Starwood Has Won [Unilateral II Changes] [merged]

[gmarine]

I just had a long conversation with an II supervisor who I have previously dealt with.

He explained it like this. If you want to make an exchange, you go ahead and make the exchange using the listed unit in your II account. You dont need to use a unit that has a specific year listed. Your trading power is based on the season you own and no specific unit/date is listed. For example, it will show up as Gold Plus, without a specific date.

Depositing a unit works like this according to the rep. You can deposit through II but you still have to call Starwood telling them you want to make the deposit. Starwood gives you a generic unit to use for the deposit but does not take the unit from your account until a confirmation is made. The deposit is not for a specific week/unit. The week isnt given to II until you use an exchange from that deposit.

I explained that I dont understand how II no longer is going to differentiate between weeks in the same season. For example Gold Plus at SDO is weeks 1-52 and they should trade drastically different. The rep explained that it is going to be similar to the way Worldmark works with the exception of the points.
He says overall he sees it as a plus for owners. I'm not sure what I think yet. If our trading power isnt affected I dont think I'm going to have a problem with it but thats a big if. I'm still calling Starwood on Monday to clarify everything and I will post what I'm told.

 

[vacationtime1]

Since we are all speculating . . .

The odd thing, to my mind, is II is going to get a bunch of bum weeks from us as depositors, when they had prime inventory from us before. They don't find a July 4th week to be more exchangeable, therefore more money for them, than a week in early March, or later in October for SBP?

Although Starwood has historically played with the right of a non-SVN unit owner to deposit a non-SVN week, they needed help to pull off this new caper -- and I think the real culprit is I.I. Why is that?

First, Starwood has had a very cozy relationship with I.I.; think about the retroactive reassignment of units bulk banked by Starwood over the years.

Next, there is absolutely nothing preventing I.I. from accepting non-SVN reservations; other exchange companies do.

Finally, as rickandcindy point out above, this is new arrangement may not be in I.I.'s interest; they will end up with only "average" deposits rather than the mix of the previous hand-selected deposits by knowledgeable owners and the previous bulk deposits by Starwood.

My theory: I.I. is running scared. Disney just moved to RCI. Marriott is (maybe) moving to an internal trading system. Starwood already has a relationship with RCI on its older resorts which could presumably be expanded. If Starwood also switched its primary external trading company, I.I. would lose much of its remaining high-end exchange resorts, and losing Disney, Marriott, and Starwood within a year or two would be devasting.

So -- and this is total speculation -- Starwood has enough bargaining power with I.I. at this particular point in time that it can force I.I. not to accept "unauthorized" deposits, even if the owner has the legal right to use, rent, or deposit a reserved use week. What Starwood previously tried to accomplish by misinformation to the owners of the units ("we will deposit a week for you"), it will accomplish by forcing a change in its relationship with I.I. instead.

 

[Fredm]

Starwood has Blinked

I actually think this is very good news for owners.
No question, Starwood could have handled the roll out better.
But, more on this later.

Bear with me on this. Just my opinion.

I think Starwood has found itself in a tar pit because of its assumptive approach to non-SVN owner deposits. The vocal 1% are creating a highly disproportionate administrative, management, and overhead problem.
Owner relations is suffering because of it, and it has become a hot potato.

I can tell you that I.I. is not having any fun with it either.
Their role is supposed to be passive. Simply process deposits per the affiliation agreement with Starwood.
They likely have other issues with Starwood's bulk deposit approach.
Too much inconsistency.

This change surely is intended to apply to SVN member deposits only (it can't be otherwise). If so, the changes as they are unfolding are very good news for most owners.

Picking it apart, this is the way I see it:

SVN members never had it good. Assignment of bulk deposit inventory almost always hurt those with the best shares. It also created a huge variable in the exchange time window.
Selecting June 30 as the inventory deposit date standardizes and increases the window for most. Coding the deposit also goes a long way to insure that the assigned deposit approximates the clout of what is actually owned.
These are huge improvements for SVN members, who never had any say in the matter to begin with.
I will add that I.I. has to be pleased with a cleaner and more equitable basis on which to allocate trade value.

For non-SVN owners, the title of this thread should not be "Starwood has Won". It should be "Starwood has Blinked".

Ever done something you wish were done differently?

To place the question in the context of Starwood's perspective, their view has been the entire owner base. Not the 1% represented here.
I am going to climb out on a limb, and offer an opinion, support for which is only my observation.

The ongoing management of deposits by exception can be attributed to either:

- Ineptitude . I don't think so. OR,
- An attempt to subvert Resort Governing Documents. That would be ineptitude to the max. OR,

- Control of owner inventory to maximize its own gain. Sure. It is an assumptive approach. And one Starwood has finally begun to back away from.
It also explains why the antiquated, people intensive, reservation system remains. Starwood wants control of the inventory it surrenders. But, I digress...

A bulk deposit approach applied to non-SVN owners was simple, but in the end not worth the overhead, owner relations problems, and I.I. administration, of managing by exception.

There are two otherwise legitimate, commonly accepted, methods of depositing a owner interest to the I.I. bank. Both are outlined in my I.I. Primer for Starwood owners.
1). Make two calls. One to make a reservation. The second to I.I. to deposit the reserved week. OR,
2) Make one call to (Starwood) for the purpose of depositing the use-week for exchange. In this instance the week must correspond to the resort and season owned. The vast majority of all timeshare owners who deposit do so this way.

Yes, 1) above gives the owner who knows how to pick it the best advantage, but my point is that 2) above is legitimate. Either is a vast improvement over the current mess.

I would not be at all surprised to see a standardization which employs 2) above for non-SVN owners.

In either case, Starwood blinked. All owners have a more equitable system of deposit.

This goes a long way to explaining why Starwood has not formally put its latest implementation in writing. Would you want to explain why the hand was in the cookie jar when replacing the cover?

 

[barndweller]

I think the real culprit is I.I.

I agree. See my post on this thread.

 

[ArtsieAng]

gmarine

If our trading power isnt affected I dont think I'm going to have a problem with it but thats a big if.

I have a feeling that in some cases, trading power will be decreased.....One example.....I am a non-SVN owner. My deeded week at SBP is wk 27, and falls between the time frame of the Palmetto weeks. The Palmetto weeks have been given the "Platinum" status, while my week has been given the "Gold Plus" status.

My deed reads only that I have the right to week 27, without mention of "floating weeks." It is the only info that I have in print on my week.

I have been able to reserve that week, and deposit it into II, since I purchased the week without a problem......It now appears that even if I am able to have Starwood deposit my deeded wk # 27, it will no longer have the trading power that wk #27 (Palmetto weeks) should have. Seems it's been down graded a level.

Others may, or may not experience a similar down grade, while some may actually see an improvement in trading power.

 

[ArtsieAng]

I think the real culprit is I.I.

Yup....I too think that II has a hand in this.

 

[Fredm]

I think the real culprit is I.I.

Nah. I.I. implements a system as defined by the customer. If I.I. has issues they are negotiated in the affiliation agreement. But the customer defines the implementation of its system to I.I., not the other way around.

 

[gmarine]

The more I think about this the more I dont like it. Regardless of how the trading power is or how the change works, its my week and I want the right to do as I wish with it. If I make a reservation for a specific week, I should be able to deposit that exact week with II.

I will post after I speak to Starwood on Monday. After that I may ask that anyone interested in joining me in a letter to the Starwood CEO contact me.

 

[Pit]

The more I think about this the more I dont like it. Regardless of how the trading power is or how the change works, its my week and I want the right to do as I wish with it. If I make a reservation for a specific week, I should be able to deposit that exact week with II.

I will post after I speak to Starwood on Monday. After that I may ask that anyone interested in joining me in a letter to the Starwood CEO contact me.

I agree with you completely. Starwood has no legal standing to make deposit substitutions for reserved, non-SVN weeks.

Starwood is hired to administer reservations, clean the toilets, and take out the trash. They are not paid to interfere with owners' usage. They're acting as if they own the place.

 

[DeniseM]

I will deposit weeks into Trading Places Maui, SFX and HTSE, way before I would deposit to RCI, but we need to know how our deposits to other companies would be affected. If this is just II, then we may be okay with the others.

Starwood does NOT have a contractual agreement with the independent exchange companies, so this should have no effect on depositing with them. When you deposit with an independent, you make a reservation for yourself, and turn it over to the independent company, and they handle it from there - they contact Starwood - you don't have to. I know that SFX is pretty aggressive in dealing with TS's that try to refuse SFX's right to accept a deposit.

 

[DeniseM]

Starwood is hired to administer reservations, clean the toilets, and take out the trash. They are not paid to interfere with owners' usage. They're acting as if they own the place.

I like the way you put this - SO TRUE! :annoyed:

I think we should ALL put this in our signature line! :rofl:

 

[GrayFal]

I have a feeling that in some cases, trading power will be decreased.....One example.....I am a non-SVN owner. My deeded week at SBP is wk 27, and falls between the time frame of the Palmetto weeks. The Palmetto weeks have been given the "Platinum" status, while my week has been given the "Gold Plus" status.

My deed reads only that I have the right to week 27, without mention of "floating weeks." It is the only info that I have in print on my week.

I have been able to reserve that week, and deposit it into II, since I purchased the week without a problem......It now appears that even if I am able to have Starwood deposit my deeded wk # 27, it will no longer have the trading power that wk #27 (Palmetto weeks) should have. Seems it's been down graded a level.

Others may, or may not experience a similar down grade, while some may actually see an improvement in trading power.

The more I think about this the more I don't like it. Regardless of how the trading power is or how the change works, its my week and I want the right to do as I wish with it. If I make a reservation for a specific week, I should be able to deposit that exact week with II.

I will post after I speak to Starwood on Monday. After that I may ask that anyone interested in joining me in a letter to the Starwood CEO contact me.

George, I hope u will take what Angela is saying in post 205 above into consideration - I too will have a 'downgrade' as I own week 26 and 32 and will suddenly have a Gold plus instead of Platinum that owners at the same resort are getting if they are in a different section then me. I was smart enough to purchase 2 deeded summer weeks and now I am being downgraded???

I sold my Platinum 2BR L/O at Sheraton PGA resort and bought at SBP because head to head trade testing - the summer SBP traded MUCH better then March PGA resort and also better then March SDO for both Starwood and non-Starwood weeks ...now, with 'generic' deposits - I am suddenly relegated to level 3 out of 5....how can this be fair or equitable?

If u believe what Starwood says about 'equal trade power' - then they certainly are not going to give everyone the fabulous trade power week 26-34 has at SBP - how could they?

 

[GrayFal]

I agree with you completely. Starwood has no legal standing to make deposit substitutions for reserved, non-SVN weeks.

Starwood is hired to administer reservations, clean the toilets, and take out the trash. They are not paid to interfere with owners' usage. They're acting as if they own the place.

Amen!








too short

 

[barndweller]

Pat

I have a hunch the whole trade power issue has been negated. II has reset trade power and what may have been a strong trade before may no longer hold true. Of course we can't tell since there is no way to check one week against another anymore.

I suspect that the only thing that matters anymore is what "level" or "season" or whatever they call it your unit has been assigned.

I lucked out. My SDI resale purchase is damn good at Platinum Plus. VCC deserves no more than it has been given as Gold Plus. What I am puzzled by is that both see the exact same stuff in search mode. Will that be different if I deposit?

 

[barndweller]

Starwood is hired to administer reservations, clean the toilets, and take out the trash. They are not paid to interfere with owners' usage. They're acting as if they own the place.

Great wording. That should go in every letter of complaint!!!:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

 

[GrayFal]

Pat

I have a hunch the whole trade power issue has been negated. II has reset trade power and what may have been a strong trade before may no longer hold true. Of course we can't tell since there is no way to check one week against another anymore.

I suspect that the only thing that matters anymore is what "level" or "season" or whatever they call it your unit has been assigned.

. What I am puzzled by is that both see the exact same stuff in search mode.

Will that be different if I deposit?

HELLO, just what I was afraid of!

You might have to be the guinea pig that finds out

 

[barndweller]

You might have to be the guinea pig that finds out

NOT ME! SFX here I come....

 

[ArtsieAng]

GrayFal

I too will have a 'downgrade' as I own week 26 and 32 and will suddenly have a Gold plus instead of Platinum that owners at the same resort are getting if they are in a different section then me. I was smart enough to purchase 2 deeded summer weeks and now I am being downgraded???

Starwood is now basically dictating to II what our trading power is.......

 

[Ken555]

There has been a change in my account!

My FIXED SVR week now shows as follows:

Unit: 2BEDSD
Float 2009 (Float)
Available
Note: Contact resort/club to obtain reservation or assignment. 1-888-9869637

Unit: 2BEDSD
Float 2010 (Float)
Available
Note: Contact resort/club to obtain reservation or assignment. 1-888-9869637

Unit: 2BEDSD
Float 2011 (Float)
Available
Note: Contact resort/club to obtain reservation or assignment. 1-888-9869637

My fixed week is now a floating week???

I just checked my non-corporate II account which has my two SVR fixed weeks, once I saw your and Kath's post on this issue. My available unit option has not (yet) changed, and still lists the exact fixed weeks available for deposit.

 

[gmarine]

George, I hope u will take what Angela is saying in post 205 above into consideration - I too will have a 'downgrade' as I own week 26 and 32 and will suddenly have a Gold plus instead of Platinum that owners at the same resort are getting if they are in a different section then me. I was smart enough to purchase 2 deeded summer weeks and now I am being downgraded???

I sold my Platinum 2BR L/O at Sheraton PGA resort and bought at SBP because head to head trade testing - the summer SBP traded MUCH better then March PGA resort and also better then March SDO for both Starwood and non-Starwood weeks ...now, with 'generic' deposits - I am suddenly relegated to level 3 out of 5....how can this be fair or equitable?

If u believe what Starwood says about 'equal trade power' - then they certainly are not going to give everyone the fabulous trade power week 26-34 has at SBP - how could they?

Hopefully you would have higher assigned trade power.The way it was explained to me is that each season will have its own trade power. Thats fine, however week 26 being called Gold Plus should trade the same as a week 26 called Platinum. Regardless of what it is called, its the same week/unit/resort and should trade the same. This is where I have a problem with this new system. All owners within the same season are being lumped together.

Starwood seems to be forgetting that we are OWNERS of deeded weeks and have specific rights with regards to our ownership. They dont get to change the rules/laws regarding real estate. If this turns out bad for owners I have no problem with sending letters/emails/phone calls to every and any entity that has jursisdiction over my deeded resort and organizing others to do the same.

 

[rickandcindy23]

NOT ME! SFX here I come....

Even though I have an upgraded membership to SFX, which I pay for, and have deposited weeks with them, I haven't had that much luck with SFX. I dislike that I cannot see what is available. There is no search function at all, which is how II and RCI were before the internet. This just means we have to take whatever they give us. The power is taken away, and I don't like it. Even when I put a wide range of dates in my search, I don't get offered a thing.. I have been completely unimpressed so far.

We traded a 2 bed July 4th week at Kona Hawaiian Village and finally took a San Franciso week at Powell Place, 1 bedroom, after waiting for any Maui week, 2 bedroom. We have another summer Kona Hawaiian Village week that we deposited, and once again, nothing so far. I will give them another chance or four, because we paid for a five-year membership, but it hasn't been a good value for us.

 

[GrayFal]

Hopefully you would have higher assigned trade power.The way it was explained to me is that each season will have its own trade power. Thats fine, however week 26 being called Gold Plus should trade the same as a week 26 called Platinum. Regardless of what it is called, its the same week/unit/resort and should trade the same. This is where I have a problem with this new system. All owners within the same season are being lumped together.

Starwood seems to be forgetting that we are OWNERS of deeded weeks and have specific rights with regards to our ownership. They don't get to change the rules/laws regarding real estate. If this turns out bad for owners I have no problem with sending letters/emails/phone calls to every and any entity that has jurisdiction over my deeded resort and organizing others to do the same.

No George, I will not be treated the same. Starwood has already DICTATED to II that MY week 26 and 32 is not as good as Palmetto float week 24-35 by assigning my weeks (and Angela's # 27) Gold Plus and Palmetto weeks Platinum.

They are not changing my right to occupy my deeded week or rent it or give it to a friend or an independent company - they are telling II not to accept my deposit 'as is' - but to lump it as a generic, worth-less deposit.

Since I am not a member of the Starwood Vacation Network, I don't believe they have a Right to dictate that to II for MY ownership

 

[gmarine]

No George, I will not be treated the same. Starwood has already DICTATED to II that MY week 26 and 32 is not as good as Palmetto float week 24-35 by assigning my weeks (and Angela's # 27) Gold Plus and Palmetto weeks Platinum.

They are not changing my right to occupy my deeded week or rent it or give it to a friend or an independent company - they are telling II not to accept my deposit 'as is' - but to lump it as a generic, worth-less deposit.

Since I am not a member of the Starwood Vacation Network, I don't believe they have a Right to dictate that to II for MY ownership

Dont worry Pat, we arent going to accept this. They are messing with our ownership rights. I will not accept this. I will post after I speak to Starwood Ex office on Monday. It also may be helpfull to get II involved by contacting the office of Craig Nash, CEO of II. II members made unhappy by Starwood isnt something that II management is going to be happy about.

 

[NJDave]

I have been looking to purchase a Starwood property. However will all of this turmoil with Starwood, and the reservations issue, I am on hold until the dust settles.

I have been thinking about buying a Starwood too. I never bought though because of the concern that Starwood would deposit whatever week they wanted.

 

[mlsmn]

gmarine

you have a PM