[2009] SCAM WARNING - Beware Of Westgate Sales Group Rentals

[timeshare-scams]

This really takes Timeshare Scams to a deeper level, a brand name is used, it all looks good and you feel pay-pal is a safe way to pay so what can you do to protect yourself?
I would recommend that if you are told they have a week available to rent...BEFORE you pay any money you should be allowed to confirm the resort, the name on the week and the check-in days and ask for proof of this booking to be mailed to you, even a faxed copy of the booking.
Why should you have to wait back from the owners? If they have put the week for rent and agreed on a price then once you confirm interest and agree to pay the funds the owner does not need to asked if all is ok, they have put there week for rent, a check –in date at the resort is in place and all that is needed is proof to you that the week is booked and you will be confirmed as the name checking in on that week. This should all be done in writing not by phone call. At worst you could pay a $50 deposit?

It sounds like the week was never there and if this company can turn up grab 100 clients for $1000 then it’s not been a bad few months work…… I feel for the people scammed, if you are robbed from your home of money then a criminal punishment will happen when caught. This is no different and I hope they are caught soon.

 

[gkuhrt]

I wanted to warn everyone about an unfortunate experience I am fighting as I wright this. I posted a request for a rental week back in June and recieved a response from Westgate stating they had the week I needed. After speaking with the agent and confirming the availability I sent payment via PayPal. This is when the fun began. After multiple emails and phone calls I was informed that the owner was not following through. I was thankfully able to find another property owner with the same week, but the refund or credit has yet to be settled. I will not say this is a fraudelent company at this point but at the very least I would avoid them because of the lack of professionalism. I will keep this thread updated as to the outcome of my grievences with PayPal and AM_EX. I do not know if posting the agent name is allowed but if so I will certainly provide in a later response. Thanks and be aware, Paul.

I am having the same problem with the same guy. Put a deposit through PayPal & was promised a reservation confirmation by mid July. I have sent numerous e-mails & left lots of messages on his answering machine with no response. I even sent a PayPal invoice for a refund. This is also with "William Wright" of Westgate Sales Group. I have managed to trace the e-mails to Delray Beach Florida, the Fort Lauderdale branch of the Broward County library, and Pompano Beach Florida. I have a rental contract with an Oakland Park Florida address with a Barnesville GA phone number. Any recommendations from anyone on how to get our money back would be appreciated. I'm assuming we're SOL but it's worth a try or he'll keep doing this to others.

 

[dioxide45]

The best way to protect yourself would be to use an escrow company to hold the funds. Once you check in you can notify the escrow agent to release the fund to the renter. If they refuse to use an escrow agent, then something is probably not right.

 

[gkuhrt]

hey,there,,
don't beat your self up over this.. the fact you posted here may be helpful for others that are looking at renting with this scum bag..

will be interesting to see how paypal handles this.. might be in the future only deal with credit card as you have more rights and power in this type of case..

good luck and let us know how it goes..


ps: how did you find this company.. if on craigs list do a couple posting about what has happened to you..

something like " beware of Westgate Rentals" ask me before you rent."

that might be a bunch more eye on and put a crimp in there style..

To answer your question on how we found him: We had posted a wish on TUG & that's how he caught us. He seems to have been fishing the time share sites.

 

[gkuhrt]

I have recieved 2 calls and a PM regarding this issue in the past week, so ill add a global announcement to the top of the forums here in a sec.

A few things to point out.

1. it does not appear this gentleman works for westgate in any capacity given his emails use public/free domains.

ie johndoe@msn.com or gmail.com etc etc, rest assured that ANYONE who is working for a resort or legitimate timeshare company is not going to send you an email from his or her personal public email address.

Also note that you can make an email look like it came from ANYWHERE, so be sure to pay close attention to the reply to email address, not the display email address. it could say it came from president@whitehouse.gov and really come from abc@hotmail.com etc etc.

2. paypal requires a valid bank account in order to accept payments, so for those of you ripped off, reporting the same account (assuming he used it) and getting the police involved hopefully will allow paypal to release that information to help track down his real identity for law enforcement.

3. if anyone wishes to contact me privately with info, vs posting publicly...i will compile what I can to provide to law enforcement if necessary.

I don't mind posting publicly as I'm sure lots of people would like to know about this. The more that know, the more likel;y he'll be caught. I have a signed rental contract with Oakland Park Florida address, Barnesville GA phone number, and a sample of his handwriting. I have also saved all e-mail with full headers which can be used to trace the source.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

If they refuse to use an escrow agent, then something is probably not right.

I don't think that statement is at all accurate, and I think it's totally incorrect and unrealistic to tell people looking to rent that "something is probably not right" if an owner will not use an escrow with those types of terms.

Do you personally know of any situations where an owner has rented a unit with that type of an escrow? I'm not aware of any.

Further as an owner who occasionally rents units I certainly would never enter into that type of escrow arrangement, and if a renter insisted on using an escrow with those terms I would tell the renter to please rent from someone else. Further I believe that most owners who rent timeshares regularly would never rent a unit with an escrow under those conditions.

Those terms leave the owner totally exposed to an unscrupulous renter to raise a phony dispute about some aspect of the unit with the intent of getting part or all of their money back. At that point, the renter has every bit of leverage to extort whatever they want from the owner, with the threat that the renter will not authorize escrow to release the funds to the owner unless the owner accedes to the renter's demand.

*******

More power to a renter if they can find an owner who will give them that degree of assurance. But the reality is that if the renter wants that degree of assurance that they are not being scammed, they should rent from the resort or through a large commercial site such as Expedia.

Sure the renter will then pay two to ten times as much money for the rental, but that is the price that a renter needs to pay if the renter requires that degree of certainty.

One of the big reasons why it's cheaper to rent from an owner than from the resort is that the owner is not a large, ongoing commercial operation. Inevitably that entails added risk for the renter, but that's factored into the price.

*******

Most legitimate owners will provide documentation that they actually have a right to use the unit they are renting. I would say that a renter should run, don't walk, from an agreement in which the "owner" is unwilling to document ownership.

If that does not adequately allay the renters concerns, then the renter should not even be in the market to rent from an owner.

 

[Ken555]

Paypal was horrible to deal with by the way. they kept telling me there was nothing they could do and would not even flag his account because my claims of fraud were only speculation. I will NEVER use Paypal again because it is apparent to me that they have no issueswith being used as a middleman for fraud.

This is why I always use a credit card when purchasing items via merchants who insist on Paypal. I never let them get cash. Had I not done this years ago I would have been out some $3,800 (as it is, I disputed the charge with my credit card company and Paypal simply closed my account since I didn't let them run their lengthy (and questionable) dispute process).

 

[sayhello]

I feel sorry to hear you guys' storys..
lucky me , I don't have that scam problem.
I would say, just take care of your money when u need to pay...
cause it's not easy to get them back when something's wrong..
good luck.
keep this post up..

 

[gkuhrt]

Unfortunately this is very true and TUG just happens to be the place people come to when this type of thing happens. That is the reason so many people logged on the same day. I am the one that started the original post to warn everyone prior to confirming this guy was a fraud. I was hoping to help someone avoid my situation. Between myself and a couple others we have contacted the Florida AG, westgate and the FBI's internet fraud department with complaints. I have not heard anything lately but hopefully someone can track this guy down or at the very least keep him from victimising someone else. I think most people have tried to get a refund thru their CC companies and will see how it works out. Thanks for all the support here and the tips from the admin. It all seemed so legit at the time but you live and learn. I am one of the lucky one's I guess because I was able to find a week from an owner and financially was able to still enjoy our vacation. I just really feel for some of the other people that saved for a long time and had their dreams crushed by this worm. All I can say is Karma is real and may he get whatever he has coming. Thanks again, Paul.

I.ve also contacted the Florida AG with my pieces. Would it be worthwhile filing with the Georgia AG as the phone is a Barnesville number?

 

[california-bighorn]

Drivable

We do have airline tickets to maui from sept. 21st to the 28th. we are getting married on Sept 19th. we are looking for a timeshare on the island of maui but have basically wiped out all our money on this horrible scam. we are thinking of just taking whatever money we get from the wedding, flying out to maui just finding a little motel on the island and just budget. It's unfortunate that it happened but we will NOT let it ruin our honeymoon! I hope this guy gets caught and Karma gets him really good.

Paypal was horrible to deal with by the way. they kept telling me there was nothing they could do and would not even flag his account because my claims of fraud were only speculation. I will NEVER use Paypal again because it is apparent to me that they have no issueswith being used as a middleman for fraud.

I don't know, but, can you have your bank go after PayPal and their account?

 

[gkuhrt]

I don't know, but, can you have your bank go after PayPal and their account?

I have been batting this back & forth with PayPal and they said that if they get multiple complaints on his account, they can re-open any claims for investigation up to 180 days after payments have been made. I encourage anyone who's made a payment to him through PayPal to file a complaint with them.

 

[roadtriper]

I have been batting this back & forth with PayPal and they said that if they get multiple complaints on his account, they can re-open any claims for investigation up to 180 days after payments have been made. I encourage anyone who's made a payment to him through PayPal to file a complaint with them.

Gary, I think we all have? Paypal should have at least a half dozen disputes against this guy. they got back to me and said that they found in my favor with my dispute, but were unable to recover any money for me. they also stated that if he wanted to use his account again that he would have to pay the refund first? that would make me assume they closed his account, but I don't know if that happened or not. RT

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

Escrow! No way

I rent out quite a few weeks each year and I will not work with any escrow:

(1) I do provide references (upto 10 if needed)
(2) I do provide my home and cell phone number where the rentee can call me to discuss
(3) I can also provide documentation of my reservation (in my name) for the unit that I am renting.
(4) I only ask for a modest $150 to $200 deposit (which can be via paypal) and remaining rent is collected once the rentee receives confirmation from the resort that the reservation is indeed in their name.

Once I do all of this, I do not see the need of the hassle of escrow!

I do wish that this scam artist is caught and people recover some or all of the lost money!

 

[TUGBrian]

new note as of 9/17/09

a gentleman by the name of Roy Anderson spammed a good number of tuggers on the marketplace with scam offers...given the significant number of emails I recieved asking "if this is a scam"....he was quite persuasive.

so...if you got an offer on your ad from Roy Anderson anderson.roy62@yahoo.com delete it.

 

[Rent_Share]

Not being the recipient of the SPAM -

Not sure how Roy Anderson ties to these scumbags

Did a search on this thread and didn't find him referenced

Thanks for the heads up

 

[TUGBrian]

I only put it here as its linked to the global scam accouncement at the top.

 

[Tamzeng]

I'm not an american citizen, but would this possibly fall under postal fraud? A number of years ago, I bought something from someone on Ebay, I did mail a cheque, but the product was not delivered. It wasn't paypal. Anyway, apparently this person scammed a number of people. I guess because we mailed a cheque, using the postal service, it would be considered mail fraud. did you mail anything to this guy?

 

[Rent_Share]

If you are referring the Original subject that might be an avenue, however the investigation needs to srtart at a local level and then the federal aspect might evolve

As to Mr. Anderson the scam artist

At this stage of the internet and eCommerce I really can't imagine how anyone could be taken in by the 419 scams or phishing attempts out there daily.

The fact that he is most likely in an internet cafe in Nigeria, harvesting emails for anything for sale whether he mailed a bogus cheque or not, there is no risk of US law enforcement chasing him down.

It's guys liek Roy that we can thank for 10 Day holds on deposits of significant amounts, even though the funds are clearing in hours

 

[stu44]

Suspicious?

That's what I like to hear after I've been conned out of $3,500...that my claims aren't legitimate. This guy took my money back in June for a January trip...i tried for weeks to get a confirmation from him. He just kept stringing me along saying the owners were taking a long time to get back to him. Then by August I got really suspicious and thought that maybe i had been scammed so I did a search and there it was...another person on TUG had been scammed. I checked him out back in June but there was nothing on the internet about him until the first post on July 29...I think he got a lot of the money back in June and since people plan vacations for future dates it took a while to realize that he was not going to come through. I think if anything sounds suspicious it's a person who goes onto a thread just to cast a shadow of doubt on people who have already been hurt by someone. Who does that?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

If you are referring the Original subject that might be an avenue, however the investigation needs to srtart at a local level and then the federal aspect might evolve

As to Mr. Anderson the scam artist

At this stage of the internet and eCommerce I really can't imagine how anyone could be taken in by the 419 scams or phishing attempts out there daily.

The fact that he is most likely in an internet cafe in Nigeria, harvesting emails for anything for sale whether he mailed a bogus cheque or not, there is no risk of US law enforcement chasing him down.

It's guys liek Roy that we can thank for 10 Day holds on deposits of significant amounts, even though the funds are clearing in hours

That's what I like to hear after I've been conned out of $3,500...that my claims aren't legitimate. This guy took my money back in June for a January trip...i tried for weeks to get a confirmation from him. He just kept stringing me along saying the owners were taking a long time to get back to him. Then by August I got really suspicious and thought that maybe i had been scammed so I did a search and there it was...another person on TUG had been scammed. I checked him out back in June but there was nothing on the internet about him until the first post on July 29...I think he got a lot of the money back in June and since people plan vacations for future dates it took a while to realize that he was not going to come through. I think if anything sounds suspicious it's a person who goes onto a thread just to cast a shadow of doubt on people who have already been hurt by someone. Who does that?

stu44 - No one is saying your claims re Westgate Sales Group aren't legit. I'm guessing that you are thinking that the post by Rent_Share is directed at Westgate Sales Group scam victims.

It's not; Rent_Share is specifically referencing the Roy Anderson scam that got folded into this thread.

 

[stu44]

i'm responding to FILLDE's post.

 

[BillWilliam]

Scams

Hi All,
Sorry about your losses on these scams. In the past I have had varied success in calling the police. It depends on who answers the phone. One time I received a scam email, I'm retired and bored much of the time, so I looked at where it really came from on the email header that contains all of the routing information. I started by calling the police in a small town in Italy. They traced the address to Malaysia. I called the police in that town and they traced it to Taiwan. Now I had the email for the police there and contacted them. They traced it to a small town in India and they gave me the email for that police department. Would this never end? I emailed the police in India and they responded right away that they were looking for this group. I gave them the tracking information from my email plus what the other police had given me. The next day I recieved an email congratulating me for my help in the arrrest. That was the good news. Other times when I have a complaint about a scam the local police could care less. When I had my own business one of my costumers refused to pay a bill. When I called him he had no complaint about my service he just was not going to pay. At the time I lived in a small town and as a photography studio I did a lot of business with the police dept. I called my friend, the chief of detectives, and he called the costomer. Within an hour the costomer came in with the payment.
Try calling other departments of the local police where you think this person from Westgate Sales Group is and add the information on the other people who have been scamed by him. If the police see a pattern of crime they may be more likly to respond. If all of you would cooperate togather in giving the imformation to the police they might help.

Best wishes,

Bill

 

[Rent_Share]

At the time I lived in a small town and as a photography studio I did a lot of business with the police dept. I called my friend, the chief of detectives, and he called the costomer. Within an hour the costomer came in with the payment.

Texas Justice

 

[helina]

Just Want To Tell The World

well, here goes...vacation sales and marketing claims that they are out of st marys georgia, hence the 912 area code. the truth is they are at 1490 W Internatl Speedway Blvd Daytona Beach, FL 32114-1442 in between outback and an airplane store.

diane crosby is the ring leader of the scam, followed by daryl and his girl twila, who uses the name sue wang as customer service. diane was also involved in a scam called copeland marketing which was shut down and was in the same plaza. to also prove that they are in daytona the rep jeremy that is mentioned in this other inquiry is jeremy allison, who unfortunatly lost his life in a recent street racing accident in holly hill florida which you can link him to daytona with.

what baffles me is the depth of this fraud that has not been figured out yet. i mean the real estate company who rents her this location KNOWS that what she is using as office space is not zoned as anything except storage. thats a violation of so many laws its funny. next, the woman who owns the airplane supply store next door is an attorney...how much is she being paid to keep her mouth shut?

next... banking... lol with this one, the FBI needs to go into the riverside bank on beville road and ask why no accounts were being reported with dianes name on them, (accounts over 10, 000 need to be reported) maybe because of the lunches that were being bought for the bank employees every friday, oh wait, maybe it was the louis vuitton purses being givin to workers as bribes to keep there mouths shut. and then came the warning that questions were being asked and along with that came a sudden change of accounts. if thats not FBI worthy then i dont know what is.

what about the mail person who delivers packages into there knowing that it isnt a real address? again though, why hasent daytona beach code enforcement officers investigated the many complaints that have been called in to their office about this multi million dollar a year scam taking place in an area that shouldnt have anyone in it???? are they being bribed too???

i advise every person who reads this to call the daytona beach code enforcement office to inquire about this, 386-671-8190. And if anyone still wants to do business with them after reading this they are F rated with the Better Business Bureau, and if you still do business with them after that, you deserve to be scamed.

 

[MtnEstate]

RCI Management SCAM

Just thought I would pass along a scam that almost happened to me.

I received a call the night before saying that the caller was from RCI and that they were calling points owners that had not used all their point allocations and wanted to convert them into cash

I talked to the lady for a couple of minutes about this new program and started to get interested

I had another call and asked her to call back the next day

The following day I received the call as promised.

This time it was from the woman's supervisor

He said he was from RCI management and that they had this new program that they wanted to offer RCI Points members that had not used all their point allocations and which were in danger of letting them expire

He said that I was on his list and that this was a courtesy call

I expressed interest.

He explained the program in detail
1) he would send me a contract in the mail to my address (Which he gave me)
2) I would sign the contract and give RCI management the right to convert the points into cash at the rate of $4,000 for each 10,000 points
3) They would then use my week / points to allow another RCI member to use my points to visit my unit or they would allow a non RCI member to try RCI by paying the fee which they would keep and pass along the rent to me.

This all sounded great

He then asked me how many unused points I had and I told him the amount

He sounded excited and said he had two renters that he could pass along to me and that there might be another one later in November who would want to rent .

He then asked if he could forward the contract to me via e-mail to speed up the process and get these two renters in my unit asap

I said ok and gave him my e-mail

Following that he asked if I had ever had a title search done on my property by RCI management To which I said no

The next thing he said was oh oh you need this otherwise he could not rent my unit.

He then offered to get a title search done in the next few days but I had to pay for it as RCI Management could not assume the cost

He said it would cost from $1,500 to $2,500 and if I had any objections

I said no take it out of the first rent check...

He quickly said that he could not do that but in the contract there was a section that listed the bank account where I could wire the funds

I told him that I would not wire the funds but would give him my AMEX and I would call AMEX to authorize the transaction

He said NO they do not take AMEX but he would take my checking account info over the phone .

This sounded fishy now as RCI always takes my AMEX !

I asked him to give me his name phone number and banking info and that I would contact RCI directly and verify his info and if it was correct I would
give RCI (who I contacted) my info since I would feel better if I called a number that I knew was RCI

At this point he said the transaction we talked about was rescinded and he abruptly hung up

I called RCI and asked if there was such a program and they passed me along to several supervisors until I reached some manager who definitively stated that there was no such program and that they were aware of this scam

I GOT LUCKY