[2008] Exchangers charged fees that owners are NOT charged/MERGED

[gmarine]

None of the resorts I own charge extra fees. To owners or exchangers. All fees involved with a timeshare exchange should be covered by the MF the owner pays. Period.

I'm not talking about airline tickets or hotel rooms here. We are discussing the trading of time between an owner in one resort with the owner of another resort. Simple concept. And the HOA are making it less simple in order to avoid raising costs to the owners and making their resort less desirable to own. The exchange companies are totally avoiding the issue since it really is not their problem. They can continue to give ratings that are based on handshakes in the back-room with developers and ignore the cards sent in by exchangers.

I agree that there should be no additional fees for exchangers. But if there are and you dont like it, as I've said before, the solution is very simple. Dont visit that resort.

I make my decision based on whether I feel the exchange is worth any extra fee that a resort has imposed. For example, while I dont like paying $95 to DVC,I pay it because an exchange to DVC is worth far more to me than an exchange to any other Orlando resort. Others may not feel the same and they are free to not take an exchange to a DVC resort.

On the flip side I would never exchange into The Reef in Grand Cayman because of the energy surcharge imposed to exchangers. Others feel different and love to get an exchange there. It a personal opinion.

 

[timeos2]

Thank II for this one

This is when you could fill out the review form that II asks for (and presumably RCI does too) and give them a low rating. If enough people do that, they'll soon see their "golden pinapple" turn into a gray one, or their gray one turn into a whole lot of nothing.

Besides I thought the developers charged 20X the resale price so that they could keep MF down low

Thanks to II and DVC the idea of "exchange penalty fees" came into vogue. RCI refused to let DVC impose an unfair fee and, at least in part due to that member friendly move, had II steal that account by making the deal to allow DVC to charge a fee strictly prohibited in their standard resort affiliation agreement. Of course II apparently changed it for DVC and in their usual disdain for paying members.

By all means give bad scores across the board to any resort that pulls that unfair trick. Enough rating cards of all "1'S" will make them consider a change to a fair week for week exchange as owners not 3rd rate intruders.

 

[bnoble]

RCI refused to let DVC impose an unfair fee

Again, perhaps not so simple. Again, see Manhattan Club as to why.

 

[timeos2]

Again, perhaps not so simple. Again, see Manhattan Club as to why.

While 10 years later RCI does appear to have also broken the deal it was II & DVC that started it. And the cost at DVC is far higher than MC (who's reputation & ranking are taking a big hit in part due to the unfair fees).

 

[bnoble]

And the cost at DVC is far higher than MC

No, it's not. MC 1BRs are $25 per night. Even the studios are more: $15 per night is $105 per week, more than DVC's $95.

who's reputation & ranking are taking a big hit in part due to the unfair fees

Surprising then that there are so many people who want to exchange in on the sightings boards here and TS4M, and so few with weeks that can actually pull it.

Again, not so simple.

 

[ctyatty]

time to shake up a few for these junk fees

DVC has the fees covered in the original docs with the owners - don't know about MC. Most of the go along get along crowd are missing the point: it is the owner who has the claim against the HOA and/or management company - these fees lessen the value of the owner's property. Exchange firms can make any deal they want with their customers - HOA are bound by the by-laws - by charging junk fees they make what you own worth less for exchanging. The fee structure in the by-laws where I own are very specific about what and how fees are set. There is no provision for fabricating fees for whatever suits their fancy. In my state the attorney general has been pretty good about going after timeshare fraud having taken one resort to court, for those without good consumer protection agencies check out the local trial lawyers association for a referral to a class action type firm. Again it is Owner vs Resort - no need to sue the exchange companies. Resort's HOA board of directors have a fiduciary duty which means in many respects they will be having to prove what they do is legal.

 

[e.bram]

I own a condo in NJ which I had rented out. The BOD decided to rent the parking spaces directly to the tenants, instead of adding it to the MF billedto the owner. The tenant was billed at a higher rate than the owner occupied parking spaces. On owner(a top notch lawyer) sued and it went all the way to the NJ Supreme Court and the HOA was overuled. I got all money back(and a chuckle), even though the tenant(no longer renting) paid the difference. The court ruled that their couldn't be two classes of owners, those thst lived their and those that didn't and that In had I right to rent and rerent the space even thiough I didn't directly own it.

 

[bnoble]

Most of the go along get along crowd are missing the point: it is the owner who has the claim against the HOA and/or management company

No, I agree with you---these units are worth less in exchange, because they are less attractive to inbounds. But, so what? Disney isn't a particularly hard exchange, but it is the toughest thing to get in Orlando through II. Manhattan Club is practically the holy grail in RCI. It's not as though these don't trade well already.

What's more, they are both already so expensive to own that most owners at these resorts, exchanging out, are "losing"---they'd be better off renting out their time, and using the proceeds to rent what they exchanged for, and they'd have cash left over. Removing these fees from exchangers and putting them back on the owners where they belong only makes exchange less attractive financially.

So, if an owner already has good trade power, and the fees make exchange more attractive not less, how will you find one willing to be the plaintiff?

 

[Carolinian]

This really is a deplorable practice. When I encounter it, I respond by giving the resort a 1 on the resort report card to RCI in the Resort Hospitality and Check-In/out categories. Once they see these malpractices impacting their VEP ratings, they may reconsider. I always put the reason in the comments section as well.

 

[e.bram]

Yeah, but if the fees decrease the MFs, then one could argue the units are worth more.

 

[ctyatty]

great story

The court ruled that there couldn't be two classes of owners, those that lived there and those that didn't had the right to rent and rerent the space even thiough I didn't directly own it.

thanks for sharing a happy story where the individual triumphed over misuse of power type leadership - the type who will try anthing so long as they can make up some baloney story and buffalo people into not challenging it.

A HOA should first and foremost stand for mutuality not junk fees.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Sandy, owners are not exempt when the exchange into a Disney resort; they still have to pay the fee we all pay.

 

[JimJ]

We exchanged into Palm Beach Shores a few years ago. They charged exchangers a paking fee. We signed up for the sales tour and made it very clear from minute #1 that the only reason we were there was to recoup our parking fee and we would in no way consider a purchase at a resort that treated exchangers differently than owners. It was a short tour!

 

[Transit]

DVC also has a $10 a day internet fee for non-members (internet 70)+(Disney 95) + (II exchange 139) = $304 plus you week before you walk in the door. Anything else $$$ ? Anyway you look at it thats hard to justify. .Thats a powerfull demand timeshare!

 

[Sandy VDH]

Sandy, owners are not exempt when the exchange into a Disney resort; they still have to pay the fee we all pay.

True

But if they went on the own week or rented out their week directly to someone else they would not be required to pay the fee. If they exchange they are NOW treated as exchangers.

Some places do see this differently, I agree. If you are a member/owner you get those perks regardless of how you got the unit there, direct usage or exchange.

 

[ctyatty]

is there more than a little irony in junk fees?

The developer sales staffs big push always used to be the ability to trade into fabulous resorts across the world. Now after purchasing a white or blue week that would become next to worthless and such a liability that people pay to get rid of them, some resorts add on junk fees to exchangers. The original scheme plays out with equal maintenance fees being charged those with prime weeks as well as the no value weeks, with many of the prime weeks actually used by those lucky few. If by af stroke of good fortune the person with the next to worthless week gets an exchange - now come the junk fees. Wow what a deal!

 

[Sandy VDH]

My brother just returned from Massenutten. They stayed at Summit.

Do owners have to pay the same fees that exchanges pay? He said putt putt golf was $7 per person. Fees for everything.

We are used to Wyndham where it is free or a nominal charge, like a $1 per person.

 

[Transit]

Club Land'or
/Paradise Island.RCI #0021 There is a US$25 per person per day resort levy for guests 12 years of age and older.This was an additional charge to a "getaway"

 

[dioxide45]

I don't have a problem with per use fees charged to exchangers vs owners. Put Put or tennis is an example. I can see offering this to owners for free but non owners get charged. Many if not most Marriotts offer owners a discount at the Marketplace, this I think is fine. These are optional services and if you don't want to pay then don't play.

I don't have an issue if mandatory fees are disclosed up front. All this does is deminish the trade value of the resort. The only exception may be DVC. I wouldn't trade in to a resort that charged me a daily or any other mandatory fee.

For Marriott's and the tidy service. Owners don't even get this for free. Both exchangers and owners have to pay if they want a mid week or even daily cleaning. I am okay with that.