Wyndham Club Access to Trave and Leisure switch

[truthseeker11]

Folks, I know that there have been a few threads on this but wanted to let you know something I encountered today and confirm if anyone else is seeing this as well. We are CWA members for several years and every time I go to checkin they force us to attend a session. We usually dodge it but this time My wife and I attended a 30 min info session where they spoke to us about why moving to T&L from CWA is beneficial and all the points I will get etc. They said the only way to do the switch is to join Wyndham Rewards and for that I have to give my SS# and open a credit card. I balked at the idea but they were adamant. Then the manager comes in and says that CWA program is going to no longer exist and we HAVE to convert to T&L and we have no choice? Is this true? I have never received anything about this via email or mail. We hd to leave but they said we could not and have to finish this meeting. We walked out but they pushed us into coming back tomorrow to finish this process.

My questions are:

- Anyone else seen this pushy predatory sales technique recently? First time from Wyndham I am seeing this.
- Is what they say true and do existing CWA members have to convert?
- Will we lose our exisitng CWA Silver, Gold etc status if we dont?
- What are the pros and cons of converting to T&L.

Thanks all and appreciate your thoughts and comments here.

 

[Rolltydr]

No. That is total BS! If I were you, I would not return tomorrow. They can’t force you to go to a meeting!

 

[dioxide45]

There is no such thing as switching from CWA to Travel + Leisure. Travel + Leisure is the company that owns Wyndham Destinations which in turn manages CWA. It is all a load of bullshit to try and sell you something you don't need. They want to sign you up for a credit card so they can be sneaky and put a big down payment on it and then try to make the total cost and payments of a new points purchase look cheaper. Later, after you get home, you start getting credit card bills in the mail.

Do nothing and nothing changes. Keep using your CWA points as they are. That hasn't and won't change.

 

[jp10558]

Wyndham always tries to force me into a sales presentation, I have to be kinda rude to refuse. Sometimes the offer is maybe worth it if you can ignore everything they say and then say no, can I get my gift please?

 

[geist1223]

Folks, I know that there have been a few threads on this but wanted to let you know something I encountered today and confirm if anyone else is seeing this as well. We are CWA members for several years and every time I go to checkin they force us to attend a session. We usually dodge it but this time My wife and I attended a 30 min info session where they spoke to us about why moving to T&L from CWA is beneficial and all the points I will get etc. They said the only way to do the switch is to join Wyndham Rewards and for that I have to give my SS# and open a credit card. I balked at the idea but they were adamant. Then the manager comes in and says that CWA program is going to no longer exist and we HAVE to convert to T&L and we have no choice? Is this true? I have never received anything about this via email or mail. We hd to leave but they said we could not and have to finish this meeting. We walked out but they pushed us into coming back tomorrow to finish this process.

My questions are:

- Anyone else seen this pushy predatory sales technique recently? First time from Wyndham I am seeing this.
- Is what they say true and do existing CWA members have to convert?
- Will we lose our exisitng CWA Silver, Gold etc status if we dont?
- What are the pros and cons of converting to T&L.

Thanks all and appreciate your thoughts and comments here.

And the winner of the LPM (Lies Per Minute) Trophy is.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Then the manager comes in and says that CWA program is going to no longer exist and we HAVE to convert to T&L and we have no choice? Is this true?

No, it's not true. ALL sales tactics employ FOMO basically. Fear Of Missing Out. It's always "if you don't do x, then you're going to miss out on y." Don't fall for it, none of it is true in any way.

For anyone reading: There is no such thing as T&L for the timeshare portion of the business. Wyndham Destinations is a wholly owned subsidiary of T&L, and that is the only division that has anything to do with timesharing. T&L is simply a company Wyndham acquired a few years ago, and then subsequently rebranded the top level company into Travel & Leisure (stock ticker TNL), after which Wyndham Destinations became a wholly owned subsidiary of T&L.

The brands that Wyndham Destinations consists of are listed here: https://www.wyndhamdestinations.com/us/en/our-brands

The sales and marketing team persistently is taught, and yes they are taught to do this, to use the T&L moniker as a point of FOMO to sell more timeshare product. It's patently false, don't fall for it.

My questions are:

- Anyone else seen this pushy predatory sales technique recently? First time from Wyndham I am seeing this.

Yes, constantly, in one form or another, per above, it's always a FOMO tactic. Seen it many times with my own eyes ever since Wyndham purchased the T&L company and rebranded the company under T&L. It's been happening for several years now really.

- Is what they say true and do existing CWA members have to convert?

There's NOTHING to convert to, it's ALL lies.

- Will we lose our exisitng CWA Silver, Gold etc status if we dont?

NO.

- What are the pros and cons of converting to T&L.

There is no converting to T&L. The half truth is that by buying more retail Club Wyndham timeshare points, you'll be eligible to enroll into the T&L "Travel Up" travel agency benefit, which is no better than any other similar website such as expedia.com, travelocity.com, etc. In other words you're wasting tens of thousands of dollars on a Travel Up website (located here for anyone who would like to know: https://travelup.wyndhamdestinations.com/v6?siteId=62421&type=login) that has little to no benefit really.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Wyndham always tries to force me into a sales presentation, I have to be kinda rude to refuse. Sometimes the offer is maybe worth it if you can ignore everything they say and then say no, can I get my gift please?

The sales organization counts on people not being comfortable with being impolite - it's a core part of their sales tactics really. Don't fall for it.

 

[Rolltydr]

There is no such thing as switching from CWA to Travel + Leisure. Travel + Leisure is the company that owns Wyndham Destinations which in turn manages CWA. It is all a load of bullshit to try and sell you something you don't need. They want to sign you up for a credit card so they can be sneaky and put a big down payment on it and then try to make the total cost and payments of a new points purchase look cheaper. Later, after you get home, you start getting credit card bills in the mail.

Do nothing and nothing changes. Keep using your CWA points as they are. That hasn't and won't change.

! One of, maybe the last, meeting I attended, I was asked for my driver’s and credit card. I provided it thinking she was just confirming my identity. However, she took them off the table, got up and started walking to the door. I politely asked for them back. She continued walking and I not so politely demanded she give them back. That got her attention, as well as, the attention of other potential targets in the room. She finally stopped, gave them back to me and, I swear she said this, “You shouldn’t come to these meetings”. That was five years ago. Shortly thereafter, I was placed on the Do Not Sell list and I’ve had easy checkins and undisturbed vacations ever since.

 

[truthseeker11]

No. That is total BS! If I were you, I would not return tomorrow. They can’t force you to go to a meeting!

I agree Rolltydr! The sales manager was very aggressive and literally would not let us leave until he wrote something on paper and made me sign it, saying that I would return. I have NEVER encountered this at Wyndham! Very disappointing that they are resorting to theses techniques now. Is there a place we can complain about this? This should be unacceptable in my opinion. We are not going tomorrow anyways but I wanted to let folks know that this is what happened. This was at Wyndham Ocean Front in Myrtle Beach!

 

[TUGBrian]

salesmans nametag should read Liar.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Did he have your drivers licenses or something? Otherwise, literally just stand up and walk out. He can’t imprison you. Also, in the future, you can always just say “no” to attending the presentation. They cannot force you. If a few polite “no’s” do not work just walk away. If you need your parking pass or wristband or something just state “there is nothing that you can do or say that will cause me to come to a presentation. Give me my _____ or I will make a scene. It’s not going to come to that if you just keep saying no though.

The sales manager was very aggressive and literally would not let us leav

I agree Rolltydr! The sales manager was very aggressive and literally would not let us lea

 

[dioxide45]

Did he have your drivers licenses or something? Otherwise, literally just stand up and walk out. He can’t imprison you. Also, in the future, you can always just say “no” to attending the presentation. They cannot force you. If a few polite “no’s” do not work just walk away. If you need your parking pass or wristband or something just state “there is nothing that you can do or say that will cause me to come to a presentation. Give me my _____ or I will make a scene. It’s not going to come to that if you just keep saying no though.

It's best to never give a reason why you can't attend. They will just counter with some reason why you can somehow make it work. Just the one word answer you state is enough, "no", and they can't counter with anything. Too many people try to give them reasons they can't attend and it makes for a much more frustrating experience.

 

[Rolltydr]

Is there a place we can complain about this?

Apparently not a place that would do any good as this has been going on for years, people have been complaining for years and it hasn’t stopped. As stated above, I’m on the Do Not Sell list but I believe I read in another thread not long ago that they are no longer adding names to that list. I don’t remember where I wrote requesting to be put on it but maybe someone else will respond with that information.

It's best to never give a reason why you can't attend. They will just counter with some reason why you can somehow make it work. Just the one word answer you state is enough, "no", and they can't counter with anything. Too many people try to give them reasons they can't attend and it makes for a much more frustrating experience.

This is the best advice I can give you. It is the only thing I know that works.

 

[jp10558]

Did he have your drivers licenses or something? Otherwise, literally just stand up and walk out. He can’t imprison you. Also, in the future, you can always just say “no” to attending the presentation. They cannot force you. If a few polite “no’s” do not work just walk away. If you need your parking pass or wristband or something just state “there is nothing that you can do or say that will cause me to come to a presentation. Give me my _____ or I will make a scene. It’s not going to come to that if you just keep saying no though.

My first experience in Destin Bay Club II check in (at Mystic Sun) I needed the wristbands (so we had key cards, I don't think check in even gave us 1 card) and they were not giving them to us. They kept saying "I've never had anyone not go to the first time owners training" and I finally said "well it's a new experience for you today." After explaining that I didn't need it, and wasn't going to it and with a little more snark from me I got them to give up.

 

[FL Guy]

At an "owner update" last week at Bonnet Creek, a supposedly "non-salesperson manager, looking out for me and how I can get the most value from my ownership" essentially told me the CWA contracts are only sold by Wyndham for access to predominately locations that nobody wants to go to, purely as a profit generator for the company, and don't have "nearly the value" that a deeded contract has. He also essentially told me if I kept my CWA contracts (I have an 84,000 and a 64,000 points contract) that unless I can successfully give them away to someone else that I will never be able to get rid of them and, further, that my heirs will be required to inherit them and never be able to get rid of them either. He kept showing me in the CWA Trust document where it references "perpetuity" and showing me the dictionary definition of "perpetuity" and asked if I wanted to saddle my heirs with a "lifetime liability" that they would never be able to get rid of. (I guess I'm getting to the age that they're going to try to sell me based on that I'm going to die sooner-or-later and burden my heirs with the timeshares, because this is the 2nd "owner update" that the salesperson has started down this path.) He did a "future analysis" of what the maintenance fees would cost for my contracts over 10 years and came up with around $227,000. Then he launched into some BS that if I would pay $60,000 now that I could switch my CWA contracts to deeded contracts and that would offset the $227,000 future maintenance costs he'd calculated. I asked if he meant I was pre-paying the $227,000 maintenance fees and there wouldn't be any maintenance fees charged on the converted contracts (I knew that wasn't the case). He said there would still be maintenance fees, but through upgrades I would get, Wyndham Rewards credits to offset my other travel costs. and money earned from renting out my "extra points" through whatever their rental program is called, that I would be more than offsetting my maintenance fees. (I've heard that line of BS before multiple times too.) By this point I was about 90 minutes into what was supposed to be 45 minutes, so I told him I wasn't interested, and it was time for me to leave. I didn't stick around to see what "too-good-to-refuse" deal his supervisor/manager might have come up with. He never did explain what I would be getting for paying them $60,000, besides converting the CWA contracts to a deeded contract.

Oh, and he also tried telling me the lie about making a reservation for 1 more day than you really want, them modifying it within the 60-day window to get a VIP discount, which has already been debunked in another TUG thread previously. After I told him that I had specifically tried doing that and it doesn't work, he moved on. I also confronted him with the lie that many sales reps have told about the segregated pools of ownership and said that if I got rid of my CWA contracts that I wouldn't be able to see or book any of the inventory owned by CWA. He said that wasn't true and that I would be able to see and book them.

 

[Armada]

I always refuse these offers. If they are refusing a parking pass, etc, I will tell them no three times. After that I start with 'how loudly do you want me to say no?'. Having taken voice lessons and done theater, I can truly be very loud. When I start ramping up the volume of my 'no's', it usually only takes about 30 seconds to get what I need. I hate being rude, but sometimes that is the only way.

 

[Armada]

I have on occasion thought about doing a bit of a speech when they keep saying no.

Imagine this while checking in a resort: a large man in a loud Shakespearean actor's voice saying: "Gather close dear friends and hear my tale of woe. I stand here before you in search of a stress free and happy time at (resort name). Yet, there are those that would oppose my desires and seek to take my gold by lies and deception. Who are these miscreants? Are they fiends or just fools? etc, etc"

I wonder what the reaction would be?

 

[jp10558]

I feel like my problem is there usually aren't a lot of other people around to show off to! IDK how I end up in the more deserted locations exactly, but just speechifying to my party and the staff probably doesn't make such an impact. Also I'd seem weirder than I usually do lol.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This all sounds so sleazy. I hope you all know that some TUG members (like me) are hated by Wyndham and don't get invited to the devils' table because they know we know better.

EVIL. Lying, manipulation, bullying, that does not go well with the two of us.

Last timeshare presentation with Shell, the guy was hardselling the Wyndham credit card with so much deceit, I felt like standing up and yelling at the guy. 10X points on all purchases. PLEASE!

 

[paxsarah]

I have on occasion thought about doing a bit of a speech when they keep saying no.

Imagine this while checking in a resort: a large man in a loud Shakespearean actor's voice saying: "Gather close dear friends and hear my tale of woe. I stand here before you in search of a stress free and happy time at (resort name). Yet, there are those that would oppose my desires and seek to take my gold by lies and deception. Who are these miscreants? Are they fiends or just fools? etc, etc"

I wonder what the reaction would be?

 

[HitchHiker71]

I agree Rolltydr! The sales manager was very aggressive and literally would not let us leave until he wrote something on paper and made me sign it, saying that I would return. I have NEVER encountered this at Wyndham! Very disappointing that they are resorting to theses techniques now. Is there a place we can complain about this? This should be unacceptable in my opinion. We are not going tomorrow anyways but I wanted to let folks know that this is what happened. This was at Wyndham Ocean Front in Myrtle Beach!

Yes, the best place to complain is to the state/local real estate commission where the resort is located. This is one of only a handful of complaints that Wyndham actually takes seriously. This website lists all of the state real estate commission data: http://nationalrealestatebrokers.org/StateRealEstateCommission-AllStates.htm

Just call the real estate commission and ask them how/where to submit a formal complaint about the agent. Most timeshare salespeople hold a real estate license. When a complaint is formally filed, Wyndham basically has to take some kind of action and prove that action was taken to resolve the complaint. Unethical behavior is not acceptable for real estate agents, among other types of issues. What resort were you at?

 

[Floridaman76]

At an "owner update" last week at Bonnet Creek, a supposedly "non-salesperson manager, looking out for me and how I can get the most value from my ownership" essentially told me the CWA contracts are only sold by Wyndham for access to predominately locations that nobody wants to go to, purely as a profit generator for the company, and don't have "nearly the value" that a deeded contract has. He also essentially told me if I kept my CWA contracts (I have an 84,000 and a 64,000 points contract) that unless I can successfully give them away to someone else that I will never be able to get rid of them and, further, that my heirs will be required to inherit them and never be able to get rid of them either. He kept showing me in the CWA Trust document where it references "perpetuity" and showing me the dictionary definition of "perpetuity" and asked if I wanted to saddle my heirs with a "lifetime liability" that they would never be able to get rid of.

I did an update at Bonnet Creek in June and for the record, they give this same line of BS to people no matter what you own. I own just deeded and they were trying to get me to buy/convert to Access, lol. It's a tactic I have not seen elsewhere, and it REALLY pissed me off.

I think it must be something that this specific location must be training their people to do.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I did an update at Bonnet Creek in June and for the record, they give this same line of BS to people no matter what you own. I own just deeded and they were trying to get me to buy/convert to Access, lol. It's a tactic I have not seen elsewhere, and it REALLY pissed me off.

I think it must be something that this specific location must be training their people to do.

Just more FOMO - if you own CWA, you need to convert to CWS. If you own CWS, you need to convert to CWA. FOMO - it's always the basic principle for every sales ploy, and it's often tied to "reservation priority" - you need to buy more/buy CWA/CWS/whatever to increase your reservation priority - which is also a lie.

 

[Double U]

the best place to complain is to the state/local real estate commission where the resort is located. This is one of only a handful of complaints that Wyndham actually takes seriously. This website lists all of the state real estate commission data: http://nationalrealestatebrokers.org/StateRealEstateCommission-AllStates.htm

Just call the real estate commission and ask them how/where to submit a formal complaint about the agent. Most timeshare salespeople hold a real estate license. When a complaint is formally filed, Wyndham basically has to take some kind of action and prove that action was taken to resolve the complaint. Unethical behavior is not acceptable for real estate agents, among other types of issues.

Where has this amazing information been housed until now?

 

[FL Guy]

Just more FOMO - if you own CWA, you need to convert to CWS. If you own CWS, you need to convert to CWA. FOMO - it's always the basic principle for every sales ploy, and it's often tied to "reservation priority" - you need to buy more/buy CWA/CWS/whatever to increase your reservation priority - which is also a lie.

It really is frustrating and blatant lying. I don't know the number of times I've been told by sales reps that I MUST own in each and every one of the ownership categories or else you won't be able to even see the availability, let alone book, for that specific category. Yet another rep will tell me I need to consolidate my CWS & CWA contracts into one ownership category contract, which blows up the argument that you have to own in a category to see availability and book that category. They've also told me, because I have multiple smaller points contracts, that I won't be able to see or book a stay that requires more points than a single contract of mine will cover by itself, which I know I can do because I've done it multiple times. I've even combined resale and developer points to book a stay. And yes, I too have been told that if I would only buy more points, I would see a lot more available units to book. Another lie, because I've experienced the web site showing availability, but when I try to book it, I can't because I don't have enough points available to book it. My experience has been, if there is availability of units, they will show as available, ability to book an available unit is dependent upon if you have sufficient points to book it and it's within your booking priority window.