[ 2012 ] Adult children who won't grow up.

[Passepartout]

I had no intention of singling out any individual, or making anyone feel that there is automatically criminal activity involved. There is a huge spectrum of human behavior. Some of it is more acceptable than other. Whether it's 'so and so' won't grow up, or 'so and so' hangs out with the wrong crowd or can't keep a job.

I have two nieces who have each had 2 kids by different men, can't/won't hold jobs and somehow feel there is entitlement to life's better things astounds me. I know their parents weren't raised to think that way.

We all follow different paths down life's road. Some are more direct and some wander. I can only hope that all eventually come to peace and satisfaction.

Jim

 

[ampaholic]

... and somehow feel there is entitlement to life's better things astounds me.

I have also met astounding leeches

I would wish the OP would come back and clarify the situation.

Are there drugs / alcohol involved?

Is there an enabler boyfriend (ie dirtbag) involved?

 

[geekette]

I agree, Jim, in the extreme cases.

But I think there is also a lot of simple immaturity, irresponsibility around. I am floored by the number of grandparents raising their grandkids when it isn't a situation of drug abuse nor physical/mental illness. In which case, being forced to deal with their decisions, situations, consequences is indeed that first step.

 

[Paumavista]

At the risk of changing the direction and raising the temperature of this thread, our jails are full of people bearing the consequences of making poor decisions. Drug and alcohol use and mental illness by parents have placed their kids in the guardianship of grandparents- or worse, foster families. Jim

Hey, wait a minute...we resemble that "foster family" comment Our kids (most of the 30 or so; so far) are doing pretty darn good. And we provide a loving, nurturing, stable family experience - the first many have had. DH & I have both retired early so we are "there for them" and we love it – along with our grandchildren & our own youngest who are still in Middle School.

And all of them seem to pretty quickly develop our passion for timeshare vacations and cruises :whoopie:

 

[geekette]

...somehow feel there is entitlement to life's better things ...

oh boy, that's a huge one right there. "I am the most special person there ever was..." and "the world owes me a living".

yikes.

 

[Passepartout]

Paumavista

There is a world of difference between foster parents who feel a 'calling' to improve the lot of those they have the opportunity to help, and those who feel it is an obligation.

I can see that you are the former. Bless you.

Jim

 

[BevL]

When it's your grandchildren . . .

In the interests of disclosure, we've had our share of difficulties with our two children, that's for sure. Our son became a father a few months before his 19th birthday. At one point, issues between our grandson's mother and himself led to Children and Family Services involvement.

I can tell you that when we got a call from a social worker asking that if it was found necessary to remove the child, would we be willing to take him, there was no thought of, "This is my son's problem, let him deal with it." We were not willing to stand by and allow our grandbaby to be placed in a situation that might have serious consequences to him. He was completely the innocent victim - and he's our grandson.

I'm not saying that the OP was in that situation, it's not really clear. But I can't imagine a grandparent opting to teach their child a lesson over ensuring the safety and wellbeing of their grandchild.

For the record, our grandbaby was not removed. Our grandson's mother just got married last month to a wonderful man who treats our grandson like his own child. She is happy and we are happy for her. Our son is in a stable relationship and is planning to marry his partner once he finishes his fourth year of university, a year from now. He is an active and involved father - basically shared custody between the two parents.

There just isn't one right answer.

 

[pjrose]

Let's get practical

Awhile ago (a few years?) on TUG there was a discussion of something along these lines, family members who seemed to be taking advantage of others..... If I recall correctly, there were some practical suggestions there of how to deal with it.

I believe those suggestions involved sitting down and mapping out expectations as well as ways to deal with them and a timetable for dealing with them. This set a plan for a transition toward responsibility.

The agreed on expectations need to be written down with everyone's signature or initials indicating acceptance (if not agreement). There also should be some leeway recognizing that the items are subject to change with everyone's agreement.

For example,

You are legally an adult, and have created a child who is your responsibility.

You will need to have a job for at least xx hours a week. While you are working, I will care for the child. Otherwise, the child is your responsibility. If you are planning to go out in the evening you may pay a babysitter; I might (or might not) be that babysitter.

Day care costs about $xxx per week. You will need to contribute $yy toward the cost of day care in my house.

I will provide a home for you and the child, however as you are 1/3 (or whatever) of this family, I expect you to contribute toward 1/3 of the cost of running the household. (or 1/3 of your pay etc.) This will help cover costs of utilities, food, rent/mortgage, etc.

I expect you to pay the costs of your and your child's medical expenses, clothes, and personal items. If there is no father or child support in the picture, I will help you find the appropriate agency(ies) to get child support. That child support is for the child's support, and will go to the costs of food, clothing, etc for the child.

I will baby sit for xx hours a week if you are in school or working. The rest of the time you are responsible for your child or you may pay for a babysitter or day care center.

etc etc....gas, car, phone, internet, cable.....

You will need to figure out a budget. I will help you with this; there are online sites we can use.

You will need to start looking for an apartment. I will help.....​

Let's work toward this as an approximate timetable:

You should be able to be on your own by (3 months? 6 months?)

You should apply for xxx jobs per day, with the goal of having a job by yyy

Once you have a job, you will need to look for zzz apartments per day, with the goal of.....
​

etc.

PJ

 

[Liz Wolf-Spada]

My son, who is almost 30 with a master's in journalism is working about 10 hours a week at Banana Republic trying to find a job in journalism. I do end up helping him a lot and still pay his car insurance and health insurance and renter's insurance. One of the jobs he really wanted, but didn't get, paid the huge sum of $24,000 a year. The job market is really tough out there, but he's really trying. I really feel for grandparents raising grandkids. I don't think I could do it. Regarding the two kids in college, one so very independent and one not, kids are different and you said he had anxiety issues. Read the book, Highly Sensitive People, for some interesting takes on people who are very reactive to stress.
Liz

 

[jlr10]

Until a person is forced to bear the consequences of a poor decision, he/she will continue to make poor decisions.

I fully agree with this. DH & I have a large family tree of people who want us to take care of them so they can sit around all day watching TV, while we go to work every day.

If there are mental or health issues involved, or because their is an unexpected situation that come up, I am all for helping people. But not when they only need help because they refuse to do anything to look after their own needs and feel that their needs should be met by everyone else,and they should be bailed out time and time again.

I am a big believer of teaching a person to fish rather than give them a fish. If they don't want to do that then they will have to go hungry around me.

 

[easyrider]

Why are kids less responsible today ? Most of you tuggers already know.

1. When I was growing up I had a regular jobs that included working with tools and equipment and I had to show up on time and work. Some times working for 12 hours a day. For this I was paid minimum wage and overtime.

Now a child can not work in many occupations and is limited to 4 hours per day until 17. Until 18 this person can not be included in many jobs requiring the use of tools or equipment.

2. Growing up I did not have a Playstation or 300 chanels. We spent time outdoors riding bike, motorcycles, fishing, hunting, throwing frisbee and all kinds of activities.

Today a kid has so many distractions. Computer , cell phones, dvd games and tv take up alot of their time. How can anyone compete with technology, especially a teacher.

3. When I grew up there was only one winner or one winning team, one first place trophy and it was an accomplishment to have earned it.

Now all the kids are winners. Why even keep score !!

So these kids that never had a job will apply and tell of their vast experience at age 20. They usually have very limited job skills but feel they should be paid journeyman wages.

So it is really everybody's fault that most young adults needs extra time to gain a work ethic. As a parent there is a need to make that child work at something and feel accomplishment for a task well done.

The old trick of doing a bad job so the kid won't be asked to do it again can be crushed with perseverance of the parent. My kids played that game until they realized it was far easier on them to just do a good job off the get go.

 

[pianodinosaur]

Anyone have an adult child that doesn't seem to get the idea of responsibility in the real world? In other words, ___won't grow up. We have been helping to raise our 2 year old grandson since he was 7 days old. And that is just part of this "she doesn't get it!" situation.

I understand your problem all too well. I have a sister in her 50s who is married and had 5 children of her own. My father has been supporting my sister, her husband, the five grandchildren and now a great grandchild for the past 25 years. She uses the grandchildren as weapon to extort money from my father. My father does not understand why my other sisters and I don't want to have anything to do with her or her progeny.

I suggest you nip this in the bud right now.

 

[pjrose]

I understand your problem all too well. I have a sister in her 50s who is married and had 5 children of her own. My father has been supporting my sister, her husband, the five grandchildren and now a great grandchild for the past 25 years. She uses the grandchildren as weapon to extort money from my father. My father does not understand why my other sisters and I don't want to have anything to do with her or her progeny.

I suggest you nip this in the bud right now.

Wow. I am speechless.

 

[Htoo0]

As a kid when I wanted to stay up past my bedtime I was told, "OK but you'll be tired in the morning and that will just be too bad". When I turned 16 and was given a car (not even close to new however), I pretty much never got home before 4 AM. Still got up and went to school though. I refused to play sports because I didn't like the rules, didn't have a job until my senior year and took a year off just hanging around before moving on to college after HS graduation. Still, although I ran with some questionable people, I didn't get into drugs or alcohol, got a job, got married and worked at improving myself beyond the life I lived. A number of brothers and sisters have striven to do the same. But one still lives with our mom and has raised two kids. One of those is doing quite well while the other is going nowhere and probably will remain there. Why do some turn out so much differently than others even when raised substantially under the same conditions? Someday maybe they'll be able to run a test for some gene or chemical or something but until then I think we just need to examine all the options at our disposal, try to figure out which works best for the situation and do what we can. I don't envy those with problem family. I just wonder who is going to decide when it's time to stick me some place when the time comes.

 

[Phydeaux]

IMHO, not enough information offered here to render an opinion or advice. There are always three sides to every story.




All I can offer is this: our children enter this world conceived and born from us. We raise them. They have no *zero* preconceived notions, prejudices, etc. etc. We do our best in raising them the best we know how, in their formative years, then turn them over to themselves.

I've read every reply. Can't help but come right back to my first post.....Not enough information.. Many people commenting on something that they have only been provided with !a miniscule sliver of information. Hope you folks don't serve on a jury!

Op, comment? More background? Drive by post?

 

[ausman]

Phydeaux,

Don't think you are right on this.

The OP may read the replies and never come back, but take the replies to heart.

People have responded on the information available, what was said and unsaid.

Lots of experience here on TUG with life's issues outside of Time-shares.

 

[Icc5]

Agree with this and more

Why are kids less responsible today ? Most of you tuggers already know.

1. When I was growing up I had a regular jobs that included working with tools and equipment and I had to show up on time and work. Some times working for 12 hours a day. For this I was paid minimum wage and overtime.

Now a child can not work in many occupations and is limited to 4 hours per day until 17. Until 18 this person can not be included in many jobs requiring the use of tools or equipment.

2. Growing up I did not have a Playstation or 300 chanels. We spent time outdoors riding bike, motorcycles, fishing, hunting, throwing frisbee and all kinds of activities.

Today a kid has so many distractions. Computer , cell phones, dvd games and tv take up alot of their time. How can anyone compete with technology, especially a teacher.

3. When I grew up there was only one winner or one winning team, one first place trophy and it was an accomplishment to have earned it.

Now all the kids are winners. Why even keep score !!

So these kids that never had a job will apply and tell of their vast experience at age 20. They usually have very limited job skills but feel they should be paid journeyman wages.

So it is really everybody's fault that most young adults needs extra time to gain a work ethic. As a parent there is a need to make that child work at something and feel accomplishment for a task well done.

The old trick of doing a bad job so the kid won't be asked to do it again can be crushed with perseverance of the parent. My kids played that game until they realized it was far easier on them to just do a good job off the get go.

Every situation is different. In our case we have two adult children that took two different directions. One moved out at an early age and struggles in life but she knew it was her choice. We talk, we listen, and so far she makes it but has a hard time.
The younger one lives at home (he is 21) which is fine for now. He works a job and has also started his own business. We are here for support and direction when asked (to a point). He will do fine in the future.
Two kids, two directions and thankfully neither one has ever been in trouble or really troubled. I like to believe it is the standards we set and the support we've given without overstepping being good parents.
Bart

 

[AwayWeGo]

What's The Matter With Kids Today ?

Click here for a musical version of this vexing question.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[sfwilshire]

Anyone have an adult child that doesn't seem to get the idea of responsibility in the real world?

Does anyone have an adult child who HAS?

Sheila

 

[teepeeca]

Does anyone have an adult child who HAS?

Sheila

Pam and I have TWO WONDERFUL (adult) children !!! Both went to "university"---daughter graduated in biochemistry, and is now a nephrologist (kidney doctor) and our son graduated in chemistry, has now had three "mini" careers---chemical; intel; and now police officer (his real "love").

Our son wanted to "be on his own" after college, and get an apartment "closer" to his chemical job---10 miles closer from his/our home. Rent, at that time, was a bit over $800 per month, plus all utlities, etc. I "convinced him" to live at home (for the first year, at least), and save the apartment rent in an account, so he could buy a home --- would have $$$ for a down payment for it.

He DID listen to "mom and me"--- did what we suggested--- and has owned a home "of much more value" than what we own for over 15 years.

Maybe our children had a more mature upbringing, since I was "in the military", and expected "things" from them, BUT, everything worked out "fine" --- everybody is happy.

Tony

 

[SOS8260456]

Not to make light of a very serious subject, especially when I can relate in some ways right now, but....

for some strange reason my children always feel like they are entitled to a yearly vacation and NEVER in a hotel room. For some strange reason, they now always expect their own bedrooms, jacuzzi tubs, balconies, full refrig for lots of snacks, flat screen tv's, heated swimming pools, game rooms, etc. A hotel room or even a 1 bedroom is considered slumming. I can't figure it out.

Anyway, this thread has been interesting reading. My 2 older children are 11 months apart and now 18 and 17 and they are so different. The 18 year old is currently throwing the "I'm 18 and can do what I want" attitude constantly. She will graduate HS in June. She does work and it seems like she cares about stuff with everyone else. But to us, it's just "I don't care" and "I can do what I want" and just constant overall disrespect. We are at our wit's end. I made the comment that if she feels that way she can move out, but deep down scared stiff that she will and then get hurt somehow.

 

[MommaBear]

Does anyone have an adult child who HAS?

Sheila

I have three children who are responsible adults with jobs and come to their father and me for advice, support and short term loans. (And for fun- we still have a great time together.)

Daughter #1 was into sex, drugs and rock and roll as a teenager, lived on the streets her last semester high school (long story, punchline is, "It's tough, love") got a degree in english and now at 32 is finishing up her nursing degree, getting married and is still a character. Loved her throughout, didn't put up with her illegal/counter culture BS. Daughter #2 has taken longer to grow up but was much less rebellious and less dramatic. She also has a college degree and a job (with benefits!) and still taps us for loans to meet her budget shortfalls. She really does not understand that shoes are NOT an emergency. In return, she dog sits when we are gone on vacation and makes us gourmet meals for our freezer. She is having trouble figuring out why at 29 she doesn't have the life her father and I enjoy. She doesn't understand that we didn't have it at 29 either! Our son, the youngest, makes more than DH and me combined, took all 6 (including his wife who came back after leaving him for a year.) of us to London for Christmas. (DD #1 paid for some of the lodging.) His struggle has been to understand why people are the way they are and has taken longest to figure out that his father and I are intelligent rational human beings.

Because we do not have grandchildren, we have been able to do the tough love thing when it was needed. DH and I have often discussed how our decisions would have been different at different points if we had had grandchildren, because our focus would have been on making sure they were safe and secure, rather than having their parents/our children learn their life lessons. The decisions are never easy, you make them based on the best information you have and eveyone has a different comfort level and a different understanding of what is best for them, their children and their family.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Won't Grow Up.

Click here for another musical take on the subject.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[SOS8260456]

Alan,
Love your musical takes!

Lisa

 

[Tia]

...The 18 year old is currently throwing the "I'm 18 and can do what I want" attitude constantly. ....

Some of that is no doubt the growing away from parents that they need to do to be independent.