find a way to direct this money into their pockets. Northwynd, (who took over the assets of Fairmont when it went into recievership), was a group of investors in FRPL. They have devised this scheme to recover some of their losses.
"These people are heartless". They are asking for money from people in nursing homes, widows and widowers, people on minimum government pensions, etc. etc. I know of one 94 year old owner who was taken down to the office by her daughter where they found no sympathy and they were unbending. Another sister of mine is in a seniors residence and her husband has dementia in a nursing home and are being forced into this corner not knowing what to do about it.
THESE PEOPLE ARE "THUGS OF THE LOWEST DEGREE"
Where can we find any accounting of where and how the monies they are asking for will be spent? They are asking for a large sum of money (over 4 times our anual maintainance fees) up front. They claim to be holding this money in trust, but what are the conditions of that trust? If we fall for this scheme, we are buying a "pig in a poke". When Northwynd goes bankrupt, (likely in the next few months), the principles of Northwynd will find a way to direct this money into their pockets. Northwynd, (who took over the assets of Fairmont when it went into recievership), was a group of investors in FRPL. They have devised this scheme to recover some of their losses.
"These people are heartless". They are asking for money from people in nursing homes, widows and widowers, people on minimum government pensions, etc. etc. I know of one 94 year old owner who was taken down to the office by her daughter where they found no sympathy and they were unbending. Another sister of mine is in a seniors residence and her husband has dementia in a nursing home and are being forced into this corner not knowing what to do about it.
THESE PEOPLE ARE "THUGS OF THE LOWEST DEGREE"
Becooling
TUG Member
Anti-Fraud Centre
If you phone you are going to spend a lot of time on hold. My suggestion which I did was go to the website antifraudcentre.ca and fill out the report form. I also talked to them but filing the complaint seems to be the best method of getting your complaint registered. I would guess the more complaints they get the more likely they will investigate.
If you phone you are going to spend a lot of time on hold. My suggestion which I did was go to the website antifraudcentre.ca and fill out the report form. I also talked to them but filing the complaint seems to be the best method of getting your complaint registered. I would guess the more complaints they get the more likely they will investigate.
Undecided
newbie
Converted to RCI
Hi,
I converted to RCI in 2010 and it looks like they have amended the contract to what suits them best. I'm from BC and will most likely never use that resort again as it's just too far to drive down there. As much as I like to vacation, it just seems as the maintenance fees keep going up and up and the RCI membership fee along with the exchange fees and cleaning fees. It would be a lot less expensive taking a trip once in a while from expedia when I want and where I want. Maybe might be best just to cancel once and for all instead of dealing with all this over and over again. Cutting my losses before they become any bigger.
Hi,
I converted to RCI in 2010 and it looks like they have amended the contract to what suits them best. I'm from BC and will most likely never use that resort again as it's just too far to drive down there. As much as I like to vacation, it just seems as the maintenance fees keep going up and up and the RCI membership fee along with the exchange fees and cleaning fees. It would be a lot less expensive taking a trip once in a while from expedia when I want and where I want. Maybe might be best just to cancel once and for all instead of dealing with all this over and over again. Cutting my losses before they become any bigger.
DOCKEN KLYM
newbie
Good Day;
We are a law firm located in Calgary, Alberta, and we have been asked to investigate the assessment against the owners of timeshare properties at Sunchasers Vacation Villas at Fairmont. We are currently working with a firm in Victoria, BC to represent owners of these properties. We will be handling Alberta-based clients, while the Victoria firm will be handling BC-based clients.
We are seeking to file an Objection with the courts in relation to the upcoming May 31. 2013 Application by the timeshare operator. We are seeking owners/investors who wish to oppose the assessment. If you are interested in doing so, please contact our offices for further details.
Robert C. Forsyth
System Administrator
DOCKEN KLYM
403-269-3612
robert@docken.com
We are a law firm located in Calgary, Alberta, and we have been asked to investigate the assessment against the owners of timeshare properties at Sunchasers Vacation Villas at Fairmont. We are currently working with a firm in Victoria, BC to represent owners of these properties. We will be handling Alberta-based clients, while the Victoria firm will be handling BC-based clients.
We are seeking to file an Objection with the courts in relation to the upcoming May 31. 2013 Application by the timeshare operator. We are seeking owners/investors who wish to oppose the assessment. If you are interested in doing so, please contact our offices for further details.
Robert C. Forsyth
System Administrator
DOCKEN KLYM
403-269-3612
robert@docken.com