[ 2012 ] Fairmont / Sunchaser / Northwynd official thread with lawsuit info!

[Scammed!]

Very proud of all of you...lets keep the fight going TEAM!

 

[NotWhatIPaidFor]

Like has been said, we have 1300 people. Regardless of how you are going to handle this, let's finally take some action, we didn't get it from our lawyer and if nothing else we'll at least get the satisfaction of standing up for ourselves and doing SOMETHING.

Phones are going to be ringing off the hook. People will deal with us even if they don't care just to get us to shut up. Let's do this!!

 

[NotWhatIPaidFor]

CONTACTS FOR GETTING HELP - GETTING HEARD


Media Contacts


Government Contacts - Provincial Alberta
Alberta Consumer Protection Line: 1-877-427-4088 (toll-free)

Honourable Kathleen Ganley
Alberta Minister of Justice and Solicitor General
Members of Executive Council
Executive Branch
424 Legislature Building
10800 - 97 Avenue
Edmonton, AB
T5K 2B6
Phone: 780 427-2339
Fax: 780 422-6621
E-mail: ministryofjustice@gov.ab.ca

Alberta MLAs: Click Here for Alberta MLAs


Government Contacts - Provincial BC
BC Ministry of Attorney General
Honorable David Eby, Minister
JAG.minister@gov.bc.ca


Government Contacts - Federal
Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre: 1-888-495-8501 or through the Fraud Reporting System (FRS):

Here is a link to all the MP's in BC , phone numbers and email addresses
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members?currentOnly=true&province=BC

Legal Organization Contacts
British Columbia Law Society: professionalconduct@lsbc.org
Alberta Law Society (link to submit form): https://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/public/providing-information-concerning-a-lawyer/intake-specialist/


??? Other Categories ???

 

[NotWhatIPaidFor]

I should clarify, regardless of whether you accept the settlement or not join the campaign to get our story out there. It could end up with the right pressure in the right place, maybe even the law societies are embarrassed and step in, media, MPs/MLAs, etc.

 

[Scammed!]

Unfortunately, geldert has ensured we have functionally no time to react. Within weeks the settlement will be literally signed, sealed and delivered (except for those who either cannot or will not pay). As much as it sickens me, these are the facts.

I am hopeful some last minute intervention happens through mla's, rcmp, prime minister etc.

A lot of roads to go down with no time.

Gelderts option 1 and option 2 strike me as similar to options northmont gave us when this all started.

I will be contacting the media with our situation at the following email addresses :
1) gopublic@cbc.ca
2) marketplace@cbc.ca
3) fifthtips@cbc.ca

If global news and ctv news have similar news type investigators I will be contacting them as well.

I encourage you to do the same as it's easy for them to ignore 1 person.

This gross miscarriage of justice needs to be exposed.

I will also be contacting the Canadian Anti Fraud Center.

FOUND IT! THANKS EASY PREY

 

[NotWhatIPaidFor]

CONTACTS FOR GETTING HELP - GETTING HEARD


Media Contacts


Government Contacts - Provincial Alberta
Alberta Consumer Protection Line: 1-877-427-4088 (toll-free)

Honourable Kathleen Ganley
Alberta Minister of Justice and Solicitor General
Members of Executive Council
Executive Branch
424 Legislature Building
10800 - 97 Avenue
Edmonton, AB
T5K 2B6
Phone: 780 427-2339
Fax: 780 422-6621
E-mail: ministryofjustice@gov.ab.ca

Alberta MLAs: Click Here for Alberta MLAs


Government Contacts - Provincial BC
BC Ministry of Attorney General
Honorable David Eby, Minister
JAG.minister@gov.bc.ca


Government Contacts - Federal
Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre: 1-888-495-8501 or through the Fraud Reporting System (FRS):

Here is a link to all the MP's in BC , phone numbers and email addresses
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members?currentOnly=true&province=BC

Here is a link to all the MP's in AB, phone numbers and email addresses
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members?currentOnly=true&province=AB


Legal Organization Contacts
British Columbia Law Society: professionalconduct@lsbc.org
Alberta Law Society (link to submit form): https://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/public/providing-information-concerning-a-lawyer/intake-specialist/


??? Other Categories ???


Last Added: Alberta MPs and Alberta MLAs

 

[MarcieL]

I contacted my MP by snail mail in Ab. I also contacted B.C. law society by email. Heard back today could be 6 weeks until I get feedback! Time is of the essence

 

[NotWhatIPaidFor]

CONTACTS FOR GETTING HELP - GETTING HEARD


Media Contacts
gopublic@cbc.ca
marketplace@cbc.ca
fifthtips@cbc.ca


Government Contacts - Provincial Alberta
Alberta Consumer Protection Line: 1-877-427-4088 (toll-free)

Honourable Kathleen Ganley
Alberta Minister of Justice and Solicitor General
Members of Executive Council
Executive Branch
424 Legislature Building
10800 - 97 Avenue
Edmonton, AB
T5K 2B6
Phone: 780 427-2339
Fax: 780 422-6621
E-mail: ministryofjustice@gov.ab.ca

Alberta MLAs: Click Here for Alberta MLAs


Government Contacts - Provincial BC
BC Ministry of Attorney General
Honorable David Eby, Minister
JAG.minister@gov.bc.ca


Government Contacts - Federal
Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre: 1-888-495-8501 or through the Fraud Reporting System (FRS):

Here is a link to all the MP's in BC , phone numbers and email addresses
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members?currentOnly=true&province=BC

Here is a link to all the MP's in AB, phone numbers and email addresses
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members?currentOnly=true&province=AB


Legal Organization Contacts
British Columbia Law Society: professionalconduct@lsbc.org
Alberta Law Society (link to submit form): https://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/public/providing-information-concerning-a-lawyer/intake-specialist/


??? Other Categories ???


Last Added: Media Contacts for CBC

 

[Scammed!]

CBC News Investigates |Eric Rankin

• Email: investigate@cbc.ca

 

[Scammed!]

newsedmonton@cbc.ca

 

[NotWhatIPaidFor]

My thoughts on what you should communicate, there has been a good example posted, but I would emphasize that this has been a long process, but our lawyer did not follow the group's instructions and now we are being forced into a last minute agreement that we didn't agree to and have been given no time to react with new council or proper information....all at an outrageous number. In my opinion we want to follow Judge Young's guidance.

All the other details of the travesty that this is are important but please emphasize that we need a stay of execution and wish to follow the judge's guidance.

Other important items are having Capital Costs defined as "Operating Expenses" in defiance of GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) and in defiance of the definitions set up by the Provincial Governments and Federal Government with regards to personal and business taxes. I don't care how bad our representation was, no judge should ever make this judgement.

Also, the changing of our contracts.

For AB and Federal contacts the fact that Judge Young said we'd likely win but she doesn't want to bother the courts....for us even though we pay for the courts. Where does Wankel live? Where do his lawyer's live? Why can't AB courts work for us!!!???

The heinous fact that Northwynd owns over 50% of the units and will not pay a dime because they are waiting for us to all pay and then they admitted in court they will downsize the property and they will ignore their obligation to pay. How they were allowed in front of judges to weazel this is an embarrassment to Alberta, BC and Canadian law and government. They should be ashamed that something like this could be orchestrated and that they are not taking action. They media needs to know, there needs to be pressure, those offshore accounts need to be seized, their assets need to be seized, they need to be brought to account.

 

[NotWhatIPaidFor]

Do up one letter, email it to everyone on this list. Let's get those RCMP contacts in the list as well. Use your letter to help you in phone conversations when you call these people. Don't just settle for email, email is great, it's fast and it's effective but let's get on the phone. It's much, much harder for someone to dismiss you when you are on the phone with them.

 

[dalindy]

Are you all taking settlement offer? I would like to talk to u. We said no to settlement but are unsure what to do.we don't want to get in another lawsuit too.

We are in Eastern Wa too, south of Spokane. We would love to get a WA group together and see if maybe a lawyer would be willing to talk to us about our options.

 

[Spark1]

Spark1 - While I do have legal training, I am not a lawyer, and certainly am not a judge. And I certainly do not want to be a drag on the momentum of this group. But since you have asked my opinion (which you will probably soon regret ), I will offer the following:

First off, my personal opinion is certainly that the group has legitimate grievances and I empathize with the situation you find yourself in. But I also cannot help to wonder if emotion is not overcoming logic in this situation. I understand the emotion this topic can foster, especially when for 3-4 years you have one picture painted for you and at trial the court views the legal issues presented completely differently.

With that as context, here is what I found regarding the Janet Lydiatt v Banff Rocky Resort case on the issues at trial (emphasis added).

The repairs undertaken pursuant to the "special assessment fee" appeared to be properly characterized in the Agreement as part of the "Annual Use Fee" as replacement reserves - The defendant underestimated the required increase in the "Annual Use Fee" over a number of years, resulting in an insufficient replacement reserve - This did not authorize them to impose an "Annual Use Fee" that did not otherwise comply with the terms of the Agreement - The "special assessment fee" exceeded the allowable increase in "Annual Use Fee" and there was no authority within the terms of the Agreement for imposing a retroactive "Annual Use Fee".

This summary is consistent with the reasoning the trial judge used in explaining why he rejected the precedent from the Lydiatt case. And when I review the VIA, I find no mention of a cap on increases in annual use fee. Absent that key clause, the court finds it reasonable that the owners should pay for the refurbishment. You might argue that unjustly enriches Northwynd as they will receive a resort in better condition they would have originally. And while that is true, that is the nature of the contract you entered into (that the property would revert to the developer).

And while I appreciate your position that this is a timeshare and not a condo, I find that is exactly the position the court took and is frequently cited as the reasoning behind their decisions. That because this is a timeshare, you have obligations to your fellow owners, and the trustee has a duty to protect the interests of your fellow owners. The court discusses this issue at length starting with para 26 - THE NATURE OF JEKE’S INTEREST.

So while I understand that some are seeking an outcome that allows them to walk away, the court is accurately pointing out that allowing such an outcome increases the burden on your fellow owners. And placed in the position of having to balance the rights of all the timeshare owners, they find the reorganization plan originally proposed in 2013 is the best outcome in that regard. That exit options offered at that time properly balance your obligations against the rights of remaining owners. IMHO - in a more perfect world - that would have been the legal strategy your counsel would have quickly negotiated. Instead they chose the path of attempting to invalidate the contracts, and that strategy failed.

On your other two points I fail to see merit in the argument. Courts naturally have responsibility to ensure efficient use of limited judicial resources. Nothing untoward there.

Likewise on the upfront money issue, it is not talked about because Fairfield's bankruptcy extinguished any claim on that point. As with almost any claim regarding Fairfield.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for asking.

I could care less about fairfield's bankruptcy. This is our money not his and if I [bleep] want to send North mont a bill I damwell will,that is my business and I do not have to have your permission

[mod: edited to remove profanity]

 

[Spark1]

With option 1, you are paying both to stay and to go.

They are charging the RPF and an exit fee of 20% despite what KW states below.

The following is from the BC Trial, statements from Kirk Wankel under oath:

Q Do you admit that the manager is treating Northmont differently by not requiring that part of the section 9 payment called the RPF to be paid?
KW. It is treating Northmont the same as anyone who wants to terminate their lease and participate in the resort
realignment plan to exit. Any owner who chooses to cancel does not have to pay the RPF.
Q Do you admit they have not been paid?
KW. Yes.
Q Are you prepared to admit that if Northmont is responsible to pay to the resort account the RPF, that Northmont is in default to the extent of approximately a $20 million payment?
KW. No.
Q Why not?
KW. Because you can't be in default until you have been invoiced and the bill is overdue.
Q And who decided whether or not to invoice Northmont?
KW The manager.
Q Who is the manager?
KW. Northmont.
Q So the only reason Northmont doesn't have a bill is that it has decided not to bill itself?
KW. The manager has not billed Northmont.
Q Do you admit the reason that Northmont has not billed Northmont is that Northmont expects to get some kind of approval for some kind of resort realignment in the future?
KW. Yes.

Hello this is spark1 are we still going to meet up in Edmonton?

 

[Spark1]

There are many of us who are being invoiced for much more than 24000.00 our total is close to 40,000.00 by M.G.'s latest "approximation" of 26.8% of the Nov. /16 invoice plus another 20%. Like most we are seniors in our 70's and on a fixed income, so this means a bank loan! I am incensed that we engaged a lawyer for 4 years and this is the result. We could've arrived at this conclusion on our own. M.G. and his cohorts argued convincingly only one point, at the original B.C. trial for a test case, thus all our contracts mirror Jeke! Our counsel gave up our rights to our individual contracts in order to have the court recognize their arguments. M.G. had promised us a test case was the way to proceed, he then failed to prove mismanagement, giving NM justification in charging us whatever they chose. Barry King tried to submit the contract issue, at the Edmonton court hearing, but Judge Young ruled it was re-litigation of matters already covered at the Jeke trial.

They can not mirror our contracts to JEK's North mont Trustee or Northmont will be sued if they tried to do that with our Contract. We never gave MG that right to do this. Contracts are a serious item and this will be talked over when I meet our MLA on Jan08. I feel the has been a lot of mistakes made with with lawyers Judges and Northmont and I will send Northmont a bill when I find out how much money they are trying to steal from me.

 

[Spark1]

If NM increases one cost (exit fee) to offset a reduced interest (actually a contractual obligation) in order to get more money, it is a perfect example of greed and arbitrarily inflated costs on NM's behalf. I'm sure Judge Young would frown upon that as they were the two items that she had concerns with in her decision.

I also challenge paying the RPF in option 1. NM is charging to stay and charging to go.

Under sworn oath KW said " any owner who chooses to cancel does not have to pay the RPF"

This further exemplifies their greed and true intention.

Punter did you move your documents to the anti-fraud centre RCMP? And is this meeting with you not goihg to happen let me know spark1

 

[Bohutch]

We are in Eastern Wa too, south of Spokane. We are in the Settlement group but don't want to pay. We would love to get a WA group together and see if maybe a lawyer would be willing to talk to us about our options, what happens if we don't pay, what to expect if Northmont tries to collect here, etc. All the questions we wanted Geldert to answer and never were able to get answers for.

Hi,
We are on Pullman, please let us know what you have in mind. We have all the same questions.
Thanks. Bohutch.

 

[melamike]

Here is the list for all the MLA’S in BC. Let’s not limit the contact to your own representative. People are being hurt all over the province and you never know which MLA will step up to take action
https://www.leg.bc.ca/content-committees/Pages/MLA-Contact-Information.aspx

 

[Ultimate_Betrayal]

CONTACTS FOR GETTING HELP - GETTING HEARD


Media Contacts
gopublic@cbc.ca
marketplace@cbc.ca
fifthtips@cbc.ca

Government Contacts - Provincial Alberta
Alberta Consumer Protection Line: 1-877-427-4088 (toll-free)

Honourable Kathleen Ganley
Alberta Minister of Justice and Solicitor General
Members of Executive Council
Executive Branch
424 Legislature Building
10800 - 97 Avenue
Edmonton, AB
T5K 2B6
Phone: 780 427-2339
Fax: 780 422-6621
E-mail: ministryofjustice@gov.ab.ca

Alberta MLAs: Click Here for Alberta MLAs


Government Contacts - Provincial BC
BC Ministry of Attorney General
Honorable David Eby, Minister
JAG.minister@gov.bc.ca


Government Contacts - Federal
Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre: 1-888-495-8501 or through the Fraud Reporting System (FRS):

Here is a link to all the MP's in BC , phone numbers and email addresses
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members?currentOnly=true&province=BC

Here is a link to all the MP's in AB, phone numbers and email addresses
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members?currentOnly=true&province=AB


Legal Organization Contacts
British Columbia Law Society: professionalconduct@lsbc.org
Alberta Law Society (link to submit form): https://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/public/providing-information-concerning-a-lawyer/intake-specialist/


??? Other Categories ???


Last Added: Media Contacts for CBC

What about a Resource Category.

I think by people helping themselves to understand what these organizations are and the process of what we are trying to do may help more people feel comfortable adding their voice.

Unfortunately this was not my idea, one of the people I have been conversing with received a call back from his MP yesterday after reading his simple and direct email there was a “Urgent” need for help and shared it with me.

After the conversation the MP emailed back the below list of resources to assist us.

The point is:

• We identified a problem
• Took action
• We are starting to be heard
• Keep pushing

Consumer protection contacts:
http://www.consumerhandbook.ca/en/topics/financial/contracts#related

National Fraud Centre:
http://www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca/index-eng.htm

BC Bar Association referral service:
https://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/working-with-lawyers/finding-a-lawyer/

Helpful site with some similar links as well as information:
https://wiki.clicklaw.bc.ca/index.php?title=Where_to_Get_Help_for_Consumer_Law_Essentials

 

[Scammed!]

What about a Resource Category.

I think by people helping themselves to understand what these organizations are and the process of what we are trying to do may help more people feel comfortable adding their voice.

Unfortunately this was not my idea, one of the people I have been conversing with received a call back from his MP yesterday after reading his simple and direct email there was a “Urgent” need for help and shared it with me.

After the conversation the MP emailed back the below list of resources to assist us.

The point is:

• We identified a problem
• Took action
• We are starting to be heard
• Keep pushing

Consumer protection contacts:
http://www.consumerhandbook.ca/en/topics/financial/contracts#related

National Fraud Centre:
http://www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca/index-eng.htm

BC Bar Association referral service:
https://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/working-with-lawyers/finding-a-lawyer/

Helpful site with some similar links as well as information:
https://wiki.clicklaw.bc.ca/index.php?title=Where_to_Get_Help_for_Consumer_Law_Essentials

I told you we would be heard and that's our first step....far from done. If any calls come from the media do we have anyone willing to take that on? Emails have been sent to them we need to be prepared. DON'T STOP! DON'T STOP! DON'T STOP!

 

[CleoB]

Here is another example of an awesome one-off letter for your elected officials. Again I am not part of the large facebook group but please someone spread the word on that forum to get going on some political/media pressure, without it all these facebook postings of facts/non-facts mean nothing.

Dear MLA/MP


I am a local constituent in ???? and writing you today to make you aware of a white collar crime being perpetrated against thousands of Canadian citizens and yet the court system appears to have their hands tied to prevent a corporation from extorting tens of millions of dollars.


I will attach the Alberta Court papers that were filed in October 2017 and will give a brief point summary of the facts to the best of my knowledge.


Fairmont Vacation Villas in Fairmont, BC. operated a business of selling timeshare weeks. Due to poor management over the years they began to fail and applied for creditor protection in 2009.


In 2012 Northmont bought the resort in a bankruptcy acquisition and quickly further mismanaged the resort from a 5 star rating to a state of deterioration. They made plans to sell off assets, close buildings, stopped sending the required financial statements, etc. It became very obvious that they purchased this resort knowing full well that they were planning to levy massive fees on the Owners which they did and quickly launched civil suits against thousands of people.


In an attempt to find a resolution to this Geldert Law of Vancouver BC was hired to represent many BC and AB owners in the hopes of finding a resolution.


There were concerns that even if you paid the fees there was no guarantee that they wouldn't levy more fees or that they were planning to re-align the resort and close down many of the buildings. Many people wanted to simply get released from their timeshare and were willing to pay a fee to be legally freed from the resort.


Through these years, the owners were not permitted to use their owned weeks at the resort but Northmont was free to rent out owners week all while charging them a 27% compounded interest rate on the fees they levied. This has been happening since 2013, so the interest amounts are astounding.


However, the units that Northmont themselves own, (weeks owners paid large sums of money back to Northmont to be released from or unsold units), they are not paying any of these said fees. My understanding is they own around 40% of the units and are not paying the same fees they are suing other owners for.


When this case appeared in Alberta courts, the judge strongly suggested that a Northmont negotiate a fair settlement instead of having thousands of individual court cases coming forward. Judge Young was also very concerned about the interest and other costs and asked that this be worked out. If a reasonable agreement could not be reached then it would need to play out in the courts.


Fast forward to today:


All along the various law offices working with and on behalf of Geldert Group have been giving assurance that we should be able to get a decent settlement. In March we were offered an exit for approximately $13,800 but Geldert felt we would do better so most people continued on.


December 14, 2017 the "fair settlement" that Northmont bullied and threatened to all the owners was we are forced to pay all charges with the 27% compounded interest but then add to that total another random 20% to be released and return our asset back to them, for a total settlement of 120% of last compounded statement. The price basically doubled since March.


If any owner does not pay in full by February 15, 2018 they will increase the 20% to 42% so the settlement is now minimally 162% of last compounded statement and they will refuse to release you or come up with any price they deem to release you.


So basically 2000+ Albertans alone are being held hostage by Northmont who is demanding a random payment for an owner having a single week of approximately $24,000. (Some folks own multiple weeks). That is 48 Million dollars. The price of that ransom will be increased to an unknown sum if you cannot or do not make payment.


They have also assured people that if you do not pay, not only will the ransom fee increase to whatever they determine but they will start legal proceedings via liens on our property, seizing assets etc.


Northmont has a history of doing this type of scenario, buying failing resorts at a bargain price, force owners to pay huge sums of money for renovations or pay huge sums of money to be released all while Northmont increases the value and retains their asset. It is a legal scam that steals money from the owners who have no protection.


Owners are left holding the bag. They bought their timeshare for tens of thousands of dollars on average, are unable to use it and now must pay tens of thousands again to simply give it back. How can this happen?


This does not seem like a scenario that one would see in Canada unfolding and nobody seems to be taking notice at all.


I am reaching out to you today in a last ditch effort to help.


Sincerely,

The word owner should read "leasee" as we are not owners.

 

[CleoB]

Grea

I want to thank Bewildered for this letter. At this moment I would like to inform you all that 87 MLA's (not one missed) have received this letter in Alberta in last three hours. We will be heard! I received an email from two urging me to inform my MLA .... so I had to revise it a little to say this letter is to inform all MLA'S of Alberta what is happening to Canadians. Why did I do this? Because there are elderly people who I saw in court and it was heart breaking. Some may be sick, don't know how to use a computer, or have zero support. I don't know who they are or where they live but I covered every inch of Alberta. I will no longer be silenced. I have always stuck up for the under dog.....apparently that would be me right now. I can tell you that I have sent just over 100 emails so far. My work isn't finished until this is over!

Great letter but if others are going to use it perhaps you may want to include some of these other points.

The tactics used to claim the ridiculous fees tNorthmount demands are Unfair Practices. As a result of successfully hiding the fact that the RPF, and forcing payment for services never provided - MFees on weeks we can’t use, and unilateral changes to our Contracts are serious violations of Consumer law granting abused Contract owners immediate cancellation of their contracts for free. They have successfully labeled us ( in the eyes of the Court) as the “delinquents” implying their efforts to “ save” the resort are honourable and supported by all the “other” good standing TS owners. They don’t reveal that they have illegally demanded this money from us and are now charging usually interest on money they have extorted from innocent, but poorly represented formerly payment punctual VIA participants. NM owns at least half of the units and aren’t paying that share, but they are using their “majority” ownership to label us the bad guys- delinquents delaying the renovation of the “well managed” beautiful resort. Somehow the corruption lurking beneath the falsely painted honourable exterior must be exposed. MLA’s , MPs, Media, need to know that NWynd and NM and KW have used illegal methods to gain our Court awarded money.

 

[CleoB]

Can legacy people lean the property?

That's a question for a lawyer but maybe the moderator might have some thoughts.

 

[ecwinch]

That's a question for a lawyer but maybe the moderator might have some thoughts.

Thanks... but having stuck my opinion in where it obviously is not wanted, I’ll pass. And just for clarity, that was my personal opinion and has nothing to do with my moderator role.