[2/10/17 UPDATE] VSE charging for 3rd party reservation changes! [+Contact Info. for complaints]

[okwiater]

This is a VSN fee as a claim by them to charge for the current cost of reservation charges (look at current VSN docs and not HOA docs - both are part of CCRs) as this is part of VSN management of VSE reservations.

DnR, the Vistana Signature Network (VSN) is just an exchange program that requires membership to participate. If you aren't a member of VSN, then VSN rules can't apply. That said, Vistana Signature Experiences (VSE) has been delegated certain responsibilities as the Management Company to run the resorts and process reservations, but it's worth noting that as the Management Company, they are explicitly bound to act in a fiduciary capacity according to at least one example of the Management Agreement between Vistana and the HOA. Implementing a fee that in no way represents the actual cost of processing a guest name change is a blatant violation of the standard of care to which they are legally bound.

Vistana as a profit-seeking enterprise is welcome to implement any fees they would like when it comes to Vistana Signature Network reservations; however, they are not entitled to do so when it comes to core usage of one's deeded property.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but given the language contained in some of the HOA/CCR docs, this fee doesn't appear to be legal at all of the resorts.

 

[osman]

*I just called and asked (and this may not be correct) but was told this only applies to reservations made 1/26 or later. In other words, if you have a reservation made before 1/26, and change the name after 1/26, the fee won't apply.

I just transferred a reservation made before 1/26, and I was charged a fee.

 

[Helios]

It might be a technicality here folks. This fee is imposed by VSE, and not the owners association. The governing docs, which stipulate no fee or permitted usage refer to the owners association, and not VSE. Although a home resort reservation, VSE is now simply charging a fee for it.

I hope this is not the case legally, but it could be how they plan to get away with it.

Markus

I am not lawyer, but I really think this is their way out.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not lawyer, but I really think this is their way out.

I doubt it would work. Vistana is working on behalf of the HOA. Since we can't work directly with the HOA and have to go through Vistana, I think they are still in violation. It will be interesting to see the responses to some of the emails to Suzanne on Monday, if she replies.

 

[Helios]

I doubt it would work. Vistana is working on behalf of the HOA. Since we can't work directly with the HOA and have to go through Vistana, I think they are still in violation. It will be interesting to see the responses to some of the emails to Suzanne on Monday, if she replies.

I thought it was established the replies from last week were copy pasted responses that actually had incorrect names (most likely sent by her assistant). So, it is likely the Monday responses will be the same as last week.

 

[DeniseM]

If the boiler plate responses continue next week, I recommend that we complain through the Dashboard, and/or Facebook, and Linked.

 

[WBP]

Happy New Year! We look forward to serving your vacation ownership needs in 2017.

Please be advised that effective January 26, 2017, a $59 fee will be applied any time an Owner transfers their Vacation Ownership Interest reservation to a third-party guest. This is a result of the volume of requests we receive for these transactions and the resources required to provide this service.

A third-party guest is either someone not listed on the ownership contract or checking in prior to an Owner’s arrival.

As a valued Vistana Signature Network™ Elite Member, your fee is reduced from the standard $59:

• 5-Star Elite $39
• 4-Star Elite $49
• 3-Star Elite $49

Arrangements for third-party guests must be made by calling Elite Special Services directly at 888-786-3548. Any of our Vacation Planning Counselors will be happy to assist you. We ask that you please refrain from calling the resort directly to add a guest name, as the front office staff will be unable to provide this service for you.

We are working to enhance vistana.com in 2017 to enable Owners to facilitate third-party guest transactions online.

We hope you get to enjoy great vacations this year. We look forward to assisting you.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Clark
Vice President, Owner Services
Vistana Signature Experiences
Terms & Conditions
Third-party guest is defined as any guest that is not an Owner of record on the Vacation Ownership Interest account attributed to the reservation, or any guest checking in prior to an Owner arrival. Arrangements for third-party guest arrivals must be made by calling Owner Services directly. No online, email, or resort requests will be accepted at this time. Owners and third-party guests are responsible for any personal expenses incurred while occupying a Unit, as well as for any damage, theft, or loss incurred. For security purposes, keys will only be given to the name on the reservation and a valid government or state-issued photo ID is required at check-in.

----------------------------

ADDED by DeniseM -

If you would like to submit a complaint, here is the Contact info. for:

Suzanne Clark, Vice President Owner Services at Vistana Signature Experiences:

Linked: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzanne-clark-7786852/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/suzanne.clark.357

Vistana Email: suzanne.clark@vistana.com

Remember, at many sold-out resorts, the Developer/Management Company works for the timeshare owners, at the pleasure of the timeshare owner HOA Board. This is a perfect example of why terms need to be negotiated into the Management Agreement between the HOA Board and the Management Company, specifically addressing what FEES/TERMS a Management Company can impose, and what fees/terms first require HOA Board Approval. In this case, the inmates are running the asylum. These developers need an Attitude Adjustment from consumers/timeshare owners, as in my opinion, they (the developers) are out of control, and they can be controlled by the Management Agreement between the HOA Board and Management Company. This issue may take on a different life, in the case of resorts or points systems that do not have a Home Resort, Home Resort Board, or the Developer has not released control of the resort to the timeshare owners and board.

But, Visanta owners have now seen Vistana's colors. What to do? I'd encourage everyone, to attend a Vistana sales presentation, and then "SAY NO." Take as much of the salespersons time as you can fathom.That will negatively impact the Developer's metrics, cost them money, and make for a very unhappy sales and marketing staff. If the salespeople can't sell their product, that goes right to the purse strings of the timeshare developer.

We consumers need to take over the driver's seat. I am really getting tired of the shenanigans of certain developers/management companies, and I truly can't stand these trade associations that allege to represent the best interests of the consumer.

By the way, for those of you who receive an invitation from your timeshare to make a voluntary contribution to ARDA, The American Resort Developers Association, "SAY NO," and remember that a contribution to ARDA is supporting the anti-consumer mission of timeshare developers. We live in a crazy world, when a timeshare trade association, and developers, have the audacity to ask timeshare owners for "a contribution" to support the trade association of developers, the developers venom, and developers anti-consumer agenda.

The time is NOW for timeshare owners to regain control of the asylum from the inmates.

 

[DavidnRobin]

DnR, the Vistana Signature Network (VSN) is just an exchange program that requires membership to participate. If you aren't a member of VSN, then VSN rules can't apply. That said, Vistana Signature Experiences (VSE) has been delegated certain responsibilities as the Management Company to run the resorts and process reservations, but it's worth noting that as the Management Company, they are explicitly bound to act in a fiduciary capacity according to at least one example of the Management Agreement between Vistana and the HOA. Implementing a fee that in no way represents the actual cost of processing a guest name change is a blatant violation of the standard of care to which they are legally bound.

Vistana as a profit-seeking enterprise is welcome to implement any fees they would like when it comes to Vistana Signature Network reservations; however, they are not entitled to do so when it comes to core usage of one's deeded property.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but given the language contained in some of the HOA/CCR docs, this fee doesn't appear to be legal at all of the resorts.

I understand - however VSN is the entity that all VSE resorts use to control reservations regardless if Mandatory or Voluntary. Good luck - I suspect that all aspects of this fee have been discussed internally at ILG/VSE/VSN. Perhaps I am incorrect (I hope so), but having worked for a large corporation - I will be surprised if they have not considered the Risk-Benefit of this decision. I am not defending them.

 

[dioxide45]

Perhaps an owner at one of the resorts with verbiage preventing the fees needs to just get an attorney involved to send Vistana a cease and desist letter?

 

[tschwa2]

GREAT find by undrpar64!

Per above post - it appears that the guest confirmation fee on home resort reservations violates the published rules:

Which seems like it would apply for home reservations and for certain guests but part of the documentations makes it less than ideal for rental guests and even some family and friends:

You will be responsible for all personal charges and/or damages to the Unit you have occupied resulting from use by your guests

Vistana could simply require that the owner on record supply their CC information for the security hold and for in room charges and damages unless you pay the fee to switch the reservation into a paid guest certificate. They could also make it clear to the guests who check in on a non paid guest cert that all room charges and damages would be the responsibility of the owner and the guest need not worry about those charges.

 

[Helios]

I will be surprised if they have not considered the Risk-Benefit of this decision. I am not defending them.

I agree, they should know they have the advantage and the risk/benefit is worth it. Otherwise why risk the bad publicity.

 

[Helios]

Vistana could simply require that the owner on record supply their CC information for the security hold and for in room charges and damages unless you pay the fee to switch the reservation into a paid guest certificate. They could also make it clear to the guests who check in on a non paid guest cert that all room charges and damages would be the responsibility of the owner and the guest need not worry about those charges.

This is an interesting interpretation. If this is how it will approached by VSE the guest cert is worth it.

 

[djyamyam]

I called owner services this morning since I needed to add a guest to one of my home resort reservations (I am not a member of the Network). When I referred to the governing documents that has contrary information to the fee, I was passed to resolution services and now has been referred to a supervisor for further investigation. I am supposed to get a phone call back so we'll see what happens. So far, the reservation has not yet been transferred to the 3rd party that I wanted to add

 

[Robert D]

In addition to sending emails and letters to Suzanne Clark complaining about this fee, I think we should also send similar emails and letters to her boss, the CEO of Vistana. Does anyone have the contact info for the CEO?

 

[DeniseM]

If you haven't sent an email to Suzanne Clark, please do. Even if you don't use Guest Certificates, you need to stand up for the principle involved to protect your own ownership. If owners just accept anything that Vistana imposes on us, it will only encourage them to erode owners' rights further, in the future.

*If you have sent an email, please let us know by voting in the poll at the top of the thread.

Your email doesn't have to be long - in fact a strong, short statement has more impact:

Suzanne Clark, Vice President Owner Services at Vistana Signature Experiences:

Linked: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzanne-clark-7786852/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/suzanne.clark.357

Vistana Email: suzanne.clark@vistana.com

Charging owners to add a guest to their reservation is a violation of the published Rules and Regulations on the Vistana website:

Guests. You may permit another person to occupy your Assigned Unit during your Use Period(s) without charge by the Association subject to the following restrictions: (i) the maximum allowable occupancy limits may not be exceeded, (ii) guests must observe the Check-In and Check-Out procedures If you intend for a person other than yourself to use your Use Period or to accompany you during your Regular Use reservation, you must provide the Managing Agent with the name and address of such person(s) in writing not less than three days prior to commencement of the occupancy period. You will be responsible for all personal charges and/or damages to the Unit you have occupied resulting from use by your guests. Persons under twenty-one (21) years of age must be accompanied by you or a guest twenty-one (21) years of age or older. Additional rules and regulations governing the recreational areas and the use of such areas by guests will be adopted by the Association and/or the Managing Agent, and may be amended from time to time.

 

[Robert D]

I just remembered that the Starwood/Vistana timeshare entity was bought by Interval. Good chance that this junk fee was instituted by Interval who probably knows nothing (or cares) about what the underlying documents say about owner's rights regarding their usage and guests.

 

[DeniseM]

True: ILG (II's parent company) owns Vistana, but they are only the management company.

The owners own the resorts and Vistana cannot unilaterally change the terms and conditions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Helios]

If you haven't sent an email to Suzanne Clark, please do. Even if you don't use Guest Certificates, you need to stand up for the principle involved to protect your own ownership. If owners just accept anything that Vistana imposes on us, it will only encourage them to erode owners' rights further, in the future.

Originally I was not going to email because of the negligible effect this fee will have on me. However, I changed my mind.

I will say I am surprised about the large number of upset posters and low number of people who have voted. Hopefully people emailed but did not vote.

 

[WBP]

If you haven't sent an email to Suzanne Clark, please do. Even if you don't use Guest Certificates, you need to stand up for the principle involved to protect your own ownership. If owners just accept anything that Vistana imposes on us, it will only encourage them to erode owners' rights further, in the future.

*If you have sent an email, please let us know by voting in the poll at the top of the thread.

Your email doesn't have to be long - in fact a strong, short statement has more impact:

Suzanne Clark, Vice President Owner Services at Vistana Signature Experiences:

Linked: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzanne-clark-7786852/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/suzanne.clark.357

Vistana Email: suzanne.clark@vistana.com

I don't know what is more disappointing, the "pull the wool over your head" approach of Vistana, or the apathy by TUG members who are Vistana owners, and who have not taken the action requested above, and recorded the action that they took, in the poll above. In my opinion those who dismiss taking action on this issue, are (1) leaving the door open for similar actions by Vistana in the future, (2) naive to think that "this issue does not affect them," even if they do not presently "assign the right of occupancy to someone else."

I get the impression that within the timeshare industry is a "Land of Misfit Toys," somewhere, a conception, breeding, and training ground - - similar to a "Puppy Mill,"" that turns out people who are willing to sell their soul, by aligning themselves with this unscrupulous industry, and its anti-consumer shenanigans. Here's a recent look at Wyndham's "high integrity" Core Values:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/...stle-blowers-20-million-vindication.html?_r=0

And if that's not enough to impress you with the "high integrity" nature of timeshare developers, take a look at this one:

https://www.azag.gov/sites/default/...files/Assurance_of_Discontinuance_Diamond.pdf

And finally, from the archives, this one:

https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/ag-...-barring-sales-manhattan-club-timeshare-hotel

In my opinion, the time must end of the days when timeshare owners do not flex their muscles, and allow the inmates to run the asylum.

 

[WBP]

Repeated:

Remember, at many sold-out resorts, the Developer/Management Company works for the timeshare owners, at the pleasure of the timeshare owner HOA Board. This is a perfect example of why terms need to be negotiated into the Management Agreement between the HOA Board and the Management Company, specifically addressing what FEES/TERMS a Management Company can impose, and what fees/terms first require HOA Board Approval. In this case, the inmates are running the asylum. These developers need an Attitude Adjustment from consumers/timeshare owners, as in my opinion, they (the developers) are out of control, and they can be controlled by the Management Agreement between the HOA Board and Management Company. This issue may take on a different life, in the case of resorts or points systems that do not have a Home Resort, Home Resort Board, or the Developer has not released control of the resort to the timeshare owners and board.

But, Visanta owners have now seen Vistana's colors. What to do? I'd encourage everyone, to attend a Vistana sales presentation, and then "SAY NO." Take as much of the salespersons time as you can fathom.That will negatively impact the Developer's metrics, cost them money, and make for a very unhappy sales and marketing staff. If the salespeople can't sell their product, that goes right to the purse strings of the timeshare developer.

We consumers need to take over the driver's seat. I am really getting tired of the shenanigans of certain developers/management companies, and I truly can't stand these trade associations that allege to represent the best interests of the consumer.

By the way, for those of you who receive an invitation from your timeshare to make a voluntary contribution to ARDA, The American Resort Developers Association, "SAY NO," and remember that a contribution to ARDA is supporting the anti-consumer mission of timeshare developers. We live in a crazy world, when a timeshare trade association, and developers, have the audacity to ask timeshare owners for "a contribution" to support the trade association of developers, the developers venom, and developers anti-consumer agenda.

The time is NOW for timeshare owners to regain control of the asylum from the inmates.

 

[DeniseM]

It appears that Vistana is not responding to the 2nd round of complaints that quote the "no confirmation fee" rule.

This may indicate that they were not aware of the rules, and have no prepared response.

I'm guessing that they are scrambling behind the scenes to see how they can over-turn the rules.

If this means getting board approval, they may get it, because of course, Starwood hand picked the board members by collecting the applications for the elections, and selecting who they will allow to run for the board. And then when they don't have a quorum for the election, they tell the sitting board who to appoint.

Yeah - it's all rigged...

 

[mjm1]

I just sent an email to Suzanne as well and will add my feedback to the poll. I was able to find the HOA documents for WKV and it did include the rule that a fee would not be charged for this activity. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

Mike

 

[vacationtime1]

My email went out to Suzanne over the weekend; no response yet.

We own some ILG shares; I emphasized that being both a shareholder of ILG and a member of SVN, I want to avoid the inevitable litigation over something clearly stated in the bylaws that will cost me litigation expenses on both sides of the issue.

 

[jhac007]

It appears that Vistana is not responding to the 2nd round of complaints that quote the "no confirmation fee" rule.

This may indicate that they were not aware of the rules, and have no prepared response.

I'm guessing that they are scrambling behind the scenes to see how they can over-turn the rules.

If this means getting board approval, they may get it, because of course, Starwood hand picked the board members by collecting the applications for the elections, and selecting who they will allow to run for the board. And then when they don't have a quorum for the election, they tell the sitting board who to appoint.

Yeah - it's all rigged...

Is this just known for Maui resorts or for all/most resorts that could be affected?

 

[DeniseM]

Is this just known for Maui resorts or for all/most resorts that could be affected?

It varies from resort to resort - but you can look it up on your own Vistana Acct:

Log into your Vistana Acct
Go to the dashboard
Find the Owner Association Tab
Click on Governing Documents
Select VOI to view
Click on Association Info.
Click on Governing Documents
Scroll down to GUESTS