How does a timeshare save me money?

[shifty1981]

That sounds cool. Does TUG TS search allow to search based on amenity?

Two of our properties offer day-use ... but I don't think it is highly common.

One offers "unlimited day use" of the resort amenities (pools, sauna, fitness center, etc.) -- with the following restriction: On any given visit, your party (self and guests) may not exceed the occupancy of the unit you own. (We own a 1BR and may have only 4 people total visiting the resort at any given time.)

The other offers "unlimited day use" of the resort amenities (pools, golf, equestrian center, etc.) -- with restrictions along the lines of: (a) owners may request no more than 6 guest passes; (b) free golf is for owners only; (c) cart fee is always extra; (d) course may require cart use during periods of high traffic; etc.

 

[DeniseM]

Originally Posted by DeniseM
Perry - Can you please clarify this for me. Let's say I can buy a popular summer week, in a popular resort area, at a stable resort, for $1, and the MF is only $452 a year, it's within 3 hours of my home, and I plan to use it every year. It's also be recently remodeled with no special assessment. Rental are more than my MF. Why shouldn't I buy it now? Please answer specifically about my scenario. (And yes, I really do own this resort.)]

When I recommend folks buy a timeshare it's for 10 years. Right now folks buying timeshares assume that they are getting a good deal and maybe they are right.

I don't recommend folks flip timeshares - not in this climate.

So if someone can put together a 10 year plan, with 10 years of where we have come in the past 3 years then they have more guts than I do.

Call me chicken but I can't see 10 years of bliss ahead of timeshares with the data presented me...

Perry - you did not address my scenario at all....

 

[timeos2]

Stay away from Developer controlled resorts

How do you find out if the developer has outstanding loans attached to it? Is that a required disclosure?

I also guess I am surprised that people don't know about the resale market. But then again I'm also surprised people don't do most their shopping online at a fraction of the cost of the retail stores.

Quite easy. If the resort isn't sold out - or very nearly so - and not yet turned over to owner control (an HOA Board with a majority that are individual owners not affiliated with the Developer) then without a doubt the Developer still has money outstanding on the project. If it has been sold out & the turn over to owners has occurred- they don't have more to sell at that specific resort - then they can't owe money on it as it has to be deeded to the HOA at that point. Number of years since initial construction tells you nothing as some really old resorts still have new phases/sections under development and thus remain under direct Developer control. In some cases for more than 20 years!

I agree with the other poster. Go for an owner controlled, sold out resort to add one layer of protection to your purchase. And remember to buy to use. You are really getting the full court education in this thread!

 

[gmarine]

Perry - you did not address my scenario at all....

Denise, you should remember that Perry's crystal ball has been broken for years and has been consistently wrong. Anyone new to timesharing beware.

 

[wilma]

Denise, you should remember that Perry's crystal ball has been broken for years and has been consistently wrong. Anyone new to timesharing beware.

And his crystal ball for predicting what will happen in 2012 is also broken!

 

[AwayWeGo]

Even A Stopped Clock Is Right Twice A Day.

Perry's crystal ball has been broken for years and has been consistently wrong.

But a foggy crystal ball never shows a clear picture.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[John Cummings]

And his crystal ball for predicting what will happen in 2012 is also broken!

I wouldn't count on him being wrong.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I wouldn't count on him being wrong.

Me, neither. Perry has made some good points.

But should the economy really tank, I wonder what will happen to timeshare resorts all over the world. If people don't want to pay their mortgages, they sure as heck aren't going to pay their maintenance fees for a vacation. It's something to think about.

 

[wilma]

I wouldn't count on him being wrong.

I have no doubt he will be wrong about his 2012 prediction, we still haven't recovered from the 2000-2008 debacle.

 

[John Cummings]

I have no doubt he will be wrong about his 2012 prediction, we still haven't recovered from the 2000-2008 debacle.

Believe what you want in your fantasy land. You may be in for a big shock.

 

[wilma]

Believe what you want in your fantasy land. You may be in for a big shock.

:hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[capital city]

Not that Im a moderator but lets not destroy this great thread with politics

 

[DeniseM]

I went back and looked and I don't really see anything political?

Oh wait - the Presidential election in Nov. 2012? Mentioning it in passing is OK - discussing candidates, parties, platforms, yada yada yada is not.

 

[AFARR]

I agree with the other poster. Go for an owner controlled, sold out resort to add one layer of protection to your purchase. And remember to buy to use. You are really getting the full court education in this thread!

One other thought (I didn't add above)...is to find a resort with a good management record (few Special Assessments or an excellent track record at other resorts if it's a new company)...they are likely to be more fiscally conservative than a place that "has to do" Special Assessments every couple of years.

Some of the Long Timers will likely be able to list a few of the better resort management systems....my weeks (on the OBX) are now (Duck as of the first of the year) both managed by SPM resorts....they seem to have a few good resorts with reasonable MFs.

AFARR

 

[shifty1981]

Quite easy. If the resort isn't sold out - or very nearly so - and not yet turned over to owner control (an HOA Board with a majority that are individual owners not affiliated with the Developer) then without a doubt the Developer still has money outstanding on the project. If it has been sold out & the turn over to owners has occurred- they don't have more to sell at that specific resort - then they can't owe money on it as it has to be deeded to the HOA at that point. Number of years since initial construction tells you nothing as some really old resorts still have new phases/sections under development and thus remain under direct Developer control. In some cases for more than 20 years!

I agree with the other poster. Go for an owner controlled, sold out resort to add one layer of protection to your purchase. And remember to buy to use. You are really getting the full court education in this thread!

Thanks. Yeah, totally learning a ton. Just gotta find a way to summarize for DW. No way she'll absorb this entire thread.

 

[alexadeparis]

The political references are oblique, but they are ruining the neutral tone of the thread.

Moving on. . . . Shifty, have you thought about a biennial timeshare where you get one week every 2 years? That would get you access to II or RCI for cheap getaways and the MF would be less. I would suggest you look at a biennial wyndham points account. They can be had on ebay for very little, and if you are patient, you can find one with free closing too. MF for the biennial are divided by 24 and then billed monthly. Mine is $35 a month, and I just pay it as one of my monthly bills. It's also very cost effective, because the points can be stretched within RCI to get multiple weeks of vacation (see the Wyndham board for more info on this). RCI membership is also included in your Wyndham maintenance fees. Additionally, there's a lot of resorts in their system along the east coast. There is no fee to exchange within the system (but there are sometimes other small fees, again see the wyndham board). Go for either 126,000 or 154,000 biennial. This is just my opinion, but for a young family, I think this would be a good choice for you. You can always buy more points later if your needs change.

 

[shifty1981]

Thanks for the tip.

In an effort to redirect the thread from going against one guy, let's just say as the OP I appreciate his insight and welcome it. I may not take his advice, but having it is helpful regardless. Clearly we all have opinions, some more informed than others, but ultimately neither of us can say with 100% certainty either opinion is accurate.

Someone raised a good point though: If you stop paying your mortgage, they foreclose on you and you could lose your house. Is the same true with Timeshares? what can they do? Obviously you can lose the TS, but for the cheap costs many pay for them, that may not be so bad. Is it as bad on your credit as a foreclosure? Not planning on doing this, just want to know the facts. Remember, I never said $300 was all we could afford. I just said that was the strict cost of hotels for a week for us, often.

One other thought (I didn't add above)...is to find a resort with a good management record (few Special Assessments or an excellent track record at other resorts if it's a new company)...they are likely to be more fiscally conservative than a place that "has to do" Special Assessments every couple of years.

Some of the Long Timers will likely be able to list a few of the better resort management systems....my weeks (on the OBX) are now (Duck as of the first of the year) both managed by SPM resorts....they seem to have a few good resorts with reasonable MFs.

AFARR

 

[geekette]

Thanks. However they only have 1 in new england and we don't ski. Otherwise next closest is Atlantic City and we don't do casinos.

Sounds perfect to me. Go offseason to ski resort, go to AC and don't gamble. Or take up sledding or pro hot tub circuit ; )

I hate crowds and this is exactly the kind of thing I do - offseason is cheap for everything, no lines. some places might be closed. Shoulder seasons are our main travel times, May and October. Just a little offseason.

What do you like to do??

 

[AFARR]

Thanks. Yeah, totally learning a ton. Just gotta find a way to summarize for DW. No way she'll absorb this entire thread.

The most common:
Buy where you'll use.
Points Systems better for exchange.
Buy the best week you can afford (high season), more bedrooms = Better (lock-offs even more so).
Buy a place with reasonable Maintenance Fees.
Buy a resort that is out of Developer Sales.
It won't save you money in the rent, but will give you more pleasure in the use (and will likely save money on food and allow extra people to tag along).
Don't buy weeks specifically to exchange (use points).


One final thought....when I was looking at weeks, I went to RCI (click on the resort description and there's usually a link in the lower left side of the page for the points value), and looked at the resorts with Points values associated with them...it was about the only way I could keep track of what the "best" weeks were for each area.....Interval has a demand/supply grid on their site.
If you can find it, buy a week in the highest demand season then (despite the advice above) with maximum Bedrooms for it's trading power (or higher points value)...and remember the guy with the BEST week pays the same maintenance fees as the guy with the WORST week.

AFARR

 

[shifty1981]

So here's a new set of questions, kind of:

As far as a deal is concerned, do you look for companies listing/selling TS's or direct owners? A lot of the eBay ads for example have very similar ad formats, fonts, disclosures etc for many different properties. While I tend to think they're safer because they appear to do this as a business, I also tend to think perhaps they know how to swindle someone and they charge higher fees. FSBO might actually offer a better deal, but you have to know what to do since it's an amateur exchange. For example I have no idea what closing company to use (who's out there and who's reputable) and I have no idea what costs are and what is negotiable.

All of this applies to renting as well as buying resale. If anyone has laid out somewhere the exact steps/checklist to go through when renting or buying, that'd be a great resource to share if willing. I'm a checklist kind of guy. it helps me make sure I haven't forgotten anything.

 

[DeniseM]

All of this applies to renting as well as buying resale. If anyone has laid out somewhere the exact steps/checklist to go through when renting or buying, that'd be a great resource to share if willing. I'm a checklist kind of guy. it helps me make sure I haven't forgotten anything.

For that info., see the TUG Advice page, linked in the red bar at the top of the page. And the "how to rent your timeshare" article at the top of this forum.

A reputable resale agent can be a great comfort for a first time buyer, but they charge a minimum commission of $1,000, so you will pay quite a bit more buying from an agent. The best prices are on eBay, and you minimize your risk by using a reputable closing company.

 

[shifty1981]

Sounds perfect to me. Go offseason to ski resort, go to AC and don't gamble. Or take up sledding or pro hot tub circuit ; )

I hate crowds and this is exactly the kind of thing I do - offseason is cheap for everything, no lines. some places might be closed. Shoulder seasons are our main travel times, May and October. Just a little offseason.

What do you like to do??

We love the beach, hot tubs, theme parks, outdoor concerts, safe water sports (canoeing, kayaking, snorkling not in ocean), historical tours (like DC), camping, national parks, hiking somewhat, water parks, and now we'll be into things fun for little kids. Here's a semi-hobby of ours: miniature golf. We LOVE finding new fun places to go. Some day I want to find the golf course in the movie Happy Gilmore. I'll get it in that laughing clowns mouth! I've recently taken up golf and my wife and I like to play tennis too. We went skiing once and love it, but haven't in years for some reason, though I suppose we might pick it up again.

 

[capital city]

I went back and looked and I don't really see anything political?

Oh wait - the Presidential election in Nov. 2012? Mentioning it in passing is OK - discussing candidates, parties, platforms, yada yada yada is not.

PerryM was saying were all in trouble until Obama is out in Nov 2012 and then there were several posts about that. Not a big deal just wanted it to stay on topic as I am learning alot from this thread and have seen plenty good threads go bad on other forums over politics, religion, etc.

 

[timeos2]

History tells a lot

I wouldn't count on him being wrong.

On at least two or three widely touted and fairly recent issues his record for predicting value did not turn out very well. In fact anyone who listened would have taken a financial bath far beyond the already horrible base performance of stock/real estate/timeshare over the past few years. I agree that he has in other cases been right on and even ahead of trends - so overall about the same as most of us who try to figure out a strategy for an unknown future. Even 50% right is pretty good most of the time.

Blanket statements covering too broad a range of possibilities or for big dollar amounts with equally big potential pay backs (thus huge risks of the opposite) tend to be far less accurate than those more limited in scope, carefully researched and for fewer dollars upfront. Anyone reading these current guesses may want to go back and review those past misses and then decide for themselves if the latest tips are based on facts or assumptions. While the word today seems to be "hold on to your money" not that long ago it was "spend it all - you can't miss!" Certainly a safer choice financially touted today, but maybe still not the best one.

 

[AFARR]

So here's a new set of questions, kind of:

As far as a deal is concerned, do you look for companies listing/selling TS's or direct owners? A lot of the eBay ads for example have very similar ad formats, fonts, disclosures etc for many different properties. While I tend to think they're safer because they appear to do this as a business, I also tend to think perhaps they know how to swindle someone and they charge higher fees. FSBO might actually offer a better deal, but you have to know what to do since it's an amateur exchange. For example I have no idea what closing company to use (who's out there and who's reputable) and I have no idea what costs are and what is negotiable.

All of this applies to renting as well as buying resale. If anyone has laid out somewhere the exact steps/checklist to go through when renting or buying, that'd be a great resource to share if willing. I'm a checklist kind of guy. it helps me make sure I haven't forgotten anything.

Bought both of my weeks from one seller.....I paid $300 for one wk, $2.50 for the other (Both had closing costs and the 2010 MFs included in the auction)...the last week (pending) was $1 with no closing (paid by the seller), and I pay the RCI points transfer fee (different seller this time).

Haven't done Rentals yet, so I can't speak to that....but the individuals selling seem to want more than I paid through the reseller on ebay (an identical week to my most recent is $2k here on TUG..same week, same type of unit, different building). I watched a good (or excellent) week on the OBX...Barrier Island Kitty Hawk 4th of July week go for $1700 (+ MFs and closing)...I believe it was a 3 BR....RCI valued it at 95,000 points (MFs were about $600). The underlying week was excellent (the only exception is that the resort isn't on the beach, but has it's own parking there...about 1/4 mile away)...it's still in developer sales, but 95k points for a comparatively low MF is a GREAT deal. Same seller I got my weeks from. I think the resellers have it down pretty well (some of their descriptions are off a bit..so do your own due diligence). Private parties may be willing to (as Perry mentioned) pay closing, pay 2010 MFs, etc....however, if they had a prime week..they'd probably be renting it out and paying the MFs from that.

AFARR