Hey i didnt discount the members nor do i you all paid our bills. and yes plenty of under the table deals, Jim personal candlewood lake house, rich's golf places and breckenridge. all their friends getting free memberships and the best bookings. company leased bentleys. they used every vendor and didnt pay them and made us make excuses for them when the bills went to collections. they missed payrolls numerous times but kept giving themselves raises. and they laughed about members who bought company stock some of you dummies did. in the old days rich k wouldnt take pay to make sure bills got paid but once he got around jimmy t and saw how he operated he started doing the same thing, me me me. you guys always talk about member groups and lawyers but youve never beaten these folks down. you know what happened you said it above do something about it and then supoena the employees the right way to get them to testify. hey the rest will be out of jobs soon so make them a sweetheart deal too and probably will sing like birds.
-
TUG started 32 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!
Read about our 32nd anniversary: Happy 32nd Birthday TUG! -
TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!
All subscribers auto-entered to win all free TUG membership giveaways!
Visit TUG on Youtube! -
TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!
Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars -
Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
-
Now through the end of the year you can join or renew your TUG membership at the lowest price ever offered! Learn More!
-
Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!
Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners! -
Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!
All T-shirt options here!
Recent Destination Club News
- Thread starter TarheelTraveler
- Start date
Hey i didnt discount the members nor do i you all paid our bills. and yes plenty of under the table deals, Jim personal candlewood lake house, rich's golf places and breckenridge. all their friends getting free memberships and the best bookings. company leased bentleys. they used every vendor and didnt pay them and made us make excuses for them when the bills went to collections. they missed payrolls numerous times but kept giving themselves raises. and they laughed about members who bought company stock some of you dummies did. in the old days rich k wouldnt take pay to make sure bills got paid but once he got around jimmy t and saw how he operated he started doing the same thing, me me me. you guys always talk about member groups and lawyers but youve never beaten these folks down. you know what happened you said it above do something about it and then supoena the employees the right way to get them to testify. hey the rest will be out of jobs soon so make them a sweetheart deal too and probably will sing like birds.
Aladdin69
newbie
Now you're talking !! I have been hearing these stories from members, planners, local hosts, and several disgruntled former employees....and even a former girlfriend
of one of the "boys"!!! You are 100% correct...We must "man up", and take these rats to task!! Money is gone, but we can at least attempt to regain some dignity by putting these guys away for a while...and taking away their "toys"!! That goes for Mr Tom McMillen as well and his band of Wall Street thieves!!!! Check out his situation, benefits, pay offs, and you'll see CONSPIRACY...written all over the place!!!1200 members...$500.00 each, would make a nice pay day for some good criminal lawyer to get the ball rolling!!! Depose everyone ....Follow the money!!! We all know something!!
The comp and benefits stuff is fair warning for the rest of us in surviving dc's. Are these guys keeping us afloat to keep milking the members of their cash or are they legitimately putting in LT plan. Looking at executive list at Q, we sure have a lot of guys between the various clubs.
TarheelTraveler
newbie
Good Luxist article from Susan Kime on the UE bankruptcy:
http://www.luxist.com/2010/09/21/another-destination-club-bankruptcy-the-latest-on-crisis-and-op/
I'm actually a little surprised how much info. is on the UE website now about the bankruptcy. At least that's an improvement from how Lusso did things.
http://www.luxist.com/2010/09/21/another-destination-club-bankruptcy-the-latest-on-crisis-and-op/
I'm actually a little surprised how much info. is on the UE website now about the bankruptcy. At least that's an improvement from how Lusso did things.
TarheelTraveler
newbie
ER's Trial Offer
Article on ER's Trial Offer to UE members:
http://destinationclubnews.com/News...s_Trial_Offer_To_Ultimate_Escapes_Members.php
"Available exclusively to Ultimate Escapes members, a one-year limited trial offer has been created, allowing for 10 days of vacation for $14,900. Members are able to make one Advanced Reservation for up to seven of their vacation days with the remaining balance used as a Space Available Reservation. The 10 nights must be used by December 15, 2011.
To not cannibalize availability for existing club members, Exclusive Resorts is only making 100 of these limited trial offers available. Members that do take advantage of this opportunity and enjoy the Exclusive Resorts experience will be able to have 100% of their one-time fee credited towards their membership purchase if they join before September 30, 2011."
Article on ER's Trial Offer to UE members:
http://destinationclubnews.com/News...s_Trial_Offer_To_Ultimate_Escapes_Members.php
"Available exclusively to Ultimate Escapes members, a one-year limited trial offer has been created, allowing for 10 days of vacation for $14,900. Members are able to make one Advanced Reservation for up to seven of their vacation days with the remaining balance used as a Space Available Reservation. The 10 nights must be used by December 15, 2011.
To not cannibalize availability for existing club members, Exclusive Resorts is only making 100 of these limited trial offers available. Members that do take advantage of this opportunity and enjoy the Exclusive Resorts experience will be able to have 100% of their one-time fee credited towards their membership purchase if they join before September 30, 2011."
Unbelievable.
ER's lifeboat is a dues-only plan for 10 days at a 50% markup? The 10-day member plan is just $9,995. Did ER discountinue the "Sponsored Guest" program, because that would even be cheaper? After that, it's join at the published rate (minus the $14,900) or bye-bye.
I was really hoping that ER would sieze this opportunity. I don't think it will have to worry about the 100-member cap taking this offer. I'm starting to think that PE/UE was my first and last destination club.
ER's lifeboat is a dues-only plan for 10 days at a 50% markup? The 10-day member plan is just $9,995. Did ER discountinue the "Sponsored Guest" program, because that would even be cheaper? After that, it's join at the published rate (minus the $14,900) or bye-bye.
I was really hoping that ER would sieze this opportunity. I don't think it will have to worry about the 100-member cap taking this offer. I'm starting to think that PE/UE was my first and last destination club.
Was it a mistake to add 650 club members overnight? Was it a mistake for Q to add 50 Lusso refugees overnight? The thing is, I can't think of a single fellow UE member who wants to jump right back into another non-equity club if it means paying a deposit, even if it means paying just $50k to Q or a deposit minus $15k after a year for ER.
The $14,900 year offer is a joke, because it's just $10k worth of nights -- and that is a lot LESS than what ER spends in member acquisition costs.
We're low-lying fruit and the club offers are still missing.
Kagehitokiri2
newbie
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,009
- Reaction score
- 2
SciFrog, seriously? the mistake was ~$100mm loan.
99% sure ER still has sponsored trips, so... although i guess the point is youre not limited to certain destinations, and can break it down however you want? could see if castello di casole is available or something. for it, rental rates start at 2K euros.
99% sure ER still has sponsored trips, so... although i guess the point is youre not limited to certain destinations, and can break it down however you want? could see if castello di casole is available or something. for it, rental rates start at 2K euros.
Last edited:
Buon Viaggio
TUG Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Messages
- 34
- Reaction score
- 0
The offer seems true to form for ER. They've always been fairly conservative and they let the product speak for itself. Sure, the UE meltdown could be a great opportunity for a club like ER but to come up with an offer that UE members might really jump on but may not be fiscally prudent for the club. ER doesn't need new members to stay on course, contrary to all the posts lately that insist that non-equity clubs must have new members to survive. ER has trimmed expenses and they are living within their means. The dues are now set to achieve break-even on schedule and to survive. I'm sure they would welcome new members from any club but they are thinking long-term survival. Regarding this offer, the price seems somewhat inflated but at least it is applicable to a membership deposit.
Last edited:
I hear ya, but do you think the Q and ER board rooms really think this through. I mean, why make these offers at all? They have to know that they're not going to stick with a crowd of 1200 of the most jaded luxury vacation travel customers.
The gap between what's feasible to offer and what's reasonable to accept is wide. Does that mean that the clubs let 1200 scarred travelers walk?
It would be a first.
Buon Viaggio
TUG Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Messages
- 34
- Reaction score
- 0
It's the dampening effect of this rotten economy. There could be just a handful of UE members who actually land in another club.
NeilGoBlue
newbie
The numbers just don't work without a deposit or enough of a dues markup to compensate for MGMT putting up the equity to buy the house to be able to rent...
ClubsRDead
newbie
That I totally agree with. Which means the Q offer sucked, the ER offer sucks even more (and is probably just using the inventory they're trying to sell) and anything from AK will certainly have more teeth to it, right? Because if they next kick out an "offer" that contemplates no cash per member, then what?
NeilGoBlue
newbie
I certainly wouldn't support it.. And I don't think it's likely.. there is not much access inventory. (the only way it make sense is if there is access inventory) They might try some trial program... but nothing that won't involve a deposit at sometime in the next 18 months.. That's my guess.. but I don't have any inside info...
And, realistically, AK Residence club is not set up to take on 100s of members. AK corporate could probably handle it, but that would take a major shift of resources...
And, realistically, AK Residence club is not set up to take on 100s of members. AK corporate could probably handle it, but that would take a major shift of resources...
ClubsRDead
newbie
That I would agree with. It would seem if you're an AK equity holder there would be direct disadvantages to having a bunch of lesser paying members storm your club. On the flip side, not sure what "shift of resources" means but AK Corp can't just move or allocate dollars from the AKRC, can they, because you all own the club?
Regarding the ER offer, I guess I can't figure out what the appeal would be to pay them $15k for something that I could get for $10k off of the shelf. How is that supposed to excite me as a UE member?
The Q offer, while probably quite unsustainable at least removed the entry to barrier, ie if I under normal circumstances was looking to join Q, then this was a discount. The ER one, I don't know if either party benefits, but that may be why they put it out in the first place.
Regarding the ER offer, I guess I can't figure out what the appeal would be to pay them $15k for something that I could get for $10k off of the shelf. How is that supposed to excite me as a UE member?
The Q offer, while probably quite unsustainable at least removed the entry to barrier, ie if I under normal circumstances was looking to join Q, then this was a discount. The ER one, I don't know if either party benefits, but that may be why they put it out in the first place.
ClubsRDead
newbie
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-ultimate-escapes-bankruptcy-20100921,0,3160855.story
Oh, so big Rich and Jim, you've been "trying to sell the company." It's obvious what your intentions were all along, run up the debt, get a bunch of equity, do an IPO and cash out. But to see it in print just rubs me wrong.
This is a classic story in JT's hometown (that refers to them as "luxury time share") because it captures the essence of the entire problem - you both have been trying to bone us and send us on down the road for some time now.
Not that we'd follow, listen or believe - but somewhat strange you can't at least get a statement out of the company lawyer or CEO that is something like "we're working hard to preserve the business and our members travel," or "find a solution to our financing problems."
You both just start sucking more every single day...
Oh, so big Rich and Jim, you've been "trying to sell the company." It's obvious what your intentions were all along, run up the debt, get a bunch of equity, do an IPO and cash out. But to see it in print just rubs me wrong.
This is a classic story in JT's hometown (that refers to them as "luxury time share") because it captures the essence of the entire problem - you both have been trying to bone us and send us on down the road for some time now.
Not that we'd follow, listen or believe - but somewhat strange you can't at least get a statement out of the company lawyer or CEO that is something like "we're working hard to preserve the business and our members travel," or "find a solution to our financing problems."
You both just start sucking more every single day...
Last edited:
NeilGoBlue
newbie
I was speaking more of 'people' resources. If we add 300 UE members, we would have to shift people assets from corporate over to the residence club. It could be done, but wouldn't be pretty...
I certainly don't expect sweeter offers on the equity side.
It's finally dawning on me that NO club is going to belly up to the bar with the kind of offer to take more than a dozen or so of us. The only way this ends without 1200 members going their separate ways is if an entity outbids CapSource for the club.
New brand (if it's a hospitality company), new leadership, new cost structure that makes sense. Even if Q or ER are the ones to buy UE in bankruptcy and build on the 70 homes, it would probably have to be to let the 3-tier model coast on its own -- apart from teh club (which appears to be exactly what Q was thinking, since last week's offer made it seem as if the 3-tier plan at Q was already going to happen).
It's finally dawning on me that NO club is going to belly up to the bar with the kind of offer to take more than a dozen or so of us. The only way this ends without 1200 members going their separate ways is if an entity outbids CapSource for the club.
New brand (if it's a hospitality company), new leadership, new cost structure that makes sense. Even if Q or ER are the ones to buy UE in bankruptcy and build on the 70 homes, it would probably have to be to let the 3-tier model coast on its own -- apart from teh club (which appears to be exactly what Q was thinking, since last week's offer made it seem as if the 3-tier plan at Q was already going to happen).
ClubsRDead
newbie
Nor should we, right? A true equity offering is going to require a capital commitment. If it doesn't, it will fail.
If anyone outbids Cap Source then you can expect the same fate we face now. No one is that dumb.
Agree, new structure, faces and money. But don't think anyone logical would go down the road of 3-tiers. Too much asset individualization and hard to service in the destinations. The barriers need to be removed between the clubs.
I totally agree about the tiers. Nothing wrong with having a mix of larger and smaller properties at the same locations, and members can reserve what they need for a given trip. Maybe the smaller ones have better availability as the large ones get booked further ahead of time for more significant trips. If necessary, have a variable cleaning fee, or even a variable per night fee in place of a portion of dues to encourage members to reserve the size they need. Or create some currency where bigger/more expensive units cost more credits than smaller/cheaper ones. But make it possible and easy for all members to use all properties.
Unless a club makes us a no-risk offer (which of course means they don't have the capital to buy homes), I cannot see joining any non-equity club ever again.
I don't think the root cause of the UE collapse was the economy. While the economy was a contributing factor, and with a good economy perhaps it wouldn't have collapsed, the underlying problems of the UE collapse were that management didn't have a business plan that they managed to, and made adjustments when needed, and that management was too focused on their own personal rewards and chasing financial upside, rather than building a sustainable business.
At its core, in a non-equity DC, members have a put a lot of money at risk, but the finanical upside belongs to the owners/investors and management. The inherent conflict is far too great. Even in an equity DC with a for-profit, non-member-controlled manager that conflict still exists, but is more measured, especially if the contract with the manager can be terminated by a member board after a certain number of memberships are sold or after a certain period of time.