How does a timeshare save me money?

[shifty1981]

I'm in IT. I'm used to being bombarded with acronyms.

That being said, I don't know CMV. Country Music Videos??

Bruce - I am impressed! You are obviously an expert at using your CMV ownership, but I wouldn't recommend that a rookie start off with such a complicated strategy. Especially when they initially were looking for a MF of $300. I think the OP should start out with a simpler, more straight-forward plan that doesn't require renting multiple weeks, or a high MF.

Also, for the OP, you might want to clarify exactly what you own, since they won't know the acronyms.

 

[rhonda]

CMV, in this context: Christmas Mountain Village

 

[l2trade]

All good advice.

Except I'm curious how some people say now is the time to buy and later will be the time to buy.

In any market, it is difficult to pick the top or bottom until after that time has passed. What I can tell you is that I have never seen resale prices lower than they are today. There are high quality resorts available right now for next to nothing. Do your research to avoid buying a lemon. The real ownership costs will be annual MF. MF will be the same expenses for all owners, regardless when or how (retail vs resale) they bought.

If a timeshare ownership is right for you, then I believe now is as good a time as any to buy one. I would recommend buying one, only one deed, the right one for you based on your analysis of all the advice given alongside your personal situation. Membership in the clubs (II/RCI) will offer plenty of opportunities to supplement your ownership/exchanges with cheap getaways. Yes, the economy sucks and life is short. If you can afford to do so without debt or financial stress, the time to enjoy fabulous vacations and memorable experiences with family is now, timeshare or not. If ownership feels like a stressful financial stretch, then wait until the time is right and find alternatives like the Priceline strategies you mentioned. My family is always thinking about and looking forward to our next timeshare vacation. Before that, we loved Priceline and still occasionally pick up a cheap hotel night now and again. Right now, timeshares really work well for us. Our only regret is that we loved timesharing so much that we bought more weeks and made a larger commitment to ownership than we needed to.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I agree with Denise. I don't know how prices could get any lower. The problem with buying, as someone already said, is you are probably going to be stuck with it, because you won't be able to sell whatever you buy at any price, even what you paid for it.

This keeps me from going crazy (buying more) right now, because I have at least six weeks I need to sell. Rick appreciates my timeshare knowledge, but he doesn't appreciate the number of weeks we now own. We try to rent every one of them, some for just our cost, then the ones we don't rent, we deposit at about 62 days out. II penalizes for <60 days, so we deposit in time enough for the deposit to be verified.

I suggest not buying anything until you know exactly what you want. Everything is cheap right now.

 

[vacationtime1]

In any market, it is difficult to pick the top or bottom until after that time has passed. What I can tell you is that I have never seen resale prices lower than they are today. There are high quality resorts available right now for next to nothing. Do your research to avoid buying a lemon. The real ownership costs will be annual MF. MF will be the same expenses for all owners, regardless when or how (retail vs resale) they bought.

If a timeshare ownership is right for you, then I believe now is as good a time as any to buy one. I would recommend buying one, only one deed, the right one for you based on your analysis of all the advice given alongside your personal situation. Membership in the clubs (II/RCI) will offer plenty of opportunities to supplement your ownership/exchanges with cheap getaways. Yes, the economy sucks and life is short. If you can afford to do so without debt or financial stress, the time to enjoy fabulous vacations and memorable experiences with family is now, timeshare or not. If ownership feels like a stressful financial stretch, then wait until the time is right and find alternatives like the Priceline strategies you mentioned. My family is always thinking about and looking forward to our next timeshare vacation. Before that, we loved Priceline and still occasionally pick up a cheap hotel night now and again. Right now, timeshares really work well for us. Our only regret is that we loved timesharing so much that we bought more weeks and made a larger commitment to ownership than we needed to.

This is very sound advice -- each sentence is significant.

The only thing I would add is that if you decide that this is the right time for you to buy, buy something flexible enough to work for you as your needs change with a growing family.

Think location (long flights are tough with kids). Lockoffs and point systems permit you to use no more space than you need -- preserving the remainder for more vacations later.

 

[PerryM]

Are we there yet???

No one really "knows" but those of us who have been owners for several years know from experience that prices are at an all time low right now. Has anyone except PerryM said don't buy now? I would be more concerned with your own financial situation. I would not buy a timeshare unless I was very financially secure. If you have credit card debt, or you struggle to make your payments every month - don't do it.

The above chart is my reason to warn folks from buying a timeshare right now.

If you believe that the worst is over, things are turning around, well then buy real estate and a boat load of timeshares.

Personally, the 24% loss in real estate was caused by things that have not gone away and I believe have just gotten worse. I look at that chart and the reasons why we are here, the rest of the world, and have to come to the conclusion that there is no way in hell that I'm buying even the most juicy timeshare deals out there.

Everyone has to look at the above chart and do some forecasting to bolster their decisions in real estate.

 

[DeniseM]

Perry - I understand what you are saying about real estate, but not how it applies to timeshares. If I am financially stable, and I can buy a timeshare for $1, with low maintenance fees, at a reputable resort, within 300 miles of my home, why should I wait?

I know that you have a lot of real estate and TS investments that must be suffering right now, but in this case, we are advising a new member about buying their first TS for their personal use. Isn't that a completely different scenario?

 

[rickandcindy23]

The real estate market is different from timeshare. Aren't you the first to warn that a timeshare is not an investment?

Besides, home values decreased in some states significantly, while other states suffered very little drop. This is too general.

 

[PerryM]

Look out below......

Perry - I understand what you are saying about real estate, but not how it applies to timeshares. If I am financially stable, and I can buy a timeshare for $1, with low maintenance fees, at a reputable resort, within 300 miles of my home, why should I wait?

I know that you have a lot of real estate and TS investments that must be suffering right now, but in this case, we are advising a new member about buying their first TS for their personal use. Isn't that a completely different scenario?

As and engineer I always try to look at quantifiable data points to do some forecasting. I have a forecasting method that can't forecast tops and bottoms of stocks or real estate - I am not forecasting a bottoming out of the real estate market but more of the same gut wrenching downdraft.

This is my advice - don't buy a timeshare now, under any circumstances, nor sell timeshares you own.

I simply believe that renting is far, far, superior to owning a timeshare right now - everywhere I look I see this. VRBO, RCI, II, Craig's List, you name it all have rents at bargain prices.

At some point this will change - timeshare ownership will make more sense than renting. Everything cycles and what was true 1 year ago means little today. Buying a timeshare can be simple as an impulse buy or as complex as an in-depth analysis I always do.

I'm just sharing what I tell folks who I bump into all the time who know I'm into timeshares - "Don't buy a timeshare right now - buy gold instead".

But put as much emphasis in my opinions as you paid for them...

 

[PerryM]

Bud Light anyone?

The real estate market is different from timeshare. Aren't you the first to warn that a timeshare is not an investment?

Besides, home values decreased in some states significantly, while other states suffered very little drop. This is too general.

The price of a home is very very easy to determine - spend $400 and get an independent appraisal and you have the answer.

Timeshares are totally different - the current sales price, asked by the developer, is something a marketing guy cooked up over a drink the night before.

Timeshares should have had a HUGE correction by now - that pent up correction is still there and will happen at some point. I don't follow many developers but Marriott was discounting their sales prices 20% for a while - this is just a stop gap measure since permanently reducing the price of a timeshare, by the developer, is something that would be catastrophic.

In the world of timeshares, the price increase, each Friday, was phony to begin with and thus all this phony pricing will come crashing down at some point.

I've told my experiences in the rare coin market of 20+ years ago - when the internet hit and folks could easily share photos and independent grading companies came into vogue prices crashed 90% over night.

I see many parallels with that phony market and the phony market cooked up by salesreps sharing a beer.

 

[geekette]

1. I thought there were TS's where you could exchange internally and pay no extra fee? Or is that just when you exchange to a different week at the same resort?

Bluegreen is one such system. I think there are now 60 resorts? Points with priority on your owned week. Pay your annual fees, use your points at any of the resorts, no extra fees, even if a guest goes instead of owner.

bluegreenonline.com

generally consistent quality but not 5* some resorts shine more than others

I generally consider my Bluegreen ownership to be best of both worlds - use it like points or when it comes time to want to go out of system, determine how many points I want to use to book a week for deposit. Can use any exchange company that will accept the specific resort. this allows me to have more control over my trading power.

 

[l2trade]

The above chart is my reason to warn folks from buying a timeshare right now.

If you believe that the worst is over, things are turning around, well then buy real estate and a boat load of timeshares.

Personally, the 24% loss in real estate was caused by things that have not gone away and I believe have just gotten worse. I look at that chart and the reasons why we are here, the rest of the world, and have to come to the conclusion that there is no way in hell that I'm buying even the most juicy timeshare deals out there.

Everyone has to look at the above chart and do some forecasting to bolster their decisions in real estate.

I share your concerns about the economy and real estate. There are global economic issues, of which real estate debt is a major factor, which will play out for years, perhaps decades even. Yes, things can get much worse in real estate, stock market, commodities and fiat currencies.

However, there is a big difference between buying something as an investment and buying something for use. People need to live (food, clothing & shelter). I will pay any price to eat. If I didn't already own a house to live in, I would be happy to buy one now. We all buy cars when we need them, even though depreciation is a given.

Sure, I'm not buying any new timeshares right now. It is NOT an investment for me. Likewise, I'm also not dumping what I own either (even though I've said I own too much). I do not need to do that. And yes, I would be happy buy a timeshare all over again if I didn't own one already. If one can afford the commitment of owning a timeshare, why not buy one to use? Only the OP knows his personal financial situation and whether or not it is prudent to allocate his money in this way at this time. It is easy to say don't buy or sell during times of crisis when you and I will continue to enjoy, year after year, the vacations we own. Yes, there are rental bargains to be found right now. Renting is a good way to tryout timesharing and see if you get hooked. That said, I still feel like I am getting the very best deal for my personal financial situation as an owner, member and II getaway renter. I am happy that I don't need to deal with the hassles of renting from private party. I also would not want to deal with the hassles of buying real estate as an investment. Of course, YMMV...

 

[ace2000]

It's all supply and demand... currently, there's a large supply of resale timeshares. A major portion is from the PCC's. You gotta love it as a buyer, but definitely not as a seller...

The market has determined that having the ability to rent at (insert your resort name here) for (insert your annual maint fees here) is worth (insert the current resale pricing for your ownership unit).

Is something in the future going to change the equation? Anything that will influence maintenance fees, the ability to transfer ownership, rules or regulations? If not, then I don't see the equation changing at any point in the future.

Yes, the overall economy is a factor, but it's a factor because more and more people are ditching their ownerships.

It's supply and demand, and the 'value' that people feel that ownership is worth. If I only had to pay $200 in annul maintenance fees, don't you think my timeshare week would be worth a lot more money on the resale market? Since in reality, I have to pay $700 in annual maintenance fees, why would anyone buy it? Hence, my timeshare may pull in a dollar bid on eBay if I'm VERY lucky... I don't see anything on the horizon changing the whole equation.

 

[geekette]

Perry - I understand what you are saying about real estate, but not how it applies to timeshares. If I am financially stable, and I can buy a timeshare for $1, with low maintenance fees, at a reputable resort, within 300 miles of my home, why should I wait?

I know that you have a lot of real estate and TS investments that must be suffering right now, but in this case, we are advising a new member about buying their first TS for their personal use. Isn't that a completely different scenario?

Yep, different animal.

regardless of viewpoint, I think most of us would be united in the opinion that you should do plenty of research first. it would be far better to take your time and buy a cheap ts that will suit you really well than to speed things along and take on an anvil you'll never be able to jettison.

I'm a points system advocate but have never warmed to RCI Points.

 

[shifty1981]

At some point I'll sign up with TUG, start reading reviews and start a thread about people's favorite New England TS.

In the mean time, can you explain your "Timbers" comment? I didn't follow what you were saying?

Thanks Karen, but some of my friends who are far smarter than I am do better than I do. It is not that complicated but takes some effort. But for a retired person like myself it is a hobby-addiction- job that I can work at while on vacation and make a few pennies.

But we all used to do better with RCI Points before all of the changes the past 5 years in regards to Points Partners as no more Disney Hopper tickets at about 20% of face value or about 1/2 or more off on the more exspensive airfares to Mexico, etc during prime times.

But the best advice the OP has got is to study before jumping in and maybe try some rentals and do not buy anything for the next 6 months and buy were you want to go within one days drive of home as airfare costs for a young family of 3 or 4 is costly.

IMHO lso try to pick a resort that will meet a lot of the entertainment needs at the resort to $ave $$$

Least I forget on our Timbers for $50 per reservation with no exchange fee we get free golf and ski lift ticket at our home resort. That price of $7.15 per day for a sleep 6 with screened in porch, Jennaire Grill IMHO sure beats a $300 dollar a week hotel or motel sleep 2 unit.

I think many could post how How does a timeshare save me money.


Bruce

 

[shifty1981]

Right now DW is more apt to travel alone while I am looking to eventually involve our friends and family. Not just to save money if we share costs, but to become closer than we can when we're sharing 1 bathroom at our house and when our house doesn't have the amenities a TS has. To me, sharing costs with family and friends is where the real savings will come into play. That being said I like the idea of giving it away from time to time for someon who just needs a break in life.

The true savings for us is in getaway purchases. We have stayed 37 nights in II getaways for an average nightly rate of $56.

We have owned one timeshare since 2007 and bought another in 2009. Both resale. If I analyze our owned weeks we have stayed or will soon stay 80 nights. Our average nightly cost is $135 not including the our initial purchase. Adding in the purchase prices and our nightly rate jumps to $239.

So it isn't really about saving money. We could have stayed at hotels for less. However we often get a 2BR for those prices and travel as a group of four. The extra room is worth the extra cost.

 

[PerryM]

The ghost of Christmas past....

It's all supply and demand... currently, there's a large supply of resale timeshares. A major portion is from the PCC's. You gotta love it as a buyer, but definitely not as a seller...

The market has determined that having the ability to rent at (insert your resort name here) for (insert your annual maint fees here) is worth (insert the current resale pricing for your ownership unit).

Is something in the future going to change the equation? Anything that will influence maintenance fees, the ability to transfer ownership, rules or regulations? If not, then I don't see the equation changing at any point in the future.

Yes, the overall economy is a factor, but it's a factor because more and more people are ditching their ownerships.

It's supply and demand, and the 'value' that people feel that ownership is worth. If I only had to pay $200 in annul maintenance fees, don't you think my timeshare week would be worth a lot more money on the resale market? Since in reality, I have to pay $700 in annual maintenance fees, why would anyone buy it? Hence, my timeshare may pull in a dollar bid on eBay if I'm VERY lucky... I don't see anything on the horizon changing the whole equation.

When folks don't care to view their timeshare as an investment then $1 timeshares on eBay should be no big deal.

All the fellow owners NOT viewing their ownership of a 1/52 of a condo have now become a force to be reckoned with - they simply want out of the monthly payments and MFs and gleefully list their ownership for sale for $1.

I sure hope folks don't believe that $1 is as cheap as they will go to unload their non-investment in that timeshare that's killing them.

To me a timeshare is an investment and like other investments I want to make it profitable to own it versus renting it. That's my goal and over time I plan to do just that.

So all those who see $1 timeshares and want to own them please be careful in what you wish for - it might just become a nightmare with the unknown outcome our country is headed down right now. That $1 timeshare comes full of ownership strings attached to it.

 

[shifty1981]

But please answer me this: is it possible (and somewhat common) for a TS to allow owners to use the facilities even when they're not staying there? Now that'd be great! Golf is expensive!

Its working with the RCI points and weeks exchange system including the PFD. Many resorts have what is call "Day Usage" rights for owners which is one of the amenties I verified with the resort directly before purchasing.

With RCI points you can use them to purchase goods and services from "partners" of RCI. Disney used to be a partner allowing the purchase of Disney tickets which is no longer available. However, you still can use points to procure airline tickets and with some of the timeshares I own I can reserve multiple weeks a year. Using RCI's Points for Deposit option you can accumulate points by depositing weeks from resorts that aren't "Points" resorts.

Its all about understanding how timeshares work and getting the most out of them. I still consider myself an amatuer compared to others in Tug who definately know how to work within the Timeshare industry.

 

[shifty1981]

Wow. I guess you're suggesting in the next few years even better deals will be there for us?

Lets just say I see no relief to what ails the USA until November 2012 at the earliest.

I don't recommend ANY American taking on ANY more debt or getting entangled in the battle of political forces replacing free market forces - just hunker down, buy gold, and wait this thing out; it's only started.

If someone has money burning a hole in their pocket to buy a timeshare you would be better served just buying US Gold Coins from the US Mint when you can.

The only Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum you should be interested in is actual metal and not seasons cooked up by timeshare developers.

If you own a timeshare then hold on to it, become better educated, and maximize their usage. Renting a timeshare makes far more sense right now than buying and taking on a lifetime of MFs for your family and their family.

If this sounds gloomy, then I've failed to present just how bad it really will become...

 

[Kona Lovers]

How does a timeshare save me money?


It doesn't all the time.

 

[geekette]

Timbers is one of the sections in CMV in Wisc Dells. It's a Bluegreen resort.

Just keep in mind that Bruce has spent a long time perfecting his hobby (and Perfect It he has). He'd be glad to share details by phone, but I agree with Denise that this is not really a strategy for newbies.

and, you live far enuf away from CMV that having mult weeks possible on one deed is simply not that useful to you unless you started up a rental business. That would compete with Bruce!

I'd say, make a list of where you want to go in the next 5-10 years. rough time period (season or targeted months/year) and how many people are you taking along (big ole guesstimation).

one system may be a better overall fit for you than another based on just that.

a zillion other factors, of course, but teh point of vacationing is to go somewhere, so, a la MS old slogan, Where do you want to go today?

 

[shifty1981]

Ahhh. Sounds much more interesting to me now

CMV, in this context: Christmas Mountain Village

 

[DeniseM]

But please answer me this: is it possible (and somewhat common) for a TS to allow owners to use the facilities even when they're not staying there? Now that'd be great! Golf is expensive!

There are timeshares that include golf, but they are rare.

 

[AFARR]

The price of a home is very very easy to determine - spend $400 and get an independent appraisal and you have the answer.

Timeshares are totally different - the current sales price, asked by the developer, is something a marketing guy cooked up over a drink the night before.

Timeshares should have had a HUGE correction by now - that pent up correction is still there and will happen at some point. I don't follow many developers but Marriott was discounting their sales prices 20% for a while - this is just a stop gap measure since permanently reducing the price of a timeshare, by the developer, is something that would be catastrophic.

In the world of timeshares, the price increase, each Friday, was phony to begin with and thus all this phony pricing will come crashing down at some point.

I've told my experiences in the rare coin market of 20+ years ago - when the internet hit and folks could easily share photos and independent grading companies came into vogue prices crashed 90% over night.

I see many parallels with that phony market and the phony market cooked up by salesreps sharing a beer.

I tend to agree...not only coins, but any "collectible" that had an artificially inflated value and too little verifiable information on resales, rarity, etc (remember "Beanie Babies")? Timeshares are at least fixed real estate. If Developers can't sell them anymore (i.e...the "Developer Pricing" becomes as widely known as "Suggested Retail Pricing" and everyone then knows they can get it for 20%, 10% or even less)..then the value will go up on the existing resorts (declining supply/increasing demand). Not a bad time to buy now if you are going to USE them.

And, I also agree on the Housing dropping for another year or two....a lot of the HAMP (mortgage bailout) homes are STILL going under...not a surprise as people bought WAY more than they could afford (even with the "reduced" rates of the bailout)...they'll hit over the next few months. Commercial mortgages are starting to crumble (lots of companies looking to just walk away from what they've bought due to the reduction in value). However, a resort out of Developer hands (and in HOA with no mortgage debt) is a relatively safe place to purchase. I'd be REAL careful buying a place where the developer has outstanding loans. Find places that are easy commute from major Metro areas (within 4 to 6 hr drive)...as people will still be able to take vacations there...vs. flying/renting in some exotic locale (and paying $$$ to do it). Those are the Gold and Silver of the vacation world right now. New Developer sales are the Drachma of the TS world.

AFARR

 

[geekette]

But please answer me this: is it possible (and somewhat common) for a TS to allow owners to use the facilities even when they're not staying there? Now that'd be great! Golf is expensive!

YES. Day use is not uncommon. I think the entire Silverleaf chain was developed as mostly a country club for nearby owners.

Problem is living near enuf to take advantage.