[2011] How do you choose the right college?

[Zac495]

I can't believe I spent today looking at colleges with my son. He's going into 11th so it's a little early -but it felt right. We saw Pitt and Carnegie Mellon today.

Are the private colleges (like Carnegie) really going to give a kid a HUGE boost over a very good college like Pitt?

What is most important? How did those of you who have been through this choose? What did you take into consideration (besides the obvious answer of money).

thanks all!

 

[DeniseM]

Ellen - I think their major is a big consideration. For example, my cousin's daughter got accepted to Yale - so she went to Yale. Her dad is a cop and her mom has an in-home child care - not wealthy people - and they will be paying for it forever. Ready for the kicker? She got a teaching credential and is teaching kindergarten. I'm sure it was great for her to be accepted to a prestigious college - but you sure don't need to go to Yale to teach kindergarten.

Both of my kids were bright, but immature, and were underachievers in high school, so we told them that we would pay for them to attend our local Jr. college and if/when they graduated from JC, they could pick a 4 year college to attend. My daughter graduated and then decided to go to our local state college, and got a teaching credential. My son (who has autism) is in his 6th year of Jr. College - but that's OK - he only needs 2 more classes to graduate.

There are so many things to consider and maturity is a big one. Do you think your son will be ready to go away to college in a year? Are you aware of the high failure rate for freshmen away from home for the first time?

 

[loafingcactus]

You can find some research that level of prestige affects lower income background students more than higher income background students; it provides the social education and networking that lower income youth didn't get from their family connections.

Something I know now that I didn't know when I was 17 is that it is impossible to know if you are having good or bad fortune until everything is done. So picking is largely luck rather than the things you think you are picking. If its a truly awful match, the youth can always move.

I went to a small liberal arts college and to a huge university. They both provided different things, and the most valuable things to me weren't institutional but were specific people... fortune, not picking, there.

 

[learnalot]

I can't believe I spent today looking at colleges with my son. He's going into 11th so it's a little early -but it felt right. We saw Pitt and Carnegie Mellon today.

Are the private colleges (like Carnegie) really going to give a kid a HUGE boost over a very good college like Pitt?

What is most important? How did those of you who have been through this choose? What did you take into consideration (besides the obvious answer of money).

thanks all!

Hi Ellen,

It can depend on what he plans to study. Certain schools are known for certain programs. I think if he is looking at a sort of general/liberal arts type program, the difference between two schools won't matter as much as it might if he has a particular focus or passion.

If I had a student that wanted to pursue music as their primary focus, I wouldn't steer them towards anywhere with a marginal program even if the school itself were top tier. (There are better places to study music than Harvard, for instance).

 

[Sea Six]

My experience during the recruitment process was that it is better to do well with extra-curricular activities at a lesser school than to do poorly at a great school and not have activities. Key being, grades are not all that matters. Pick a school you can not only do well in class, but contribute to the school with activities.

 

[ampaholic]

Pitt is a good school as is CM - I think the intended major is the trump card.

If your child wants to go into medicine or medical research I would consider The University of Pennsylvania as it is very highly rated in that area.

University of Pennsylvania also has a highly rated Law school.

Of course if money is no object and he has the grades - Harvard.

I went to a state school because I didn't have the bux for Stanford or the brains for Cal Tech - it worked out OK for me.

 

[Ridewithme38]

When i was graduating high school i was told: "If you not going Ivy League, it doesn't really matter where you go"

 

[Sea Six]

When i was graduating high school i was told: "If you not going Ivy League, it doesn't really matter where you go"

TRUTH! It doesn't matter where you go - it matters how you do and how you end up.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The summer before 11th grade is the EXPLORE college campuses window. Not early at all.

My 18 yo nephew was admitted to the Scholars Program at the U of Maryland at College Park - he and his mom just attended the 2 day summer orientation (past Thurs & Fri) - separate lectures for son on both days; mom went only on Thurs. The kids even had a sleep over in their un-cool dorm rooms (no a/c at 103F). He was not admitted to the MORE prestigious Presidential Program, but his PIA friend who I could not stand, was. Nephew's program included the separate dorm and a 2 year on campus housing promise. Presidential Program attendees get 4 year dorm promise in the twin dorm next to my nephew's dorm.

Nephew looked at CM and Pitt, too. And U of P. Was admitted to Lehigh, Va Tech, and U of Maryland. He graduated HS with 45 college credits due to his AP classes & test scores. Oh, did I mention his 800 SAT in Math and his AP Level 2 Math 780?

Meanwhile, that PIA friend of his graduated #1 in the class(540+ kids), never got a grade lower than an A, took all the AP classes (more than nephew), and tested better on the SATs. He did NOT get into CM, U of P, Columbia (his must go to school), and a few others. Need I say, U of MD was NOT his 1st thru 4th choice. My sister liked PIA boy, the HS school like PIA => I detested the kid when I met him 18 months ago.

Getting into college is NOT the same game that it was when most of us went.

My best advice and words of wisdom from my sister - the helicoptoring MOM. NETWORK. Network with the moms a year ahead of your son. Network with the moms of your son's classmates who already got a child in a school or major your son is interested in. Network with the parents' whose kids who go private high school.

 

[davemy]

My Daughter told me where she was going and she didn't care what me and her mother thought. She is in the Nursing Program at Duquesne and is entering her Senior year and will graduate in fours years. We had money put away where she could of gone to a state school and would of had no debt when she graduated. She didn't care. Now she's going to have lots of debt and payments afterward. Pittsburgh is a great college town, my daughter loves it there.

 

[NWL]

A lot has changed since most of us here on TUG had to decide where to go. In the mid 1970's, I had to rely on my Guidance Counselor to find me a list of schools that had majors in Broadcasting and Film. Not many students asked for that information, so she really had to work to find schools for me to consider. She did a great job with the resources she had and I always remember Mrs. Cashion with great fondness!

Flash forward to 4 years ago. My sister goes to church with a woman who has a company that looks for schools for students based on a questionnaire that they fill out that asks them what they want to major in, urban or rural school, cost, etc. My sister worked out a special rate for her services, and my niece is now a very happy Junior at Ithaca College majoring in, you guessed it, Broadcasting.

Since you're in Pa., don't discount Penn State, my alma mater.

Cheers!

 

[vacationhopeful]

PS My sister has her 2nd son entering the 11th Grade in August. :hysterical:

He has a great academic record in the county wide S.T.E.M. high school - 125 kids with special teachers, summer mandatory 2 week session, guest lecturers, optional clubs, etc. Phys Ed classes are held after school or before school as their day is too full. 4 years of this special HS education.

Her saga and college visits have started again.

 

[Conan]

We found this useful. It's limited to 376 'name' schools, and has useful statistics and reviews/comparisons on each
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Colleges-College-Admissions-Guides/dp/0375428399/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311722756&sr=1-1

 

[Zac495]

Wow - great posts so far.
A kid with almost 1600 didn't get into CM? That's so odd to me!
We go see Penn State next week!
This is fun, but confusing. I guess he'll have to just apply and see where he gets in - and then get more info. I mean - why do tons of research on CM if he doesn't get in? He is very mature and ready almost now - so he will go at 18.

His grades are straight A's thru 10th - he's taking 2 AP courses next year so we'll see - that will be the true test.

I wonder if the private schools are "harder.".....

 

[e.bram]

I agree with Ride except that I would add MIT, Caltech and Stanford.

 

[ondeadlin]

Ellen,

I just finished law school, a career-change that allowed me to spend a great deal of time with some really talented 20-somethings who had just emerged from the undergrad experience.

The No. 1 thing they told me is that they really had very little idea what they wanted in life when they went to undergrad (and, for many of them, still hadn't figured it out, which was why they were in law school).

The No. 2 thing they told me is that they wished they'd been more aware how crippling student loans would be. My 20-something friends were almost universally carrying between $20k and $80k in student loans. It's not just from prestigious schools, either - many of them wracked up big numbers from schools you'd have barely heard of. Many of them took out loans not only for their tuition, but their living expenses - and were doing it again at law school!

My strong belief is that aside from a few super elite schools and a few particular programs, your undergraduate degree doesn't make much difference in your life outcome - the hustlers and workers succeed, regardless. Picking a college these days is too often about parents trying to impress other parents, or kids wanting a football team to root for.

My guess is if your kid works hard, he will succeed regardless. But he'll have a higher quality of life if he has fewer loans.

When it's time for my kids to pick, I'll encourage them to take a scholarship to a "lesser" school over paying big money at a big name.

And now, for nerdy facts:

Pitt is actually a historically private school. It's now called "state-related," but isn't really a public school like, say, Penn State. The state supplies 9 percent of its budget, but it's controlled by a private board.

 

[jlwquilter]

The top kids at good quality colleges and universities are all very bright indeed. The top kid at Harvard isn't necessarily smarter than the top kid at any other good university. Where it shakes out IMHO is the range of student 'quality'. The poorest performer at Harvard is probably better than the poorest performer at U of XYZ.

Money does matter. Alot of very smart kids can't go to the big buck schools. And some can't because of other reasons, like family situations.

I think fit is very important. Your child has to feel comfortable and excited/eager to go and prepared mentally to give it the best shot possible.

OMG - college shopping after 10th grade?! I thought I had more time....

 

[vacationhopeful]

Ellen,
My nephew was not near serious enough on this first essays and he is very quiet in interviews at the colleges. His verbal SAT score was around 640 and I never got the essay number. The AP Level 2 math is very hard and he only got 1 answer wrong. And yes, 800 means no wrong answers on the 3 hour test.

But I can't tell you loud enough to network with the other parents. My sister learn so much more than from the books or school vs her assortment of connections. Her middle child's friend had a sister in the International Backulaute HS applying for colleges and another of his friends was the older boy's teammate in the robotic's club (they roomed together on the 7 nite trip to London, too).

The colleges are trying to get a balance in their majors. CM is top notch in computers which is my nephew's desire field. We truly were not that surprised - it would have been a much bigger surprise IF he had gotten in. That PIA boy, who truly was the star kid of testing and classroom and screen & stage, was getting rejection notices nonstop. Yes, smart with a personality who told you how smart. My sister did not know he even applied to U of MD.

The nephew's parents were happy he didn't choose Va Tech - fine school, but this is not the kid who should be a 5-6hr drive from home. Lehigh was his parent's college; he thought they would want him to go there also. U of MD is a fine fit.

Think of it this way - our population has more than tripled here in the US. Our HS going to college has grown even bigger. Most colleges (and the new colleges) have NOT double, let along triple or quadroupled to met the demand. When I applied to college, there were 8 Ivy League schools and 7 Sister schools. Bet their enrollments have not even gone up 150% in those years.

 

[CMF]

Consider a two year community college and then going to the most respected school that fits the student's personality and offers the course of study desired.

Charles

 

[vacationhopeful]

OMG - college shopping after 10th grade?! I thought I had more time....

U of Maryland's Scholar's program had an application date of Oct 31st in the senior year. That is NOT the early decision application date.

And the applications are all done online now.

 

[heathpack]

It definitely matters where you go- a good school will give you a better education, which is the whole point. However, there are a great many public colleges that can do the job more cost effectively and not leave the student massively in debt.

In my mind, he should be looking at the college which will provide the broadest possible opportunity at the least cost, there is no way he can know what he wants to do right now. In high school, my interests were 100% literature and history, totally hated science. In college, I changed majors a number of times: history, English, comparative literature (classical Chinese poetry of all things), biology, and chemistry (not so much a waffler, just was interested in a lot of things). Finally graduated with a degree in English literature & then went to veterinary school. So one never can tell what you'll do, I say go for a big affordable public university.

Another comment: I personally think it is a great thing to leave your local area for college, exposure yourself to another subculture of the US. I grew up on Long Island, in the suburbs of NYC. Went to North Carolina for college, awesome experience, boy was my mind blown by shaggin', pig pickins, NASCAR and Cheerwine. It was totally different than the world I knew previously and a very broadening experience.

H

 

[Helene4]

Physically go and LOOK at the school. Both of my kids walked onto 2 different campuses and said "Let's get back in the car". Seeing the other students, campus and location really are as important as the education, because if they are miserable from a bad choice, the quality of the educators won't matter.

 

[carl2591]

know what they call some one who graduates from Harvard or some one that graduates from another school with a medical degree...


That's right doctor.. the degree from Harvard leaves you with thousands more debt than the other school. You might get a nicer position with a Harvard degree or not, either way you still have to pay it back. (student loans.)


I think the comment about 2yrs at community college make the most sense.

 

[ronparise]

Physically go and LOOK at the school. Both of my kids walked onto 2 different campuses and said "Let's get back in the car". Seeing the other students, campus and location really are as important as the education, because if they are miserable from a bad choice, the quality of the educators won't matter.

Nothing better than a college tour to help make the decision

 

[ampaholic]

know what they call some one who graduates from Harvard or some one that graduates from another school with a medical degree...


That's right doctor.. the degree from Harvard leaves you with thousands more debt than the other school. You might get a nicer position with a Harvard degree or not, either way you still have to pay it back. (student loans.)


I think the comment about 2yrs at community college make the most sense.

Does a Harvard Degree have value:

Caroline Hoxby, an economist at Harvard specializing in the economics of education, has done research on just that question. She placed several hundred schools in eight ranks based on the SAT scores of their students. She looked at students who entered these colleges in 1960, 1972, and 1982, then examined their earnings at age 32.

Using 1997-98 tuition figures, Hoxby concluded that a student who gave up a full scholarship at a Rank Three private college to pay full price at a Rank One selective college earned back the difference in cost 3.4 times over his lifetime. Those who moved from paying average tuition at a Rank Three public college to paying average tuition at a Rank One private school earned back the difference in cost more than 30 times over. That remarkable statistic demonstrates the very real gap between what happens in classrooms at, say, the University of Florida and MIT.

I guess size, er quality does matter