[2011] How do you choose the right college?

[BocaBum99]

I can't believe I spent today looking at colleges with my son. He's going into 11th so it's a little early -but it felt right. We saw Pitt and Carnegie Mellon today.

Are the private colleges (like Carnegie) really going to give a kid a HUGE boost over a very good college like Pitt?

What is most important? How did those of you who have been through this choose? What did you take into consideration (besides the obvious answer of money).

thanks all!

Ellen,

At the end of the day, what matters the most is the University that is going to inspire your son to put everything he has into something with total passion. It needs to be the place that he loves and will always identify as his alma mater. Attending an Ivy League University is meaningless if he doesn't love it.

Top Universities open more doors. They also tend to have more competitive students. But, all that is trumped by the talent and drive of the graduate when they leave school.

I agree with the idea of visiting a bunch of Universities. It will be obvious which one is right for your son.

I am currently in the process with my oldest son who will be a senior in high school. We are heading next week to the East Coast to visit Universities there. He already took a trip to California with his class during Spring Break. So, he is already zeroing in on the Universities he wants to attend. He just needs to apply and get accepted.

 

[bogey21]

TRUTH! It doesn't matter where you go - it matters how you do and how you end up.

A lot of truth to this. It took me 12 years and 9 universities to graduate because of time in the military and night school as I was transferred multiple times by my employer. I went to some well regarded private universities and a number of State schools. IMO the calibur of instruction was about the same everywhere. Some great instructors in the least likely places and some duds in some of the better (by reputation) schools.

My advice would be Junior College for 2 years then choose where to go by what your Son was going to major in.

I will list the schools I attended to give you some perspective as to my comments. University of North Carolina; San Jose State; Drexel University; University of Houston; Washington University (St Louis); New York University; St Josephs and Temple (both in Philadelphia); and Southern Illinois University where I graduated with Honors.

George

 

[jlr10]

Take your son to the schools. The very best advice. DS was accepted at 5 colleges, in the engineering department. He walked onto the campus at CalPoly Pomona listened to a few professors and said "Yep. This is where I want to go." He liked it and has been quite happy going there.

What I liked in the Orientation was there comparison between CalPoly Pomona and CalPoly San Luis Obisbo (SLO.) SLO is more impacted and is supposed to be harder to get into (DS did not apply there.) As they pointed out at the end, those who graduate with an engineering degree from CalPoly Pomona are still getting a great degree from a highly ranked school, and will be able to do the exact same work as those graduating from SLO. ( -Best part were the t-shirts they sell "What do people who graduate from SLO call those who graduate from CalPoly Pomona? -Boss" keeping it all in perspective)

I spoke to several engineers and asked them if the school made a big difference. All said it might make a very slight difference in the first job only. After that it is all about what they can do.

Several of DS's friends went away to expensive out of state colleges. Many have dropped out and have student loans they will have to pay back, with no degree to show for it. DS is still debt free at a state college and slowly working towards his degree at a school he likes. We think he made the right choice, but it was one we let him make.

 

[Conan]

Besides working on a list of schools to apply to, you also have to play the admissions game. So many kids have high grades and AP courses, it's extracurriculars and intangibles that can make the difference. Public service, especially if the kid can find a need and start a program to address it, are the surest way to give the committee what it's looking for.

 

[Serina]

Ellen,

At the end of the day, what matters the most is the University that is going to inspire your son to put everything he has into something with total passion. It needs to be the place that he loves and will always identify as his alma mater.

I agree! My DS is going into 11th grade... Just remember to enjoy the time with your kids in their junior and senior years in high school. I've seen too many parents worry (and make their kids crazy) over college choices that they forget to enjoy their last couple of years at home. There's lots of great colleges/universities out there - it needs to be a good fit for your child.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

I think that Boca has it right on.

I went to a large high school where I was in the top ten per cent of my class and most of my friends were in the top 20 (which made them in the top 4 per cent - it was a big school). They were both smarter and harder working than I was. Of those approximately 30 friends (we were all in AP classes for everything), ONLY ONE PERSON that went to one of the large state universities graduated. He was an engineer that went to Texas A&M. Several of the young women went to University of Texas and had what I would describe as nervous breakdowns.

I won a full ride scholarship to a small private liberal arts college which almost no one has ever heard of: Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas. There used to not be much to do in Georgetown, so most of the students do things on campus. It led to a great college experience for me. I changed my major from chemistry to economics because the business building was air conditioned and the science building was not - and I think that I ended up better off for it. I absolutely loved school there. Most of my best friends are people that I met there.

I had narrowed my choices to the two extremes: large public schools (University of Texas and A&M) and small private liberal arts schools (Austin College and Southwestern). I did a college weekend at Southwestern. And I knew that was where I wanted to go.

I think that visiting the campuses to get to the short list is important. Knowing what you think you want to major in and finding a college that has a first rate program in your desired major comes second.

I thought that Carnegie Mellon has an excellent endowment which allows lots of financial aid for their students, but I might be wrong. It certainly is an excellent engineering school. One of my uncles graduated with his PhD from there (while it was named something else that I don't remember). He invented RAM memory and is a fellow at IBM. But, his undergraduate degree was from SMU because it was much closer to home.

I think that a good fit is most important. If all you do is sit in your dorm room and smoke (like my friends that went to UT), it doesn't matter how smart you are or what your major is because you will be miserable and drop out.

The only way to judge a good fit is to try it on.

elaine

 

[davhu1]

Ellen,

It is not too early. This is the time where you S needs to have an idea what he wants to major and start looking for programs that are intersting to him. Determine what type of college fits him better (size, location, public, private...). Get a list of about a dozen colleges that includes safety, match and reach. Make college visit in the spring and narrow down the list in the summer before senior year. You will likely change the list after college visits and meeting with the HS counselor.

Find out what the colleges on the list is looking for and thier emphasis: GPA, SAT, EC and essay. Start on SAT prep. Round up the EC list (many look for leadership positions and voluteering). Many college post their essay by August. Never to early to put your thoughts together and start a draft.

When applying, remember that it is not how good your GPA, SAT, etc, but how the college wants to formulate thier class among the applicants. At an information session in Cornell, the admission officer says "4.0 and perfect SATs, we have plenty of those, but if we need a trombone player in our band and we think you can do well, then you are in." Another words, find the nich. Also public school are not inferior to Ivies. Many top students choose them for financial reasons. Some top public schools are extremely competitive, specially for out of state students. Students with 4.0 and nearly perfect SAT are known not getting accetpted at UC Berkely and UVA.


CM has a very good reputation for enginnering and computer science and is more favorable for job recruiment, provided the students have similar credentials. Certainly a top student at Pitt would do better than someone at the bottom of the class at CM. If CM is your S first choice, consider attending thier pre-college program if cost is not an issue. Not sure that it will help, but everyone my S knew who attended were accepted. (My S attended but choose not to apply).

I think the most important thing is to find a college with the best fit with opportunities to participate in other area of interest. Some tuggers suggested comminity college first. My S said the transfers from community college he knows do not do well and take a siginificant hit in their gpa in his school. I would do some investigating how strong is you community college and how well can they prepare you to the college of your choice.

collegeconfidential.com is a forum all about colleges. Have fun with your college search.

 

[Twinkstarr]

I went to Purdue and majored in chemistry, after being accepted at Northwestern(dad put his foot down as way too much for tuition), Illinois, UVA, Boston College and at the time the automatic acceptance at Ohio State due to GPA/ACT.

Get out and look at the schools. I hated the layout at OSU way too big and spread out. I really liked the Purdue campus as it was rather compact for a big university. I took 2yrs of chemistry in hs, so I was put in advanced freshman chemistry. Some of those classmates are still friends 20+yrs later.

While Purdue is great if you are interested in science, engineering, agriculture, it was somewhat of a joke if you were interested in liberal arts. So I would look at what subjects the school is strong in.

One of my friends was a political science major, I don't think I ever saw her write a paper. She hardly had any work other than to read and take tests.

And yes I did see kids who were highly ranked in their hs classes crumble under the pressure of their first year of college and quit. One girl didn't even make it the 1st month of school, lived down the hall from me.

Also noticed some non-Midwesterners leave after a semester or 2. My one friend ended up having her own room for most of the year after her roomate headed back to NYC after Thanksgiving.

 

[DebBrown]

Ellen,

I just finished law school, a career-change that allowed me to spend a great deal of time with some really talented 20-somethings who had just emerged from the undergrad experience.

The No. 1 thing they told me is that they really had very little idea what they wanted in life when they went to undergrad (and, for many of them, still hadn't figured it out, which was why they were in law school).

The No. 2 thing they told me is that they wished they'd been more aware how crippling student loans would be. My 20-something friends were almost universally carrying between $20k and $80k in student loans. It's not just from prestigious schools, either - many of them wracked up big numbers from schools you'd have barely heard of. Many of them took out loans not only for their tuition, but their living expenses - and were doing it again at law school!

My strong belief is that aside from a few super elite schools and a few particular programs, your undergraduate degree doesn't make much difference in your life outcome - the hustlers and workers succeed, regardless. Picking a college these days is too often about parents trying to impress other parents, or kids wanting a football team to root for.

My guess is if your kid works hard, he will succeed regardless. But he'll have a higher quality of life if he has fewer loans.

When it's time for my kids to pick, I'll encourage them to take a scholarship to a "lesser" school over paying big money at a big name.

I agree with the above! Having four kids go to college, I've been through this a few times and watched their friends go through it too. NONE of my kids and only about 20% of their friends graduated from the school they attended as freshman. After all the time put into make a college choice, it seems many kids still don't pick the best school for them.

My youngest is on his third school and at least his third major. He will graduate this year with no debt and is happy with his choices and prospects.

Deb

 

[e.bram]

If you get into an IVY (or MIT, Caltech and Stanford)go for it. It gives a kind of elitism(good or bad?) which aids one's self confidence for your whole life. You know, "I went to *******".

 

[tombo]

Look at the top 25 football rankings. Like Coach Bryant said: it is great to have a distinguished math department but you can never get the alumni to rally around the math team (paraphrased).

You mention Penn State. We beat them last year and will play at Penn State this year. If we win 2 in a row you have to rule Penn State out and choose Bama.

The reality is that Bama's out of state tutition and that of many southern universities is often cheaper than in state at many northern Universities. One of my best friends in college was from Michigan and his father was a VP worldwide of a Ford division. He came to Bama for the football (spectator not player) and said it was cheaper than in state at Michigan State.

All kidding aside unless you are wealthy OR POOR, Ivy League schools are unaffordable. The poor go there for free subsidised byt the wealthy, the government, and the working stiffs who go too far in debt for a 4 year degree IMO. At about $60,000 to $70,000 a year a 4 year Ivy degree will cost $200,000 or more compared to around $50,000 for a public school. The connections and jobs will undoubtably be better at the Ivy league schools, but if you have 2 kids a $400,000 outlay over an 8 year period is just not feasible for most.

Look at their desired degree and search for the best public schools on the net. My school is ranked 34th on the 2011 USA Today's top schools. Florida, Georgia, and UNC Chapel Hill are tope 20.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...ges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

Sela Ward who went to Alabama and is an Emmy award winning actress. I know a space shuttle atsronaut who piloted 4 shuttle missions and went on several others as a crew member who received his engineering degree from Bama. I know a lawyer (Bama's law school is one of the top ranked in the whole USA) who is on CNN and FOX news discussing current cases often, He owns a 15 million dollar summer home in south Florida, a maryland Home woth millions, and a 2 bed room condo with a rooftop balcony a few blocks from the capital worth millions. 3 examples of what can be done with a degree from a public university. If they were Ivy graduates they would be shown as what you can do with an Ivy league dgree. They are however simply Bama graduates that dunn good. A public college degree does not limit one's career opportunities, and it is much more affordable.

 

[Elan]

I would recommend that your child go somewhere that makes them optimistic, motivated, independent and responsible for their own success/failure (no blaming mom/dad later for them washing out, etc).

Beyond that, nobody really cares where one went to school.

 

[CapriciousC]

If you get into an IVY (or MIT, Caltech and Stanford)go for it. It gives a kind of elitism(good or bad?) which aids one's self confidence for your whole life. You know, "I went to *******".

As an MIT grad, I agree with this. It's been 20 years since I finished my undergrad there, and it still carries a cache that hasn't worn off.

Seriously, though - I agree to look at what your son wants to major in, and also what he wants to do with that degree when he finishes. Is he interested in grad school? Does he want to work in the private sector or academia? Does he want to stay in the local area or have the ability to move around the country (and potentially the world) and have people recognize the name of the school he attended?

I think that going to a big name school is more important at the graduate level than at the undergraduate level. The connections you make can serve you throughout your career.

If he has a reasonable idea of what he wants to do, try to find someone who currently does that job for a living and ask them what they think, what they think worked for them and what didn't, what they would have done differently, etc.

 

[1950bing]

As one other said here, just check out the football program !
SEC has the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing like NCAA football

 

[e.bram]

But you always only an alumnus of your undergraduate institution.

 

[CapriciousC]

As one other said here, just check out the football program !
SEC has the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing like NCAA football

I would, however, add the caution that the big football schools in the south tend to not be as well regarded academically outside of the south. Here in Georgia people tend to think you can't do much better than UGA or Georgia Tech - in New York, Boston, Chicago, etc. the attitude is not the same.

 

[tombo]

I would, however, add the caution that the big football schools in the south tend to not be as well regarded academically outside of the south. Here in Georgia people tend to think you can't do much better than UGA or Georgia Tech - in New York, Boston, Chicago, etc. the attitude is not the same.

I assume that is your opinion. USA Today has a different more objective ranking system which shows the southern Universities are ranked higher than the NY schools. New York's top rated public school (SUNY) is ranked number 34 and tied with Bama. The second highest rated New York school is Bingham Suny ranked 38 according to USA Todays 2011 poll. Georgia is ranked 18th far ahead of any New York public school. So not only are the locals proud of their college's athletic teams, they are also correct that Georgia is a higher academically ranked institution than any New York Public University according to the 2011 rankings of a national (not regional) publication.

Often people in the north east assume the south is uneducated and that our institutions of higher learning are lacking compared to many of their local institutions. Well look at the USA today 2011 rankings and many southern schools are top ranked, yet zero York Universities made the top 30. UNC Chapel hill is ranked 5th, University of Texas Austin is 13th, University of Florida is ranked 17th, Georgia is ranked 18th (tied with Purdue, Ohio State, and Univ of Maryland), Clemson is ranked 23rd, Virginia Tech is 27th,

#34 Miami University--Oxford
Oxford, OH

#34 Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI

#34 SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry
Syracuse, NY

#34 University of Alabama
Tuscaloosa, AL

#38 Auburn University
Auburn University, AL

#39 Binghamton University--SUNY

Bama was ranked 34th in Public Universities, but 79 against ALL universities including the Ivy leagues.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+9

A great athletic tradition does not preclude a University from excelling in academics too. Often the desire to win on the field is combined with the desire to win in the class room permeating the entire campus with enthusiasm and optimism. Typically schools with poor athletic programs like to proclaim that their education is better simply because they are tired of losing in sports.

Bloomberg rates bama's business program top 30 in the US.
http://uanews.ua.edu/2011/06/two-ua-business-programs-in-top-30-in-bloomberg-businessweek-survey/

Here is a nice quote: "Out of 2,400 public and private universities nationwide, UA ranked No. 24 in number of National Merit scholars enrolled"
http://uanews.ua.edu/2010/02/ua-in-the-news-february-10-2010/

As an alumni if your football program is great you have reasons to return to campus and cheer on your alma mater each and every year. As an alumni if your school's debate team is world class and your child is not on that team, who cares? I would love to see a school with a waiting list for season tickets to debate or math competitions. Having a great athletic program combined with great academics is the best of both worlds. Don't be a hater....

 

[ondeadlin]

Tombo,

Fair or not, the statement that an SEC won't carry much weight out of SEC country is probably true, with the exception of Vandy.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's certainly my experience over two careers.

Alabama's law school, btw, is top 30, top 35. Very respectable, but you really have to be in the top 15 to be considered a "top" law school.

As someone who made a living covering college sports at the highest level, I think it's a corrosive force on academics. Too often it attracts students who are more interested in partying and socializing than excelling academically.

 

[CapriciousC]

Often people in the north east assume the south is undecuated and that our institutions of higher education are lacking compare to many of their local institutions.

Don't be a hater....

I'm not being a hater, and I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. As you can see, I live in Georgia. However, I've lived a lot of other places before I lived here (including Europe). Your initial comment quoted above is correct - people assume that academic institutions in the southern US are substandard. Whether that assumption is right or wrong is somewhat irrelevant - it IS the assumption of a lot of people. I just think it's something to factor in when considering a university. When it comes time for our daughter to choose a school, my husband and I have every intention of encouraging her to look outside of the southeast, simply because of the above-mentioned prejudices/assumptions about schools in the south. Whatever US News says, people are going to believe what they're going to believe.

My husband attended (and played football for) the University of Southern California. He is the first to admit that it's a great football school, but not necessarily the best academic school for all given majors. We both work in aerospace, and I can tell you that in our field, people don't give a damn how good your school's football team was, they care about the quality of education you received. However well the Bulldogs may be doing, a Georgia Tech grad is going to be better respected in our field because their engineering program is superior.

I went to MIT. We were certainly not known for athletics, but the school doesn't suffer in terms of alumni involvement and/or financial contributions, by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm glad that you're happy with your alma mater, as I am with mine. I'm just trying to put out a differing viewpoint. As a former college professor, I honestly wish schools would focus more on academics and less on athletics, but yes, that's just my opinion.

 

[tombo]

We both work in aerospace, and I can tell you that in our field, people don't give a damn how good your school's football team was, they care about the quality of education you received. .

I guess NASA didn't get the memo that Bama is only good for football because I personally knew an astonaut (recently deceased) who was the commander of several Space Shutlle missions. My kids each have patches from various missions that were flown in space on various shuttle flights and I was invited to be VIP at several launches (never made it but my parents did twice).

He graduated from Alabama. I guess his education stacked up somehow huh? How much higher could he have gone if only he had obtained a degree from MIT? By the way how many space shuttles have you and your husband piloted? Roll Tide Roll!!!!!!!!

 

[CapriciousC]

I guess NASA didn't get the memo that Bama is only good for football because I personally knew an astonaut (recently deceased) who was the commander of several Space Shutlle missions. My kids each have patches from various missions that were flown in space on various shuttle flights and I was invited to be VIP at several launches (never made it but my parents did twice).

He graduated from Alabama. I guess his education stacked up somehow huh? How much higher could he have gone if only he had obtained a degree from MIT? By the way how many space shuttles have you and your husband piloted? Roll Tide Roll!!!!!!!!

Really? I'm going to step away at this point, because this entire exchange is childish.

 

[tombo]

I'm not being a hater, and I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone.

You said SEC schools are not respected and back it up with nothing but your opinion. I show national rankings to refute your feelings with facts. I personally do not like to have my alma mater and my degree maligned. You make such statements somehow assuming others would not be offended? Really? You actually didn't think that branding all southern Universities (with the exception of Vanderbilt) as Universities that garner no respect outside of the south would be offensive? Perhaps a common sense curriculum should be added to the math reqirements at MIT.

I must from your assertions assume that if I say MIT was only ranked 7th out of the Ivy League Schools and not nearly as well respected respected as Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, etc that you wouldn't take offense or respond to defend you school either.

I went to MIT. We were certainly not known for athletics, but the school doesn't suffer in terms of alumni involvement and/or financial contributions, by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm glad that you're happy with your alma mater, as I am with mine. .

I go to my campus 6 or 7 times a year to tailgate and hang out with friends prior to and after our home football games. It is a huge social event and very exciting. I get depressed in January after the last college game ends and excited in August as the upcoming season approaches. To be honest if not for football I might not step foot on our campus ever again or send a dollar in donations.

Many wealthy alumni from MIT donate to MIT for a tax write off. I assume most MIT grads do not return unless it is to speak or receive an award for their donations. Do you go back to MIT every year and if so why? Just curious what the draw would be. Fencing? Rowing? The math team?

 

[Elan]

I would, however, add the caution that the big football schools in the south tend to not be as well regarded academically outside of the south. Here in Georgia people tend to think you can't do much better than UGA or Georgia Tech - in New York, Boston, Chicago, etc. the attitude is not the same.

Given that most folks east of the Mississippi still regard the area west of the Mississippi as a vast, unexplored wilderness , I'm not sure regional biases are all that relevant.

There are highly rated and poorly rated schools all over the country. More importantly, regardless of a school's academic reputation, one's success in their chosen field is far more dependent on their own motivation/ability than the name of the institution on their diploma. As was mentioned earlier, the only impact of ones school's reputation might be in landing a first job. Beyond that, one's accomplishments should speak far louder than their educational background.

 

[NWL]

Given the tone of some of the more recent responses, I think I know where the OP will not be taking her son for school visits.

Cheers!

 

[vacationhopeful]

... I must from your assertions assume that if I say MIT was only ranked 7th out of the Ivy League Schools and not nearly as well respected respected as Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, etc that you wouldn't take offense or respond to defend you school either.
.

MIT is NOT an Ivy League school .... nor is Stanford an Ivy School.

U of Penn
Princeton
Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Yale

are the Ivy League schools.