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[2008] Sandcastle Shift to "Festiva" Points [merged]

Hi Frank

Would you have any objections if I were to participate in your blog? If you'd rather I didn't, I'll respect that, but owners have an unusual opportunity here to communicate directly with me and get straight answers. I also offer my email address for owners who wish to communicate with me privately.

I've never understood why owners seem to be happy to email and complain amongst themselves when I'm right here to answer their questions.

Cliff Hagberg

Cliff,

IMO it is because you pick and choose what you want to communicate about. You have labelled a huge area (HOA governance) as off-limits as it relates to legal issues.

If you really want to foster communication then have independent outside counsel provide a legal opinion on the behalf of the HOA on the issues that are in question. Put those issues to rest and then I think you will have a more effective and less adverse communication process.

Thanks
 
Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion. Perhaps I might if you were an owner. I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions. Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!! Surely, even you can understand that. Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions.

Other than legal issues, I'm wide open.
 
Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion. Perhaps I might if you were an owner. I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions. Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!! Surely, even you can understand that. Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions.

Other than legal issues, I'm wide open.
OK so here's one for you:

Why did you dissolve Hagberg Realty and Hagberg Home Improvement at the same time that you took out a $2.5 million mortgage on developers' rights to resorts valued at only $1.2 million by the previous developers?

Oh and BTW non-Sandcastle owners have as much right to post here as you do FYI.
 
Last edited:
I disolved Hagberg Realty because I had stopped selling real estate. No mystery there. I disolved the home improvement company because I never got started. I had some friends that wanted to do improvements so I formed a company to work with them and they then decided to do something else. Big deal and what does either of those have to do with anything?

Of course non owners can post here, I just don't have to listen to them. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't depending on how entertaining they're being.
 
I have a question Cliff

Hi Frank

Would you have any objections if I were to participate in your blog? If you'd rather I didn't, I'll respect that, but owners have an unusual opportunity here to communicate directly with me and get straight answers. I also offer my email address for owners who wish to communicate with me privately.

I've never understood why owners seem to be happy to email and complain amongst themselves when I'm right here to answer their questions.

Cliff Hagberg

I just left the Sandcastle today. While I was out on the balcony I heard Greg Hughes telling a person [I assume was a current owner but could have been someone (?Sandcastle guest) he was just trying to get into Festiva Points] that "The timeshare industry is completely converting to 'points ownership' and pretty soon there 'will be no more weeks exchange system'.If you don't convert to points, your week is going to be useless. "

If you have fired the Outfield Reps that were not telling the truth to consumers and retrained the other Outfield Reps, why is he still lying about this. I contacted RCI corporate and they said this is NOT TRUE, that they have NO INTENTION OF DROPPING WEEKS EXCHANGES. They are continuing to ADD BOTH POINT AND WEEKS RESORTS.

I went downstairs and looked to make sure who this was even though I knew the voice and sure enough it was Greg Hughes talking to a woman in the back of the office area right by the outdoor pool.

When is this misleading falsehood going to STOP? If you retrained REPS and these lies are continuing, why do you retain this employee?

ChrisH
 
I just left the Sandcastle today. While I was out on the balcony I heard Greg Hughes telling a person [I assume was a current owner but could have been someone (?Sandcastle guest) he was just trying to get into Festiva Points] that "The timeshare industry is completely converting to 'points ownership' and pretty soon there 'will be no more weeks exchange system'.If you don't convert to points, your week is going to be useless. "

If you have fired the Outfield Reps that were not telling the truth to consumers and retrained the other Outfield Reps, why is he still lying about this. I contacted RCI corporate and they said this is NOT TRUE, that they have NO INTENTION OF DROPPING WEEKS EXCHANGES. They are continuing to ADD BOTH POINT AND WEEKS RESORTS.

I went downstairs and looked to make sure who this was even though I knew the voice and sure enough it was Greg Hughes talking to a woman in the back of the office area right by the outdoor pool.

When is this misleading falsehood going to STOP? If you retrained REPS and these lies are continuing, why do you retain this employee?

ChrisH

Chris,

You may need to identify yourself in a PM to Cliff in order to have him recognize your complaint against Outfield. In another post he indicated that he did not recognize the owners that have made complaints again Outfield here on Tug.
 
Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion. Perhaps I might if you were an owner. I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions. Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!! Surely, even you can understand that. Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions.

Other than legal issues, I'm wide open.

Again, I will emphasize that this is a public forum. You will receive opinions from members other than those that you directly post to, or members of your target audience.

If you want a forum with only owners, then take it to a private forum.

And I sincerely doubt that you would respond any differently if I were an owner. For instance if I was a prospective owner doing due diligence on my purchase, would you be any more responsive to my queries?
 
I just left the Sandcastle today. While I was out on the balcony I heard Greg Hughes telling a person [I assume was a current owner but could have been someone (?Sandcastle guest) he was just trying to get into Festiva Points] that "The timeshare industry is completely converting to 'points ownership' and pretty soon there 'will be no more weeks exchange system'.If you don't convert to points, your week is going to be useless. "

If you have fired the Outfield Reps that were not telling the truth to consumers and retrained the other Outfield Reps, why is he still lying about this. I contacted RCI corporate and they said this is NOT TRUE, that they have NO INTENTION OF DROPPING WEEKS EXCHANGES. They are continuing to ADD BOTH POINT AND WEEKS RESORTS.

I went downstairs and looked to make sure who this was even though I knew the voice and sure enough it was Greg Hughes talking to a woman in the back of the office area right by the outdoor pool.

When is this misleading falsehood going to STOP? If you retrained REPS and these lies are continuing, why do you retain this employee?

ChrisH

It happened yesterday, it will happen again today, and it will happen again tomorrow. Hold Cliff's feet to the fire but all you will get is lip service.

I am sure that Cliff will tell you that he is shocked and that he will investigate. If Greg Hughes has a poor sales track record he might be terminated (something that would have happened anyway). If he is converting a lot of owners at $3000 a pop he will be told to talk indoors and watch what he says with a wink and a grin. You will be told that he has been reprimanded. Nothing will change.

Honestly if you owned a business and you were constantly receiving complaints about unethical and possibly ilegal sales tactics, would you continue to employ them? Cliff does and so does Festiva. That should tell you all you need to know about their business ethics. The reason they keep Outfield is because they don't care what they do as long as they sell points. If Outfield is sued both NEVS and Festiva will claim ignorance and no responsibility since Outfield is a third party sales force. This group has done this since way before they came to prey upon Southscape and Sandcastle and will continue to until an AG puts a big fine on them. When Festiva settled with the Missouri Attorney General for false and misleading sales tactics their defense was that it was a third party sales force, not Festiva itself. Let's see, they are using Outfield a third party sales force again, there are a lot of complaints about false and misleading sales tactics. Can we see a trend here?

This employee like all others was trained by the same guys that have been doing the same thing since Outfield started selling Festiva points. It works for them and they will not change unless it stops working or unless they get sued and lose a lot f money.

This is a complaint from what they were doing in 2007. Sound familiar?
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/356/RipOff0356189.htm

Steve Lamantia is one of the owners of Outfield. Here is a discussion about him and his tactics from Feb 2008. If he did it himself back then and employees are still doing it now, it is easy to surmise that the talk of stopping such actions by salesmen is just talk. This is their sales plan implemented from top to bottom. If Cliff fired Outfield then perhaps the sales tactics might change, but I doubt it.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...tiva_Outfield_Marketing-Branson_Missouri.html

If Greg Hughes ever does get fired it will probably be for lack of sales, not because he shows a lack of ethics. Sales is all they care about.
 
Last edited:
An odd coincidence

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVMSLLC
I disolved Hagberg Realty because I had stopped selling real estate. No mystery there. I disolved the home improvement company because I never got started. I had some friends that wanted to do improvements so I formed a company to work with them and they then decided to do something else. Big deal and what does either of those have to do with anything?
I find it odd that you stopped selling real estate yet have posted to these discussions that you have been selling timeshares. Is there a difference? Under what corporation name have you been selling timeshares?
 
Frankly, Sou13, that's none of your business. I've already told you things I didn't have to and have no relevance and that stops now. If you have a question for me, ask it on the Southcape Board where you're an actual owner. From now on, I'll ignore you here.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVMSLLC
I disolved Hagberg Realty because I had stopped selling real estate. No mystery there. I disolved the home improvement company because I never got started. I had some friends that wanted to do improvements so I formed a company to work with them and they then decided to do something else. Big deal and what does either of those have to do with anything?
I find it odd that you stopped selling real estate yet have posted to these discussions that you have been selling timeshares. Is there a difference? Under what corporation name have you been selling timeshares?

Looks like you caught him in a fib and now he is in a snit!

Timeshare IS real estate, of course.
 
Frankly, Sou13, that's none of your business. I've already told you things I didn't have to and have no relevance and that stops now. If you have a question for me, ask it on the Southcape Board where you're an actual owner. From now on, I'll ignore you here.

How is the background of a Trustee at a resort, not the business of an owner at said resort?

And your pledge is really meaningless. You ignore posts from both owners and non-owners unless it suits your purposes.
 
First of all, I did answer her questions about those two previous businesses. I didn't think more information was relevant and there is a difference between real estate and timeshare. Don't believe me since none of you non-owners do anyway, just look at the state licensing laws and decide for yourself. It's no more relevant than if people were to ask you about your business. Let's say you were in the insurance business for example. What relevance does that have?

By the way, Eric, I have and will continue to answer question from legitimate owners just as I did earlier today on the Southcape board. Perhaps if you weren't so busy trying to rally the owners at Pollard Brook, you'd have time to keep up with the posts here so you can inject your opinions on another board where you don't own.
 
By the way, Eric, I have and will continue to answer question from legitimate owners just as I did earlier today on the Southcape board.

Chris is an owner...gee, I must have missed this answer. Anyone want to clue me in as to what Cliff's answer was? Afterall, he says he will continue to answer questions from owners, so it must be my computer's fault that I am not seeing an answer to what looks like a legitimate question...

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=754366&postcount=80
 
Must have the same computer glitch

Chris is an owner...gee, I must have missed this answer. Anyone want to clue me in as to what Cliff's answer was? Afterall, he says he will continue to answer questions from owners, so it must be my computer's fault that I am not seeing an answer to what looks like a legitimate question...

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=754366&postcount=80

I don't see an answer either, maybe we have the SAME computer virus:D
 
I have and will continue to answer question from legitimate owners just as I did earlier today on the Southcape board.

Cliff: I am an owner - paid in full on all my dues and assessments. I asked these questions below in reference to your statements (also below) on the other Sandcastle thread on this board and you ignored them. You made slight reference to them by saying "don't ask me" when referencing the tipping point of your ownership value when no one else asked that but you never answered my questions directly. I guess I wasn't annoying or combative enough. I'd better brush up on my boxing skills.

If we can't ask you questions such as those below, what questions ARE you willing to answer?

So now I have new questions. 1) If you are no longer selling real estate - which I assume means you are no longer part of IVS Realty, how do you plan to sell unsold Sandcastle weeks? Festiva is taking deeded weeks from owners for a hefty price it would seem and not offering anything but a promise in return for real property. As a former realtor you know that areal property has certain additional duty-of-care responsibilities associated with it that those owners just signed off on. Festive/Outfield do not appear to be offering weeks for sale. So how will you get rid of the weeks you are now left with so that you can recoup your investment in Sandcastle and get out from under the burden of having to deal with all of us? 2) Do you also loose all you "declarent rights" when you have sold the majority of your weeks (you know - that mysterious tipping point that shall not be spoken of) at that time and, if not, what other rights remain under your control?

Heck - if we knew what that tipping point was, some of us might be willing to help you out a bit :rofl:

Regards,
Diane

Your Quote: 3. Along with the purchase of the inventory went a bundle of rights referred to as Declarant rights. This gives the developer control of the property until sold out. For twenty years, the former developer never tried to sell out and thus retained control of the resort. NEVS essentially purchased the former developer's position and is in the process of selling the inventory so that eventually, control will be in the hands of the owners where it should have been 20 years ago. End Quote

My Question: I'm curious about the above statement. We purchased weeks directly from Jewel at the resort after staying there on an exchange a few years ago. Available inventory was clearly posted on the bulletin board with prices. Earlier we had been working with your office at IVS Realty and had gotten close to making an offer on 2 weeks but got a better deal from Jewel. The developer even accepted an offer below the asking price (which Jewel said was not likely to happen). When we contacted your office to say we were going with the resort detal the person in your office (whose name escapes me now) said it wasn't a bad deal and we should probably take it. We appreciated his honesty. By the way - he was a very nice man and very pleasant to work with - I wish I could remember his name.

My point is, this doesn't sound like Sandcastle developer or office agent was trying to avoid selling weeks. The developer may have had a tipping point beyond which they wouldn't sell so as to retain control. So it begs the question - what's your tipping point. What's the "magic number" beyond which you will no longer retain control - if that's not too personal a question? How many weeks do you need to sell to give a deeded owner a real seat on the board with a real vote? Since it's not too likely that you'll sell too many of those out-of-season weeks any time soon, what, if anything, do the by laws say about adding additional seats to the board in an advisory capacity?

End Quote
 
I apologize for seeming to ignore your previous questions. Sometimes it gets so busy on here dealing with non owners, I can't remember who I answered and who I didn't. Because of that, I'm just not going to respond to non owners anymore.

I no longer sell real estate under the name Hagberg Realty. I do still own IVS Realty. IVS is still very active as the oldest and largest timeshare resale company in New England. Because of the large number of weeks to be sold at Sancastle, the resort needs a more active program than my company can provide. Festiva is not "taking" weeks. Should an owner decide to become a member of Festiva, they deed their week to Festiva and become a member of Festiva's Adventure Club. It is completely optional.

Outfield is absolutely offering weeks for sale. I don't know where this rumor got started but it's simply not true. Anyone wishing to buy a week at the Sandcastle, let me know and we'll be delighted to sell you one. Two weeks were just sold at the resort today! When the weeks are sold, NEVS won't own anything at the resort any longer. NEVS did not buy the weeks to hang on to them like the former trustees, I can promise you that.

I can't tell you when the "tipping point" comes for several reasons. There are two different associations at Sandcastle with two separate set of condo docs and all the documents were written prior to the enactment of MGL Chapter 183B. All I can tell you is that four different law firms agreed that control does not yet pass from the developer. An attorney who works for the associations is currently reviewing all of the documents in order to make necessary amendments, etc. Having met with him just last week, I can tell you that he's not certain of where that point is either, at least at the moment. It is being reviewed.

By the way, I can promise you that you're annoying enough already! :)

For those of you who didn't get that, it's a joke . . . I'll admit to a strange sense of humor.

I first began working for the former developers and trustees in 1992 as IVS Realty. I was hired to sell the inventory that they owned. I was successful enough that I was told not to sell their inventory any longer as they weren't ready to give up control. This was in 1992!!

Many of the weeks Jewel sold were not developer weeks but owner resales and weeks taken back in the name of the association which was controlled by the developer. In 1992, the developer had about 400 weeks. Last fall I purchase about 360 of them that were left. Not a great track record in selling their interests. If the economy doesn't blow up completely, NEVS expects to sell that inventory in the next 2 - 3 years.

FYI, the only man working for IVS Realty the past few years has been me. So if you had a good experience with a man at IVS, I thank you!

As far as owners on the board, no elections are called for at this time. Instead, I'm creating an owner advisory board that will be made up of individual owners. This board will review all information before it is presented to the trustees and will have direct input for recommendations to the trustees. It will also mean that, when we are ready for elections, we'll have a group of committed, qualified owners to stand for election. Any owners interested in serving on this board, please let me know as appointments will be made next month.

I'm afraid I can't answer the rest of your questions until the legal process has been completed. The best I can do at this time is to say that I do intend to keep owners informed through newsletters and the new website. You gave the former trustees over twenty years with no complaints and look where we ended up. Can you at least give me two??

Cliff

P. S. If everyone on here buys a week, you'll go a long way towards helping NEVS in their mission to sell the inventory!!
 
Oh, excuse me yet again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVMSLLC
Sorry Eric, but I don't recall asking for your opinion. Perhaps I might if you were an owner. I've said from the beginning that I'm not a lawyer and that I can't offer legal opinions. Even if I could, I wouldn't post them on a public bulletin board!! Surely, even you can understand that. Perhaps you can't though since I've seen you offer your "legal" opinion here on many occasions.

Other than legal issues, I'm wide open

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sou13
I find it odd that you stopped selling real estate yet have posted to these discussions that you have been selling timeshares. Is there a difference? Under what corporation name have you been selling timeshares?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVMSLLC
Frankly, Sou13, that's none of your business. I've already told you things I didn't have to and have no relevance and that stops now. If you have a question for me, ask it on the Southcape Board where you're an actual owner. From now on, I'll ignore you here.
Well, excuse me yet again for asking questions on the wrong discussion. You did, however, challenge Eric who is a non-owner and I took you up on the challenge. I have a vested interest in Sandcastle since I suspect that the Special Assessment being collected from Southcape owners is going toward upgrades at Sandcastle. That's why I want to go over the books before putting out the rest of the $400 Special Assessment you levied on Southcape owners.

I have been poring over the records in the Barnstable County Registry of Deeds and can find no record of Southcape weeks being sold. Are they being sold under a different name?
 
INTERNATIONAL VACATION SALES INC (Gtor)
DALY, JOHN S (&W) UNIT 8-1 TIME 4
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
09-16-1994 9365-317

Yup, you're right on top of things, Sou. That's a deed to Sea Mist Resort that my company sold in 1994 . . .
 
As I noted above

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sou13
INTERNATIONAL VACATION SALES INC (Gtor)
DALY, JOHN S (&W) UNIT 8-1 TIME 4
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
09-16-1994 9365-317

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVMSLLC
Yup, you're right on top of things, Sou. That's a deed to Sea Mist Resort that my company sold in 1994 . . .

As I noted above, that is the one and only deed entry for IVS Realty in Mashpee. So if you have been selling timeshares, under what corporation name are the deeds being recorded?
 
come on, Sou. IVS Realty is the agent and isn't listed on a deed!!!
 
The last matching name is displayed

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
BARTH (AS ID TR BY AY) FALMOUTH RD
Assignment Mashpee
09-04-2008 23138-104

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
BARTH (AS ID AS TR &O) SEE INSTRUMENT
Deed Mashpee
09-04-2008 23138-109

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtor)
COLEBROOK FINANCIAL CO SEE INSTRUMENT
Mortgage Mashpee
09-04-2008 23138-185

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
FOLEY, CARLA F UNIT 14 TIME 44
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-197

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
PAUL, PAMELA UNIT 14 TIME 9
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-199

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
SHERIDAN, PHILLIP T UNIT 22 TIME 12 13
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-201

NEW ENGLAND VACATION SERVICES LLC (Gtee)
KELL, MICHAEL J (&O) UNIT 25 TIME 38
Time Sharing Deed Mashpee
04-21-2009 23628-204
The last matching name is displayed
 
I didn't think more information was relevant and there is a difference between real estate and timeshare. Don't believe me since none of you non-owners do anyway.

From Cliff's own website...IVS Realty

Q. What do closing costs cover and what are they?
A. Just as in every real estate transaction, there are closing costs in selling a timeshare as well. These costs pay for everything from creating the documents, doing the title work, recording the deed, etc. Our closings costs are among the lowest in the industry at $395. If we use an outside title company, closing costs can be as high as $495. Closing costs are typically paid by the buyer.

http://www.ivsrealty.com/Faqs.htm

Now who do we believe...Cliff #1 who says timeshare is not real estate or Cliff #2 who is clearly calling a timeshare sale a "real estate transaction?" Is Cliff #2 calling Cliff #1 a liar or it is the other way around?

Just a thought....meybee Outfield Marketing is pumping points because that's all they can pump....if a timeshare sale is a real estate transaction as Cliff #2's website claims, these Outfield Point pumpers that they are hiring and firing by the day are too costly to train in the nuanced art of real estate sales. Look thru all the posts as pertains to Outfield's attemps at "sales"....points, points, and more points...not a mention of inventory...they simply were not trained to sell inventory.
 
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